Why did Sanders leave the event after he spoke?

[Evergreen Emerald]

I am bothered by the fact that he ate the democrats' food, dissed the democratic candidate, and then left without speaking to the democrats in the audience, or with the other candidates.

It reminded me of the things the democrats said about his behavior in the Senate when he was bad-mouthed Democrats.

[DURHAM D]

1. All three candidates returned to the stage at the end.

O'Malley and Clinton stayed afterwards for about an hour to work the rope lines, take pics, talk to reporters, etc. It appears, however, that Sanders immediately left the building. Maybe he was going to another location to meet with his volunteers.

[artislife]

19. Maybe

Thank you for your sanity.

We all should be up in arms with the following, though.


He ate at the table and and he articulated why people should vote for him.

Unacceptable!!

[jwirr]

36. Agreed - just another attempt to tell all of us supporters that

we are not Democrats. Are you so sure he left? It is Bernie's practice to go outside the building to talk with those who could not get in or who are leaving. Why would he change this policy of thinking about the ones outside?

[Art_from_Ark]

259. Just another smear attempt by Team Slytherin

Some people just have no sense of shame.

[djean111]

2. The event ran late, due to enhanced security screenings, and the chartered buses were leaving.

It is not like you support Bernie, anyway.
Personally, I am bothered by more war, fracking, the TPP, cluster bombs - things like that.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. You and I are on two different topics.

But, you know that.

Nice diss, however.

[djean111]

5. I see the "leaving early" topic as unimportant to the country. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. Except to those are insulted by his very presence, because, you know,

She is inevitable! Like Jeb!

Yeah, right, a surprising number of my friends, even gun owning conservatives,
are telling me they would vote for the Bern.

The desperation among her ransackers here is getting pretty rank.

[Omaha Steve]

21. Speaking of a nice diss

Just where did you get your info? Link?


Maybe this photo that includes Iowa Democratic Party Chair Dr. Andy McGuire was photoshopped?

[LiberalArkie]

147. Had to have been Photoshopped since we know for a "fact" that he left as soon as he

finished his speech.

So many lies by so many bullies trying to start stuff.

[JaneyVee]

78. So he bussed in people?

We used to diss Repubs for that.

[Ed Suspicious]

97. Wow. Just . . . fucking . . . wow.

[beam me up scottie]

99. Right?

[AzDar]

126. They're getting desperate...

Fucking UGH.

[beam me up scottie]

129. Throwing shit against the wall, hoping it'll stick.

When it doesn't they smear it around themselves thinking no one can see what they're doing.

Ssdd.

[cherokeeprogressive]

139. This one never fails to amuse. Never. nt

[appalachiablue]

200. Correct, Bernie was mixing on stage afterwards. Bill even went over to talk to Jane for a while.

The Dinner Speeches started quite Late, after 10 PM ET. Many attendees had to depart to catch buses (not limos) back to their hotels after the formal speeches ended. And Bernie had events the next day. No one sets schmooze rules.

As well Bernie and a couple thousand supporters had Marched that day on foot to the Dinner event in Des Moines after his successful afternoon campaign Rally. All this has been combed over here since last night. Offended my cat.

[Omaha Steve]

4. He caucused with the D's

How is that bad mouth? He could have been with the R's!

[BlueCaliDem]

49. Sanders didn't caucus with Democrats from "day one" as he now tells it.

From a Buzzfeed piece dated Thursday, June 11, 2015:

Speaking on the Diane Rehm show on public radio Wednesday, Sanders, who alternately describes himself as a “socialist” and a “democratic socialist,” claimed that he had caucused with the Democrats for his whole time as a federal lawmaker, despite formally identifying as an Independent.

“It is true. I always win in Vermont as an Independent,” he said. “But I have been in
the Democratic caucus in the House and the Senate from the first day that I was—took office—and will abide by all of the rules and regulations of secretaries of state around this country and the Democratic Party and intend to be on the ballot in 50 states and intend to do everything I can to win this election.”

But in 1993, while on Larry King Live, Sanders corrected substitute host Bob Beckel when Beckel said that, though he wasn’t a Democrat, “you caucus with the Democrats.”

“No, actually, I don’t,” Sanders said.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/despite-claims-bernie-sanders-hasnt-always-caucused-with-dem#.cbzMNpKKBg

I guess he's evolved just in time for the presidential elections.

[Omaha Steve]

53. Good find

I stand corrected. He only votes with them most of the time except for wars and such.

[BlueCaliDem]

76. Thanks, OS!

I stand corrected. He only votes with them most of the time except for wars and such.

Not true.

He's voted for the Afghanistan war. Before that, he's supported the Kosovo war. It's true he didn't vote to for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, but he's voted for funding it ever since.

This past Sunday Sanders criticized Hillary Clinton for her support of the Iraq war, declaring, “On foreign policy, Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq…Not only I voted against, I helped lead the effort against what I knew would be a disaster." Sanders assertion about Clinton is obviously true, but the difference between the two candidates on war is hardly substantial and his political closet is filled with as many skeletons. Notably he supported NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, a stance which caused one of his staffers to resign in protest.

***snip***

The attack on Kosovo is hardly the extent of Sanders' hawkishness. While it's true he voted against the Iraq War, he also voted in favor of authorizing funds for that war and the one in Afghanistan. More recently, he voted in favor of a $1 billion aid package for the coup government Ukraine and supported Israel's assault on Gaza. At a town hall meeting he admitted that Israel may have "overreacted", but blamed Hamas for the entire conflict. After a woman asked why he refused to condemn Israel's actions, he told critics: "Excuse me! Shut up! You don’t have the microphone.”
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad

He's also voted for the use of drones and supports President Obama's drone program and will NOT vote to end it. In that, he's no different than President Obama or Hillary Clinton...or the majority of Democrats when it comes to war and the MiC (remember his glee that Vermont would replace their $20 million dollar a pop F-16s with $115 million dollar a pop F-35?).

[portlander23]

63. I don't think he's evolved

He's an independent and has been. He's hijacking the Democratic party apparatus because the deck is stacked against 3rd party runs.

And you know what, I think it's a great idea.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

72. Hijacking? Like with a gun in the cockpit? Or with a rag like a

Hijacked server?

[riversedge]

134. your analogy is beyond the pale stupid.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

137. My day is now complete.

I call out a fool, get attacked as stupid by someone even more foolish, and can only laugh. Hell, even your silly logo points to the right.

[BlueCaliDem]

79. "And you know what, I think it's a great idea."

I'm convinced it's a BAD idea, because the only people who will benefit from destroying the unity and strength of the Democratic Party are Republicans and the very "oligarchy" Sanders supporters say they despise and want to get rid of.

[demwing]

117. what you're calling for isn't unity

it's uniformity.

[BlueCaliDem]

173. I'm calling for unity amongst Democrats against Republicans.

Define that however you will. But the only way we'll get anything positive for this country done, is to ensure we unite behind a Democrat who can beat Republicans to ensure NO Republican reaches the White House, and that we take back the Senate in 2016 and then the House in 2020.

[tularetom]

187. The "unity and strength of the Democratic party" is a fiction

It was fatally weakened by Bill Clinton and the DLC in the 90's and dealt a death blow by Obama's failure to support down ticket Democrats in the off year elections of 2010 and 2014.

Sanders is actually trying to bring it back to life.

[BlueCaliDem]

205. "Sanders is actually trying to bring it back to life."

And you actually think a non-Democrat can bring unity and strength to the Democratic Party? That same Party he's been railing against for 24+ years? That same Party whose base are PoC and for which Sanders has failed to gain support?

Okay.

It was fatally weakened by Bill Clinton and the DLC in the 90's

You can make a reasonable argument about that.

and dealt a death blow by Obama's failure to support down ticket Democrats in the off year elections of 2010 and 2014.

Here's where you're wrong.

2010 were the midterms. Democrats have always ignored the midterms. I hope that will change in my lifetime. Anyway, trumped up anger from TeaHadists paid for by the Koch Bros and getting 24/7 news coverage against healthcare reform, plus the call by prominent Liberals to "sit out the election and teach Democrats a lesson!" or "don't vote and purge the BlueDogDems from Congress!" played a major role in the defeat of Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House.

2014, Dems in Congress BEGGED President Obama to put off using his executive powers to halt deportations of undocumented immigrants—a move widely viewed as a political maneuver, and seen by immigrant activists as a betrayal - until after the midterms. learning about this, Latinos/Hispanics decided not to turn out for Democrats.

