Hillary supporters keep telling me we won't have single payer in America anytime soon

[think]

I agree. If Hillary is president that will be the case.

[brooklynite]

1. Ditto for Sanders.

If you think otherwise, explain how the change will occur.

[RobertEarl]

4. He at least will try

But with Hillary forget it.

The elites like Hillary do not want socialized health care, they just want us to hurry up and die.

[MohRokTah]

7. No, he won't even try.

The Republicans will control the House until at least 2022. The currently gerrymandered districts guarantee that and until there is another census, that remains the same.

Nobody will be capable of even attempting to bring in single payer (which ironically was what Hillary suggested we have back in 1992 which resulted in the mad anti-Hillary backlash by the right) until after the districts have been redrawn.

[Armstead]

41. Well then, I guess it doesnlt matter who is preident. meybe we should just turn over the keys...

and let the GOP drive the car unencumbered until 2022.

[treestar]

81. It does, they have to be for it

And so does Congress.

[Scootaloo]

9. Exactly that. Hillary and her supporters are only about sure things

If it looks hard, don't try.

[RobertEarl]

12. They are chickens

They are afraid of the republicans. They also do not like equality where everyone has an equal opportunity. They only want what's best for the elites.

[hifiguy]

46. A Turd Wayer would settle for an initial offer of one slice

rather than even ask for the whole loaf. or even a half loaf, of bread. Preemptive surrender to RWNJs s their one and only negotiating ploy.

But if it benefits the oligarchs and they are making common cause with the billionaire class, then the gloves come off. See the TPP/TTIP.

[treestar]

83. Just asking does not get you anywhere

on complex matters like this.

The Congress can just say no. It's the ones who want the change who have to "settle." Congress doesn't have to change anything. They don't have to pass a bill for anything. Funny here we see no effort whatsoever to try to get them to. You just leave it all to the President.

I'd love to hear of the clever negotiating ploys that can overcome the will of experienced politicians without their knowing it.

[hifiguy]

84. What I learned in law school and clerking for two very smart judges

is that the world's worst possible strategy in ANY negotiation is to put the very least you will settle for on the table as your initial offer. It borders on malpractice. You think a master political negotiator like LBJ or Tip O'Neill EVER did that?

Preemptive cave-ins are just plain gutless. You ALWAYS initially ask for, even demand, more than you are willing to settle for in any negotiation. MUCH more, to get the other side to raise their offer. And any lawyer or judge worth a damn will tell you that much.

This is NOT rocket science, algebraic geometry or string theory, for pete's sake.

[treestar]

80. So what does "trying" consist of?

He demands of the House that they pass a single payer bill. They laugh.

He repeats his demand over and over.

No different than their "repeals" of the ACA which they know are going nowhere.

[think]

5. We elect leaders that are willing to fight for it. You know like Canada, England, Germany, France

and other knowledgeable countries did.

America is capable of electing strong leaders isn't it?

[MohRokTah]

10. If Sanders attempted to fight for single payer with a GOP house, he's an even bigger FOOL

than I currently believe he is.

[think]

13. You still envision a GOP house. That may be. but if your vision already includes such things then of

course that's the outcome you'll get.

Do you even want single payer?

It sure doesn't sound like it....

[MohRokTah]

16. A GOP controlled House is guaranteed, regardless.

That will be a fact of life until January 3, 2023 at the very minimum due to how House districts are currently drawn. There is no way to alter this fact until 2021 when redistricting occurs after the census of 2020.

[artislife]

39. That poster doesn't know what they want

Hillary keeps changing her position on things.

[brooklynite]

59. I envision a Republican House because every Democratic candidate says there'll be one...

...I get the up close and personal break-downs from DCCC and even they don't see a path to D control of the House before redistricting.

[RobertEarl]

15. He already did

And thanks to folks like you, the republicans defeated it. They love the uninformed people who by their lack of wisdom are their main supporters.

[MohRokTah]

17. The politically naive astound me. eom

[RobertEarl]

24. You astound yourself?

You are some kind of comedian? Too bad none of it is funny. You actually take yourself seriously.

You are either for equality and fairness, or you are not. One does not stop fighting for the good things just because the republicans say no.

Who do you listen to?

[artislife]

40. Are you repeating something that was said to you? nt

[treestar]

66. Parliamentary systems

the executive (the Prime Minister) is the executive because they are the head of the party that won the Parliament. Makes it way easier to have enough commonality to enact an agenda.

[think]

70. There will always be plenty of excuses as to why America CAN'T do it.

For many this appears to be a sufficient reason to not even try. I'm not buying it. You are welcome to your skepticism but I prefer to envision better things for America and work to elect those with the will and courage to try...

