Women who are political candidates should speak with soft, quiet voices.

[MineralMan]

They should always modulate their voices to be soothing and maternal. It's unseemly for a woman to raise her voice or use emphatic tones to make her point. Shouting is for men to do.

Extreme

[whatchamacallit]

1. More 'dispassionate' shit stirring?

[MineralMan]

2. Uh, no. Extreme sarcasm.

Perhaps you didn't bother to actually read the thread for comprehension. Or something like that.

[artislife]

17. ^^ this nt

[arcane1]

29. Honestly, what else do they have?

Nothing. This is it

[Fumesucker]

3. If you have to use the saracasm emoji you're doing it wrong

The whole point of effective sarcasm or satire is the "Is it or isn't it?" question, too subtle and a lot of people miss it, too obvious and why bother?

[MineralMan]

5. Gosh. Thanks for the sage advice, Fumesucker.

I'll keep that in mind for future posts. But subtlety was not my goal with this post. Not in any way at all. The was intentional and was meant to be absolutely obvious.

[whatchamacallit]

6. Yeah, what WAS your goal?

[MineralMan]

9. I don't think I'm going to explain it in words

you'd understand. The post stands alone, as it is. Interpretation is up to the reader. I've seen your interpretation. It is an incorrect one. But, you have unlimited tries.

[whatchamacallit]

15. Lol classic MM

[MineralMan]

33. Well, you would know, for sure.

As they say when you walk into a Waffle House, "Morning!"

[cilla4progress]

4. Sometimes candidates just have annoying voices.

This should be an equal opportunity issue. I don't believe Bernie was making a sexist remark towards Hillary at all, and his reputation and dignified approach to this campaign speaks for itself. I am turned off by Hillary alleging it is a sexist comment. I think it makes her look like she is trying to make herself out to be a victim and it does women a disservice, as well as Bernie. This attack is poorly placed and unfair. That is not to say that there aren't men as well as women who think a woman shouldn't shout. I think the criticism should be specific, not universal.

I also believe she should be able to be criticized for her voice, just as any male candidate would. That does not, in itself, make it sexist. In fact, to NOT criticize her (when one finds it annoying) is actually more sexist: objectifying her on the basis of her gender, rather than treating her equally.

My 2 cents -- maybe 1 cent more than it is worth!!

[MineralMan]

7. Hillary Clinton has not said anything about sexism.

Others did that. If I'm wrong, you can link to a statement from her that uses the word.

[cilla4progress]

10. Of course she did!

That is what caused all the hubbub!

I can't link to a statement. I saw her on the tee-vee making a big deal about Bernie's shouting statement at the debate. That "SOME" people think that women shouldn't shout blah blah. The intent and direction was patently clear to anyone who watched the debate or who is current on the news.

[MineralMan]

12. No, she did not. She did not use the word sexism with regard

to any of this. Others did, for whatever reason, but she did not. Again, if you have evidence of the contrary, you're welcome to post a link to it here.

[cilla4progress]

16. She didn't need to use the word.

She said (Bernie's) shouting comment was directed at women. This implies that it was a sexist comment.

I'm not sure where you are going with this?

[Nitram]

25. And Bernie didn't need to say that he was being sexist when he accused Clinton of "shouting".

"Shouting" is an emotional approach to issues that differs from a calm rational approach. An accusation often made by men against women. And in this case, addressed directly at Clinton by Saunders.

CLINTON: I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it's time the entire country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.

Senator Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill. Since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. He also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. I voted against it. I was in the Senate at the same time. It wasn't that complicated to me. It was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. And we need to stand up and say: Enough of that. We're not going to let it continue.

COOPER: ...Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.

SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.

[cilla4progress]

65. How is

"all the shouting in the world" directed at her? I didn't take it that way. And I have been considered more than once as being a loud-mouthed woman!

[Jim Lane]

30. Of course she didn't. I'm surprised that MM or anyone attempts this spin.

An example message: "The Republicans controlling Alabama have implemented a combination of voter ID requirements and closing the motor-vehicle offices, which issue IDs, in every county with 75% or more blacks. They did so with the purpose and the foreseeable actual effect of suppressing the black vote and benefiting whites."

