Speculation has it that Harry Reid's Source comes from within the Mormon Church...

[reACTIONary]

Harry Reid and Romney share the Mormon faith, and Reid is the highest ranking politico of that faith. Speculation has it that Reid's source for Romney's tax evasion may be within their Church.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/harry-reid-gives-mitt-hell/

[rfranklin]

1. They're getting him back for claiming he couldn't tithe because he had no income...

"Look, see, I owe no income taxes. That means I had no income. Maybe next year..."

[KurtNYC]

3. "Mitt cheated his church"

"Mitt lied to God"

..if true, that is going to be a tough one to 'splain.

[CreekDog]

37. i would make it harder for him to become a high official in the church

if he has any designs on being a high official like his dad was or even "Prophet" like Ezra Taft Benson.

[Raster]

45. it wouldn't be God to whom Mitt would owe an explanation if if he did cheat the church,

...it would be the Council of the Twelve Apostles, a.k.a. The High Command.

Mitt paints himself as a devout pillar of the Mormon faith, and worthy of the trust of the Church. Someone who is exposed as lying about tithing and cheating the church would be a modern-day pariah.

[dmr]

18. I think that's one of the reasons. He must be

worried that he could lose his standing or whatever they call it in the Mormon Church.

His greed not only cheats America, but his church as well. Not good.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. didn't he only show 7% tithe in 2010?

[hlthe2b]

2. I wonder if not only a fellow Mormon, but perhaps someone who had access via the McCain campaign?

I could see how seeing those returns and knowing he was lying to the church about tithing 10% (for example) might really rankle over the years.... He might still have told a fellow Mormon, such as Reid--even though Reid is a DEM.

[Retrograde]

31. My theory is that Willard wants to be prophet when he's done being president

and some men high up in LDS circles don't want him that high in the hierarchy. I think he's up on his tithings, but has been using some shady means to get around paying taxes - like claiming residency in one state for tax purposes and another for voting - and if it becomes public the powers that be think it may ultimately be bad for the Church.

[Charles II]

72. McCain

Would know along with xxxx group of people who selected his VP choice. It may be worth it to look at the book "Game Change" because they talking about the vp vetting process. The people they list will have direct knowledge of Romneys returns.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

4. Reid also has proclaimed very confidently that Romney is worth "a lot more" than $250 million

Per Rachel Maddow's show yesterday, "You guys have said his wealth is $250 million dollars", Reid went on. "Not a chance in the world. It's a lot more than that."

Romney's true net worth would probably be a hot topic of conversation among Mormon insiders, if the issue of tithing were to come up.

[LiberalFighter]

9. I'm inclined to believe that is the case.

Considering that the trust for his boys is worth at least $100 million.

[Raster]

46. and to think a large amount of their "trust" came off the backs of blue-collar workers and....

....day-to-day Americans, not spoon-fed rich kids. No, the Rmoney trust fund boys will get their money the good old fashioned American way: their daddy stole it.

[speedoo]

16. No doubt about that.

No one should need any inside info to understand that.

[tosh]

21. It is hard NOT to believe that he is worth more than that.

I feel strongly that it's a B number.

[Tom Ripley]

7. Fuck off, dirtbag

[EarlG]

10. Oops

I didn't mean to delete that troll post. Oh well...

[reACTIONary]

12. Wow! That was fast! I was just in the process of reporting him...

...another "one post wonder" bites the dust!

[enough]

6. What I don't get is that, if he is hiding money, it's not going to show up on the tax forms.

It's the IRS he would be hiding from, presumably, as well as the Mormon church.

[LiberalFighter]

11. He had Bain Capital funds set up offshore.

How much of that money was reported and where is it kept now?

[CreekDog]

38. He may not have hid it from the IRS, just from his church

you can legally have a ton of money and use loopholes to legally get out of paying taxes on portions of it.

but on those same taxes, it would become obvious whether he tithed 10% on all the income, part of it, or didn't tithe 10% at all.

[HereSince1628]

8. The odds favor this as Bain leans toward LDS

They even fired execs in companies they owned for not being mormon.

I'm of the opinion that being a partner of Bain probably provides more insight than being mormon.

But being mormon might have pushed the person to leak.

