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Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:12 PM Oct 2015

Millenials will put their support behind a candidate they believe in

Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:54 PM - Edit history (2)

They voted FOR Obama in 2008. Obama pissed on them and their efforts the second he took office and then he wonders why they stayed home in 2012 and 2014. Bernie's got them excited again and because of a 50-year history of walking the walk they know he won't make a sharp right turn as soon as he gets the White House.

These kids aren't beholden to a political party. Many have a great disdain for BOTH major parties. I register voters at every Bernie event and in California they can vote in the Democratic Primaries if they're a registered Democrat or a registered Decline to State. By a 3:1 margin they are choosing Decline to State.

So this is it. These kids don't swear blind allegiance to any political parties, but they will throw their considerable support (the Hillary camp is making a deadly mistake in dismissing them) behind a candidate if they believe in him/her. So the lesson to the Democratic Party is to start putting up BETTER CANDIDATES because the millennials are NOT going to come out to support someone who they see as representing the status quo.

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Millenials will put their support behind a candidate they believe in (Original Post) Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 OP
Pulling them and their friends out of Bush's wars is not "pissing on them." Renew Deal Oct 2015 #1
Pulling out? aidbo Oct 2015 #4
Go check the deployment numbers in 2009 and get back to me. Renew Deal Oct 2015 #5
So.. Just the 'tip'? aidbo Oct 2015 #6
Where are those numbers? Renew Deal Oct 2015 #9
You're right! why don't those millennials appreciate it?! aidbo Oct 2015 #13
You're still missing the 2009 numbers Renew Deal Oct 2015 #42
And he said it wasn't a set number meaning troops can be deployed. JRLeft Oct 2015 #87
Wasn't he legally required to pull them out of Iraq? n/t arcane1 Oct 2015 #35
Unless he wanted to invade again. jeff47 Oct 2015 #49
Or get a new agreement Renew Deal Oct 2015 #82
Tried. Iraq said "No fucking way" (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #86
The Obama HATE is alive and well here I see. randys1 Oct 2015 #79
You better not forget it, either. It never really disappeared. It lay dormant as the economy kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #99
There are options besides the binary of "love or hate" you know Scootaloo Oct 2015 #101
Not that it matters, certain white folks didnt get exactly what they wanted randys1 Oct 2015 #102
Lots of people didn't get what they wanted. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #103
Obama has accomplished miracles, given the situation we were in and the obstruction. randys1 Oct 2015 #104
You have complaints. Of course you do, and that IS the point. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #108
not if you dont want to deal with facts reddread Oct 2015 #130
Ordering the Obama Movement to shut down was, though. Ken Burch Oct 2015 #129
There will be a revolution at some point, does the Democratic party want to be on the winning side? LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #2
When they come for me, please aim for the head... brooklynite Oct 2015 #18
When you look at history, we are falling into the traps of a lot of nations. Mainly the income LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #31
So, there'll be a discernment between the "good" 1%ers and the "bad" ones? brooklynite Oct 2015 #36
Depends on how long it takes for the revolution to happen. jeff47 Oct 2015 #54
Something is going to happen You can feel it. I felt it after the 1968 Chicago convention. Back then LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #66
That's why 'overthrowing' our own government (at least the elected functionaries) Volaris Oct 2015 #91
How close did America come to a Socialist Revolution BarackTheVote Oct 2015 #56
Get them off the sofa and away from the beer and NFL first workinclasszero Oct 2015 #71
Get them off your lawn, too. frylock Oct 2015 #120
That too lol workinclasszero Oct 2015 #121
Oh and overthrowing a democratically-elected government workinclasszero Oct 2015 #73
Oh geez, sorry. But I am old enough to remember a pretty progressive nation until a revolution LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #77
The "revolution" is to go back to before Reagan. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author Codeine Oct 2015 #118
Yes, I once wrote an OP on that, sadoldgirl Oct 2015 #3
That totally describes the millennials in my family. When jwirr Oct 2015 #76
Obama turned right with his transition team. JRLeft Oct 2015 #7
First out of the gate for his cabinet: Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #8
Worst choice kenfrequed Oct 2015 #21
And would have mobilized those volunteers Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #25
Well kenfrequed Oct 2015 #75
Let's not forget Rick Warren. arcane1 Oct 2015 #40
hmm good point kenfrequed Oct 2015 #85
I was so let down, and then the homophobe delivering the invocation. I went down the tubes for LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #61
Sounds like they ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #10
Yeah, I think you should continue to Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #12
What playbook is threatening and demanding ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #15
Isn't my way or the highway been the party strategy for years? frylock Oct 2015 #62
Start your own ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #65
It's called holding politicians accountable. That is part of voting, and it is part of a democracy. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #112
How's that ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #113
I have voted straight party line for 20 years. It has gotten me nowhere. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #114
Good for you... ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #115
I never said you shouldn't. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #116
And I never ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #117
And that exactly where this will go AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #39
It's already happening, at least on DU. arcane1 Oct 2015 #43
I'm not trying ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #55
"spoiled kids" is a complement? (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #57
I didn't say it ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #60
Your claim was that all the attacks are bad. And all these other horrible people are attacking. jeff47 Oct 2015 #63
I didn't call ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #70
The "attacking" has been in response to being shat upon and outright dismissed.. frylock Oct 2015 #64
And Hillary ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #68
I wasn't referring to you n/t arcane1 Oct 2015 #67
You know what's also poor judgement? jeff47 Oct 2015 #14
I don't think ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #23
Apparently, you value "I told you so" higher than winning. jeff47 Oct 2015 #32
How do you know ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #48
Did you notice I never said you were a boomer? jeff47 Oct 2015 #53
Nope, it's ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #58
And how does calling them "spoiled kids" fix that? jeff47 Oct 2015 #69
Hatred? ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #74
"The kids" have been losing for 30+ years. What makes you think we fear 4 more? jeff47 Oct 2015 #80
And what threat would that be? ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #88
"Do what I say, you selfish morons, or bad things will happen" jeff47 Oct 2015 #90
I didn't say bad things would happen... ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #93
Still "me generation" jeff47 Oct 2015 #97
Oh you ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #100
So, when a white guy explains what life is really like to a black woman jeff47 Oct 2015 #107
You don't get it. ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #110
Hey look! Another deflection! jeff47 Oct 2015 #122
That post of yours is ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #123
This message was self-deleted by its author ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #125
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #59
We were too small to worry about plus the older Xers seemed to trend conservative anyway TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #111
Quite a broad brush there. I know quite a few boomers who think they know everything too. arcane1 Oct 2015 #46
And that should ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #50
Well, that's because we do. Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #51
You actually think that millennials are the only people who jwirr Oct 2015 #83
I'm not ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #84
By the looks of the groups and debate parties I've been to-- eridani Oct 2015 #124
Questions For Freddie Oct 2015 #72
Who are these questions ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #78
Any one ... For Freddie Oct 2015 #105
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Oct 2015 #11
. . . Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #16
Yes Hillary is great uponit7771 Oct 2015 #17
Obama won the millennial vote by 67% in 2012.nt sufrommich Oct 2015 #19
Plus youth vote was a greater share of the electorate than 2012. The OP is obviously a lie. nt Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #22
Your numbers are misleading. Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #24
You realize Obama won in 2012 right? sufrommich Oct 2015 #28
We're talking about how many millennials Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #52
"Less of them came out to vote in 2012 as compared to 2008" Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #30
How 'bout this: jeff47 Oct 2015 #33
18-24 Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #37
And how does that change the fact that turnout dropped? jeff47 Oct 2015 #44
That's 19 percent of all voters, not all millennials n/t arcane1 Oct 2015 #47
Did you think the ones who bothered to show up would vote for Romney? jeff47 Oct 2015 #38
"Obama pissed on them and their efforts the second he took office" Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #20
What need for ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #26
Greater share of the electorate != greater turnout. jeff47 Oct 2015 #34
Turnout was about the same according to this study: Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #41
Because 58% and 51% are generally considered "roughly the same". jeff47 Oct 2015 #45
They love that Bernie stated climate change azmom Oct 2015 #27
So true, younger generations are far less partisan than older generations. They vote for ISSUES sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #81
you're damn right retrowire Oct 2015 #89
Revolutions don't happen overnight Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #92
great quote and very true. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #96
Revolution will seem impossible until it's suddenly inevitable. winter is coming Oct 2015 #109
Young wolves, show us your teeth. John Steinbeck Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #95
If Clinton is the nominee, some millennials will skip voting. MineralMan Oct 2015 #98
The fact that Mellinnials are not party loyalists could turn politics on its head. The reason liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #106
So basically the message is "Vote Sanders or we'll Codeine Oct 2015 #119
Posts like this show why Bernie will never win the black vote ecstatic Oct 2015 #126
Excuse me? If he criticizes Obama he loses the black vote? So if we have a black liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #127
No. Trolls and folks with ODS have used Bernie to bash Obama for years ecstatic Oct 2015 #128
 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
4. Pulling out?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:23 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/world/asia/obama-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON — President Obama halted the withdrawal of American military forces from Afghanistan on Thursday, announcing that the United States will keep thousands of troops in the country through the end of his term in 2017 and indefinitely prolonging the American role in a war that has already lasted 14 years.
 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
13. You're right! why don't those millennials appreciate it?!
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:51 PM
Oct 2015
The current American force in Afghanistan of 9,800 troops will remain in place through most of 2016 under the administration’s revised plans, before dropping to about 5,500 at the end of next year or in early 2017, Mr. Obama said. He called it a “modest but meaningful expansion of our presence” in that country.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
49. Unless he wanted to invade again.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:43 PM
Oct 2015