Did I use the word "racist" or "racism"? No, I did not. Did I nevertheless accuse the Republicans of racism? You bet I did.

[MADem]

37. She did? She said "Bernie's shouting comment was directed at women?" I don't think so. nt

[MADem]

36. No--he was making a hypocritical remark. He yells at people all the time... about SHOUTING.

What he really needs to do is take his own doggone advice!! It's like he's the only one who is "allowed" to raise his voice.

Clinton snarked at him about it (she didn't make it a campaign platform plank, she 'joked'--but some people have zero sense of humor), and his supporters responded by ... SHOUTING. And whining. And crying.

It's too rich for words.

When one is in a hole, they really should stop digging.

Salon explains it all: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/hillary_baits_bernie_beautifully_shouting_sexism_and_the_simple_sorry_that_would_make_sanders_look_less_jerky/

[Chitown Kev]

56. Yeah, this is kind of my criticism of his "shouting" remark

Is that Bernie has a tendency to raise or modulate his voice so that it carries a lot. And sometimes it does sound like that he's shouting or even preaching.

[99Forever]

8. Said no one, ever.

[Eric J in MN]

13. Bernie Sanders wasn't being literal.

He said multiple times before the debate that the gun-problem can't be solved by "shouting." He meant extreme statements. Not literal shouting.

[MineralMan]

14. I was not speaking of Bernie Sanders at all.

My post is far more general in nature.

[cilla4progress]

20. Ok then.

I agree that historically and at present there are men and women who believe women shouldn't shout, raise their voices, be assertive, even comment. I have personally experienced that.

My interpretation of the ongoing conversation about shouting as it relates to gun control, Bernie, and Hillary, is that Bernie made a statement that may/may not have been directed at Hillary, but was not necessarily sexist, if so. I think Hillary went on to try to make an issue out of it - that Bernie was being sexist in directing this comment her way - that it was because she is a woman, and he is taking the stance I describe above. I do not believe it was. I don't think Bernie or any candidate should have to be more or less obliging to Hillary due to her gender.

I think this is part of what went down in the Obama/Hillary campaign of 2008. I think it ham strung Hillary, and now she is trying to use the dynamic in her favor.

[whatchamacallit]

22. Yes, very general

Obviously alluding to any of a multiplicity of politicians currently caught up in a fracas over statements regarding shouting.

[frylock]

46. There's so many of them!

[Nitram]

27. He addressed this statement directly to clinton in response tto her stateement on the need

for gun control.

As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.

[Jim Lane]

32. And minutes later he made the same point to O'Malley.

And before the debate he had consistently used the same metaphor -- "shouting" or "raising our voices" -- to refer, not to the volume at which sound issues from a throat, but to the stridency with which people take positions on gun control issues, without regard to the gender of the people so addressed.

[Nitram]

35. Then perhaps it speaks more to his communication skills.

At the very least it was just plain rude rude to respond to Clinton with "I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want..."

[prayin4rain]

42. I agree. I like Bernie and do not think it was sexist. It was rude and

a little condescending.

Also, Hillary did not call Bernie sexist. She has made the fact that she's a woman and the FACT that women have ridiculously been shut out of the oval office for the nation's entire history, a talking point in her campaign. As she should. The exclusion of women from the office of the president is a black stain on our nation's history. When she sees a natural way to bring up the woman thing, she does it, as she should. That's all that happened.

[Jim Lane]

50. I disagree.

Responding to Clinton he referred to shouting, and responding to O'Malley he referred to raising our voices. The issue as to his communication skills is whether a significant number of people -- people other than die-hard Clinton supporters -- would interpret that as sexist. My guess is No.

Was he being rude to either or both of his opponents? To my mind it was a reasonable exchange on all sides, with each of the three presenting his or her position in a civil, rational way. (As an aside, it was miles ahead of the typical Republican debate exchange.) But then, I thought it was obvious that his words referred to the substance of people's statements rather than to the volume at which they speak.