The youth vote and the Hispanic/Latino vote is the reason why Republicans won sweepingly in 2014. But then again, the election map favored Republicans, unlike the 2016 one.

[frylock]

237. Approximately 30% of registered voters are Democrats..

the other 70% don't give a shit about your party.

[BlueCaliDem]

239. "the other 70% don't give a shit about your party." MY Party? Not yours frylock?

Which begs the question, what's your Party then and why are you doing on a pro-Democratic Party site?

I've had my suspicions about you but thanks for removing all doubt. I guess, these days, with a huge amount of anti-Democrat posters on Democratic Underground attacking President Obama and Hillary Clinton (and any other Democrat) but supporting a non-Democrat for the Democratic nomination, it stands to reason not everyone is a member of the Democratic Party. The question is, what is their purpose posting here and attacking Democrats?

[frylock]

241. My voter registration is Decline to State..

so you can call me an Independent or unaffiliated, but I have voted almost exclusively for Democrats my entire life, and have never voted for a Republican. I don't feel an inherent need to BELONG to any group or party, and I don't get caught up in the cult of personality like so many others here. Moreover, I don't give two shits about your suspicions. I attack issues, and if Democrats are going to push conservative legislature, I'm going to call them out for that.

[BlueCaliDem]

242. Of course it is.

I'm not calling you an "Independent" or "Unaffiliated". I have a different title for you. That said, I only have your word that you "voted for Democrats all your life", but of course you'll make an exception this election and vote for the Independent-slash-Socialist-slash-Democratic Socialist who's hated on Democrats and the Democratic Party all his political career. So excuse me if your claim rings hollow and, yeah, I know you don't give two shits about that, either. Guess what? I don't give two shits that you don't give two shits. How's that?

[frylock]

244. Oh noes! Some anonymous partisan on the internets doesn't believe me!!1

For you to believe that I vote for Democrats would shatter the narrative you've built up about me and other posters. Guess how much I care? The problem when you get so wrapped up into personalities is that any criticism is viewed as hatred, and is put on the same level as someone literally attacking a beloved friend or family member. Bernie "hating" on Democrats is some serious hyperbolic bullshit. The best part is that we're the ones being labeled as emo.

[appalachiablue]

208. +10. Bravo, well said! True about Bernie's efforts and reality of the DLC Dem. Party sorry to say.

For what it's worth I've been to JJ Dinners and many Dem. Party events of all kinds and NO ONE is a prisoner, 'kay? They're mostly well done affairs but there is flexibility and common sense, unlike this nonsense, accusatory OP.

At an evening forum (not rally) where Bernie was a speaker he talked to everyone after it ended and departed like others as I saw. What a load this is..

[Jackilope]

115. One only has to look Third Way to see "hijacking".

Seriously, if you wanted to see serious harm to the Democratic Party, he'd be running Independent.

[PatrickforO]

81. WOW. Seems like you're omitting something HUGE, there Blue...

When first elected, Bernie ASKED to caucus with Dems but was REBUFFED.

So, you see, your assertion that he deserves some kind of opprobrium for his failure to caucus with the Dems ALWAYS is kinda blaming the victim...

That's OK, though. Because I don't actually care about stuff like this. I care about health care, Social Security, affordable college, tax policy for corporations so they actually pay their fair share, and about how if we don't do something about global warming ASAP, all this other stuff will be moot. That's why I'm for Bernie:

1. These are the issues he's talking about, and
2. He doesn't parse his words. You know where he stand from the get-go, as opposed to having to read it VERY carefully like you do with Clinton

For me, and in my opinion, Bernie is the better candidate for me because he is talking about stuff I care about, and I agree with his solutions.

[BlueCaliDem]

90. Not omitting anything. That's why I provided the link.

When first elected, Bernie ASKED to caucus with Dems but was REBUFFED.

Take into account that Sanders got elected by playing nice with the NRA - something his Democratic opponent and sitting U.S. Rep flip-flopped on. The NRA spent between $18,000 and $20,000 in attack ads against sitting U.S. Rep Peter Smith,and Sanders won the election. Do you think, maybe, that Democrats were a little perturbed about that? Maybe just a little?

I care about health care, Social Security, affordable college, tax policy for corporations so they actually pay their fair share, and about how if we don't do something about global warming ASAP, all this other stuff will be moot. That's why I'm for Bernie:

Actually, it's a solid case why you should be for Hillary Clinton.

You do understand that all those policies need new legislation, right? That Congress will have to pass bills in order to make them happen? And do you honestly believe Bernie Sanders has the connections and rapport amongst congressional Democrats to get any of these policies through? Seriously?

[PatrickforO]

100. I do.

That's why I remain for Bernie.

[BlueCaliDem]

104. Okay.

But I'm not, that's why I'm for Hillary Clinton.

[magical thyme]

109. "Sanders got elected by playing nice with the NRA" Really? Link please? because

this is how I remember him getting elected...


1st he lost in 1988, when he backed an assault weapons ban and his opponent, who won, opposed it.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/

In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmen’s groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle ban—even bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs.

Then he won against that incumbant in 1990, because his opponent ran on opposing the assault weapons ban and then turned around and wrote the ban.

the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. House—in 1990—where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before...

Bernie didn't cut any deals with the NRA and earned an F rating from them. But Bernie was honest, Smith betrayed those who elected him.

So if by "playing nice" you mean, said he would vote to ban assault weapons...and then voted to ban assault weapons, then yeah, he "played nice"

[BlueCaliDem]

151. Yes, but votes matter.

Not saying, at all, that Sanders "cut any deals" with the NRA, but he HAS voted FIVE TIMES against the Brady Bill after he got elected, and he has voted to give legal immunity to gun manufacturers.

As a candidate in 1990, Sanders won over gun rights groups by promising to oppose one bill they hated — a measure that would establish a waiting period for handgun sales. In Congress, he kept that promise. The dynamic served as an early demonstration that, despite his pure-leftist persona, Sanders was at his core a pragmatic politician, calculating that he couldn’t win in rural Vermont without doing something for gun owners.

***snip***

The NRA made Smith the only incumbent that it actively opposed in 1990. The group eventually spent between $18,000 and $20,000 on advertising and direct mail in Vermont, according to an estimate from the time.

***snip***

After he was elected, Sanders stuck to the assurances he had given gun rights groups. In 1991, he voted against a measure that would have required a seven-day waiting period to buy a gun. In 1993, Sanders voted against a broader version of the bill — named for James Brady, the White House press secretary who was shot in the 1981 attempt on President Ronald Reagan’s life — that became law.

That bill set up the national background check system in place today. But Sanders objected because it also included a provision for a temporary waiting period, said Weaver, his longtime aide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

Those early votes of his would be something I would call playing nice with the NRA, wouldn't you? I mean, if it were Hillary Clinton, that is. No amount of explaining from his campaign will change the fact that he voted against background checks and the Brady Bill, nor his D- NRA rating as opposed to both Martin O'Malley's and Hillary Clinton's F NRA rating.

[magical thyme]

207. and there are probably a DOZEN or more times he's voted to increase gun control.

That's why he's rated D- by the NRA. except when they rate him an F. That's why he's considered moderate and main stream on gun control.

His votes represent the constituency he was sent to congress to represent, not the ideological purity of a few.

He's never "played nice" with the NRA. They ran attack ads against his opponent because his opponent "played nice" with them and then betrayed them. Bernie had zip to do with that.

[thesquanderer]

214. What is the issue about "FIVE TIMES"?

Last edited Sun Oct 25, 2015, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

re:

but he HAS voted FIVE TIMES against the Brady Bill

I guess "FIVE TIMES" is good political rhetoric, but if he was against it the first time, should it be so surprising that he was against it the next? Maybe you're just used to candidates who change their minds.

It was a bad vote, fine. But you know, if he had voted against it and later voted for it, everyone screaming "FIVE TIMES" would instead be screaming "HE FLIP-FLOPPED!" There's no win to be had here.

If you care about the history of this, it's at http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-voted-against-brady/

I can absolutely understand why people say he made a mistake voting against this bill. But the reasons he voted the way he did, for better or worse, did not change between the 1st vote and the 5th, because the bill still had the same thing in it that he didn't like. "Voted against the Brady Bill" is a relevant point and a fair criticism, though.

[appalachiablue]

209. Excellent post esp. about Bernie's positions, clarity and integrity. Thank you!

(Excess schmoozing with insiders is quite low on my list of qualities for a political figure).

[senz]

83. Your link belies your comment, BlueCaliDem.

It states,

Bernie Sanders said he’s always caucused with Democrats, but when he was first elected to Congress, Democrats rebuffed his attempts to caucus with them.

