2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumlet's get it straight..hillary did not come out "against" the tpp
quotes from huffpost
1. "As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it," Clinton told Judy Woodruff of PBS "Newshour."
AS OF TODAY, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF WHAT I HAVE LEARNED ABOUT IT
That is NOT an unconditional statement saying it should not happen. it is a nuanced politically calculated statement that says TODAY only she is not in favor of what has learned. tomorrow or any day following, she may (and probably will) favor this corporate gift.
2." I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions."
BFD. all this means is that she is capable of stating the unbelievably obvious. Again, it is not a statement of disapproval, just a statement saying that we don't know everything about it.
my conclusion: This is classic clintonian bullshit wordgames and manipulation of the public and the press. this is what they do best. any day now, she could "learn something" that will cause her to be less "worried." and how convenient that she came out with this nonstatement a week before the first debate and after it looks like the tpp is going to go through. as usual, taking a stand after the the other candidates have stormed the fort.
whatever shred of respect i had for huffpo is gone. they played right into her hands
and for those saying i am playing word games, save it.... bernie's words on guns were dissected more times than a cadaver in med school.
******
Source: Huffington Post
WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton came out against the Trans-Pacific Partnership Wednesday, breaking with President Barack Obama on the 12-nation trade deal that is set to become a key part of his legacy.
"As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it," Clinton told Judy Woodruff of PBS "Newshour."
"I have said from the very beginning that we had to have a trade agreement that would create good American jobs, raise wages and advance our national security. And I still believe that's the high bar we have to meet," she said. "I have been trying to learn as much as I can about the agreement. But I'm worried. I'm worried about currency manipulation not being part of the agreement. We've lost American jobs to the manipulations that countries, particularly in Asia, have engaged in. I'm worried the pharmaceutical companies may have gotten more benefits -- and patients and consumers fewer. I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
Progressives have been pushing Clinton for months to take a position on TPP, since Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley (D), two of her rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, came out against it long ago.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-tpp_56157832e4b0fad1591a9289
artislife
(9,497 posts)She's educated, why can't she use words to convey a meaning instead of an atmospheric description?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)She seems to like their room.
MindfulOne
(227 posts)And now she's not so sure...
Sid
Gman
(24,780 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)he is on the health, education and labor committee as well as the budget committee as well,as being a long time senator and a mayor before that. he knows how bad trade deals, including the one pushed by her husband, have been.
a suggestion that taking a principled stand makes one an idiot can only itself be an acknowledgment that the candidate one supports is too weak to take a principled stand of her own.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Into something so that you can't maneuver when circumstances change.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)over the iraq war
yes i have no doubt that circumstances will change soon so that she favors her corporate buddies over the people.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)that this agreement is unacceptable, and I can not nor will I support it unless it is changed. You then go on to state what changes would be necessary to gain your acceptance.
Hillary is just leaving an opening to "grudgingly accept" the agreement if necessary, that takes no courage or brains.
elmac
(4,642 posts)Everyone has their reasons, their opinions but past practice + secrecy seems to put a negative spin on the whole process. My best guess is that the bigger countries are really putting the screws to the little ones and that corporations are putting the screws to all of us when details of the TPP come out.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It sure seems that way.
So using your logic, Hillary supporters are all.... umm.... (fill in the blank) _______ !
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Never take an unconditional stance, regardless of the circumstances.
"I believe all taxes should be repealed, and the government should be abolished."
That's unconditional stance. Do you think it is idiotic?
Taking an unconditional stance "on principle" is idiotic. Makes you feel good but leaves no room for changing situations.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I doubt you believe that. But even if you do, HRC took an unconditional stance in favor of the TPP initially when she called it the "gold standard", and now she is waffling. But still not giving us a clue. She is a master of the rhetoric.
Gman
(24,780 posts)It's incredibly stupid to take an unconditional, irrevocable stand.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)I think for now I'll trust her other 45 opinions.
