2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMillenials will put their support behind a candidate they believe in
Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:54 PM - Edit history (2)
They voted FOR Obama in 2008. Obama pissed on them and their efforts the second he took office and then he wonders why they stayed home in 2012 and 2014. Bernie's got them excited again and because of a 50-year history of walking the walk they know he won't make a sharp right turn as soon as he gets the White House.
These kids aren't beholden to a political party. Many have a great disdain for BOTH major parties. I register voters at every Bernie event and in California they can vote in the Democratic Primaries if they're a registered Democrat or a registered Decline to State. By a 3:1 margin they are choosing Decline to State.
So this is it. These kids don't swear blind allegiance to any political parties, but they will throw their considerable support (the Hillary camp is making a deadly mistake in dismissing them) behind a candidate if they believe in him/her. So the lesson to the Democratic Party is to start putting up BETTER CANDIDATES because the millennials are NOT going to come out to support someone who they see as representing the status quo.
Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)The agreement W negotiated required the US withdrawal.
Obama either had to follow that agreement, or invade and topple the government again.
Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)turned around and the number on jobs and the deficit improved...albeit slowly.
They were waiting for the one thing that would grant them permission to come out in full force. GITMO almost gave that permission but they understood that the GOP was actually the cause of it not being shutdown.
Right now, this is the best they can do since TPP is really not clearly understood by many and there is a chance that it might improve international trade and economy. Everyone who has something to say negatively about it bases their comments on what they "heard" about it or excerpts of out of context text.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Especially given that we're talking about, you know, a politician.
randys1
(16,286 posts)from the man and that is that.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)On various issues. And last I was aware, these people are all entitled to complain about their dissatisfaction. Do you see this administration as flawless? Free of any valid complaint?
randys1
(16,286 posts)I have lots of complaints against all capitalist politicians, that isnt the point.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)People are allowed to complain when they are dissatisfied with a politician's performance. This doesn't mean that they "just hate" that politician, any more than agreement means they're "fanboys."
reddread
(6,896 posts)just pushing buttons is about all they can do.
no lives matter.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)So was listening to Rahm and reducing the agenda from transformation and mobilization to transactio and demobilization. Getting t he votes of the young and then treating them like they no longer mattered and were no longer needed was, too.
And it's basically the reason we got hosed in 2010 and 2014.
The lesson is...enthusiasm must always be stoked and midterms are always about firing up the base.
There were achievements, there were gains, good was done...but the moment was lost.
It's only because of Occupy and Bernie's campaign that any of the young are still involved.
LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)brooklynite
(94,679 posts)...I've been hearing this line for years; get back to me when it's scheduled.
LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)inequality, unemployment and the people who don't show up because they gave up, wage stagnation of everyone who is not near the top. Sooner to later something will happen, it almost did with Occupy.
Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,679 posts)Good to know.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)A political revolution like the Reagan revolution will.
A violent revolution like the French revolution won't.
The longer you hold off the former, the more likely the latter becomes.
LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)was only young boys being sacrificed to the alter. Now unless you are on the Wall Street good ol boys list you are S.O.L. I think the Wall Streeters have let the greed go for too long to reign it back easily.
I think it was interesting that the pharma guy that raised the price of his drug said he would lower the price after the rebuke from HRC. And naturally he evidently never intended to do it anyway.
Good Point Jeff.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)every 2 years was written into the Users Manual for the USA.
Those guys weren't stupid, they knew that if not allowed to engage in peaceful political adjustments, the people would turn themselves into the Angry Mob and get the same results by decidedly LESS peaceful means.
BarackTheVote
(938 posts)in the 1920s, before the New Deal started to kick in? Now these corporatists are making the same mistakes and opening themselves up to the same type of public retribution FDR feared and made every effort to stop by giving the people what they needed. When the revolution comes, it won't be the Cliven Bundy's of the US instigating it--it'll be Anonymous and Lizard Squad; from the ghettos to the university campuses. Students have been on the front lines of virtually every major revolution since the Enlightenment. The slack-jawed, gun-loving yokels will be too busy weeing themselves in their doomsday bunkers to be involved. But when people are pushed too hard, they push back. It's already started in certain black communities, and the civic unrest will spread unless some equality is injected back into this system and the wealthy are held accountable for their abuses. This isn't politics as usual; we need an FDR who will put the government firmly on the side of the people, rather than against them.