Mormons are expected to comply with the tax law of the country in which they resided, to do otherwise is a serious violation of church policy which can cause a member to be denied a temple recommend and to be disallowed from holding offices of responsibility in the church.

Considering that, it's possible that a mormon business partner of Romney shared knowledge of Romney's break with church policy with Reid.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Are they of the belief that if they can get a strong contender for ruler of a planet knocked out

That they can move up the line?

[HereSince1628]

15. There is a claim that there is a Mormon Mafia, that seeks control of governments

but then there are a whole lot of creative claims about mormons.

[ellie_belly]

32. I've heard this. The percentage of mormons in the Secret Service is very high

When I lived in SLC in the 90s I heard this. Because the church teaches not to question authority they end up being pretty good at military jobs and other "don't ask, just do" stuff. I think the Secret Service is up close to 40%.

[spinbaby]

36. Not a surprise

Mormons have an excellent language program because of all that missionary work, they don't drink, and they usually come up squeaky clean for security clearance.

[Raster]

47. Howard "crazy as batshit" Hughes employed Mormons for his security and....

...high level positions of power for much of the same reasons.

[Whisp]

14. I wonder if Huntsman is involved in this in any way.

Of all the stooges that threw their hats into the ring he was the only one close to being a normal human, so on that alone maybe he had a bit part in this as well as he is Mormon too.

[vlyons]

20. Huntsman?? that's pretty interesting

If Huntsman is the snitch, that would be deliciously ironic

[elfin]

54. That's what I posted some days ago

It fits. Mormon, more of a straight arrow like Reid, mega rich family probably in close relationship with Bain at some point, disgusted at Rmoney's antics and lies. If not him, he's in the mix some way.

[customerserviceguy]

17. Being as Harry is not politically popular

with the average Mormon, and I would guess the upper echelon of the LDS church, I'd say this speculation is probably misguided. If anyone at the Mormon church ever saw anyone's tax return (which I sincerely doubt happens, although I've often thought it 'convenient' that the IRS office for that region is in Ogden) they sure as hell wouldn't talk about it, especially to someone whose political views don't square with theirs.

[dmr]

19. How do we know he's not politically popular with the church?

I suppose it might depend on who in the church. I don't know really, I don't understand how their leadership works.

[kooljerk666]

22. uummmmmmm Cause he ain't a Republican??

go read congress.org , i do not think there are any DEM LDS folks.

[braddy]

29. Harry and Mitt are both Temple Mormons, the inner circle, secretive elites who those temples are

built for, and which average Mormons, (about 85%) are not allowed into.

As Prophet Hinckley instructed. "May I speak also of a matter pertinent to temples? I remind you of the absolute obligation to not discuss outside the temple that which occurs within the temple." "Please, brethren, do not discuss outside of the temple that which occurs in the temple."

The 10% tithing is an absolute and if needed, verified requirement for the Temple recommend and a Temple Mormon must be rechecked and interviewed by the Bishop and Stake President every 2 years.

Bishop Mitt Romney's father by the way, Bishop George Romney, tithed about 19%.

I don't think that we will see him cheating the religion and destroying his route to becoming a God and ruling a planet, I think that we will find that while minimizing his taxes, he was sending 10s of millions into Mormonism, which many of his base won't like. I think that is what will make people uneasy, brutal business in making his money, so that he could lavish it on Mormonism to convert his voter's sons and daughters away from their Christian religion.

[customerserviceguy]

49. While I dispute your 85% figure

what Hinckley was talking about was temple rituals that require a "temple recommend" to get into. It's not that hard, just go tell your bishop that you've been following all of the rules and laws of the LDS church, and don't have any behavior that someone else knows about that can conflict with that. The temple rituals are pretty goofy, and they would cause a lot of prospective converts to really get weirded out.

I really don't think that the upper echelon of the LDS church is going to do anything to screw up Mitt's chances, frankly, I'd expect them to be sending him some deniable form of rebuke.

[braddy]

55. It is that hard to become a Temple Mormon elite, for one it REQUIRES that 10% of your income goes to

the religion and the wearing of the magic under garments 24 hours a day, your ID card has to be issued every year (seriously, annual ID? even the military does not do that), you have to submit to re-qualification every 2 years, what takes place in there is secret and you are forbidden to allow the knowledge to leak out to average Mormons.