[treestar]

76. You have not, however, addressed the difference between our system

and a parliamentary one. It is the single reason we don't have it already. The powers given to states cause us to drag along a lot slower. Those countries don't have that. Your post in unresponsive.

[think]

77. So what if they have a different system. Does that mean we should just settle for

Second best? You and Hillary can settle. Bernie and others will fight for it.

Americans deserve single payer as a basic human right. We are not without the means to make it happen unless we choose to elect weak leaders who won't fight for what is right.

We may not get single payer even if we fight for it but we certainly won't get it with Hillary since she's not willing to go there.

Polls show Americans want single payer and the more they learn about it the more they will demand and elect leaders who will give it to them.

So go ahead and keep claiming America can't do it because of our system of government or whatever excuse you prefer to come up with but that certainly isn't a spirit I care to emulate.

[treestar]

78. Who is arguing that? No one.

You were the one who emphasized that the other countries had it. I only pointed out it is harder for us. That's reality, we have to "settle" until we can get the votes. Both Congress and the Presidency. And the voters have to vote for such a Congress and the Presidency.

[daleanime]

28. So you're saying that it's better to not to try changing things....

then to try because you might fail?

And a PS-I keep seeing these "how will Bernie....?" things from Hillary's supports, when is Hillary going to explain how she's going to work with her "greatest enemy"? It's not like they've spent 30 years nursing their hatred or anything like that.

[JaneyVee]

2. Vermont. Couldn't. Pass. It.

[LuvLoogie]

6. They did pass it.

They could not implement it. Math and all that...

[RobertEarl]

25. Once again JV is wrong

I am constantly amazed by how wrong JV is about nearly everything.

Kinda embarrassing, isn't it?

[pinebox]

8. Bernie isn't the Governor of Vermont

Trying to equate VT couldn't pass single payer to Bernie Sanders is a really long reach. He has no say in state issues, remember, he serves in DC. Jeeze. You should know this shit.

[Krytan11c]

19. Oh they know it.

They just choose to ignore it.

[LuvLoogie]

34. I don't ignore it at all.

Is Bernie's math different than that used by the current governor of Vermont? How would he have implemented it in Vermont? Do you accept "It's not MY job" as an answer? He is not the governor, but he wants to be President.

During the past 5 years there gave been 61 votes to repeal the ACA. How many votes to implement Single-Payer? Where are the votes going to come from, the Single-Payer Party?

[azmom]

3. They keep telling us lots of nonsense. It's

all noise.

[think]

11. Indeed. They keep telling me what CAN'T be done. That's not the kind of leadership I want...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. The same was said about emancipation, women's suffrage, the 40hour work week, and scores of other

"impossible" things.

[MohRokTah]

20. Everything youve described took DECADES ti implement.

In the case of women's suffrage and emancipation, nearly a century each.

Things do not happen overnight in politics. Expecting Sanders to waltz into the White House and magically implement single payer is the height of political naivete.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. No kidding. So, do we vote for someone who will promote it or someone who will settle for less?

For me, the answer is obvious.

[MohRokTah]

23. Obviously, we settle for moving the ACA towards single payer. Baby steps. That's how this works.

BTW, you did know Hillary Clinton promoted Single Payer way back in 1993, didn't you? That's what the Republicans originally savaged her over

You did know that we had to have DOTA before we could have openly gay service members, right? Did you know what the military was like before DOTA? The MPs would spend about a third of their man hours seeking out gay service members.

You cannot reach your goal overnight because in a democratic republic, the regressive bigots get the same vote you have.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. When I was in the military I didn't notice the MPs doing much of anything

except seeking out unruly drunks and beating up unruly anybodys..except unruly officers.

And, the regressive idiots will get the same vote under Hillary. So, why the "baby steps"? Are we to take "baby steps" in demanding equal rights, peace, civil liberties, or justice?

“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." Thomas Paine

[Armstead]

42. I love that Thomas Paine quote

On edit:

Wait a minute. Now it's different...

[enlightenment]

32. You should let Hillary know what she was promoting.

Because by her own admission, she never seriously considered single payer.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/march/hillary_clinton_on_s.php

Q: Let’s talk for a minute about the formulation of your plan. I’m interested in how seriously you considered proposing a single payer system and at what point in that discussion did you decide to propose an individual mandate?