(I'm not saying revolution is good or right, but the indicators are popping up left and right. To dismiss it out of hand is to turn a blind eye to the history regarding times like these.)
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Then we will talk revolution LOL
frylock
(34,825 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)But it's a fact that the young hardly vote.
I know....this time it's different. We will see soon enough.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)is a coup d'état is it not?
Ill fuckin pass thanks.
LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)came when a new president took over in 1981. I guess I was wrong. Memory is one of the first things to go.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #2)
Codeine This message was self-deleted by its author.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)but that was cut down very quickly.
There are more millennials than baby boomers now in
the country, and most of the liberal ones are Bernie supporters.
I don't think that they will vote for HRC, because to them she
is same old, same old.
It appears that the party does not care that they could be
lost to the democratic party. It is doing so at its own peril.
JMO
jwirr
(39,215 posts)one of us elders talk about voting for Hillary if she is the nominee they look at us and say, "We will see." They are looking at issues not what gender should be next.
And they are not stupid. They have been education each other on-line for years now.
And I am afraid that one of our regular posters has it right - they are not ready to setter for second best.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Rahm Emmanuel. That told me EVERYTHING I need to know.
ETA: His transition team made me nervous because there was still a chance he wouldn't go completely Third Way. With Emmanuel I knew where we were headed.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I punched a wall when I found out about it back in late 2008.
Too many goddamned third way bastards.
Rahm and his crowd basically murdered the energy and enthusiasm for the Obama administration and squandered the potentials for volunteerism that would have helped stand up for good policy and against the tea party sorts.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)for 2010, 2012 and 2014 and the Democrats would have gained seats in both houses. They certainly wouldn't have lost the House.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)It would have been harder to hold onto the house even if Rahm had not been COS. The Republicans had been seizing the statehouses and gerrymandering like crazy.
But we would have gotten a lot more done and we could have opposed them ore effectively. I mean, the energy was there. Imagine the energy of the occupy movement channeled into specific political action.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I had never heard of him (or remembered him) until Obama's inauguration. That was the first example of Obana's toxic version of "compromise", and I don't think the 3rd-wayers even WANTED the Dems to control both the White House and Congress.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)The third way Democrats needed the Republican party in order to retain relevance. It might have been the reason so many idiotic conservative Democrats gave fillibuster cover to the innumerable Republican fillibusters in President Obama's first two years.
The Third way sorts and blue dogs needed to have something resembling a republican party in order to triangulate with and assure their position of power as the deal makers while pulling in money.
A weak or decimated republican party leaves you with a lot of progressives asking why things arent getting done and beating up corporatists. Any Blue Dogs or corporate Democrats in blue districts suddenly have to start worrying about primary challenges.
LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)awhile. Back on Prozac for a year after having been off for 15 years.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)have poor judgment. The millenials were so sure Obama was their hope and that didn't turn out to well for them - why should anyone trust their judgment now? Guess what - Bernie is just a man and politician not a savior.
And you're right about one thing...they are kids, threatening to take their wagon and go home if they don't get their way, just like they did in 2008. They got their way, Obama was elected and they immediately started stomping their feet because he wasn't what they THOUGHT he was. They will do the same to Sanders the first time he lets them down and he will.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)dismiss them and denigrate them. What is that from the "slash-and-burn" political playbook? I think I missed that chapter. I thought politics was about getting as much support as you can. I would think downplaying and denigrating the largest generation in American history is probably not a smart move. But carry on.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)it's their way or the highway from? I don't give blind allegiance to anyone either - who was denigrating others with that comment?
I won't kiss their asses for support for anyone or any thing.
They are welcome to their revolution. I bet it will be quite something.
frylock
(34,825 posts)"Who are liberals going to vote for hahaha?!" Does that sound familiar at all?
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)party.
I've never said that. I vote for the Democratic nominee except in 2008 I wrote in Hillary since Obama was going to carry my state.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)working for you?
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)The politicians know they don't have to work for the vote. They can sit on their hands, do nothing, blame the other party, and sit back and collect fat checks. How is that working for you? It's not working for me, so I intend to change how I vote.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)I'll vote the way I want.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)said you did.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Her supporters will begin attacking millennials with 'you kids get off my lawn' crap, the same thing they attacked Obama with in 2008.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)When you can't win attacking Bernie's policies, start attacking the people who vote for him.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)to win anything. I think the Sanders supporters have done their share of attacking. They can dish it out but sure can't take any disagreement.