So he attempted to caucus with us from the start.

(Just between you and me: do you think Hillary's success depends on your falsifying information about Bernie? If so, you can't have much faith in her.)

[BlueCaliDem]

91. Empty accusation. I'm not falsifying anything.

See my response to another poster who questioned that part as well: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=723845

So I return the question to you: Do you think Bernie's success depends upon you making false accusations against a Democrat who supports Hillary Clinton? If so, you can't have much faith in him.

[senz]

96. You even mislead in your response.

My, my. Pretty shameful, BlueCaliDem.

You wrote,

The NRA spent between $18,000 and $20,000 in attack ads against sitting U.S. Rep Peter Smith,and Sanders won the election. Do you think, maybe, that Democrats were a little perturbed about that? Maybe just a little?

Conveniently leaving out the fact that Rep Peter Smith is a REPUBLICAN!

Bernie beat a REPUBLICAN to win a seat in the House.

Now, your far-fetched allegations about Democrats being angry with Bernie?

[BlueCaliDem]

108. My mistake.

But thanks for not acting patronizing about it. Good job!

Still, it doesn't take away from the fact that the NRA paid mega bucks (in Vermont, at least) to get a principled Republican who changed his mind about sensible gun laws for a "socialist" or "independent" who believes in unfettered gun ownership. Peter Smith was a better choice and more in-line with the Democratic platform regarding gun safety laws. Sanders is not. Perhaps that's why Democrats weren't warming up to Sanders initially?

[beam me up scottie]

122. "a "socialist" or "independent" who believes in unfettered gun ownership"? Link please.

Not that I don't understand why a Hillary supporter would choose a "principled Republican" over a progressive Democratic Socialist but I call bullshit on your claim.

[senz]

125. Wow, I didn't know Hillary supporters could say that!

You just blew me away. That doesn't mean I'm going to start trusting you, though.

And I tried to be as patronizing as possible! Or maybe matronizing, with the "shame on you" stuff, as that comes more naturally.

But no, gun regulation is not central to Democratic politics. Not that it's irrelevant, but nowhere near central. The reason y'all keep bringing it up is that it's one of the few issues on which Bernie is not perfect. So you keep pushing and pushing on your little side-issue -- even calling him a "gun nut" -- hoping it will open a chasm between Democrats and Bernie. And you know that's exactly what you're doing.

What's central is this: Democrats stand for the little guy. Your lady does not give a whit about the little people. She runs with the oligarchs, and you know that too.

You have to square those contradictions within yourself. Me, I'd rather be true to my values and principles.

[BlueCaliDem]

165. Believe it or not, you'll see more of that from Hillary supporters than Sanders supporters.

Maybe that's why it blew you away?

gun regulation is not central to Democratic politics.

Actually, it is. You'd know that if you're a Democrat.

What's central is this: Democrats stand for the little guy.

Actually, for Black and Hispanic/Latino, it is. Democrats, in general, stand for equality FOR ALL. Period. And supporting and voting for a bill to give exclusive immunity to gun manufacturers under the law that NO OTHER American business is given, is not equality by any measure.

Your lady does not give a whit about the little people. She runs with the oligarchs, and you know that too.

No more than Bernie can be accused of doing. Or did you think the F-35 manufacturers, Lockheed Martin, part of the MiC, care about "the little people"? Or gun manufacturers?

Bernie Sanders is a politician first and foremost. He's a pragmatic socialist when it comes to voting on bills. But he's not presidential material simply because he has no allies in Congress - the branch of gov't he needs in order to make his promises a reality. Hillary Clinton, does.

[senz]

184. You threw the whole alphabet soup at me there

and none of it holds together as coherent thought.

I've been a Democrat all my adult life, and the people who politicized me turned me on to Civil Rights struggles, peace marches, and the long Democratic tradition of standing up for working people, ALL working people.

Those are Bernie's roots. Not Hillary's. She gave her idealistic years to Walmart -- and she hasn't changed.

Keep working on that weak, weak "gun nut" theme. Like grasping at straws for dear life.

[BlueCaliDem]

196. " none of it holds together as coherent thought."

Just the facts, senz. You might not like them, but those are the facts and it doesn't mean they're not "coherent".

I simply wanted to point out, that when you accuse Hillary Clinton for "running with the oligarchs", be reminded of Bernie Sanders' close relationship with Lockheed Martin and the billion-dollar gun manufacturer corporations that he favored over regular citizens.

She gave her idealistic years to Walmart

Obama attacked Clinton’s one-time membership on the board of directors of the world’s largest retailer, saying, “While I was watching those folks see their jobs shift overseas, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.”

It’s true that Clinton sat on the Wal-Mart board for six years while her husband was governor of Arkansas, where the chain has its corporate headquarters. She was paid about $18,000 a year for doing it. At the time, she worked at the Rose Law Firm, which had represented Wal-Mart in various matters.

But according to accounts from other board members, Clinton was a thorn in the side of the company’s founder, Sam Walton, on the matter of promoting women, few of whom were in the ranks of managers or executives at the time. She also strongly advocated for more environmentally sound corporate practices. She made limited progress in both areas. In 2005 she returned a $5,000 contribution from Wal-Mart, citing “serious differences” with its “current” practices.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2008_CBC_Dems_Corporations.htm

Keep working on that weak, weak "gun nut" theme. Like grasping at straws for dear life.

Why do you keep referring to Bernie Sanders as a "gun nut"? You'll never hear or read that from me.

[senz]

216. Like it or not,

Hillary did nothing to improve the actual working conditions for women while at Walmart, nor did she utter a peep in favor of unions. She merely served herself. As she always does.

[peacebird]

229. You said it, in a nutshell. +100000

[Aerows]

188. Unless you live in a rural area.

Then you absolutely understand the need for a rifle and a shotgun.

Personally, I see absolutely no need in society for handguns, because they only have one purpose - to kill people. You don't see people hunting with a 9mm, or trying to get rid of a wild hog in their back yard with a .38 special.

If someone is breaking into my house, I want a shotgun. If a wild animal is harassing the property and endangering people, I want a rifle or a shotgun. Both of those are far more likely than me being a "good guy" with a gun, and just a person that has it for strictly defensive purposes. Others do it for hunting.

I also benefit from that, since they tend to share deer meat with me, and it is absolutely delicious.

If you live in an urban environment, I can understand why that concept is absolutely foreign to you. I have no intention of confronting a wild hog or a 6 ft. alligator with sharp commentary and a speech.

[BlueCaliDem]

199. Rifles and shotguns? Absolutely! Even a good handgun for personal protection.

But not somewhat modified military assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Background checks, too, are very necessary. Other than that, I'm actually pro-2nd Amendment. I believe people should have the right to buy guns and collect them. But I also believe in the "well-regulated" part of that same Amendment.

By the way? I LOVE a nice piece of venison! You're lucky you have access to it.

[Aerows]

203. We see eye to eye on this particular issue

even if we don't see eye to eye on who is the best candidate

[lewebley3]

98. Agreed: Bernie is not a Dem: I am voting for a loyal Dem

[BlueCaliDem]

110. So am I and the majority of Americans. :-)

[lewebley3]

121. Three Cheers for Hillary

[Fawke Em]

146. And I'm voting for the person with Democratic ideals.

Not triangulating Third Way ones.

[BlueCaliDem]

168. I'm voting for the Democrat who can make those ideals become reality.

Not some non-Democrat who'll never see a single one of his policies become reality no matter how good they are simply because he has no support in Congress.

Actions mean more to me than words, no matter how fiery they're spoken. Most Americans will agree that we want a president who can get things DONE. I'm convinced, that person is not Bernie Sanders.

[merrily]

258. More legislation that Bernie wrote became law than legislation that Hillary wrote.

Her ability to get things done is something she says more than something that can be proven.

Bernie gets it done: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=694015

Job titles do not necessarily equate to accomplishments or qualifications http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=63762

[lewebley3]

215. Obama's and Clintons are leaders of the Dem party: Have worked for the party

Bernie has not supported the Dem party: he is the Dem party for
years. He didn't rasie money, he didn't help to run the DNCC.