It used to require personal granting from the Holy Prophet, today it requires personal interviews and receiving permission from your Bishop and then his superior, the Stake President, and all this only last 2 years, and then you have to be re-evaluated.

[customerserviceguy]

70. I didn't say it wasn't difficult

only that I think there are more than 15% of Mormons willing to jump through the hoops to get the card. The only really verifiable part is the tithing, even without seeing someone's tax return, it's still possible to figure out what a worker makes to see if the ten percent is probably being ponied up.

In order to have or even witness a temple marriage, one has to at least fake a Morgasm to get in, and many Mormons are willing to do it, from what I've heard.

[braddy]

71. Do you have a point to make, and facts to submit? Or is this just Mormon stuff?

[customerserviceguy]

74. I'm not a Mormon

nor have I ever been one, nor will I ever be one (I really love beer and wine too damned much) my point is only that the temple-recommended Mormons are not as elite a group as they're made out to be. Many of them are more than willing to either jump through the hoops, or pretend that they have for it to be a tiny minority of them.

Whatever you want to assert about what they think, feel, and believe is fine with me, you're probably right.

[nashville_brook]

23. isn't the Bain executive team all LDS? remember this discrimination lawsuit reported in April...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/18/lawsuit-former-bain-execs-fired-employees-for-not-being-mormon/

[agentS]

24. I have heard some things that Mormonism may take a hit from Romney

While not a Mormon myself, I have heard some speculation online from various sources (one here on DU, and one on a MSM site, and on an Online magazine site) that having Romney become the president will negatively affect the perception of the religion. Mainly, it will ding their efforts to reconcile with gays after the Prop 8hate incident, and with a Mormon as the 'face' of the US, specifically foreign policy, it will dampen their efforts with getting converts overseas thru missionaries. Though I doubt there will be a situation where President R-Money calls down drone strikes which accidentally kills Mormon missionaries in Pakistan's tribal lands, it probably is something the Church is weighing.

Maybe they're trying to sink the guy before he damages the brand? That's my guess.

[cr8tvlde]

25. That is my take, as well.

Mormons have always struggled to live in a society in which they do not fully participate as a result of their beliefs. Mormon kids have a tough time and there is always a sense of being apart from most through their strong family system, the church and their high ideals and impeccable behavior.

Mitt is making a mockery of their moral high ground. (Prop 8)

[braddy]

27. The Holy Mormon Prophet gave his approval for Mitt's presidential run in a private meeting in 2005.

[agentS]

33. How much did Romney pay him?

And is he regretting it now?

[braddy]

51. Mormonism is a business.

Money is a given, for instance to become a Temple Mormon who are the only Mormons allowed into those glorious temples that we all see.

Most of us assume those are for all Mormons, but they aren't, regular Mormons, about 85% of Mormons, are limited to the plain simple church buildings that we don't even notice, they are forbidden to enter the temples and lack the ID that is re-verified and re-issued every year and which requires personal re-examination every 2 years and being interviewed by both the Bishop and his superior, the Stake President, Mitt has held both positions, (all Temple interviews used to be with the Prophet himself when the religion was smaller).

The Romneys were converted in England and then immediately immigrated to the US in 1842 to serve Joseph Smith (roughly 50 wives, 1 was 14), the Romneys are Mormon royalty, and are very powerful, producing much of the leadership and many tens of millions of dollars of wealth for the religion.

The Romneys are a family of Tom Cruises for Mormonism, by the way Harry Reid is a part of that inner circle also, he is a Temple Mormon with the 10% tithe and magic underwear day and night, and forbidden to speak on the secrets of the Temples.

[BSUbluNorange]

56. Source??

[braddy]

58. Source for what?

[BSUbluNorange]

59. That President Thomas S. Monson approved of Romney

[braddy]

60. You mean if Mitt sought audience with the Prophet in 2005 to present his desire to run for

president and received permission from the Holy Prophet of Mormonism, it might change your view of Bishop Romney?

[BSUbluNorange]

62. No, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say

I took your comment as the Prphet approved of Mitt's run and supported it/wanted him to. I'm not familiar with this conversation between them and that's why I was looking for a point of reference.