The agreement W negotiated required the US withdrawal.

Obama either had to follow that agreement, or invade and topple the government again.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
99. You better not forget it, either. It never really disappeared. It lay dormant as the economy
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:53 PM
Oct 2015

turned around and the number on jobs and the deficit improved...albeit slowly.

They were waiting for the one thing that would grant them permission to come out in full force. GITMO almost gave that permission but they understood that the GOP was actually the cause of it not being shutdown.

Right now, this is the best they can do since TPP is really not clearly understood by many and there is a chance that it might improve international trade and economy. Everyone who has something to say negatively about it bases their comments on what they "heard" about it or excerpts of out of context text.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
101. There are options besides the binary of "love or hate" you know
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:27 PM
Oct 2015

Especially given that we're talking about, you know, a politician.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
102. Not that it matters, certain white folks didnt get exactly what they wanted
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:29 PM
Oct 2015

from the man and that is that.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
103. Lots of people didn't get what they wanted.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:38 PM
Oct 2015

On various issues. And last I was aware, these people are all entitled to complain about their dissatisfaction. Do you see this administration as flawless? Free of any valid complaint?

randys1

(16,286 posts)
104. Obama has accomplished miracles, given the situation we were in and the obstruction.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:39 PM
Oct 2015

I have lots of complaints against all capitalist politicians, that isnt the point.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
108. You have complaints. Of course you do, and that IS the point.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:53 PM
Oct 2015

People are allowed to complain when they are dissatisfied with a politician's performance. This doesn't mean that they "just hate" that politician, any more than agreement means they're "fanboys."

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
130. not if you dont want to deal with facts
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:50 AM
Oct 2015

just pushing buttons is about all they can do.
no lives matter.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
129. Ordering the Obama Movement to shut down was, though.
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 06:58 AM
Oct 2015

So was listening to Rahm and reducing the agenda from transformation and mobilization to transactio and demobilization. Getting t he votes of the young and then treating them like they no longer mattered and were no longer needed was, too.