[MADem]

38. And he usually is SHOUTING when he yells at other people to stop SHOUTING.

That's what makes this all so funny.

That, and the screaming sensitivity of people who don't like the hypocrisy of his shouting about shouting pointed out...!

The only one allowed to raise his voice is Senator Sanders, apparently!

[MineralMan]

57. Bernie is a man. Men shout.

Why should he apologize?

[MADem]

62. Heh, heh!!! nt

[MADem]

64. Was he shouting when he said that? nt

[Mike__M]

18. Any Democrat

should keep their voice to a whisper if they ever need to use Zimmerman's phrase "stand my ground," which I heard someone say at that debate.

Certainly any candidates, advisors and supporters who have demonstrated an acute sensitivity to words' hidden meanings would avoid such a phrase.

[Nanjeanne]

19. I don't believe Hillary or her supporters are that oblivious

This is such a bunch of bunk and I have such a hard time believing that Clinton, her surrogates or her supporters are really unable to comprehend simple sentences. This all stems from Bernie saying that people should stop yelling at eachother and listen to eachother when it comes to gun control. It was so obvious that he was talking about both sides in this argument passionately defending their stances and his desire for people to try to listen and to find some common ground. It was so obvious that this had nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and nothing to do with women politicians and nothing to do with women specifically or generally. And to try to turn it into anything else is so bizarre. As a Sanders supporter I am disappointed to see Clinton taking this route. As someone who would vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination - I am amazed that someone who is the front-runner with the backing of the DNC and establishment politicians and media - would resort to something that is so silly and so obviously untrue. I just don't get what she gains from this except to truly alienate a large portion of the people she ultimately needs in the general election - women who support Sanders.

[Nitram]

41. No, Nan, it stems from Sanders responding to Clinton's statement on gun control...

... by saying that shouting won't help. That's rude, to say the least.

CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it's time the entire country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.

COOPER: We're going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.

SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.

[postatomic]

21. Yep

[cilla4progress]

23. What Slate has to say about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251728582

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Political candidates who have often declared opposition to other people's rights because God told

them to have spent years offending others with reckless verbiage and should consider the bread they have been casting upon the waters with such impunity. Once a person spends 17 years insulting my family I really don't give a shit if that person gets offended, they are already offensive.

Sanctity! One man! One woman! Shout! How offensive!

Where is the apology, Hillary?

[jeff47]

26. Hey, remember when you were actually interested in not ripping the party apart?

And made post after post about not making up childish crap just to attack other DUers? That we were all one party that will need to come together after the primary.

Do you actually think you'll be able to go back to that persona, or did you give up on it?

[frylock]

48. This guy is like a screen door. See-through.

[Vattel]

28. Clinton is not an idiot.

She knows that Sanders wasn't suggesting that she should speak more softly.

[MADem]

31. The whining and screeching (and SHOUTING!!!) about this issue is ... hilarious!

Some people are so hyper-sensitive that they can't take any criticism! I agree with those who say Clinton's line is funny as hell, and Sanders is always shouting, and he's also always shouting about OTHER PEOPLE shouting!!!

Maybe he should take his own advice?

A great article on the topic, here:

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/hillary_baits_bernie_beautifully_shouting_sexism_and_the_simple_sorry_that_would_make_sanders_look_less_jerky/

Last week, Hillary Clinton started trotting out a line implying that Bernie Sanders has got a bit of sexism lurking in his subconscious. During the first Democratic debate, Sanders responded to Clinton’s impassioned anti-gun argument by telling her that “all the shouting in the world” won’t fix the issue. Now Clinton, to huge amounts of applause from the women in her audiences, has taken to saying, “Sometimes when a woman speaks out, some people think it’s shouting.”

It’s a funny line, more of a nose-tweak than some kind of heavy accusation of misogyny. Sanders does, after all, shout all the time. Women like the joke because we’ve all dealt with men who, however well-meaning they are, still end up pushing double standards where they’re allowed to raise their voices or be rude, but blanch if women do it. Most of us know that they don’t mean it, but it’s still offensive.