[braddy]

63. I posted this " Romney sought & recieved approval from the Holy Prophet in 2005 to run for President

Which is true of course.


This is from Sunstone Magazine November, 2005. (Sunstone Education Foundation, Inc., a 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation, that discusses Mormonism through scholarship, art, short fiction, and poetry.)

"At that time, a senior LDS official close to the First Presidency said that some members of the Quorum were dismayed at Romney’s position on abortion even if they understood it was consistent with the doctrine of agency.

They realized it would serve no purpose to quibble—the greater good was to get him elected, to give him a fair shot at realizing the victory his father booted forty years earlier."

(snip)

"As if to underscore his personal angst, as he has done in the past, he sought advice from the man he admires most in this world: Mormon president Gordon Bitner Hinckley.

The conversation eventually turned to whether a run for the presidency would be good for him and the Church. The specifics of the conversation are, of course, known only to people who were there. However, Romney left with the clear impression that the upbeat Mormon prophet was not worried one whit about the additional scrutiny a presidential campaign might focus on the Church and its teachings but was emphatic about steering wide of any and all partisan political involvements."

[BSUbluNorange]

65. Thanks for the clarification

Especially the last paragraph, thats what I thought a conversation of that nature should consist of.

[braddy]

66. It wasn't clarification, it was proving the statement that Romney sought and recieved the permission

of the Holy Prophet of Mormonism.

That last paragraph was merely speculation by a devoted mormon writer and a fellow follower of the holy Prophet, he admits that he actually knows nothing of what was said in the secret meeting as Mitt was granted permission for his effort to become President of the United States.

[BSUbluNorange]

67. Did he need permission?

I'd say no, it sounds like this was more counsel.. I guess i'm lost as to what point you're trying to make. If its that Mitt is a puppet of the church then i'm going to have to disagree with you.

[braddy]

68. Evidently Bishop Romney did, the Romneys are Mormon Royalty, all things comply with the Prophet.

[customerserviceguy]

50. Nothing could be further from the truth

They know it will be wonderful for recruitment overseas, anybody in a Third World country that gets the notion that converting to Mormonism will grease the skids on getting to immigrate to the US will not be officially discouraged from that erroneous idea by the missionaries.

They'd love with all their hearts to have Romney win the big prize. Ever since the LDS church did a U-turn after losing in the Supreme Court in the late 19th Century, they've striven for acceptance by the larger society. They think that their stands against equal marriage put them into the mainstream of American thought, and with the ballot boxes affirming that bigotry, I guess I don't blame them for thinking that most people are on their side on this issue.

I don't think missionaries of any non-Islamic religion are allowed in Pakistan or any other severely observant Muslim nation, so there's no worry about Elder Freshface being taken out by friendly fire.

[BSUbluNorange]

57. There are actually 400,000 mormons voting for Obama.

[customerserviceguy]

69. Yes, and there are black people voting for Romney

So what's your point?

[longship]

26. I thought it was a source within the Muppets.

Odds on favorite, Bert, well known to be associated with Bin Ladin.

Wish I could post the pic with my iPhone.

[MrSlayer]

28. Bert is evil.

[shanen]

30. How far should you trust Mormons?

Long version is in another post, but in short, I suspect that:

(1) Reid might be acting on orders of the Mormon elders and this is somehow a plan to defuse Rmoney's tax-returns problems.

(2) It might be a plan something like what they did to Dan Rather where they use partial twisted truths to destroy an enemy.

The truth is clearly that Romney has LOTS of things to hide in his tax returns. If the balance of the information in the tax returns was in his favor then he would obviously release them. We already know that Romney has SOMETHING to hide. If the truth was in his favor, then the longer it's out there, the better, so we know the truth is AGAINST Romney. Again.

I hate lies and liars, and Romney is even worse than Nixon in terms of lying.

Q: How do you tell when Romney is lying?

A: His lips are moving.

Only truth Romney could tell, but he never would speak this truth. Romney believes "Vote for me so that government of the corporations, by the lawyers, for the richest 0.1% of Americans, shall rule the earth."