[jeff47]

232. What's the DNCC? (nt)

[MADem]

6. No adult friends in the crowd? I'll tell ya, he--and his supporters--are coming off poorly.

This kind of conduct is a) Childish and b) Petulant:

The skirmish began even before each campaign's supporters — hundreds of them, each with their own signs, noisemakers and pre-rehearsed chants — began filing into a drafty hall at the Hy-Vee Center in downtown Des Moines, where the annual kingmaker’s ball takes place. At a pre-dinner rally, Sanders’ supporters flew a single-engine plane with the banner “FEEL THE BERN” directly over a Clinton rally headlined by the pop singer Katy Perry. During Clinton’s introduction at the dinner, Sanders' supporters — many of them in their teens and twenties — tried to drown out her intro with cheers for the democratic socialist. And they filed out quietly when she took the stage to speak, a hint of how passionately they feel about Sanders and their ambivalence about Clinton.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/clinton-iowa-215133#ixzz3pb67tZPb

What a way to play the "LALALALALALALA I can't HEEEEAAAR you!" attitude!

I thought that was a GOP forte!

[pandr32]

14. I hadn't heard this

This kind of behavior is uncalled for.

[MADem]

40. It speaks to the maturity of the group in attendance.

Unclear how many of those "teens" will be of voting age come a year from November. They clearly don't understand that rudeness doesn't resonate quite so well with adult voters--it may work when deciding who the Prom King might be, or who deserves a Teen Choice award, but it doesn't work when making grown-up decisions.

And buzzing a Clinton rally with a "Feel the Bern" plane? That just stunningly tone-deaf and childish. Do they think they're going to win hearts and minds with that kind of crap? All that stupid stunt did was steel the resolve of everyone in attendance to turn out for Clinton on caucus day--no excuses. I can't see the Iowans tolerating that kind of gross rudeness at all.

All that expense to rent a plane and banner...and the end result is a "Get Out The Vote" moment for HRC!

[pandr32]

47. I agree

I also noticed that here on DU too many of BS's supporters spread the same debunked right-wing attack points against HC. It feels as though many of these people are not democrats at all, but sports fanatics cheering their favorite team (Team Bernie) into the final game. Our party does not need this.

[R B Garr]

27. Exactly! Great post. They act like high schoolers

at a football game. And Sanders keeps shrinking in his role. How un-Presidential he is -- not even a Statesman.

[riversedge]

28. I saw a tweet last night that Sanders suporters left after he spoke--don't know

how many

[Fawke Em]

54. The event ran long.

And these people were in the bleachers and not eating.

At least they don't use terminology usually used to define royalty when discussing him. Hillary supporters sound like yes-men (and women) in the Queen's court.

[MADem]

80. The speeches were under fifteen minutes each. Sanders didn't break ten minutes.

It was rudeness to try (and fail) to drown out her intro, and it was rudeness to get up and leave.

If they were "hungry" why didn't they leave when O'Malley was speaking?

Excusing bad behavior with "baby needs a bottle" excuses is just not on.

[Fawke Em]

131. They have a right to do what they please.

Maybe they have heard enough from Hillary since she's been constantly in our lives for 20 years.

I probably would have left, too, and I'm very far from being a child.

[MADem]

157. Yes, they do--and we have a right to JUDGE them for doing what they please.

The Clinton supporters--who were there in great numbers, and enthusiastic-- listened to Sanders and even applauded politely.

The Sanders supporters tried to drown out Clinton's intro with that "Feel the Bern" bullshit.

They also hired a plane towing a "Feel the Bern" banner and buzzed her rally earlier in the day.

Talk about that "Rovian playbook!"

No class.

[Politicalboi]

68. Oh please

"And they filed out quietly when she took the stage to speak,"

Young kids getting excited over Bernie is acting poorly. Hillary can only wish she had the millennial vote in the bag.

"You kids get off my lawn"

[MADem]

69. All the little rofl-guys in the world can't gloss over the bit you didn't mention....

"....tried to drown out her intro with cheers for the democratic socialist...."

Drown out her intro, then walk out. Real classy.

Naah--just CHILDISH. The kind of thing immature people, like teens and tweens, might do.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Childish and petulant like Hillary supporters booing Bernie on his birthday:

Some classy behaviour there, very mature.

[MADem]

159. I can't see anyone in the view of that camera booing.

I hear one or two idiots but it's impossible to tell where that's coming from. There are scads of candidate groupings that he's walking through--not giving a speech--walking through. I see Fiorina signs.

But you go on and create equivalence because you clearly NEED to try to pretend these are the same things....a stroll through groupings of supporters of various candidates, and behavior at a "buy your ticket" DEMOCRATIC event supporting the IOWA Democratic Party, which is billed as a candidates' showcase so that voters can hear from ALL the candidates--not just their favorites.

[beam me up scottie]

161. Sure and you can't see Bernie and Jane up on the stage in the CSPAN video either.

So I should believe you because... reasons?

[MADem]

169. Look harder.

?uuid=4lWDiHsnEeW1ddjc_ttOoQ

Bernie Sanders and his wife, Jane Sanders, at the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner in Des Moines, Iowa, Saturday. (Daniel Acker/Bloomberg)

[beam me up scottie]

175. Are you saying the weren't on the stage after the speeches?

That's the claim in the op and you rec'd it.

[MADem]

176. No--I'm saying he turned on his heel and went to do a CNN interview, while the other two

did what every candidate does at these things--worked the crowd. That is what people pay for.

[beam me up scottie]

180. So the op was a lie and we don't need to delete our posts?

The ones who should self-delete are the ones calling the OP a liar.

[MADem]

189. He left after the speech portion of the program. He couldn't be bothered to work the crowd.

He didn't leave the BUILDING, but he went and did an interview instead of doing the meet-and-greet.

The crowd interactions by the candidates are the "main event" for most of them. HRC and O'Malley were on stage for less than fifteen minutes, but they were talking to voters for much longer--HRC was there for over an hour.

[beam me up scottie]

190. So we were right and the op was wrong, in other words.

Wow, you must be getting tired, I'm exhausted just watching you try to dig out from there.

[MADem]

191. Nope. nt

[MADem]

220. Unnnh...yes, you can. At the 1-36 mark. Bill Clinton is there, too. nt

[Autumn]

86. And Hillary's crowd sat on their hands during Bernie's speech. So who gives a fuck

They don't support her why should they stay? You seem to be missing the respect that they showed her

they filed out quietly when she took the stage to speak.

they didn't yell and boo her.

[MADem]

103. Yes they DID 'yell and boo' her--they shouted over her introduction. Or they tried to. nt

[Autumn]

105. Well that was wrong but it's the primary season after all

[MADem]

154. If Hillary's supporters booed Sanders, instead of giving him polite applause, it would have been

rehashed here as the Crime of the Fricken Century, and in your heart, you KNOW that is true.

My attitude towards their shitty behavior is "Consider the source."

[Autumn]

195. I'm not about to get my fee-fees hurt over what people in the audience at a campaign rally do.

Members of this site have been as nasty as can be toward Bernie and his supporters here and behind their hidden walls. Like you my their attitude towards shitty behavior, and posts is "Consider the source"

[MADem]

224. The point you're avoiding is that Sanders fans treated Clinton poorly at that venue; Clinton fans

did not respond in kind--they politely applauded Sanders. I'm not talking about what people, some of whom might be trolls on the internet, are doing and saying --I'm talking about real-life, identified supporters at a public event, and how they behaved when given the opportunity to express support.

One group listens politely, the other group drowns out the opposing candidate's introduction and then walks out of the venue.

It is a difference of maturity, comity, and, well, class.

IMO.

[Autumn]

231. If I were shallow and immature enough I would withdraw my support

from Bernie but I since I am a mature adult and realize I have no control over other people behavior at public events and I have no desire to control other people I don't really give a flying fuck. Their actions are so unimportant to me.

[MADem]

233. You have no control over the behavior of people on the internet, either. No one does.

People will behave as they will...or as they are instructed, if they're motivated to so do.

[Autumn]

235. Exactly so. Neither do Hillary's supporters actions

that do not include me have any impact on me or my support for Bernie. To say it does would be silliness. When the candidates political surrogates behave badly as they will ... or as they are instructed as in the case of a certain Texas politician who chose to tell a couple of silly little lies so easily disproved, that can and should be set straight. Anyway this topic bores me so I'm off to enjoy my day.

[MADem]

236. Who said they would? One CAN object to bad behavior, though. Or excuse it... nt

[Omaha Steve]

7. So this photo doesn't exist?

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/politics_and_administration/state/article_efba88c0-7ad2-11e5-b7e5-bb1b96c70bc2.html

[99Forever]

10. Oh snap.

Now you went and screwed up someone's faux outrage madz.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Ouch!

[restorefreedom]

16. that one will leave a mark. nt

[azmom]

17. Thank you Omaha Steve. That

Deserves a donation.

[NorthCarolina]

20. ...