I like Sanders fine. He's done some questionable things but that's the nature of politicians.
Speaking of attacking supporters, Hillary's supporters have been attacked at least as much as Sanders supporters and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)was. I didn't intend for it to be just like many things the Sanders supporters have said about Hillary supporters weren't intended to be compliments.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)So either you are also a horrible person for attacking, or you're being a tad hypocritical.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)anyone horrible. I may very well be horrible - that's my burden to bear along with a number of other burdens.
frylock
(34,825 posts)even before Sanders announced, we were called a bunch delusional fools living in a fantasy land. Gosh, who wouldn't take exception to that characterization? You can't even reference Hillary's congressional record, or post her own fucking words without her supporters losing their shit, but we're to just take these insults lobbed at us in stride. Fuck that shit.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)supporters were called many unflattering things, not that I care. I didn't call you delusional fools so I don't know what you are referencing.
I've seen a lot of shit losing on both sides. I don't have the energy to lose my shit.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)An attitude of "fuck those kids and their stupid dreams".
You need their votes, or you lose. It really is that simple. There are not enough liberal boomers left for you to win without "the kids".
So, get off your fucking high horse and actually help us make a better world.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)it's me on a fucking high horse. Millennials seem to think they know everything but life has a way of fixing that. Dreams are fine but reality is what we live. I heard all of this before in 2007-2008.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which is not at all surprising. It's exactly how people like you drove away my generation (GenX).
Again, there are not enough liberal boomers left for you to win. You either need to appeal to "the kids", or you lose. Ranting about how awful "the kids" are is not going to cut it.
Do you want to win, or do you want to feel superior? Pick one.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)if I'm a boomer or not?
I don't try to appeal to spoiled kids. I'm not the one who started "the kids" comments..that was the OP.
If the kids can do it all by themselves they don't need my agreement. They're going to vote how they want and I'll vote how I want. If they are willing to see a Republican win that's on them...we know how that will work out.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Apparently not.
Again, basic math. There are not enough liberal Boomers left for a Democrat to win without the millennials.
The older half of Boomers skew liberal, the younger half skew conservative. So the liberal ones are "leaving the voting pool" first. That leaves the younger boomers who created the Tea Party (along with older GenX).
So you either have to give a damn about the "spoiled kids", or you have to be willing to see a Republican win.
Apparently, you are choosing the latter.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)only apparent in your mind. If Sanders wins the nomination, I'll vote for him. I'm not the one threatening to not vote for the Democratic nominee...that would be the kids.
And you certainly insinuated I am a boomer and I think you know that.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You need their vote. You will lose without it.
So either you have to be willing to lose, or you have to do something about them not turning out.
You continue to chose losing over finding out what they want.
Again, I never made a reference to your age. I made a reference to your posts and your utter hatred of "the kids" for daring to have an opinion other than yours.
Here's your choice: Suck it up and finally start paying attention to "the kids", or lose.
You've picked the latter. Enjoy your cat food.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)Oh good grief - spare me the histrionics.
If they cause me to lose they lose right there with me. The cat dish will be crowded.
I paid attention in 2008 and saw them turn on Obama in a heartbeat. They want Bernie this go round for their revolution and they will turn on him the first time they don't like something he does or doesn't do to suit them.
If they want to be listened to they should try talking like adults and quit threatening. I don't take to threats.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Again, your lack of giving a damn about "the kids" has resulted in decades of pain and loss. You talking about 4 more years of suffering is not going to work.
We already know there's a mountain of shit to clean up. We've known the mountain was there for decades. We kept pointing it out, and kept being ignored because you didn't need our votes to win.
A few more turds on the pile does not really matter. It will still be a mountain of shit to clean up and we'll be cleaning it for decades to come.
Yet here you are, issuing threats and insults.
If it won't work on you, why do you think it will work on everyone else?
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)None. You think you're the only ones to experience pain and loss and have a shit pile to clean up?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It's the theme of every post of yours in this thread.
Can't get out of "Me generation" mode, can you?
"The kids" were not needed for a winning coalition. Liberal boomers and FDR democrats could still win elections without them.