MRS. CLINTON: You know, I have thought about this, as you might guess, for 15 years and I never seriously considered a single payer system. Obviously, I listened to arguments about its advantages and disadvantages, and many people who I have a great deal of respect for certainly think that it is the only way to go. But I said, as you quoted me, that we had to do what would appeal to and actually coincide with what the body politic will and political coalition building was. So I think if you look at most public opinion surveys, even from groups of people who you would think would be pretty positive towards single payer, Americans have a very skeptical attitude. They don’t really know that Medicare is a single payer system. They don’t really think about that. They think about these foreign countries that they hear all these stories about, whether they’re true or not, which they’re often not. And so talking about single payer really is a conversation ender for most Americans, because then they become very nervous about socialized medicine and all the rest of this. So I never really seriously considered it.

Perhaps you are confused?

[Armstead]

43. After reading that, I'm sure confused

[TheKentuckian]

71. No, I don't most likely because of such thing was in her proposal. Not in this dimension.

In fact, my recollection was more of one scoffing at single payer activists.

An employer mandate isn't single payer.

[hifiguy]

85. How many people have to die

while we wait for the "baby steps" are taken.

What is an acceptable number for you? You must have one.

[MohRokTah]

86. That makes no difference whatsoever.

IT cannot be done overnight. It's taken over a century to get to the ACA alone.

Magically wishing it could happen overnight with some sainted politician you think can wave his magic wand will only disappoint you.

[hifiguy]

87. I hope you can live with yourself.

Many won't live at all.

Taking your case to the people has always been an effective tool for real leaders to use.

Lincoln. Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson (the League of Nations) Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson. They all took the case for difficult issues to the public. All Bubba and Obama have ever done is say "nope, can't be done, why even bother making the case."

It is far better to try nobly and fail in the first instance while moving the cause forward than preemptively accept defeat.

That is what LEADERS do. Lapdogs of the powerful are content not to try.

[MohRokTah]

88. That's just too bad.

It's how the system functions. There isn't any way to progress even a single baby step so long as the GOP controls the House and they have that locked up until 2023 because whiny radical leftist extremists sat out 2010 because Obama didn't give them their pony.

[hifiguy]

89. Whatever.

Not even TRYING is inexcusable. Utterly and completely inexcusable.

And seeing the way average people are being reamed by Big Insurance/Pharma, whom Obama graciously invited to write most of the bill, it's not something I'd want to brag too much about

[MohRokTah]

90. TRYING is INEXCUSABLE!!

Politicians who waste valuable political capital, which is a finite commodity, on issues that are doomed to failure before they are even raised are IDIOTS! They don't deserve to be elected beause their idiocy will cause more problems than anything they can solve.

[hifiguy]

91. Bye now.

Keep telling yourself that nice thick shit sandwich is really a Philly cheesesteak from Tony Luke Jr's.

[MohRokTah]

92. Wasted time on issues that cannot be advanced...

Are the worst shit sandwiches of all.

[think]

29. Looks like they'll kick back and settle. They'll let Bernie do all the heavy lifting and then

show support for it once the hard work is done.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Yep. The Go Along to Get Along wing of the party usually tells us it can't be done.

And, then take credit when it does get done.

[Sheepshank]

33. Bernie has never sponsored "heavy lifting" policy

And suddenly you think he'll be able to do that?

I take that back...I think there was one...and I can't even remember that one.

His co-sponsorships are his magnificent legacy. Meaning he agreed with and was willing to endorse the policy sponsored and even authored by others.

[treestar]

68. A politician can do both but

in the case of heath care, settling for less is better than nothing. You can't hold out something like that in Congress. They aren't going to pass single payer because of refusing to "settle for" the ACA.

Politics is about compromise. Non-compromising people get nothing.

[Doctor_J]

44. The British nhs was implemented in two years. Medicare took less than that.

Do you ever think before you post?

[MohRokTah]

53. This is not the UK.

Medicare failed to be included in the original Social Security act and took decades before being passed into law under LBJ with a massive Dem majority in both houses.

[sadoldgirl]

18. It depends on the situation

Already in several states the new health co-ops are failing,
and that could cause the whole ACA to flop.

In that case a new effort for universal healthcare may
be very popular, especially if the insurances go up.
We shall see.

[Sunlei]

22. I support them BOTH, & I'll tell you-The RW doesn't want Americans to have single payer

[Doctor_J]

38. And neither does Mrs Clinton

That should tell you something

[stillwaiting]

26. Some of them will take credit for it if it ever does come to pass.

They'll flip at the last second and take credit.

After all of the struggles and hard-fought battles that the activists and "idealists" waged to garner enough support over the years, some of them will take credit (in their own minds) and minimize all of the hard work that was actually done over YEARS to galvanize support for its passage.