45 times Secretary Clinton pushed the trade bill she now opposes
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/politics/45-times-secretary-clinton-pushed-the-trade-bill-she-now-opposes/
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)ForwardMotion
(39 posts)She's right to set a high bar for trade agreements. Trade supports tens of millions of US jobs.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)deal with actual trade?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Or, non-union jobs.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Do you really love democracy and our constitution when you say that? if you don't like it then WHY do you support this POS "agreement" which should be voted on as a treaty if our forefathers had anything to do with it.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... and the accompanying financial disaster that has us back with a wealth divide that is like it was right before the big depression earlier. Sorry if most of us here don't share your opinion on how our spiral downward is "inevitable reality" and something that we should like.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)"I'm not in favor of what I have learned about it"? How can one be in favor or not about having learned?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)"I wish you guys had kept quiet about it until I cinched the nomination! Now I have to take a stance!"
Don't get much more accurate than that.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)From Hillary's House of Waffle!
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 14, 2015, 07:55 PM - Edit history (1)
See http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/11/200565.htm
Yallow
(1,926 posts)Except labor, and environmentalists were not invited to participate in the drafting.
Oh well.
Maybe next time.....
Another 10 years of watching:
Jobs leave
The planet burn, and the ice melt
Record corporate profits
So Hillary. You are going to do all in your power to stop this crap deal?
Yeah, thought so.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . because you reminded me of a comment my brother-in-law made during the 2004 election season about Kerry versus Bush: "I'm sorry, but I just don't see much difference between Yale '66 and Yale '68."
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)You can't really trust anything she says.
840high
(17,196 posts)Yallow
(1,926 posts)Nothing to rattle the Wall Street rapists in that statement was there Hill.....
jalan48
(13,888 posts)"I support the left, though I'm leaning, leaning to the right".
DrBulldog
(841 posts)... to understand the depth of their favorite candidate's support. They were asked to list the issues or positions of their candidate upon which they strongly agreed. Most Bernie supporters mentioned several specific positions. MOST HILLARY SUPPORTERS COULD NOT CLEARLY DEFINE ANY POSITIONS AT ALL. (This was recently reported on MSNBC.)
Duckfan
(1,268 posts)I'm not in favor of Hillary's wishy-washy, have-it-both-ways position on TPP.
Just learned about it?
What a load of crap.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Her exact words are really enlightening. It's Clinton-speak.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i just got sick of people praising this non position and attributing credit where none was due.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)She has been a supporter, a PROMOTER of this horrible deal and now, for political purposes, she tries to triangulate her position.
So sick of it. And when I think of how I defended the Clintons for so many years. They must have been laughing at us for our naivety.
Bernie's position on this has been consistent.
This is such a blatant attempt to fool the people, I have no words.
'WATCH THEY DO NOT WHAT THEY SAY'
We are watching. They should know that by now.
Bernblu
(441 posts)but it depends on what the meaning of is is.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)I have no faith that she will do anything but equivocate on this.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)ya never know when that wind is going to shift
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)The wind will shift the next day, should she win the Democratic nomination. Though if the GOP nominates Trump that could move the wind shift to the next day after the general election, not sure how Trump would impact the general on this issue.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)In a way, it's a weakness. because once you realize this, you can understand exactly what they are saying, and what their real plans are...
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)"... as far as I know."?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)except that we have all learned to read it now....
Darb
(2,807 posts)Please post it then.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)"As of today" I find that odd sentence construction for someone opposed to the TPP
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)any agreement that will result in __________________." But her "as of today" only distinguishes from "as of today" tomorrow.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)that's my take
azmom
(5,208 posts)Come to?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Gotta keep that gravy train a-rollin'!
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)being a moderate, not a conservative, what are servers?, take your pick.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)On purpose.
What's the saying for Dem candidates, "tack left in the primary and tack right in the general"?
I suspect that as of ANOTHER day in the not-too-distant-future, she might be inclined to support it. Again.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Weasel words piled on weasel words.