And it's basically the reason we got hosed in 2010 and 2014.

The lesson is...enthusiasm must always be stoked and midterms are always about firing up the base.

There were achievements, there were gains, good was done...but the moment was lost.

It's only because of Occupy and Bernie's campaign that any of the young are still involved.

brooklynite

(94,679 posts)
18. When they come for me, please aim for the head...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:05 PM
Oct 2015

...I've been hearing this line for years; get back to me when it's scheduled.

LiberalArkie

(15,727 posts)
29. When you look at history, we are falling into the traps of a lot of nations. Mainly the income
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:15 PM
Oct 2015

inequality, unemployment and the people who don't show up because they gave up, wage stagnation of everyone who is not near the top. Sooner to later something will happen, it almost did with Occupy.

Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
54. Depends on how long it takes for the revolution to happen.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:52 PM
Oct 2015

A political revolution like the Reagan revolution will.

A violent revolution like the French revolution won't.

The longer you hold off the former, the more likely the latter becomes.

LiberalArkie

(15,727 posts)
66. Something is going to happen You can feel it. I felt it after the 1968 Chicago convention. Back then
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:10 PM
Oct 2015

was only young boys being sacrificed to the alter. Now unless you are on the Wall Street good ol boys list you are S.O.L. I think the Wall Streeters have let the greed go for too long to reign it back easily.

I think it was interesting that the pharma guy that raised the price of his drug said he would lower the price after the rebuke from HRC. And naturally he evidently never intended to do it anyway.


Good Point Jeff.

Volaris

(10,274 posts)
91. That's why 'overthrowing' our own government (at least the elected functionaries)
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:17 PM
Oct 2015

every 2 years was written into the Users Manual for the USA.

Those guys weren't stupid, they knew that if not allowed to engage in peaceful political adjustments, the people would turn themselves into the Angry Mob and get the same results by decidedly LESS peaceful means.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
56. How close did America come to a Socialist Revolution
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:54 PM
Oct 2015

in the 1920s, before the New Deal started to kick in? Now these corporatists are making the same mistakes and opening themselves up to the same type of public retribution FDR feared and made every effort to stop by giving the people what they needed. When the revolution comes, it won't be the Cliven Bundy's of the US instigating it--it'll be Anonymous and Lizard Squad; from the ghettos to the university campuses. Students have been on the front lines of virtually every major revolution since the Enlightenment. The slack-jawed, gun-loving yokels will be too busy weeing themselves in their doomsday bunkers to be involved. But when people are pushed too hard, they push back. It's already started in certain black communities, and the civic unrest will spread unless some equality is injected back into this system and the wealthy are held accountable for their abuses. This isn't politics as usual; we need an FDR who will put the government firmly on the side of the people, rather than against them.

(I'm not saying revolution is good or right, but the indicators are popping up left and right. To dismiss it out of hand is to turn a blind eye to the history regarding times like these.)

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
121. That too lol
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:24 PM
Oct 2015

But it's a fact that the young hardly vote.

I know....this time it's different. We will see soon enough.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
73. Oh and overthrowing a democratically-elected government
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:27 PM
Oct 2015

is a coup d'état is it not?

Ill fuckin pass thanks.

LiberalArkie

(15,727 posts)
77. Oh geez, sorry. But I am old enough to remember a pretty progressive nation until a revolution
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:40 PM
Oct 2015

came when a new president took over in 1981. I guess I was wrong. Memory is one of the first things to go.

Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #2)

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
3. Yes, I once wrote an OP on that,
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:21 PM
Oct 2015

but that was cut down very quickly.

There are more millennials than baby boomers now in
the country, and most of the liberal ones are Bernie supporters.

I don't think that they will vote for HRC, because to them she
is same old, same old.

It appears that the party does not care that they could be
lost to the democratic party. It is doing so at its own peril.
JMO

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
76. That totally describes the millennials in my family. When
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:38 PM
Oct 2015

one of us elders talk about voting for Hillary if she is the nominee they look at us and say, "We will see." They are looking at issues not what gender should be next.

And they are not stupid. They have been education each other on-line for years now.

And I am afraid that one of our regular posters has it right - they are not ready to setter for second best.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
8. First out of the gate for his cabinet:
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:42 PM
Oct 2015

Rahm Emmanuel. That told me EVERYTHING I need to know.

ETA: His transition team made me nervous because there was still a chance he wouldn't go completely Third Way. With Emmanuel I knew where we were headed.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
21. Worst choice
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:09 PM
Oct 2015

I punched a wall when I found out about it back in late 2008.

Too many goddamned third way bastards.

Rahm and his crowd basically murdered the energy and enthusiasm for the Obama administration and squandered the potentials for volunteerism that would have helped stand up for good policy and against the tea party sorts.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
25. And would have mobilized those volunteers
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:12 PM
Oct 2015

for 2010, 2012 and 2014 and the Democrats would have gained seats in both houses. They certainly wouldn't have lost the House.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
75. Well
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:38 PM
Oct 2015

It would have been harder to hold onto the house even if Rahm had not been COS. The Republicans had been seizing the statehouses and gerrymandering like crazy.

But we would have gotten a lot more done and we could have opposed them ore effectively. I mean, the energy was there. Imagine the energy of the occupy movement channeled into specific political action.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
40. Let's not forget Rick Warren.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:30 PM
Oct 2015

I had never heard of him (or remembered him) until Obama's inauguration. That was the first example of Obana's toxic version of "compromise", and I don't think the 3rd-wayers even WANTED the Dems to control both the White House and Congress.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
85. hmm good point
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:52 PM
Oct 2015

The third way Democrats needed the Republican party in order to retain relevance. It might have been the reason so many idiotic conservative Democrats gave fillibuster cover to the innumerable Republican fillibusters in President Obama's first two years.

