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portlander23

(2,078 posts)
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:30 AM Sep 2015

Salon: Three days in Iowa that explain why Hillary’s fading and the Dems have a new front-runner

Behind the scenes with Bernie Sanders: Three days in Iowa that explain why Hillary’s fading and the Dems have a new front-runner

His events have drawn the primary season’s largest turnouts, and he’s banked donations from more Americans—400,000 and counting—than any other candidate. Just days before coming to Iowa, a poll showed him leading Clinton in the critical New Hampshire race for the first time, and less than a month later, he’d take his first lead in Iowa. Meanwhile, national polls indicate that he’s cut Clinton’s national lead in half since June—a trajectory that looks very similar to Barack Obama’s rise in 2008.

This surprising grass-roots success, without the aid of a super PAC or corporate millions, stems from a very simple message: Wealth inequality is destroying the American middle class and leading to increased job loss and poverty.

It boils down to one critical factor—unlike every other candidate, in either party, Sanders doesn’t seem to care if he loses. While the rest of the field prioritizes victory, he’ll stay loyal to his favorite theme, even at the cost of defeat.

Which makes him a terrifying outsider in the Democratic primaries. There’s no good way to attack Sanders personally; how do you impugn a man whose idiosyncrasies are his strength, and who, as far as progressives are concerned, has rarely taken a false ideological step?