But even though it’s really not a big deal, a lot of folks are acting like Clinton is accusing Sanders of wife-beating. Tuesday morning on MSNBC, Joe Scarborough went all in on the supposed evils of political correctness, blaming jokes like Clinton’s for Donald Trump’s popularity and arguing that she’s acting like “a little sad victim.” William Saletan of Slate was also furious at Clinton, accusing her of “manipulating women and abusing feminist anger for her own advantage.” He has an explanation for why Sanders wasn’t being sexist when he shamed Clinton for raising her voice during the debate, because Sanders tells everyone to keep it down on this gun issue:

During the debate exchange, Sanders answered O’Malley with the same point about “raising our voices.” Sanders has been giving this answer for years. He did it in July, after an O’Malley super PAC ad attacked him (“We have been yelling and screaming at each other about guns for decades,” said Sanders). He did it again in August, after a male surrogate for Clinton attacked him (“I can get beyond the noise and all of these arguments and people shouting at each other”). He did it again in October, after the mass shooting in Roseburg, Oregon (“People on both sides of this issue cannot simply continue shouting at each other”). Sanders gives this answer to everyone.

Okay, so Sanders doesn’t have a sexist double standard, just a Bernie-specific double standard, where he gets to shout but the rest of you should lower your damn voices....

The only one ALLOWED to do any yelling, screeching, shouting, bellowing, voice-raising or finger-pointing is BERNIE. Everyone else had best keep sweet and lower the tone--or else!!!!

The big finish on that article is priceless:

Not helping, dude. Your candidate’s schtick is aggression and hollering is his natural state. Turning around and accusing Clinton of being too aggressive sounds, well, sexist. Clinton handed the Sanders campaign a shovel and they keep digging. If the Sanders campaign becomes this unnerved because Clinton tweaked his nose a little bit, how on earth will they be able to handle the attacks that a Republican candidate is going to dish out?

It resonates because it is true.

[Jim Lane]

40. Here's why this whole disingenuous attack is a mistake for Clinton

First, anyone with a brain understands the concept of metaphor. Sanders often speaks loudly, in the literal sense of the sound that comes from his mouth. In this instance, however, he was speaking figuratively, about the stridency of people on both sides of the gun issue. There was nothing sexist about it because he uses the metaphor as to both men and women.

One of Clinton's biggest vulnerabilities is the widespread perception that she's too political, is untrustworthy, and will say whatever she thinks will help her, regardless of the truth. By implying that Sanders was being sexist, when he wasn't, she only exacerbates that problem, at least among quite a few of the people who aren't totally committed to her (seeing no wrong in anything she does).

She's also distracting voters from an area that she should be emphasizing. One reason for Sanders's surprising rise in the polls is that there are many Democrats who think Clinton is too conservative. Her problem in the primaries is not that people will vote against her because they think a woman can't stand up to Putin; it's the danger that, as the campaign goes on, Democrats who learn more about the candidates' stands on the issues will switch from her to Sanders (or possibly O'Malley) because those Democrats are themselves more progressive than Clinton. (My personal guess is that she'll likely be the nominee, but if she loses, that will be the most probable cause.) Gun control is, AFAIK, the only issue on which she can make any serious claim to be to Sanders's left. With this silly foray into a sexism charge, she's diverting attention away from the substance of his gun control votes, in favor of an accusation (accusation by insinuation but still an accusation) that won't sway many voters.

The analysis you quote is sensibly applied to Sanders on the gun issue in the metaphorical sense. A coherent attack from Clinton would have omitted any mention of gender and said instead something like: "Senator Sanders readily favors all-or-nothing solutions like breaking up big banks, opposing all trade agreements, etc. It's only when it comes to gun control that he suddenly shifts to calling for both sides to listen to each other and be more conciliatory. The pro-gun voters in Vermont made it clear to him that an all-or-nothing approach wouldn't fly, and I just wish he'd apply that lesson in every other issue area."

That, to my mind, would have been a valid criticism of Sanders's record. The innuendo about sexism is just baloney.