The Third way sorts and blue dogs needed to have something resembling a republican party in order to triangulate with and assure their position of power as the deal makers while pulling in money.

A weak or decimated republican party leaves you with a lot of progressives asking why things arent getting done and beating up corporatists. Any Blue Dogs or corporate Democrats in blue districts suddenly have to start worrying about primary challenges.

LiberalArkie

(15,727 posts)
61. I was so let down, and then the homophobe delivering the invocation. I went down the tubes for
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:01 PM
Oct 2015

awhile. Back on Prozac for a year after having been off for 15 years.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
10. Sounds like they
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:45 PM
Oct 2015

have poor judgment. The millenials were so sure Obama was their hope and that didn't turn out to well for them - why should anyone trust their judgment now? Guess what - Bernie is just a man and politician not a savior.

And you're right about one thing...they are kids, threatening to take their wagon and go home if they don't get their way, just like they did in 2008. They got their way, Obama was elected and they immediately started stomping their feet because he wasn't what they THOUGHT he was. They will do the same to Sanders the first time he lets them down and he will.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
12. Yeah, I think you should continue to
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:51 PM
Oct 2015

dismiss them and denigrate them. What is that from the "slash-and-burn" political playbook? I think I missed that chapter. I thought politics was about getting as much support as you can. I would think downplaying and denigrating the largest generation in American history is probably not a smart move. But carry on.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
15. What playbook is threatening and demanding
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:01 PM
Oct 2015

it's their way or the highway from? I don't give blind allegiance to anyone either - who was denigrating others with that comment?

I won't kiss their asses for support for anyone or any thing.

They are welcome to their revolution. I bet it will be quite something.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
62. Isn't my way or the highway been the party strategy for years?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:01 PM
Oct 2015

"Who are liberals going to vote for hahaha?!" Does that sound familiar at all?

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
65. Start your own
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:06 PM
Oct 2015

party.

I've never said that. I vote for the Democratic nominee except in 2008 I wrote in Hillary since Obama was going to carry my state.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
114. I have voted straight party line for 20 years. It has gotten me nowhere.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:50 PM
Oct 2015

The politicians know they don't have to work for the vote. They can sit on their hands, do nothing, blame the other party, and sit back and collect fat checks. How is that working for you? It's not working for me, so I intend to change how I vote.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
39. And that exactly where this will go
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:29 PM
Oct 2015

Her supporters will begin attacking millennials with 'you kids get off my lawn' crap, the same thing they attacked Obama with in 2008.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
43. It's already happening, at least on DU.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:31 PM
Oct 2015

When you can't win attacking Bernie's policies, start attacking the people who vote for him.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
55. I'm not trying
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:52 PM
Oct 2015

to win anything. I think the Sanders supporters have done their share of attacking. They can dish it out but sure can't take any disagreement.

I like Sanders fine. He's done some questionable things but that's the nature of politicians.

Speaking of attacking supporters, Hillary's supporters have been attacked at least as much as Sanders supporters and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
60. I didn't say it
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:00 PM
Oct 2015

was. I didn't intend for it to be just like many things the Sanders supporters have said about Hillary supporters weren't intended to be compliments.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
63. Your claim was that all the attacks are bad. And all these other horrible people are attacking.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:05 PM
Oct 2015

So either you are also a horrible person for attacking, or you're being a tad hypocritical.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
70. I didn't call
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:18 PM
Oct 2015

anyone horrible. I may very well be horrible - that's my burden to bear along with a number of other burdens.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
64. The "attacking" has been in response to being shat upon and outright dismissed..
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:05 PM
Oct 2015

even before Sanders announced, we were called a bunch delusional fools living in a fantasy land. Gosh, who wouldn't take exception to that characterization? You can't even reference Hillary's congressional record, or post her own fucking words without her supporters losing their shit, but we're to just take these insults lobbed at us in stride. Fuck that shit.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
68. And Hillary
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:12 PM
Oct 2015

supporters were called many unflattering things, not that I care. I didn't call you delusional fools so I don't know what you are referencing.

I've seen a lot of shit losing on both sides. I don't have the energy to lose my shit.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
14. You know what's also poor judgement?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015

An attitude of "fuck those kids and their stupid dreams".

You need their votes, or you lose. It really is that simple. There are not enough liberal boomers left for you to win without "the kids".

So, get off your fucking high horse and actually help us make a better world.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
23. I don't think
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:09 PM
Oct 2015

it's me on a fucking high horse. Millennials seem to think they know everything but life has a way of fixing that. Dreams are fine but reality is what we live. I heard all of this before in 2007-2008.



jeff47

(26,549 posts)
32. Apparently, you value "I told you so" higher than winning.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:20 PM
Oct 2015

Which is not at all surprising. It's exactly how people like you drove away my generation (GenX).

Again, there are not enough liberal boomers left for you to win. You either need to appeal to "the kids", or you lose. Ranting about how awful "the kids" are is not going to cut it.

Do you want to win, or do you want to feel superior? Pick one.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
48. How do you know
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:42 PM
Oct 2015

if I'm a boomer or not?

I don't try to appeal to spoiled kids. I'm not the one who started "the kids" comments..that was the OP.

If the kids can do it all by themselves they don't need my agreement. They're going to vote how they want and I'll vote how I want. If they are willing to see a Republican win that's on them...we know how that will work out.


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
53. Did you notice I never said you were a boomer?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:49 PM
Oct 2015

Apparently not.

If they are willing to see a Republican win that's on them

Again, basic math. There are not enough liberal Boomers left for a Democrat to win without the millennials.