Kind of like Hillary did with gay marriage. What was it 2013 where she finally changed her mind after telling everyone for years that she was against it? Their actions today help to delay its passage for longer than should be the case, but some of them will still take credit for it.

[msongs]

35. yeah like Vermont has. you know Vermont where Bernie's been a politicians for decades lol nt

[think]

36. Laughing at America's inability to ensure healthcare coverage is Hilarious!

[Zorra]

47. Just FYI, Sen. Sanders is a US legislator, not a Vermont State legislator.

There's a huge difference.

Vermont State Legislators are the legislators responsible for enacting state laws and policy for the State of Vermont.

[hill2016]

48. why doesn't

his bully pulpit work in Vermont?

[restorefreedom]

54. he serves at a FEDERAL LEVEL

he just happens to represent the people of the state of vermont

please tell me you know this.

[hill2016]

57. does he have any influence over

the people in Vermont?

[restorefreedom]

62. he is free to share his opinion

like anyone else. but he has no rule in the functioning of local government or state government other than to be a voter like anyone else. You guys are really reaching if this is all you can try to put on him.

[hill2016]

64. so why didn't he

share his opinion with the good people of Vermont?

Do people who are not in local/state government try to influence public policy at the local/state government? Union leaders? Business leaders? Religious leaders? Civil right leaders? Federal Senators?

Was Martin Luther King Jr ever part of any local, state, or federal government? Was Susan Anthony?

Either he didn't try (didn't care enough) or he tried and failed. Which is it?

[restorefreedom]

75. why couldn't hillary convince the country

that doma was a bad idea? she either failed or didn't try hard enough.

ridiculous arguments go both ways

[TheKentuckian]

72. I guess like Hillary Clinton is responsible for stop and frisk and we have Rand Paul

and Mitch McConnell to thank for Kynect?

Your argument is weak, at the very best.

[Doctor_J]

37. they're the same ones who said heritage care was a "great first step toward single payer"

They aren't called Camp Weather vane for nothing.

[liberal_at_heart]

45. I don't understand. Obama supporters fought tooth and nail for ACA, but they are okay with

not having single payer. It doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't the people that fought so hard for ACA be willing to fight for single payer? It's like the whole war thing. It's not okay when Bush takes us to war but it is okay when Obama or Clinton take us to war. This really, truly doesn't make any sense to me. I myself will never give up. I will fight tooth and nail for single payer, and I will only vote for politicians who fight for single payer as well.

[BlueCheese]

49. Of course, single payer is a good end goal.

But you have to have a plan of getting there. You can introduce it into the House or Senate, and it will die a quiet death. For all I know, it has been introduced into the House or Senate, and it died a quiet death. With Congress as it is now, it's simply impossible.

So what I'm looking for are realistic steps that can be taken to improve the health care situation. Believe me, I would love Medicare for all. Saying "Medicare for all" isn't a health care program, any more than flapping my arms is a plan for me to get to New York. What steps can be taken now that will help the uninsured get coverage? What can we do about scuzzballs like the guy who raised the price of an HIV pill by 5000%? Yes, single payer is the goal, but you need a plan to move the ball. "Score touchdowns" isn't a game plan.

[liberal_at_heart]

50. I didn't hear this argument with the ACA and the Republicans have tried to kill it

how many hundreds of time? I mean literally how many times have they voted to get rid of ACA? I know it is at least over a hundred. Yes, single payer is a fight. That does not mean we should not fight for it. Now.

[BlueCheese]

52. We had a unique opportunity in 2009-2010.

It was the first time since 1993-1994 that Democrats controlled the White House and both houses on Congress. Not coincidentally, those were the two times we tried hard for health care reform. Maybe we should have tried for Medicare for all then. But Obama didn't, and we got the ACA instead.

Unfortunately, it is very likely that the GOP will control one or both houses of Congress in 2017. There is simply no way that a Republican-led House or Senate will advance any sweeping positive health care legislation. As you point out, of course, they're happy to repeal things. So Medicare for all, while terrific, is not going to happen in the next few years.

Now, there may come a time when we recapture Congress and also hold the White House. We should definitely be working on that as well. But that is a long slog, with no guarantee of success. So while I like that Sanders is proposing single payer, I also want to know what he plans on doing if he has to deal with a Republican Congress. We need to have a proposals that can make at least some progress immediately.

[liberal_at_heart]

55. I don't have a crystal ball. I can't tell you what year Medicare for all will be passed. You may be

right. All I know is I am not going to wait to fight. I will fight for Medicare for all right now. Every fight starts somewhere and the circumstances usually are not ideal when the fight starts. If it was ideal, there wouldn't be much of a need for a fight. The Labor Movement, The Civil Rights Movement, The Suffrage Movement didn't wait for the perfect time to fight. They just fought, and fought, and fought until they won. And that is what needs to happen now.