[MADem]

44. No--it's not a "mistake for Clinton." She's laughing about it. People like you are writing angry

five paragraph screeds about why it is WRONG for a woman to mention that some crabby old SHOUTING guy told her to stop shouting. The line gets a great big honking (shouting?) ROAR OF APPROVAL from women who are tired of being told to STFU, to lower their voice, to modulate their tone, to keep sweet, to hush, and to let the men do the talking. If you aren't catching that vibe, you need to tune in.

Sanders--and his supporters--do sound 'jerky' (to riff on Salon) when they pound this issue to death. Waaah! She's accusing him of SEXISM! WAAAH! The more you push it, the more he comes off that way. Your 'defense' doesn't help.


And, more to the point, it's so rich--because all Sanders does is SHOUT--while he tells other people to stop shouting. It would make a wonderful YOUTUBE compilation.

Hypocrisy--that's the big take-away, the longer the Sanders team pounds the "offended" drum. The secondary take-away is, since they're crying about SEXISM so much...maybe there's something to that on a subliminal level. Smoke/fire, and all.

[Jim Lane]

49. If Clinton thinks her path to victory is to make phony accusations of sexism, that's her lookout.

Through her SuperPAC she has lots of dark money to hire consultants who, the SuperPAC readily admits, assert the right to coordinate with the campaign even though no other SuperPAC interprets the law that way. Presumably some of those consultants told her that whether this particular attack is baloney doesn't matter, because a lot of women will roar with approval at it, and roars of approval are more important than integrity.

So she gains votes from women who are tired of being told to be quiet AND who see this as an instance of that on Sanders's part. She loses votes from people who believe that she frequently elevates expediency over principle AND who see this as yet another example of her untrustworthiness. Which group is larger neither you nor I will ever know.

It's also possible that this will be a split. She'll have a net gain in votes vis-a-vis Sanders, but a net loss in the general election. If her campaign sees her as the highly likely, indeed inevitable, Democratic nominee, then it would make sense to me for them to be strategizing more for the general. But I'm just a schlub with a keyboard, not a high-priced strategist.

[MADem]

51. There you go again--another long missive whining about sexism.

The more you make the association --Sanders/Sexism--the more you cement it into place.

What Sanders should do is say "I didn't mean it that way, and yeah, I'm the first to yell when I get excited about something," and move on. Boom--finished. But nooooo! Again, Sanders is hoisted upon a petard of his over-anxious, hyper-defensive supporters, eagerly "helping" him by making him seem like a big jerk with their unrelenting--no matter what the objection-- 'defense' of him.

To double and triple down, particularly when he is the LOUDEST SHOUTER on the campaign trail, bar none, who repeatedly tells others to tone it down, like some humorless junior high school assistant principal, is just not working. It's inviting--no...BEGGING for--jokes, snark, teasing, and even more (dare I say it?) hilarity.

[polly7]

52. Nah .... you don't apologize and bow down for something you never did.

It just gives those who need to use the lie more ammunition and publicity.

[MADem]

66. He never said a word about "shouting?" I think it's on video. nt

[Jim Lane]

53. As an aside, why do you keep harping on the length of posts?

I was curious enough to copy the texts into WordPerfect and use its built-in word counter. Your post #31 was 576 words, I responded in #40 with 425 words, and you replied in #44 by denouncing "five paragraph screeds". Your glass house is not appreciably bricked over just because your #44 was seventeen words less than my rejoinder in #49.

What's more important, of course, is that, in all that verbiage, you never even acknowledge, let alone address, the concept of "metaphor" -- which merely formed the heart of my position.

I must go tend to the real world for a while, so you and the other Clinton supporters will have to continue your attempts at persuasion (if that's what they are) without having me to kick around any more. Have a nice day.

[MADem]

68. I am not trying to persuade you. There is no persuading Sanders supporters, I realize that.

I'm just pointing out that the more you defend, the more you make a point out of something that Clinton never said (she never called Sanders a sexist), and the more you keep INSISTING (repeatedly, with long-winded explanations) that Bernie is not a sexist or a shouter (when we know he's the latter, even as he decries it in others), the more your posts come across like "Nothing to see here, move along."