The older half of Boomers skew liberal, the younger half skew conservative. So the liberal ones are "leaving the voting pool" first. That leaves the younger boomers who created the Tea Party (along with older GenX).

So you either have to give a damn about the "spoiled kids", or you have to be willing to see a Republican win.

Apparently, you are choosing the latter.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
58. Nope, it's
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:57 PM
Oct 2015

only apparent in your mind. If Sanders wins the nomination, I'll vote for him. I'm not the one threatening to not vote for the Democratic nominee...that would be the kids.

And you certainly insinuated I am a boomer and I think you know that.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
69. And how does calling them "spoiled kids" fix that?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:18 PM
Oct 2015

You need their vote. You will lose without it.

So either you have to be willing to lose, or you have to do something about them not turning out.

You continue to chose losing over finding out what they want.

And you certainly insinuated I am a boomer and I think you know that.

Again, I never made a reference to your age. I made a reference to your posts and your utter hatred of "the kids" for daring to have an opinion other than yours.

Here's your choice: Suck it up and finally start paying attention to "the kids", or lose.

You've picked the latter. Enjoy your cat food.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
74. Hatred?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:27 PM
Oct 2015

Oh good grief - spare me the histrionics.

If they cause me to lose they lose right there with me. The cat dish will be crowded.

I paid attention in 2008 and saw them turn on Obama in a heartbeat. They want Bernie this go round for their revolution and they will turn on him the first time they don't like something he does or doesn't do to suit them.

If they want to be listened to they should try talking like adults and quit threatening. I don't take to threats.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
80. "The kids" have been losing for 30+ years. What makes you think we fear 4 more?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:44 PM
Oct 2015

Again, your lack of giving a damn about "the kids" has resulted in decades of pain and loss. You talking about 4 more years of suffering is not going to work.

We already know there's a mountain of shit to clean up. We've known the mountain was there for decades. We kept pointing it out, and kept being ignored because you didn't need our votes to win.

A few more turds on the pile does not really matter. It will still be a mountain of shit to clean up and we'll be cleaning it for decades to come.

If they want to be listened to they should try talking like adults and quit threatening. I don't take to threats.

Yet here you are, issuing threats and insults.

If it won't work on you, why do you think it will work on everyone else?

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
88. And what threat would that be?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:57 PM
Oct 2015

None. You think you're the only ones to experience pain and loss and have a shit pile to clean up?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
90. "Do what I say, you selfish morons, or bad things will happen"
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:13 PM
Oct 2015

It's the theme of every post of yours in this thread.

You think you're the only ones to experience pain and loss and have a shit pile to clean up?

Can't get out of "Me generation" mode, can you?

"The kids" were not needed for a winning coalition. Liberal boomers and FDR democrats could still win elections without them.

So when we complained about high tuition, it was ignored.
When it came time to make a deal with the Republicans to "save" Social Security from Gingrich, it was programs for "the kids" that were sacrificed.
It wasn't us that slashed our school funding - we were the students.
It wasn't us that decided to try and out-tough the Republicans on crime and ramp up the drug war.
It wasn't us that decided "the kids" were lazy moochers that didn't deserve a safety net.

So where did that end up? GenX will be the first generation in US history to die worse off economically than their parents. And no, there is not enough time to undo the decades of neglect.

But to bring this back to the entire point of the thread: There aren't many FDR Democrats left. Liberal boomers are also declining. So you need "the kids" to win. And "the kids" are already fucked, so "you'll be fucked" is not much of a threat.

So you either need to find out what they want, or you will lose. I'd prefer the former, but your track record clearly demonstrates you will do the latter.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
93. I didn't say bad things would happen...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:39 PM
Oct 2015

I was told I would be eating cat food.

I had to quit college because tuition almost tripled. I didn't vote for the asshole who slashed the school budget. I didn't ramp up the drug war...I smoked pot and hash for years. I want Social security strenghtened and increased, too. I'm not old enough for it yet. And I'm worse off than my parents.

I didn't say you would be fucked, that's what the millenials are saying.

You can't seem to get out of the me mode. I've said little about me until now but the millenials are doing the whining and crying about about their woes. If you want to hear a me mode I can accommodate you.

I've read what they want. Have they listened and cared about what anyone else wants? I don't think so. It's a two way street.

You don't know shit about my track record...this thread started out with threats from a millenial. I responded to those threats.

I won't vote for someone in the primary that I don't believe can win in the general. If he wins in the primary, I'll vote for him in the GE. If that's not good enough I don't know what to tell you.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
97. Still "me generation"
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:43 PM
Oct 2015
I had to quit college because tuition almost tripled.

It's not about what you, individually did. It is about what your cohort did to mine, and is doing to millennials.

In other words, it finally isn't about you. And you just can't understand that.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
100. Oh you
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:19 PM
Oct 2015

poor, poor thing. If you want to see the me generation go look in the mirror.

Does your generation ever take any responsibility for anything or see what previous generations were handed? Look at the generation that was handed the great depression, WW2 and the holocaust or the generation handed the Vietnam war, the cold war and Kent State. Every generation has inherited shit. I've never thought it was about me - the government has lied to me my whole life and it lied to my parents their whole life.

No president is going to change the world...not even Bernie. He had to be shamed into trying to change the VA and it's still a mess.

I don't have a cohort, just basically two choices for president and I choose the one I think can win the GE. The thought of a President Trump gives me shivers.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
107. So, when a white guy explains what life is really like to a black woman
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:43 PM
Oct 2015

do you think that's a good thing?

You think that's the only "doesn't get it" scenario?

Does your generation ever take any responsibility for anything or see what previous generations were handed?

Well, yours doesn't.

Again, you guys created the first generation in all of US history that will be worse off than its parents. You immediately turn to talking about events in the 1960s, and nothing after the mid 70s.