Oh yeah, on the Mormon topic. Let's imagine you believe in god and you believe he decided to pick a new spokesman. Don't you think he could have found someone better than the convicted con man Joseph Smith? I think the LDS was created by a liar, and Rmoney is the perfect representative.

[davidpdx]

34. The answer is..

no further than you can throw them.

[customerserviceguy]

53. While I doubt that Reid takes orders

from the LDS Church (he'd 'repent' and become a Rethuglican, if that were the case) it does occur to me that he's been used as a tool. I wouldn't put it past the fathers of the LDS church to find a way to feed him a line of bullshit that could be refuted by release of the tax returns, the same way the birthers were exposed as fools by the President releasing his BC.

If that's the case, then they really went far with it, because the most 'credible' birther out there who could always get a microphone any time he wanted it was Trump. Having Harry stand on the floor of the Senate to make his ten-years-no-taxes charge must have made the perpetrators of such a scheme giggle their asses off.

Look at it this way: We all know that Mittens is going to have to cough up tax returns in order to have a shot of winning over enough independents to pull this thing off, what if it could be constructed to really have some devastating impact? If he had released the returns when first asked, months ago, it would have probably been a ho-hum, "look at his foreign investments" story. However, if the Senate Majority Leader made an outrageous charge that was simply not true, that becomes the story, and not overseas bank accounts.

[davidpdx]

35. If this is true there would be a bit of irony in the whole thing

Only time will tell. The whole thing is like a house of cards.

[Kteachums]

39. I believe Harry Reid!

Harry is not a Senator who is quick to open his mouth. He has too much at stake to lie.
If those tax returns do come out I wonder if they will be doctored? He certainly has had enough time. I wish we could prove all of this without waiting. Doesn't the US Government have this information? Anyway, if Harry said it it is "right on"!

[ancianita]

40. 'Doctoring' tax returns is a felony.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

43. Another take I read yesterday was that Reid had nothing at stake. He is upside down

in his favorability in NV and may not even run again - think it's 2016.

that is why he doesn't give a shit that Jon Stewart or anyone else trashes him.

I will try to find the article

[Laura PourMeADrink]

44. voila

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79365.html

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. What I don't get is...wouldn't it be pretty easy for Robme to figure out who talked

to Reid. Shit, how many Bain investers are friends with Reid and are Mormon??

It struck me that when Robme said "put up or shut up", he was more concerned about who said it than whether or not it was true.

Like he wanted the name, not the proof he didn't pay taxes

[DemocracyInaction]

48. Forget all this Mormon stuff

They get a shit load of money from Romney - 10% or not - and would not cut off their cash cow. He also made a lot of those boys rich out there with Olympic contracts (how much graft was that). And he would have done their bidding as Gov of Mass. The Mormons have great ambition to get into that White House. They have infiltrated many big, big businesses in this country and you can't rise up the ladder in them if you are not Mormon. Someone in Bain, I suspect, did not like him or didn't get promotions, etc. but was in a position to see and handle Mitt's finances.

[braddy]

52. I think that you have the correct view of things.

[cr8tvlde]

61. Finally, a Democrat with cojones

...balls. Hardball. Perhaps the Democrats will understand that "playing nice" and bipartisanship is an ancient political memory of the past. This race is so important because, if for no other reason, the SCOTUS. They never term out, die (hardly) or have accountability to we little people. Word is 3 want to retire and 2 of them from the Right persuasion, but if a Democrat is elected, they will stay on. Imagine who Mitt would send over there.

Too bad Reid is about to retire, and even worse why that was the reason he could do what he did. Questions about taxes are NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING close to the smear websites, the joker poster, digging up deceased grandmother and mother and half brothers trampling on them, calling abominable names, gun and cross hairs, shaming Michelle and making fun of her, making fun of his religion and his pastor...ad nauseum.

Hell, one mention of great grandpas 12 wives sent Right and Left pulling up the proverbial covers to hide.

Sorry, they set the bar. Now, can we get more than Harry Reid to join in defense of anything or anyone Left of the Center Right?

[reACTIONary]

64. You are right, if for no other reason, the SCOTUS (NT)

[ThomThom]

73. Somebody should ask the church if rMoney is the guy they have been expecting

to save the country when Pres.
My information is he is not.