[MrWendel]

51. You want single payer?

Do something about redistricting in states by corrupt republican governors and they we might have a chance. Other wise its Democrats for the presidency and republicans for the house and senate. All the promises in the world wont do a damn thing if everything is blocked. Not sure what the next president can do to work around congress if they are dead set on blocking everything.

[Agnosticsherbet]

56. Single Payer must be initiated on the House.

This is not going to happen even if we won back the House with a supermajority.

Vermont tried, but found out that massive increase ln state taxes on citizens and businesses made it impossible. People faced with more thadoubling their taxes would not accept it.

A President Sanders might ask for such a bill, but Noone will write it.

[think]

58. Naysaying is so yesterday. We'll never have it if no one fights for it. I'm thankful

Bernie has the courage and commitment to teach Americans about healthcare being a basic human right.

Hillary has no intention of mentioning it.

If Bernie would win there will be coattails and everyone will know why he won. Americans want good healthcare solutions and damn it we deserve good solutions!

Once Americans understand that the rest of the modern world has it they will demand it also....

[Agnosticsherbet]

63. The coattails argument has no basis in current political reality.

People in Vermont could not understand when given the bill. That is why our one experiment in attempting to set up such a system failed.

People in the rest of the US will be a much harder sell.

The way to get to a good Healthcare system is to make small improvements over time. That was how social security and Medicare have improved overtime. Of course, that requires people to remain active every election and in every race.

[slipslidingaway]

60. HC was THE issue back in 2007 but the insurance and pharma companies were handed ...

a gift by the Dems when they denounced an insurance system for all, and we always blame the other party for all that goes awry

Obama made a deal with Billy Tauzin, after making a campaign commercial entitled "billy" that took him to task for drug prices.

Just listening now to aljazera news and the increase in Ativan, this was a drug my husband had many days during his two allogeneic transplants for acute leukemia, they are speaking of the cost increase even though this drug has been around for decades. I am not happy, it is a powerful drug for a myriad of symptoms and that many transplant patients rely upon. Screw the for profit centers, this drug has been around for decades.

For profit centers do not belong in our our HC system!

You want to buy a boat or a fast car, fine. But you should not make an enormous profit on my life.

[Historic NY]

61. You think Speaker Ryan would allow it to come to the floor????????????

There many be nuances made to the ACA but were not going to see single payer for some time .

Note to the uninfomed the GOP house just voted to defund Obamacare for the 61st time. So those asshats aren't giving up either.

[treestar]

65. Not until you can get a Congress that will pass it

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. if we do away with our democratic system and elect a king/queen

we can have many nicer things. until that happens, we have a house/senate/fox news/lobbyists etc to contend with.

[think]

69. If you don't fight for it and don't promote it of course it will NEVER happen.

I want a true leader not a pragmatic politician who doesn't even try.

After Bernie has promoted it, made the American public aware, and increased desire and demand the pragmatic politicians will step in. According to polls the majority of Americans already want single payer. What we need are bold leaders with the courage to fight for it.

Americans deserve single payer or universal healthcare do they not?

[Renew Deal]

73. It's not happening unless we can turn congress around with supermajorities

And not just 60 in the senate because there are always defectors.

[think]

74. It will never happen if no one is willing to take the lead and fight for it. Hillary so far shows no

inclination to even try. She's fine with the ACA and will only work to protect it and make small improvements. That's not good enough IMO. America should not be the one of the only modern industrialized country that does not guarantee health care as a basic right for it's citizens.

Americans deserve single payer as a bare minimum and I prefer to support a true leader who has the courage to fight for what is right not just what is expedient and easy to accomplish. It may take years to accomplish but the fight must start NOW. Not 4 or 8 years from now. It's already ridiculous we as a nation have waited this long to have this discussion.

Polls already show the majority of Americans desire a single payer solution to pay for healthcare. Bernie is promoting single payer and educating the general public on how America is missing out on this important basic right. Americans will begin to aggressively demand this basic right the more they understand what is at stake.

there will always be plenty of excuses for why single payer can't happen. I prefer to look for those that are willing to find solutions to MAKE IT HAPPEN.

My 2 cents...

[treestar]

79. WE have to elect the Congress.

The POTUS "fighting" for it is empty language. WE have to do the fighting.

[Vinca]

82. Telling us what we "can't" do usually comes from Republicans.

[PatrickforO]

93. Trouble is, I want single payer NOW.