40 years went by after that. It was the era when your generation actually started voting and dominating the electorate. Yet you got nothing to point to in that 40 years?

I've never thought it was about me

Which is why every single post of yours in this thread is about you, and how much better you are than the whiny, spoiled kids.

No president is going to change the world...not even Bernie. He had to be shamed into trying to change the VA and it's still a mess.

And the fact that you think this is a good argument demonstrates you really don't get it.

I don't have a cohort, just basically two choices for president and I choose the one I think can win the GE. The thought of a President Trump gives me shivers.

But it isn't about you.

You do not get it, and you are not at all interested in understanding it. You are entirely motivated by fear. You are terrified of the Republicans. And that fear is why your generation failed when you got the reigns of power. Instead of making anything better, you sought to make things only a little worse. Over and over again, just give up a little bit, and the issue won't come up again.

But one thing ignoring us for 30 years has done is taught us patience. If you make us wait, we'll just clean up the slightly larger mess later.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
110. You don't get it.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:47 PM
Oct 2015

It's not all about you and millenials. Get out of your poor me bubble and see how other people live like the Mexicans.

Maybe if you actually read what I wrote it would be helpful. You're the one talking about yourself and what a terrible world we handed you.

Yeah, there's plenty to point to in those 40 years if the constant stress of the previous years aren't enough which included a president being assassinated, MLK and Bobby Kennedy being assassinated.

Interest rates so high cars were unaffordable (20+%), Grenada, the Gulf war, Watergate, another president being shot, the Iran hostages, AIDS, John Lennon assassinated, Ethiopian famine, space shuttle explodes, Mt. St. Helen erupts, Exxon Valdez spill, Black Monday, hurricane Andrew, Waco, 2 week government shutdown, TWA FLight 800 explosion, etc. Need I go on?You don't think all that took a toll?

We weren't terrified, we were fucking exhausted but YOU don't get it because you don't understand jack shit.


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
122. Hey look! Another deflection!
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 11:19 PM
Oct 2015

What a surprise.

Yeah, there's plenty to point to in those 40 years

Yet you failed to point to anything.

if the constant stress of the previous years aren't enough which included a president being assassinated, MLK and Bobby Kennedy being assassinated.

Weren't you just arguing how much tougher your generation is?

Interest rates so high cars were unaffordable (20+%), Grenada, the Gulf war, Watergate, another president being shot, the Iran hostages, AIDS, John Lennon assassinated, Ethiopian famine, space shuttle explodes, Mt. St. Helen erupts, Exxon Valdez spill, Black Monday, hurricane Andrew, Waco, 2 week government shutdown, TWA FLight 800 explosion, etc. Need I go on?You don't think all that took a toll?

And you failed to fix any of that. You failed to even try to. And seriously, Flight 800? THAT is an event that totally rendered your generation unable to fight back against Reagan's revolution?

Again, we're used to waiting. If we have to wait a little longer, so be it. We'll be here.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
123. That post of yours is
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:10 AM
Oct 2015

irrational. Shame on us for not raising John Lennon from the dead and not preventing Mt. St. Helen from erupting. And sure, that's what I said - the airline explosion all by itself, without the other years of stressers was too much.

You go ahead and think your poor little generation has it tougher than any other and we'll continue to live our lives while ya'll whine. We're used to it.

Bye. Go mischaracterize everything someone else says.

Response to jeff47 (Reply #122)

Response to jeff47 (Reply #32)

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
111. We were too small to worry about plus the older Xers seemed to trend conservative anyway
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:11 PM
Oct 2015

There were also still a good a among of "Greatest" and "Silent" to depend on too. Dole ran in 96.

This time though the math is very different and the shitpile is miles higher.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
124. By the looks of the groups and debate parties I've been to--
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:13 AM
Oct 2015

--its Millennials and their grandparents.

For Freddie

(79 posts)
72. Questions
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:23 PM
Oct 2015

NOT criticism.
1. Beyond the schmutz about not funding the huge defense spending for Israel, what are Bernie's true FEELINGS about Israel? He is Jewish. He has a good heart. These are HIS people. Rahm was the same way where his HEART and family history was.
He does what he is told. I have not found any information about this on Bernie yet. The true policy. Just the de- funding the defense spending. And fat chance on that with McCrazy pushing the boundaries until he cashes in. So... this has some Pro-Israel possibility we are yet to see openly? And is the policy of defunding or reducing defense spending for Israel a reality that could EVER be implemented in the next 8 years? Or is it just a good sounding
thing to say knowing it is not a reality?

2. Gun Control-What is his plan? The Whole Plan. This is questionable when there is not a policy or plan openly outlined. A complete plan. True feelings about this? Here is a trade off Bernie had to make in his state. This is troubling.

3. Immigration- Again what's the plan? How will this work under Bernie. And then there is Black Lives Matter. There is tension in these issues. Where is his HEART in this? Can he put forth specific policy and plan in these issues?

All 3 of these issues are connected to Israeli policy. And Loyalty to Israel. Protection of Israel. I am NOT anti-Israel, just the outdated dysfunctional Zionist policies they keep playing over and over again.That causes so much Heart ache for everyone. So I just want to know. What's the Plan for all of this? What are Bernie's Solutions?

If Bernie came out openly and stated plan and policy that totally smoked Hillary THEN we would see he is truly MORE than pulling the whole narrative to the Left, to proceed in a more realistic path for the future. Which may be his true historic role in all of this.And in itself a great service to all of us.

Bernie is the first person who has openly stated anything close to the New Deal these kids have ever heard in their lifetime. Preparing for a global future of greater balance out of the schlock of Ray-Gun fugazi trickle down bullshit.