[emulatorloo]

23. Appreciate the pic, OS!

[MADem]

43. They're standing on the stage--not sure why you think that is meaningful. They were all at the same

event. Standing on the stage (perhaps being introduced?) isn't sticking around and speaking to one another.

No one said they weren't all there. No one said there was no picture of all of them together, either.

What is the point you are making?

[Omaha Steve]

46. Your words

left without speaking to the democrats in the audience, or with the other candidates

[msrizzo]

55. He left after the event was over but...

....he didn't stay later to go through the "ropeline" (whatever that is) and smooze with the audience as Clinton and O'Malley did. I think that is the more accurate interpretation. His supporters were the ones who left early.

[MADem]

64. Those were not "my" words, Steve, and your little picture was taken at the BEGINNING of the

event--the candidates were being introduced and each one was WAVING at the crowd--not the end.

[Omaha Steve]

74. OK just so I'll know

Where is the info he left so fast at? MSM? I have only your OP to go by.

[MADem]

102. Again, Steve, this is not my thread. And the info is in the link I provided.

Sanders' supporters left the venue right after they tried to drown out her INTRO.

IIRC, he went and gave an interview to CNN after the event ended.

The last candidate to leave was Clinton-she stayed an hour after everyone else.

Bill and Hillary also were among the last people to leave the arena — they lingered on the rope line, signing books and taking selfies for close to an hour after event ended and all the other candidates had departed.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/clinton-iowa-215133#ixzz3pbmOW0eK

[Omaha Steve]

112. Thank you!

[beam me up scottie]

143. Look at the video on CSPAN. At 1:31 They welcomed ALL of the candidates back on stage.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?328787-1/presidential-candidates-jeffersonjackson-dinner

[MADem]

171. And how many went into the crowd to grip and grin? nt

[beam me up scottie]

174. Who cares? The op is a lie. Going to take back your rec now?

[MADem]

179. The event ends when the people who paid for those tickets get their piece of the candidate. nt

[beam me up scottie]

181. The op claimed he left after his speech and you rec'd it.

[MADem]

185. I didn't take the OP to mean he left after "his" speech. I took it to mean that he left after he

could politely exit from his portion of the "speech" program, which was the final family photo op. He skipped the part that the people actually come for, the grip and grin bit.

[beam me up scottie]

186. So you just spent half the day arguing with us because you were unsure about the op.

[MADem]

192. Maybe YOU spent "half a day"--this post takes seconds to type. nt

[beam me up scottie]

193. Still see your rec there. But that's good, I want everyone to remember this thread.

ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!

He ATE OUR FOOD and then left without saying goodbye!

[marym625]

251. Oh don't bother with truth!

And meeting supporters, shaking hands with supporters in the stands before the speeches, marching with supporters to the hall (a tradition for candidates to do that at the JJ dinner but Hillary didn't) doesn't count! Didn't you know that!? Silly woman! It only counts of you do it after it's over and staying for the entire event doesn't count either!

Thus spoke some people

[beam me up scottie]

253. Not Good Enough, Bernie.

Some people aren't here to support their candidate, they only care about trashing the others.

I never got overly involved with primaries until this year and this is why.

But still, Bernie's my guy and I'm here to support and defend him.

[marym625]

255. seems like every primary, it just gets worse

At some point, it becomes so obvious that the it's not about supporting for some people. It's about tearing down. And some, go from the sublime to ridiculous. Then you just have to laugh

#FeelTheBern

[merrily]

254. On the scale of zero to de-stabilizing the Middle East or economic collapse of several nations,

where would you place this cataclysmic event? I'm thinking close to zero. How about you?

[marym625]

257. absolute zero

It's not even an event. The OP is wrong and the blustering throughout is nonsensical.

[marym625]

8. Are you bothered by habitual tardiness?

Exactly how long should have he stayed after it was over? Obviously, since he took to the stage at the end, he was still there well after he spoke.

Hillary Consistently Late

[dsc]

24. She spoke last

on what planet is she responsible for the time table of this event.

[marym625]

31. on what planet is Sanders responsible for the timing of the event?

How does your response have anything to do with mine?

The OP said Sanders was rude for leaving. Since he stayed for the entire event, it's a ridiculous argument.

I haven't seen a single OP that talks about how rude it is to be keeping people waiting for an hour or longer, as Mrs. Clinton habitually does. But Sanders doesn't hang around after an event and he's rude?

It's bullshit. Just another swing at Sanders about something ridiculous because there is nothing of substance to attack

[dsc]

34. He doesn't

but you blamed Hillary for the fact the event started late and thus his supporters leaving. He isn't responsible for his supporters behavior but their behavior was bad just like the supporters of Clinton who left in New Hamshire.

[marym625]

37. Wow!

Talk about twisting things. I didn't blame her, or anyone, for anything. Absolutely ridiculous.

[MADem]

44. He obviously didn't stay to work the crowd, and that IS part and parcel of the event.

It is why people go, to press the flesh, get a selfie, etc.

What's a "swing" is organizing your supporters to walk out as your opponent is introduced. Naaah--not a swing...that's just garden variety rudeness. As is repeatedly flying a FEEL THE BERN bannered plane over a Clinton rally--that reminds me of sleazy, shitty GOP tricks, like the guy dressed as a flip flop who followed Kerry around.

Not a good look. I think someone should be feeling a little heart"bern" over how that stupid, petty little stunt makes the Sanders effort appear.

[marym625]

57. Wow!

And knowing people have already been waiting 2 hours, then being an hour or more late, that's cool! Making sure no one snaps an unauthorized picture with the candidate, VERY important!

You do know Hillary Clinton is the least accessible candidate there is, right?

I would never expect to actually speak to a candidate at these things. Hope to, yes. Expect it. Never.

Yes, you're exactly right! I was on a Bernie Sanders national organizer call on Friday. They only thing we discussed was making sure every Bernie supporter walked out right after he spoke. How did you know? And he even arranged for it to start late (conspiring with Clinton to be late but never giving a reason) as well as working with the bus company. It was all part of the evil plan.

This is tripe. And I find it hillaryious! The straws are nearly gone.

[MADem]

62. WOW! Did you know that this thread is about the JJ, not other events?

WOW! Did you?

And why would you care if she were late to a candidate - specific event?

Wow!

I mean -- WOW! -- it's obvious you don't support her, so if she's doing something you think would trouble her supporters....gee whiz, and .... errr... WOW!!! Wouldn't that help your candidate?

So what are you WOW-ing about?



The fact is, the picture being waved around here was taken during the candidate intros. Sanders' fans walked out when Clinton started speaking. Sanders knew his peeps were gone, so he LEFT.



That, to me, is where you'll find your tripe.

[marym625]

246. Wow! Such witty repartee!

You never fail to amuse me.

Such enthusiasm for a candidate you don't support. You do know this post is about Bernie Sanders, right? Since he's not your candidate, why did you even click on the post? Thirty three responses on a post about Sanders leaving early! A post which has been proven to be wrong. You must really be a Sanders supporter!

And I know, from your little lecture to me, you didn't talk about ANYTHING but Sanders leaving early! No, no, not you!  Such an advocate for truth! I'm sure in those 33 responses, at least one is an apology to the people you incorrectly stated posted incorrect information proving Senator Sanders was on the stage at the end. (sorry, I have no desire to read all 33 of your responses here. The search for "madem" to quickly find your response to me showed the number of posts by you - I'm sure you'll kindly point me to the apologies)

The Jefferson Jackson dinner has a tradition of the candidates escorting their supporters to the dinner from the rally. But Hillary broke with tradition, and didn't. I'm sure you're just broken up by that, since you're so worried about Sanders' supporters not getting their time with him. I'll gladly rec your post about how rude Hillary was to do such a thing

Not attending the march: Hillary or Bill Clinton, a break with tradition where candidates escort their supporters to the venue.

Sanders did march from across the river, firing up his raucous supporters by tying his own campaign to the history of the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner march.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/24/politics/jefferson-jackson-dinner-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-rallies/



I guess going into the crowd, shaking hands and meeting his supporters at Hyvee Hall before he spoke, doesn't count as "meeting with supporters." I hadn't realized that. Thank you so much for this further information on how rude Senator Sanders is!

Wow! Again, since you believe we should only comment on the candidates we support, I am grateful that you have schooled us here. Wow! So lucky to have you here! How else would we have our daily allowance of tripe?

Wow!