So when we complained about high tuition, it was ignored.
When it came time to make a deal with the Republicans to "save" Social Security from Gingrich, it was programs for "the kids" that were sacrificed.
It wasn't us that slashed our school funding - we were the students.
It wasn't us that decided to try and out-tough the Republicans on crime and ramp up the drug war.
It wasn't us that decided "the kids" were lazy moochers that didn't deserve a safety net.
So where did that end up? GenX will be the first generation in US history to die worse off economically than their parents. And no, there is not enough time to undo the decades of neglect.
But to bring this back to the entire point of the thread: There aren't many FDR Democrats left. Liberal boomers are also declining. So you need "the kids" to win. And "the kids" are already fucked, so "you'll be fucked" is not much of a threat.
So you either need to find out what they want, or you will lose. I'd prefer the former, but your track record clearly demonstrates you will do the latter.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)I was told I would be eating cat food.
I had to quit college because tuition almost tripled. I didn't vote for the asshole who slashed the school budget. I didn't ramp up the drug war...I smoked pot and hash for years. I want Social security strenghtened and increased, too. I'm not old enough for it yet. And I'm worse off than my parents.
I didn't say you would be fucked, that's what the millenials are saying.
You can't seem to get out of the me mode. I've said little about me until now but the millenials are doing the whining and crying about about their woes. If you want to hear a me mode I can accommodate you.
I've read what they want. Have they listened and cared about what anyone else wants? I don't think so. It's a two way street.
You don't know shit about my track record...this thread started out with threats from a millenial. I responded to those threats.
I won't vote for someone in the primary that I don't believe can win in the general. If he wins in the primary, I'll vote for him in the GE. If that's not good enough I don't know what to tell you.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It's not about what you, individually did. It is about what your cohort did to mine, and is doing to millennials.
In other words, it finally isn't about you. And you just can't understand that.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)poor, poor thing. If you want to see the me generation go look in the mirror.
Does your generation ever take any responsibility for anything or see what previous generations were handed? Look at the generation that was handed the great depression, WW2 and the holocaust or the generation handed the Vietnam war, the cold war and Kent State. Every generation has inherited shit. I've never thought it was about me - the government has lied to me my whole life and it lied to my parents their whole life.
No president is going to change the world...not even Bernie. He had to be shamed into trying to change the VA and it's still a mess.
I don't have a cohort, just basically two choices for president and I choose the one I think can win the GE. The thought of a President Trump gives me shivers.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)do you think that's a good thing?
You think that's the only "doesn't get it" scenario?
Well, yours doesn't.
Again, you guys created the first generation in all of US history that will be worse off than its parents. You immediately turn to talking about events in the 1960s, and nothing after the mid 70s.
40 years went by after that. It was the era when your generation actually started voting and dominating the electorate. Yet you got nothing to point to in that 40 years?
Which is why every single post of yours in this thread is about you, and how much better you are than the whiny, spoiled kids.
And the fact that you think this is a good argument demonstrates you really don't get it.
But it isn't about you.
You do not get it, and you are not at all interested in understanding it. You are entirely motivated by fear. You are terrified of the Republicans. And that fear is why your generation failed when you got the reigns of power. Instead of making anything better, you sought to make things only a little worse. Over and over again, just give up a little bit, and the issue won't come up again.
But one thing ignoring us for 30 years has done is taught us patience. If you make us wait, we'll just clean up the slightly larger mess later.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)It's not all about you and millenials. Get out of your poor me bubble and see how other people live like the Mexicans.
Maybe if you actually read what I wrote it would be helpful. You're the one talking about yourself and what a terrible world we handed you.
Yeah, there's plenty to point to in those 40 years if the constant stress of the previous years aren't enough which included a president being assassinated, MLK and Bobby Kennedy being assassinated.
Interest rates so high cars were unaffordable (20+%), Grenada, the Gulf war, Watergate, another president being shot, the Iran hostages, AIDS, John Lennon assassinated, Ethiopian famine, space shuttle explodes, Mt. St. Helen erupts, Exxon Valdez spill, Black Monday, hurricane Andrew, Waco, 2 week government shutdown, TWA FLight 800 explosion, etc. Need I go on?You don't think all that took a toll?