Bernie is the first person NOT assassinated for being open about these needs, feelings and the path it must follow for social and economic justice running for President. THAT in itself is somewhat revolutionary. Pulling everything to the Left, finally burying all of the dysfunctional muck of the Ray Gun economic policy.Which was just knee jerk anti FDR New Deal.

The fact Bernie has the kids is a GOOD thing. But the Kids don't seem to understand where there is great power and great money there is also great manipulation of narrative. ANYONE running for president is only allowed to do so by making deals, no matter what they say. That is real life. Read History. I have been around since Truman. NO ONE IS PERFECT.

So... We need to know about Bernie and Israel, Bernie and Guns and Bernie and Immigration. 3 issues VERY central to Israeli
Zionist policy. Where IS Bernie on Zionism? On WORKING with Israel? What are his feelings for Israel?

If he wasn't so far Left and so vocal about Social/Economic Justice
the questions about Israel would have been front and center.
But the kids are just so thankful to hear ANYTHING about Economic and Social Justice they seem to over look these issues. Any other Jewish candidate would have been roasted and discarded by now. And remember, only Momo Giancana delivered W. Virginia to old Joe K. so we had our first Catholic President.

Bernie needs to clear the Israeli issue and the ones so precious to them to keeping America fearful and empathetic, NOT questioning and doubting them. Those issues of fear are Unconditional Support for Israel (fear), Immigration (fear), Guns (fear). Even if defense funding "appeared" to be defunded, there will always be black bag ops and organized crime to continue the muck that is ongoing.

As to the perfection of Obama. The Dude is human and NO president, even Bernie, will have complete control of the Military Industrial Complex. Real World stuff for now. In the future that is a big thing to work on and change. And change on Planet Earth comes slowly to human thought and populations. Climate Change may light a fire under asses , hopefully.

It isn't what Bernie says that is in ALL of our Hearts, it is what HE will do if elected. He is providing a sacred and valuable service just in BEING and saying what he is saying pulling everything to the Left for the future, and finally out of the muck and lies and corruption of the Sacred Daddy, Ray-Gun. And poor Ronnie was just a tool too.

Every president is compromised. Always was.
Deals must be made, trade offs made. The world economy runs on the Organized Crime model, with private sit downs.
All the freedom democracy stuff is out front. The real deals go down behind closed doors. And those who do not go easy, go hard.
If not there is always the heart attack, plane crash option.
So... time to discuss among ourselves all of this.
I, myself, am verklempt about the uncertainty in this.
And if you are all going to flame me that is ok.
I feel these are answers many of us are looking for.
If these could be answered in real life terms, then Bernie
could "win".

For Freddie

(79 posts)
105. Any one ...
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:39 PM
Oct 2015

who can answer them intelligently without feeling threatened.
A lot of us really want to know the answers.
These are the only flaws in Bernie where he doesn't walk the walk.
Why?
Or heard him address them in detail.
I have been beaten up by elections for decades.
So I am not going to jump and get all excited or full of hope for
anyone. If these issues can be cleared openly then it COULD
flip the whole election.
Right now if someone seems too good to be true, usually they are.
And this is NOT pro Hillary or pro anyone.
This is just wanting more information given in a grounded adult way
without too much emotion.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
24. Your numbers are misleading.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:10 PM
Oct 2015

That's 67% of he millennials who came out to vote, not 67% of millennials. Less of them came out to vote in 2012 as compared to 2008 which backs up my statement that they won't send money to, campaign for, or vote for someone they feel is part of the status quo and especially one who they feel betrayed them. They won't fall for that again.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
30. "Less of them came out to vote in 2012 as compared to 2008"
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:15 PM
Oct 2015

Where are you getting your numbers from?

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
37. 18-24
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:28 PM
Oct 2015

What about the other millennials who were eligible to vote in 2012?

From Huffington:

NEW YORK -- Young voters represented a greater share of the national electorate Tuesday than four years ago, once again voting for President Barack Obama by a huge margin, boosting his reelection.

Voters from ages 18 to 29 represented 19 percent of all those who voted on Tuesday, according to the early National Exit Poll conducted by Edison Research. That's an increase of one percentage point from 2008. Obama captured 60 percent youth vote, compared with Mitt Romney's 36 percent.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/youth-vote-2012-turnout-exit-polls_n_2086092.html

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
44. And how does that change the fact that turnout dropped?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:32 PM
Oct 2015

Making up a larger percentage of the people who vote did not mean turnout went up.

The age distribution of the population isn't constant. You are treating it as if it is constant, in order to use "percentage of the electorate" to show a higher turnout.

"Youth" turnout went down between 2008 and 2012. At the same time, more older voters did not show up at the polls in 2012. Probably for the obvious reason. That means the lower "youth" turnout was a larger percentage of the electorate.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
38. Did you think the ones who bothered to show up would vote for Romney?
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:28 PM
Oct 2015

We didn't exactly give millennials a choice. And turnout among young voters went down by 7% compared to 2008.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
20. "Obama pissed on them and their efforts the second he took office"
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:08 PM
Oct 2015

Do you even bother to check the facts?

The Millennial vote in 2012 was a greater share of the electorate than 2008 and the majority for Obama again:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/youth-vote-2012-turnout-exit-polls_n_2086092.html

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. Greater share of the electorate != greater turnout.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:26 PM
Oct 2015

You're comparing two different sets.

The electorate got younger in 2012.
At the same time, young voter turnout went down by about 7% compared to 2008.

The population, and its age distribution, aren't constant. You are treating them as if they are.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
41. Turnout was about the same according to this study:
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:30 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/study-youth-vote-was-decisive-083510

Study: Youth vote was decisive
By Kevin Robillard
11/07/12 01:03 PM EST


Mitt Romney would have cruised to the White House had he managed to split the youth vote with Barack Obama, according to an analysis released Wednesday.