[pandr32]

9. He has always behaved this way

One of the reasons he has so few congressional endorsements is because he has not bothered to develop rapport. He has been criticized for being stand-offish. Relationships with others are necessary to get things done. Trust and friendship together make a good foundation to build things on.
His smiles seem too few and far between, too.
It bothers me that he openly discusses his appeal with some Republicans while being aloof with democrats he likely already writes off as HC supporters. He is running on the Democrat ticket...not as Independent.
He fails to show the class and grace he should as the hopeful he is to be the Democrat nominee.

[hollowdweller]

50. Sort of what I figured. He's not really that much of a politician.

I sort of see Sanders as somebody who does the right thing and is right on the issues but is not really that good at politics.

You could see that in the debates. Clinton was more animated and smiling. Sort of personalized stuff. Sanders was a lot stiffer more sort of stuck to his stump speech as a response to the questions.

Also he has a tendency to sound more angry. With reason I think, but once again probably politically not the best move.

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary, because I think he's been more consistently right on the issues than Clinton. Also I think she's a bit too hawkish. However I think Hillary is the far better schmoozer and politician which does help get things passed, where it would be harder for Sanders. Not as big of an issue in the north, but they sort of extreme yankee affect that Sanders has will be a harder sell in the south.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. You both look hilarious, the OP is purest bullshit, Sanders was there at the end with the others.

Good god, doesn't it make you feel skeevy to be such an easy mark?

[Puglover]

106. PERFECT word for OP's

like this. "Skeevy"

Christ DU isn't even close to a serious place anymore.

[pandr32]

71. I agree with your Sanders summation

...and I am sure you feel your reasons for preferring him on the primary ballot are good ones.
I also got the feeling from you that you will be willing to shift your support to Hillary if she were to become the nominee.
Have a great day!

[MohRokTah]

11. HE was scared. eom

[shraby]

12. If that bothers you, maybe you just don't like Bernie. He may have had other

pressing things to do. As far as I can see, Bernie has spoken out for years against things he sees as wrong. Why should he stop now? Because he got some food from the Dems?

[portlander23]

13. Because he's Elvis

And he has left the building.

[demmiblue]

48. !

[whatchamacallit]

18. You must be kidding

[marym625]

32. it's almost sad

If it wasn't so damn funny.

[emulatorloo]

22. Not true, and a non-starter.

[rurallib]

25. tell me this is from the Onion, please.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Please give the gentleman a break. He might have been tired...

eom

[Live and Learn]

29. Knowing Sanders, he probably was due to be somewhere else.

The man doesn't quit. He has a very full schedule.

[beam me up scottie]

30. I don't think he did, there's a picture of him standing on stage at the end upthread.

How embarrassing for the op and everyone who rec'd it.

[Live and Learn]

33. I don't think the truth embarrasses them. They will just keep reporting falsehoods

hoping they stick. The Rovian way!

[beam me up scottie]

38. True, amateur swift boating is still swift boating.

Karl would be proud of the effort.

[marym625]

35. no! Don't you understand?

He left when it was over! How dare he!

[beam me up scottie]

41. This place is looking more and more like World Nut Daily all the time.

[marym625]

42. Yep,

[beam me up scottie]

45. .

[winter is coming]

56. I guess nobody told him it was supposed to be a sleepover. n/t

[marym625]

58. he's so silly!

How does he expect to fill the venues for his rallies when he does this?

[appalachiablue]

217. +1

[TexasBushwhacker]

67. Maybe he had a flight to catch

since he doesn't have a private jet.

[dorkzilla]

95. That’s the first thing that popped into my head nt

[marym625]

250. since he didn't break with tradition, like Hillary, and escorted his supporters

To the hall, then went into the stands before the speeches, shaking hands, meeting supporters, etc., and did stay through the end, I think he was done and went home. It's all good!
But yes on the private jet too. He flies coach, takes the train, etc. Not part of the 1%

[MADem]

59. Except that's at the BEGINNING, at the candidate INTRODUCTIONS....not the END. OOOPS.

You should say you're sorry.



Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Rodham Clinton, left, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., second from right, and former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley, right, stand on stage together at the start of the Iowa Democratic Party's Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, Saturday, Oct. 24, 2015, in Des Moines, Iowa. Iowa Democratic Party chair Andy McGuire, second from left, looks on. CHARLIE NEIBERGALL — AP Photo DEM 2016

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/10/25/4052366/iowa-takeaways-sanders-ups-critique.html

[beam me up scottie]

144. Did you even watch the fucking video? They were all on stage AFTER the speeches.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?328787-1/presidential-candidates-jeffersonjackson-dinner


OOPS.

[mmonk]

39. Dishonest. You aren't bothered at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. We've all seen photos of all three at the end of the event, you should apologize for being wrong

and self delete this is a false smear on a Democratic candidate. Blatantly false and easily proven so using photos from the DNC.

[MADem]

60. Those photos were taken at the BEGINNING of the event, not the end, during the candidate intros.

The ones who should self-delete are the ones calling the OP a liar.

[Jackilope]

111. All the families and candidates were on stage at the end. It was on CSPAN.

They were all invited at the end. Bill and Jane were animatedly talking to each other and smiling.

Seriously, go to CSPAN and watch the end.

[MADem]

149. Yes, and you don't see them in that "proof" pic, do you? Because that was the INTRO.

Clinton was working the crowd an HOUR after both other candidates left.

Sanders went and did a CNN interview immediately after the "farewell waves." Most of his supporters had already bailed out by then, anyway.

[appalachiablue]

218. I saw all of it and Bernie was on stage with the others After speeches ended. Indeed Bill walked

over to Jane and talked to her for awhile. And contrary to one post, Bernie's speech wasn't under 10 mins. It lasted 24 mins. and is posted here in Full. The entire OP is untrue like posts, 'he ate OUR food and then left'!

[beam me up scottie]

148. *crickets*

The ones who should self-delete are the ones calling the OP a liar.

Did you watch the video yet?

[MADem]

150. I don't see Jane and Bill up there--that picture was taken at the BEGINNING of the event.

But hey, keep digging.

[beam me up scottie]

153. The video at CSPAN clearly shows them all up there after the event.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?328787-1/presidential-candidates-jeffersonjackson-dinner


At 1:31 they announce them.


You're going to need a bigger shovel.

[MADem]

155. The picture being waved in this thread as "proof" does not support the scenario you are

touting. There's no Jane. There's no Bill.

Sanders turned on his heel and went and did a CNN interview after the quickie wrap up on the stage.

O'Malley and Clinton worked the crowds. Clinton was there an hour after the other two left.

How's that for a shovel-ful?

[beam me up scottie]

156. The video does support the "scenario" (aka the facts) so he didn't leave after his speech.

You really shouldn't use that shovel to try to move the goal posts.

Keep digging with it instead.

[MADem]

160. He stood on the stage and then he left. He didn't work the crowd. The others did. nt

[beam me up scottie]

162. "The ones who should self-delete are the ones calling the OP a liar."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=723582

You were saying?

[MADem]

167. I took that to mean 'after the speeches'--i.e. not doing what everyone has ALWAYS done at these

events, which is give the public, especially the people in the cheap seats, a bit of the grip and grin.

Everyone KNEW he did a CNN interview ON SITE after the event concluded. It made the airwaves. He didn't bug out the door after he talked, but no one gave a shorter speech than he did, and he completely skipped the crowd interaction.

[beam me up scottie]

172. OP: "Why did Sanders leave the event after he spoke?"

Everyone KNEW he did a CNN interview ON SITE after the event concluded.

Read it again, 12 recs so clearly they didn't know that.

Nice try.

[MADem]

182. His speech was just over ten minutes HRC's and O'Malley's just under 15.

We aren't talking an interminable amount of speechifying here. The people came to take pics and shake hands--they are mostly locals, they already have the stump speeches memorized. He didn't go down in the crowd because most of his people had already left.

[beam me up scottie]

183. mmm hmmmm.

Go on.

[thesquanderer]

211. Maybe he felt that the opportunity to be on CNN at that moment was the more beneficial choice.

It is a campaign, after all. Whether it's money or time, there are always choices to be made in how you allocate resources. If he loses Iowa, maybe you can blame it in part on not hanging around this event longer. If he wins it, maybe he gained a little something by being on CNN, where presumably a lot of Iowans who were not at the event but who were following it on TV would have had an extra time to hear him. Either way, I hardly think this is something to express outrage about.

[MADem]

219. Maybe. I'm not 'expressing outrage, though.'

It just is what it is. He's welcome to do whatever he wants--it's his campaign to run as he sees fit.

I think his optics are poor in terms of his 'fan outreach,' but that's actually fine with me.