We weren't terrified, we were fucking exhausted but YOU don't get it because you don't understand jack shit.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)What a surprise.
Yet you failed to point to anything.
Weren't you just arguing how much tougher your generation is?
And you failed to fix any of that. You failed to even try to. And seriously, Flight 800? THAT is an event that totally rendered your generation unable to fight back against Reagan's revolution?
Again, we're used to waiting. If we have to wait a little longer, so be it. We'll be here.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)irrational. Shame on us for not raising John Lennon from the dead and not preventing Mt. St. Helen from erupting. And sure, that's what I said - the airline explosion all by itself, without the other years of stressers was too much.
You go ahead and think your poor little generation has it tougher than any other and we'll continue to live our lives while ya'll whine. We're used to it.
Bye. Go mischaracterize everything someone else says.
Response to jeff47 (Reply #122)
ohheckyeah This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to jeff47 (Reply #32)
Name removed Message auto-removed
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)There were also still a good a among of "Greatest" and "Silent" to depend on too. Dole ran in 96.
This time though the math is very different and the shitpile is miles higher.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)bother me why?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)support Bernie? Wake up.
asleep. Never said they were. The OP was about millenials...try to keep up.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--its Millennials and their grandparents.
For Freddie
(79 posts)NOT criticism.
1. Beyond the schmutz about not funding the huge defense spending for Israel, what are Bernie's true FEELINGS about Israel? He is Jewish. He has a good heart. These are HIS people. Rahm was the same way where his HEART and family history was.
He does what he is told. I have not found any information about this on Bernie yet. The true policy. Just the de- funding the defense spending. And fat chance on that with McCrazy pushing the boundaries until he cashes in. So... this has some Pro-Israel possibility we are yet to see openly? And is the policy of defunding or reducing defense spending for Israel a reality that could EVER be implemented in the next 8 years? Or is it just a good sounding
thing to say knowing it is not a reality?
2. Gun Control-What is his plan? The Whole Plan. This is questionable when there is not a policy or plan openly outlined. A complete plan. True feelings about this? Here is a trade off Bernie had to make in his state. This is troubling.
3. Immigration- Again what's the plan? How will this work under Bernie. And then there is Black Lives Matter. There is tension in these issues. Where is his HEART in this? Can he put forth specific policy and plan in these issues?
All 3 of these issues are connected to Israeli policy. And Loyalty to Israel. Protection of Israel. I am NOT anti-Israel, just the outdated dysfunctional Zionist policies they keep playing over and over again.That causes so much Heart ache for everyone. So I just want to know. What's the Plan for all of this? What are Bernie's Solutions?
If Bernie came out openly and stated plan and policy that totally smoked Hillary THEN we would see he is truly MORE than pulling the whole narrative to the Left, to proceed in a more realistic path for the future. Which may be his true historic role in all of this.And in itself a great service to all of us.
Bernie is the first person who has openly stated anything close to the New Deal these kids have ever heard in their lifetime. Preparing for a global future of greater balance out of the schlock of Ray-Gun fugazi trickle down bullshit.
Bernie is the first person NOT assassinated for being open about these needs, feelings and the path it must follow for social and economic justice running for President. THAT in itself is somewhat revolutionary. Pulling everything to the Left, finally burying all of the dysfunctional muck of the Ray Gun economic policy.Which was just knee jerk anti FDR New Deal.
The fact Bernie has the kids is a GOOD thing. But the Kids don't seem to understand where there is great power and great money there is also great manipulation of narrative. ANYONE running for president is only allowed to do so by making deals, no matter what they say. That is real life. Read History. I have been around since Truman. NO ONE IS PERFECT.
So... We need to know about Bernie and Israel, Bernie and Guns and Bernie and Immigration. 3 issues VERY central to Israeli
Zionist policy. Where IS Bernie on Zionism? On WORKING with Israel? What are his feelings for Israel?
If he wasn't so far Left and so vocal about Social/Economic Justice
the questions about Israel would have been front and center.
But the kids are just so thankful to hear ANYTHING about Economic and Social Justice they seem to over look these issues. Any other Jewish candidate would have been roasted and discarded by now. And remember, only Momo Giancana delivered W. Virginia to old Joe K. so we had our first Catholic President.