It's optics. It's not just you--it is a crying horde of defenders, and they're not helping their guy.

Doesn't take a pro (which I am not) to spot it, either.

[cilla4progress]

67. I totally agree.

I thought it was unsavory of her to go off on Bernie for being sexist in this comment. He has conducted himself with great dignity and restraint. Though I will vote for her in the end - and I do like many of her positions and even her somewhat - I thought her response: "SOME people think women are shouting..." was transparently political and tone deaf.

[MADem]

72. Where did she call Bernie a sexist? (Hint--she didn't--that is how SANDERS supporters

framed the remarks.)

If you have an issue with comments being framed in a sexist manner, blame the people crying that Hillary objected to being accused of shouting by a guy who never STOPS shouting.

[Vattel]

43. dishonest

[MADem]

45. What's "dishonest?" Mentioning that a guy who shouts all the time likes to tell other people to stop

doing the very thing he does constantly?

[polly7]

34. Your post is sexist.

Trying to make women victims by falsely claiming this kind of *'it is just attention-seeking self-glorification using women who are smart enough to know when they really are being subjugated.

Look in a mirror, because it really is pathetic.

[senz]

39. How dishonest.

Please don't make me lose respect for you.

[riversedge]

47. okydody

got it!

[aspirant]

54. What is truly rude

is someone routinely talking over others.

This has long been a Repub tactic.

[MineralMan]

55. One is either rude or one is not.

Rude does not require a modifier, really. It is or it is not.

[aspirant]

58. What is the meaning of IS?

[Skidmore]

59. You forgot to add that they should

not have any personal aspirations or ambitions or exhibit strength in anyway...or show their ankles.

[jalan48]

60. Wow-never saw that type of behavior in our house growing up.

Women have always been soft-spoken and quiet. Right?

[Kip Humphrey]

61. i used to respect you. i really did. but you need to take a chill pill. seriously.

disappointed and saddened with no sarcasm intended.

[MADem]

70. Yes, because only SOME POSTERS are "allowed" to post ironically at DU.

I respect MM enormously--more since he posted this thread.

I think you should take one of those "chill pills" if what someone writes on a discussion board can leave you "disappointed and saddened."

With no sarcasm intended, either. That's a bit of an extreme reaction to someone who holds a view different from your own.

[Nanjeanne]

63. Seriously?

... by saying that shouting won't help. That's rude, to say the least.

CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it's time the entire country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.

COOPER: We're going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.

SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.

Seriously, people read this as telling Clinton to stop shouting? I am amazed. Bernie has said over and over again when talking about guns that people have to stop shouting at one another and start talking. He simply used the words, Secretary Clinton, because the moderator was asking him to respond to her point. It's like when I tell my husband after listening to this crap "What I am saying MrNan is that all this sarcasm and misrepresenting won't make people feel differently about Hillary if they already think she's a phony". I truly don't think my husband would think I was talking about him being sarcastic or misrepresenting.

Thinking people can easily see this is one of those silly things that the Clinton people jumped on to keep playing the "women stick together" card. I truly do not believe Hillary or her people are that stupid. If you are telling me they are that stupid and that they completely misunderstood what Sanders was saying - then I will definitely have to think twice about supporting her if she does get the nomination. At this point I don't know what's worse. Believing she is truly incapable of understanding what Sanders meant - or is just playing politics in the "gotcha" mode she seems to have no trouble playing but insists it's terrible when it has been done to her.

If she actually was trying to be funny because Sanders shouts himself - I'm sure there was a way to do it that would actually have made Bernie (and his supporters) laugh. His camp calling him sexist and Clinton pretending that Sanders wants women to speak softly and be demure is just plain ludicrous and smacks of everything I dislike about Hillary. I was hoping she could get me to feel good about voting for her if (when) the time comes. This sure isn't doing it.

[elleng]

69. BIG STICK!

[frylock]

71. Don't quit your day job, whatever that is.