[thesquanderer]

222. Speaking of optics...

from http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/24/politics/jefferson-jackson-dinner-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-rallies/

Not attending the march: Hillary or Bill Clinton, a break with tradition where candidates escort their supporters to the venue.

Sanders did march from across the river, firing up his raucous supporters by tying his own campaign to the history of the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner march.

So maybe Sanders didn't hang after the event, but Clinton didn't do the traditional hang with supporters before the event.

Which is worse? Does either matter?

[MADem]

223. She held one helluva rally, with a musical guest.

And, regrettably, some over-enthusiastic and bone-headed Sanders supporter thought it would be "cool" to buzz the rally with an airplane with a Feel the Bern banner.



Very unsportsmanlike, that. It probably did more to secure the votes of everyone in attendance at that rallly FOR Clinton than any other strategy. No one likes an asshole.

I would say that, judging from the Clinton supporters at the JJ dinner, they didn't mind not being marched to the venue at all, and they were able to find their way--they were enthusiastic, and Out In Force.

After all, they didn't just get a march down the street looking at their candidate's backside, they got well over an hour AT the venue to interact with their candidate AFTER the event.

[thesquanderer]

225. My feeling is that neither is an issue

but if the concern is optics, the fact that HRC didn't do the "traditional" march at the begining has been reported in the news, whereas I don't think there are comparable news reports about Bernie not hanging out afterwards, so at least in terms of the number of people who are aware of each, I'd guess more people are aware of the first. But I doubt either affected anyone's choice of who they will vote for.

[MADem]

226. I don't think your assertion is accurate. The only whining I've heard about

"no traditional march" is from .... (drum roll ) .....

YOU!

[thesquanderer]

228. No whining at all. Just pointing out that it was reported on CNN.

I wouldn't have even given it a second thought when I read it, except for people here having taken BS to task for not hanging out after.

[MADem]

234. People?

One person asked a question, and that stimulated a discussion.

Why is anything even remotely "questioning" regarded as an excoriation, I wonder?

[thesquanderer]

238. You and the OP are people.

You did not "question," you disapproved.

OP: "I am bothered by the fact that he ate the democrats' food, dissed the democratic candidate, and then left without speaking to the democrats in the audience, or with the other candidates."

You: "He couldn't be bothered to work the crowd."

(I didn't re-read the whole thread, to see who else may have seen it negatively.)

[MADem]

240. People can be "perturbed" or "bothered" without necessarily coming down on the "disapproval" side

of things.

It's possible to express concern/dissatisfaction without going all the way to "disapproval."

I think you are being a bit hyper-sensitive.

Here's reality--people (all sorts of people) ARE going to occasionally not be full throated in their support of your candidate. They're going to critique, take issue with, object to, be dissatified with....these sentiments do not always rise to the level of "disapproval."

When someone says "I'd have done it another way," it is what it is.

[thesquanderer]

243. Semantics, geez.

You and the OP both reacted negatively. You're arguing now about whether what was said qualifies as disapproving? As HRC might say, what difference does it make? The shading between "he couldn't be bothered" and "disapproving" (to the extent that there is any) is irrelevant. However you want to characterize it, my only point was that there was an arguably similar behavior from Clinton. So if you don't like one, I would think you wouldn't like the other, either. That's all.

As I said, personally, I don't think this is an issue for either one of them. And I doubt either of them lost any supporters over these things.

[MADem]

245. And you reacted with a 'How DARE you CRITICIZE!!" vibe.

I mean, come off it. What you're saying is that ANY expression of a reservation is just "not OK." Nothing but pom-poms and cheerleading--or ELSE.

That's not political discussion. That's propagandizing. It's not good for democracy with a little d, at all.

Of course no one "lost any supporters" over this. At those JJ events, the supporters in attendance are by-and-large the Die Hards. Hell, even the 'bring your own sandwich' seats are fifty bucks. You've got to have some level of 'investment' in your candidate to shell that out, never mind the big money for the tables where you get the rubber chicken dinner....

[thesquanderer]

247. What the heck??

Please reread my post (#211) -- I really don't see anything remotely close to a "'How DARE you CRITICIZE!!" vibe there.

And where did this come from?

What you're saying is that ANY expression of a reservation is just "not OK." Nothing but pom-poms and cheerleading--or ELSE.

I have no idea what you're talking about with any of this.

I think you must be mixing me up with someone else.

[MADem]

248. Sorry--that came across as terribly personal and I didn't intend it that way.

I meant "you" generically--as in "Sanders supporters." It's a palpable vibe throughout this thread. And it is a repeated meme across the board.

[thesquanderer]

249. Thanks. All good. (n/t)

[Gothmog]

61. Sanders know that he will not be the nominee

[antigop]

66. add +1 to the inevitability meme counter. nt

[Gothmog]

166. Do you even care that Sanders is losing support and votes due to a lack of a good explanation

Sanders is hurting himself a great deal with a large segment of Democratic votes by not have a good explanation as to how Sanders can win in the general election. Refusing to provide such an explanation is not helping Sanders;s cause with many voters

[antigop]

212. add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt

[Live and Learn]

85. Another blatant falsehood. Don't you get tired of using Rovian tactics? nt

[MADem]

107. Unless you are Sanders, you are not capable of determining if that comment is false or not.

And calling someone "Rovian" because they don't love your candidate is a pretty lousy and uncivil thing to do.

[Live and Learn]

120. Exactly why the post I replied to is blatantly false. Neither you nor the poster I

responded to know what Sanders is thinking. I'll take Sanders word for it since he has always been hones and he says he thinks he can win.

And making shit up and saying it over and over again is a Rovian tactic and that is exactly what some here are doing.

[MADem]

163. For all you know--and you know nothing, unless you are Sanders--the two of them could have

worked this out back in January. Sanders plays the stalking horse, then late in the game, he grabs his left elbow and says he's got palpitations, and is rewarded with the Labor cabinet position.

It can't be said to be "blatantly false" unless you know--and you do NOT know. NONE of us know, unless one of us is either HRC or BS. If you think either one of them would admit to selling that bill of goods, you're being absurd--the reason these things work is because they are kept close to the vest.

And that ain't me, and I'm pretty doggone sure that ain't you, either.

[Live and Learn]

170. Pllllease... Take the tinfoil hat off.

Most ridiculous post of the day. And that is saying something!

[antigop]

213. Say "Hi" to Debbie and tell her thanks for her moment of candor! nt

[frylock]

65. LMFAO between this and the banner thread! Oh noes he ate the democrats' food!!1

try and get a fucking grip!

[beam me up scottie]

82. I heard he stuffed rolls in his pockets! And swiped the silverware too!

This thread is full of win!

[frylock]

84. Why do you suppose Bernie wears that ill-fitting jacket?

Do you have any idea how much Tupperware laden with entrees that he can spirit away?

[beam me up scottie]

87. Bwah! No wonder he left early, he's used to skipping out on the check!

That's why he eats with his interns, he steals their lunch money AND their food!

[jberryhill]

138. The man is a panda!

Eats, shoots and leaves.

[beam me up scottie]

140. LOL! Close:

[WorseBeforeBetter]

101. ...

Not a Sweet'n Low packet was left in all of Iowa... the bastid!

[beam me up scottie]

114. LMAO! The nerve of that guy! Lock up your daughters, lock up your wives!

Lock up your bagels, cream cheese and chives!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

119. Free food at the after-watch parties... stuffed chicken he lifted from the JJ dinner?!

7 p.m. Bernie 2016 Des Moines Watch Party and After-Party, Capital Square Atrium, 400 Locust Street, Des Moines
Musical guests include Wayne Kramer (MC5), Jill Sobule, Ryan Miller (Guster) and others.
Information for the public: Event is free and open to the public, but RSVPs are encouraged. Watch party is for our overflow J-J crowd and will include free food and a cash bar. After-party slated to begin at 9:30 p.m. following the conclusion of the J-J event.

Sanders campaign will also be hosting six additional J-J Watch Parties across Iowa: Davenport-With Sean Kelly of (The Samples) and Walter Schreifels (Quicksand), Cedar Falls-With Marshall Crenshaw and Lisa Kekaula & Bob Vennum from The BellRays, Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Council Bluffs, and Sioux City.

http://blog.4president.us/2016/bernie-sanders/

Cash bar, though. Guess he couldn't abscond with enough bottles of hooch!

(Wow, Hillarians really are delicate little flowers, aren't they?)

[beam me up scottie]

124. Is there nothing he won't steal? First the Democrats' food and now the after party's?

Who does this guy think he is, a Socialist???