Bernie needs to clear the Israeli issue and the ones so precious to them to keeping America fearful and empathetic, NOT questioning and doubting them. Those issues of fear are Unconditional Support for Israel (fear), Immigration (fear), Guns (fear). Even if defense funding "appeared" to be defunded, there will always be black bag ops and organized crime to continue the muck that is ongoing.
As to the perfection of Obama. The Dude is human and NO president, even Bernie, will have complete control of the Military Industrial Complex. Real World stuff for now. In the future that is a big thing to work on and change. And change on Planet Earth comes slowly to human thought and populations. Climate Change may light a fire under asses , hopefully.
It isn't what Bernie says that is in ALL of our Hearts, it is what HE will do if elected. He is providing a sacred and valuable service just in BEING and saying what he is saying pulling everything to the Left for the future, and finally out of the muck and lies and corruption of the Sacred Daddy, Ray-Gun. And poor Ronnie was just a tool too.
Every president is compromised. Always was.
Deals must be made, trade offs made. The world economy runs on the Organized Crime model, with private sit downs.
All the freedom democracy stuff is out front. The real deals go down behind closed doors. And those who do not go easy, go hard.
If not there is always the heart attack, plane crash option.
So... time to discuss among ourselves all of this.
I, myself, am verklempt about the uncertainty in this.
And if you are all going to flame me that is ok.
I feel these are answers many of us are looking for.
If these could be answered in real life terms, then Bernie
could "win".
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)directed to?
For Freddie
(79 posts)who can answer them intelligently without feeling threatened.
A lot of us really want to know the answers.
These are the only flaws in Bernie where he doesn't walk the walk.
Why?
Or heard him address them in detail.
I have been beaten up by elections for decades.
So I am not going to jump and get all excited or full of hope for
anyone. If these issues can be cleared openly then it COULD
flip the whole election.
Right now if someone seems too good to be true, usually they are.
And this is NOT pro Hillary or pro anyone.
This is just wanting more information given in a grounded adult way
without too much emotion.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)uponit7771
(90,348 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)That's 67% of he millennials who came out to vote, not 67% of millennials. Less of them came out to vote in 2012 as compared to 2008 which backs up my statement that they won't send money to, campaign for, or vote for someone they feel is part of the status quo and especially one who they feel betrayed them. They won't fall for that again.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Do you speak for the millennial vote now?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)turned out in 2008 compared with 2012 and why.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Where are you getting your numbers from?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)What about the other millennials who were eligible to vote in 2012?
From Huffington:
Voters from ages 18 to 29 represented 19 percent of all those who voted on Tuesday, according to the early National Exit Poll conducted by Edison Research. That's an increase of one percentage point from 2008. Obama captured 60 percent youth vote, compared with Mitt Romney's 36 percent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/youth-vote-2012-turnout-exit-polls_n_2086092.html
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Making up a larger percentage of the people who vote did not mean turnout went up.
The age distribution of the population isn't constant. You are treating it as if it is constant, in order to use "percentage of the electorate" to show a higher turnout.
"Youth" turnout went down between 2008 and 2012. At the same time, more older voters did not show up at the polls in 2012. Probably for the obvious reason. That means the lower "youth" turnout was a larger percentage of the electorate.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)We didn't exactly give millennials a choice. And turnout among young voters went down by 7% compared to 2008.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Do you even bother to check the facts?
The Millennial vote in 2012 was a greater share of the electorate than 2008 and the majority for Obama again:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/youth-vote-2012-turnout-exit-polls_n_2086092.html
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)facts when they can dream?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You're comparing two different sets.
The electorate got younger in 2012.
At the same time, young voter turnout went down by about 7% compared to 2008.
The population, and its age distribution, aren't constant. You are treating them as if they are.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Study: Youth vote was decisive
By Kevin Robillard
11/07/12 01:03 PM EST
Mitt Romney would have cruised to the White House had he managed to split the youth vote with Barack Obama, according to an analysis released Wednesday.
Obama easily won the youth vote nationally, 67 percent to 30 percent, with young voters proving the decisive difference in Florida, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio, according to an analysis by the Center for Research and Information on Civic Learning and Engagement at Tufts University. Obama won at least 61 percent of the youth vote in four of those states, and if Romney had achieved a 50-50 split, he could have flipped those states to his column, the study said.