Obama easily won the youth vote nationally, 67 percent to 30 percent, with young voters proving the decisive difference in Florida, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio, according to an analysis by the Center for Research and Information on Civic Learning and Engagement at Tufts University. Obama won at least 61 percent of the youth vote in four of those states, and if Romney had achieved a 50-50 split, he could have flipped those states to his column, the study said.

About half of all eligible people ages 18-29 voted in Tuesday’s election, roughly the same level as 2008, according to Peter Levine, the center’s director. The youth vote’s share of the electorate actually increased slightly from 18 percent to 19 percent. In total, 22 million-23 million young people voted, according to the analysis.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/study-youth-vote-was-decisive-083510

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
45. Because 58% and 51% are generally considered "roughly the same".
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:34 PM
Oct 2015

Still doesn't mean turnout was the same.

And again, a larger percentage of the electorate just means fewer older voters showed up. Probably for the obvious reason.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
81. So true, younger generations are far less partisan than older generations. They vote for ISSUES
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:46 PM
Oct 2015

and pay a lot more attention now to the records of those asking for their votes. After learning how important that is.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
89. you're damn right
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:02 PM
Oct 2015

I'm 27, always thought of myself as an independent, and I only registered as a democrat to vote for Bernie.

If this doesn't work out, then I think I'll just screw off and let all the assholes have their establishment.

if Hillary wins then it will literally be more of the same. it will confirm the fear that I used to have before Bernie inspired me. if my fear is confirmed, it may be irreparable damage. and I don't doubt millions of others in my generation feel the same.

I keep saying i'll vote Hillary if she wins because its better than nothing... but voting the lesser of two evils is what kept me the fuck out if politics and sometimes I think I'll be damned before I play the establishments game. I get so angry thinking about it that I imagine just sitting home on election day and letting the world burn.

but I know I shouldn't. realistically, I'll probably bitch and moan my way to the polls, begrudgingly vote for Hillary and then throw in the towel until another Bernie dares to try again.

if Bernie wins though... my spirit will be so encouraged and elated that a true underdog won, that I would be so vindicated in my optimism that I'll become more politically active than ever before.

but if the establishment wants to control information and power to their whim and step on the aspirations of me and my generation then you know what? fuck it. it'll turn out we ARE all just citizens that should do what we're supposed to. work and serve. whether or not my generation will vote for Hillary, I can't speak for everyone.

but I can guarantee that many will sit home on that day. :/

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
92. Revolutions don't happen overnight
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:21 PM
Oct 2015

and the setbacks will be many. And I completely understand how you feel, BUT, the only way to win over the oligarchs is to keep coming at them and keep coming at them in a thousands different ways. As discouraging as it is, you HAVE to stay in there. Staying home and not voting only works for the interest of the 1%. It's hard, arduous work. I know, I've been at it since Moses. But it CAN work. Look at gay marriage. Ten years ago the stupid Democrats were STILL running from this issue but look where we are. A conservative kangaroo supreme court upheld marriage equality. In 2008, we elected our first African-American president. I didn't think that would happen in my lifetime. ALL of those things took decades to accomplish and had many MANY setback. But you have to hang in there. You have to keep fighting because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate and when you're old and grey you can tell your grandchildren that you were on the front lines fighting for a better world for them.

Here's my favorite Harriett Tubman quote:

“If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.”

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
109. Revolution will seem impossible until it's suddenly inevitable.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:59 PM
Oct 2015

I have to admit, Bernie's campaign has caught fire far more quickly than I'd ever hoped. It's comical to me to see Hillary supporters touting a NH poll showing Sanders and Clinton in a dead heat as some sort of triumph for Hillary. Going by conventional political wisdom, she should be wiping the floor with him.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
98. If Clinton is the nominee, some millennials will skip voting.
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:46 PM
Oct 2015

If Bernie is the nominee, some millennials will skip voting.

Some millennials always skip voting. They forgot to re-register after they moved from their former address. DU members notwithstanding, a lot of millennials aren't that interested in, you know, voting and shit.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
106. The fact that Mellinnials are not party loyalists could turn politics on its head. The reason
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:43 PM
Oct 2015

politicians know they can do nothing and collect fat checks is because they know the people will not vote them out of office. If Millennials actually start voting people out of office regardless of party affiliation then maybe the fat cats will start paying attention to the voters.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
119. So basically the message is "Vote Sanders or we'll
Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:14 PM
Oct 2015

throw all the toys out of the crib!"? I swear that's the tone you guys are taking.

I don't see the Clinton supporters swearing the spend Election Day doing bong hits and bitching about "the establishment" (people really say that non-ironically? The mind reels.) They're all gonna work their asses off for Bernie, because that's what smart people do. They recognize that real differences do indeed exist and they choose accordingly.

ecstatic

(32,727 posts)
126. Posts like this show why Bernie will never win the black vote
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:30 AM
Oct 2015

Which means he'll never win the primaries. Bernie has been used as a "holier than thou" tool to bash president Obama for years. It's tiring. Obama "pissed" on college students? Really? GMAFB! Grow up, nobody's perfect. Not even Bernie.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
127. Excuse me? If he criticizes Obama he loses the black vote? So if we have a black
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:50 AM
Oct 2015

president we're not allowed to criticize him at all simply because he is black. I am a white woman and I criticize Obama over his education policy. Does that mean I am racist? If no one is perfect that mean Obama is not perfect and therefore deserving of criticism.

ecstatic

(32,727 posts)
128. No. Trolls and folks with ODS have used Bernie to bash Obama for years
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:57 AM
Oct 2015

Used his quotes, etc. It should be no surprise that Bernie has not and will never be received with open arms. It's not really Bernie's fault, it's his so called supporters that continue to create this rift.

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