Yes, some are fragile snowflakes, I am afraid they will melt soon.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

133. Did Hillary or O'Malley appear anywhere on the Sunday talk-show circuit this morning?

I just learned in another thread that Bernie was on CNN's State of the Union. Jaysuz, I'm 20ish years younger and just the thought of his schedule wears me out!

[beam me up scottie]

136. Damn. He must have had to be up early for that too.

I don't watch much tv but if they had appeared I assume there would be threads.

So much for Bernie being an old guy who had to go home early because he was tired.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

142. Be up, and be sharp.

He keeps an insanely full schedule. Meanwhile, I slept in, then stayed in bed to read the paper, drink chai and listen to my favorite classical station. And that's one of the many reasons I will never, ever, ever be President.

[beam me up scottie]

145. Me either, I don't sleep much but I would never be able to keep his schedule.

[Puglover]

113. I at long last put

one of my most favorite posters ever on ignore and 1/2 the thread disappeared.

If Hillary doe's win the nomination DU is gonna be tumble weeds and bullshit.

[beam me up scottie]

118. I'm going to have to try that, fake-nore isn't working.

Sure I get to lmao at everything they say but it's still annoying.

Especially when they lecture others on civility.

[Puglover]

123. THAT my friend

is the biggest cognitive disconnect on this board. Talk about being not aware of one's self.

[beam me up scottie]

128. Listening to them you'd think they were the second coming of Jesus.

But if you paid attention you'd soon realize they're just another hypocritical back room preacher, wailing about SATAN and his MINIONS on Sunday while breaking every rule in the book every other day of the week.

Holly Yule Ya!

[jberryhill]

135. And he "dissed the democratic candidate"

If Sanders is just going to go around giving the Democratic candidate a hard time, then I can see how that would be troublesome.

[DrBulldog]

73. Well, sorry you were bothered.

Especially since your candidate got slaughtered last night.

[Politicalboi]

75. "It reminded me of the things the democrats said about his behavior"

Some say.......

This is Faux News talk. Bernie doesn't have a private jet like "some". Bernie's wife is not a retired President. Bernie actually has to "work" for this, unlike some who have been anointed already. Maybe Bernie has more people who want to talk to him than "some".

[orpupilofnature57]

77. Fault finding again ? What was he and nobody else talking about ? Keep pea picking .

[Doubledee]

89. Perhaps for the same reason

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 09:18 AM - Edit history (1)

as to why the chicken crossed the road....he had to be somewhere, if ,indeed, he actually did leave as you say.

Sorry, but this seems nitpicking graduate school style.

[Hepburn]

92. This is all you have?

[MisterP]

93. "the Democratic candidate"? FUCKING EXCUSE ME? are they cancelling the primaries and not even

telling us peons?

[pinebox]

94. I'm mad because

Hillary wasn't talking about her hair. Damn it!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

116. Maybe he joined an after-watch party, for those who couldn't get tickets to the JJ dinner.

7 p.m. Bernie 2016 Des Moines Watch Party and After-Party, Capital Square Atrium, 400 Locust Street, Des Moines
Musical guests include Wayne Kramer (MC5), Jill Sobule, Ryan Miller (Guster) and others.
Information for the public: Event is free and open to the public, but RSVPs are encouraged. Watch party is for our overflow J-J crowd and will include free food and a cash bar. After-party slated to begin at 9:30 p.m. following the conclusion of the J-J event.

Sanders campaign will also be hosting six additional J-J Watch Parties across Iowa: Davenport-With Sean Kelly of (The Samples) and Walter Schreifels (Quicksand), Cedar Falls-With Marshall Crenshaw and Lisa Kekaula & Bob Vennum from The BellRays, Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Council Bluffs, and Sioux City.

http://blog.4president.us/2016/bernie-sanders/

Free food! And Marshall Crenshaw... aaaah, such better music.

[Eric J in MN]

127. Hillary Clinton left the First Democratic Debate after it was over.

Bernie Sanders stayed and talked to reporters.

Both of them don't always stick around after the main event.

[Drale]

130. Maybe

He had to poop?

[jberryhill]

132. To get to the other side?

[workinclasszero]

141. Bernie and friends were just letting

the democratic party know they are only in this for themselves.

They could give a **** about anyone else.

If their canidate doesn't win the democratic nomination they will be gone with the wind.

Good info for all democrats to know. I hope the party was paying attention

[think]

152. If you were paying attention you'd know the claim is a complete fabrication:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251723144#post143

(It might take awhile to get to post 143 and then go see the video but ALL the candidates were present at the end.)

[Warren Stupidity]

158. He had to pee.

He's 74, cut him some slack.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

177. That's what I was thinking!

He had to pee

[Vinca]

164. I imagine he stole the silverware and had to get it to a pawn shop before closing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

206. LOL!

Good gawd almighty - they're really getting desperate! NONE of their hit jobs have worked, and there's a new one almost daily, so now they'll try blatantly lying about something he didn't do.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

178. Hillary supporters are feeling the pinch

desperation?

[ronnykmarshall]

194. EE, come on.

Don't go there. That's just nuts.

[mhatrw]

197. He didn't. But nice try at a bizarre, completely untrue smear. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

198. Have some cheese with that whine -

[JackRiddler]

201. Wow, this is pathetic.

Posts this dumb do no service to the Clinton cause.

(Alerters: Note that I said POSTS this dumb. That's allowed.)

[tularetom]

202. Who fucking cares? Maybe he had to take a dump (if indeed he actually left)

It's still America, if he wants to leave the goddamn event he has a right to do so.

If it bothers you, vote for someone else in the primary. If Sanders gets the nomination, vote for someone else in the general election. Or don't.

Jeezus christ, this is juvenile. These candidates are running for POTUFS, not middle school class president.

And another thing. I don't care what ANYBODY'S supporters do. The supporters are not running for anything. So spare me the "Some kids who supported Bernie were very rude" bullshit. They're kids for chrissakes.

[bowens43]

204. stop whining....some Democrats SHOULD be bad mouthed...like hillary for instance.

[in_cog_ni_to]

210. Wrong again...

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/8o5uEOL7UZPqCfnphIFoaQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztpbD1wbGFuZTtxPTc1O3c9NjAw/

[moobu2]

221. Because Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat

matter of fact, he hates Democrats. He just uses the Democratic Party when it's useful to get him elected.

[merrily]

256. He is a Democratic candidate for President. Deal with it.

Would you have preferred Sanders run third party?

Nader gets flack for running third party; Sanders gets flack for not running third party.

Obviously, the point is, , take what the PTB tell you to take and STFU.

No thanks!

[moobu2]

260. Bernie said he was running "AS A DEMOCRAT",

Bernie is not actually a Democrat himself. He said he was running "AS A DEMOCRAT" because if he would have run a 3rd party campaign, like Ralph Nadar did, he wouldn't have had a chance. The dates coming up where Bernie will have to file as a candidate for a particular party, we will see what he does then.

[merrily]

261. Don't be silly. You cannot be a Democratic candidate for President without being a Democrat.

[moobu2]

262. Bernie Sanders is the one who said that himself

he rejected the Democratic Party nomination for U.S. Senate in 2006 and 2012. He's never been a Democrat in the past. How is that silly? Bernie is using the Democratic Party for his own purposes.

[merrily]

263. You're playing silly word games. Lincoln Chafee, who ran as a Republican all his life, was running

for President as a Democrat. Same deal. You cannot be a Democratic candidate for President without being a Democrat. Duh. Only on a message board would specious and spurious reasoning decide otherwise.

You'll forgive me if I don't reply further. Life is too short to debate nonsensical positions when something is so self-evident as you cannot run for the Democratic Presidential nomination without being a Democrat.

[moobu2]

264. Bernie Sanders said he was running "AS A DEMOCRAT"

to give his 3rd party run a legitimacy it wouldn't have had otherwise. HE SAID IT!!!!!!!!!!! lol Bernie Sanders has never been a Democrat EVER.


Lincoln Chafee registered as a Democrat a couple of years ago. Bernie Sanders never has. I see Bernie Sanders is finally moving to get on the ballot as a Democrat in his home state though it's still isn't finalized so he isn't a Democrat as of right now. He's as big a phony as his facebook polls xhowing him ahead. lol

[WDIM]

227. "dissed THE democratic candidate"

I believe there are three democratic candidates.

[MoonRiver]

230. "Low energy?"

[MrMickeysMom]

252. You know what?

Horse shit still stinks after 2 days.

[blackspade]

265. What a sad line of attack.

"He left the party early, whaaaaa!"