About half of all eligible people ages 18-29 voted in Tuesdays election, roughly the same level as 2008, according to Peter Levine, the centers director. The youth votes share of the electorate actually increased slightly from 18 percent to 19 percent. In total, 22 million-23 million young people voted, according to the analysis.
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/study-youth-vote-was-decisive-083510
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Still doesn't mean turnout was the same.
And again, a larger percentage of the electorate just means fewer older voters showed up. Probably for the obvious reason.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Was the number one threat to America.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and pay a lot more attention now to the records of those asking for their votes. After learning how important that is.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)I'm 27, always thought of myself as an independent, and I only registered as a democrat to vote for Bernie.
If this doesn't work out, then I think I'll just screw off and let all the assholes have their establishment.
if Hillary wins then it will literally be more of the same. it will confirm the fear that I used to have before Bernie inspired me. if my fear is confirmed, it may be irreparable damage. and I don't doubt millions of others in my generation feel the same.
I keep saying i'll vote Hillary if she wins because its better than nothing... but voting the lesser of two evils is what kept me the fuck out if politics and sometimes I think I'll be damned before I play the establishments game. I get so angry thinking about it that I imagine just sitting home on election day and letting the world burn.
but I know I shouldn't. realistically, I'll probably bitch and moan my way to the polls, begrudgingly vote for Hillary and then throw in the towel until another Bernie dares to try again.
if Bernie wins though... my spirit will be so encouraged and elated that a true underdog won, that I would be so vindicated in my optimism that I'll become more politically active than ever before.
but if the establishment wants to control information and power to their whim and step on the aspirations of me and my generation then you know what? fuck it. it'll turn out we ARE all just citizens that should do what we're supposed to. work and serve. whether or not my generation will vote for Hillary, I can't speak for everyone.
but I can guarantee that many will sit home on that day. :/
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and the setbacks will be many. And I completely understand how you feel, BUT, the only way to win over the oligarchs is to keep coming at them and keep coming at them in a thousands different ways. As discouraging as it is, you HAVE to stay in there. Staying home and not voting only works for the interest of the 1%. It's hard, arduous work. I know, I've been at it since Moses. But it CAN work. Look at gay marriage. Ten years ago the stupid Democrats were STILL running from this issue but look where we are. A conservative kangaroo supreme court upheld marriage equality. In 2008, we elected our first African-American president. I didn't think that would happen in my lifetime. ALL of those things took decades to accomplish and had many MANY setback. But you have to hang in there. You have to keep fighting because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate and when you're old and grey you can tell your grandchildren that you were on the front lines fighting for a better world for them.
Here's my favorite Harriett Tubman quote:
If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there's shouting after you, keep going. Don't ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I have to admit, Bernie's campaign has caught fire far more quickly than I'd ever hoped. It's comical to me to see Hillary supporters touting a NH poll showing Sanders and Clinton in a dead heat as some sort of triumph for Hillary. Going by conventional political wisdom, she should be wiping the floor with him.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)MineralMan
(146,324 posts)If Bernie is the nominee, some millennials will skip voting.
Some millennials always skip voting. They forgot to re-register after they moved from their former address. DU members notwithstanding, a lot of millennials aren't that interested in, you know, voting and shit.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)politicians know they can do nothing and collect fat checks is because they know the people will not vote them out of office. If Millennials actually start voting people out of office regardless of party affiliation then maybe the fat cats will start paying attention to the voters.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)throw all the toys out of the crib!"? I swear that's the tone you guys are taking.
I don't see the Clinton supporters swearing the spend Election Day doing bong hits and bitching about "the establishment" (people really say that non-ironically? The mind reels.) They're all gonna work their asses off for Bernie, because that's what smart people do. They recognize that real differences do indeed exist and they choose accordingly.
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)Which means he'll never win the primaries. Bernie has been used as a "holier than thou" tool to bash president Obama for years. It's tiring. Obama "pissed" on college students? Really? GMAFB! Grow up, nobody's perfect. Not even Bernie.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)president we're not allowed to criticize him at all simply because he is black. I am a white woman and I criticize Obama over his education policy. Does that mean I am racist? If no one is perfect that mean Obama is not perfect and therefore deserving of criticism.
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)Used his quotes, etc. It should be no surprise that Bernie has not and will never be received with open arms. It's not really Bernie's fault, it's his so called supporters that continue to create this rift.