92 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Salon: Three days in Iowa that explain why Hillary’s fading and the Dems have a new front-runner (Original Post) portlander23 Sep 2015 OP
Salon pretends the email pseudoscandal has nothing to do with Sanders' rise Ashdric Sep 2015 #1
I think you are in for a hard fall if you believe that Skwmom Sep 2015 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Sep 2015 #3
The email "scandal" is nothing more than empty "spectacle" fanned... ReallyIAmAnOptimist Sep 2015 #5
+1 leftofcool Sep 2015 #6
Ha, Eric Cantor's *insider* polls had him up by 34 points. SMC22307 Sep 2015 #12
Insiders polling insiders. Fuddnik Sep 2015 #15
"insider polls" cherokeeprogressive Sep 2015 #18
Insider polls aren't really worth much... Chan790 Sep 2015 #25
Exactly. High Voter turnout IS the ONLY way Dems win in GE, period. 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #29
nothing conventional applies to this election We are in revolution at long last. roguevalley Sep 2015 #30
And how exactly is that going to happen? mythology Sep 2015 #39
"The winner of the delegates resulting from the primaries and caucuses will be the nominee." Chan790 Sep 2015 #40
I had an insider poll done... Fairgo Sep 2015 #49
. Marty McGraw Sep 2015 #86
"her insider polls" cui bono Sep 2015 #33
The endorsements come from Democrats with the same Donor base as Hillary's. Dustlawyer Sep 2015 #87
The slimy Republicans with the dedicated assistance of the MSM have done her real damage. olegramps Sep 2015 #8
They are just warming up! pocoloco Sep 2015 #57
Yes, I also think the email "non-scandal" is the reason for her polling numbers to drop a bit. DCBob Sep 2015 #9
It is funny that this "customized" chart Blus4u Sep 2015 #20
Correct. This one shows more detail and is more informative what is actually happening. DCBob Sep 2015 #21
Look where the line for Sept 7th is. artislife Sep 2015 #60
I like "custom charts" delrem Sep 2015 #67
I think it's time for Biden to make a decision OnlinePoker Sep 2015 #64
The emails aren't the problem jopacaco Sep 2015 #16
Yep. I've never been concerned in the least about the email non-issue. 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #31
Same here. I guess the email thing goes to her judgment and the judgement of those around her, but Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #58
All this and the fact that she hifiguy Sep 2015 #68
I feel exactly the same. I could care less about the e-mail thing. But the TPP is a real problem. Enthusiast Sep 2015 #50
I also think the email talk is a red herring, a pseudo-scandal. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #73
The Base doesn't WANT another moderate who wants to work with Republicans.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #17
If we elect another so-called moderate, then we've already lost. Broward Sep 2015 #19
It gets me because the Republicans don't value "working together"..... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #23
What is that tool used for? Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #53
Cutting off the balls of hogs. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #54
So the gop is calling the Dems hogs then? In response, the D plaque might look like this... Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #55
^^^this. artislife Sep 2015 #61
Dems negotiate by begging for permission and appealing to a fictitious middle.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #81
I think most people don't give a flying leap off a shallow curb regarding the e-mail story... 1monster Sep 2015 #22
+++. Excellent post. SheilaT Sep 2015 #44
Wow! Great post! Enthusiast Sep 2015 #51
You know we all need to see photos! artislife Sep 2015 #62
Yeah. I was tempted to post one, but my son is really into privacy... He would 1monster Sep 2015 #74
I understand completely artislife Sep 2015 #76
So true. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #78
I think you need to do some more studying. Look into jwirr Sep 2015 #24
Great Post!! Thespian2 Sep 2015 #65
Like I have said before. WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2015 #82
keep telling yourself that rjsquirrel Sep 2015 #26
Exactly Right Rilgin Sep 2015 #43
Basically, it was dumb artislife Sep 2015 #63
salon is led by joan walsh who is 2000% for hillary and was last time too. I remember her roguevalley Sep 2015 #28
Joan likes her bread buttered on both sides. Major Hogwash Sep 2015 #70
People have had decades to develop a filter for such reporting Babel_17 Sep 2015 #32
If you really do believe that you've simply got your head in the sand. cui bono Sep 2015 #36
^^ also Locrian Sep 2015 #69
Because it hasn't. Fawke Em Sep 2015 #37
I read it as 98% Pope Sweet Jesus Sep 2015 #52
True shenmue Sep 2015 #56
Oddly, you seem quite good at baiting. nt artislife Sep 2015 #59
Welcome to another low post count anti-Sanders poster. Where are they coming from. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #75
Hillary's real problem is, Hillary. She is a policy wonk WestSeattle2 Sep 2015 #85
The way to deal with the email "scandal" (as well as all the rest of the trumped up bullshit)-- eridani Sep 2015 #89
Totally agree. It's a shame she isn't the "whole package", WestSeattle2 Sep 2015 #91
That is exactly why I've never seriously considered running for office myself eridani Sep 2015 #92
Hello? in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #4
With lies, of course. L. Coyote Sep 2015 #72
His idiosyncrasies are also his weaknesses. DCBob Sep 2015 #7
'There's no GOOD way to attack Sanders'! True, which is why they are resorting to unethical sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #10
Agree! n/t dae Sep 2015 #13
Hillary and the corporate wing of the Democratic Party are part of the problem Broward Sep 2015 #11
Bernie is We the People's last-chance candidate. <-this. -nt- 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #34
I don't think he's the new front runner. But he's getting there. n/t Skwmom Sep 2015 #14
Kick and R BeanMusical Sep 2015 #27
Same ol' same ol' AlbertCat Sep 2015 #35
Her support is broad but not very deep LittleBlue Sep 2015 #38
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #41
The most astute and true sentence Catherina Sep 2015 #42
yes he seems to be our last,best chance to save this democracy questionseverything Sep 2015 #46
I disagree. As much as I like Sanders, he is not the end all be all of this movement. liberal_at_heart Sep 2015 #47
However, the Democratic Party will have spoken, and it will have the voice of Ronald Reagan Scootaloo Sep 2015 #71
Sad but true. nt raouldukelives Sep 2015 #90
Like I have said before. WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2015 #84
I don't like that sentence and I don't believe it's true. We grass-root Americans believe in rhett o rick Sep 2015 #83
There is nothing more unpredictable or dangerous as someone with nothing to lose. liberal_at_heart Sep 2015 #45
We can't afford not to have President Bernie Sanders. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #48
but, but, but, but...... Hillary™ has what voters crave! Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #66
ALL THAT YELLING: YOU'D THINK THEY WERE DESPERATE! truebluegreen Sep 2015 #80
That's just such a great article. Thanks for posting it. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #77
it is not email, nor that Hillary DonCoquixote Sep 2015 #79
It's really simple LittleGirl Sep 2015 #88
 

Ashdric

(29 posts)
1. Salon pretends the email pseudoscandal has nothing to do with Sanders' rise
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:46 AM
Sep 2015

Let me help you, gossip website: People have been falsely led to believe Hillary broke the law with those emails, and that's by far the reason she has slipped in the polls.
Sanders' awesomeness wouldn't have placed him in the good spot he is now had the NYT and the rest of the MSM not inflated this pseudoscandal like they did Whitewater.

But Salon has to pander to its base.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
2. I think you are in for a hard fall if you believe that
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:53 AM
Sep 2015

and with all the accusations about how Bernie has cult followers, I can assure you that if Bernie had done what Clinton did (emails, SOS transactions, Clinton Foundation, and speaking fees) I would NOT be supporting him.



Response to Skwmom (Reply #2)

5. The email "scandal" is nothing more than empty "spectacle" fanned...
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:30 AM
Sep 2015

...by the press and GOP. But you understand that. So do most Democrats, and could care less.
Bernie's success is his own.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
12. Ha, Eric Cantor's *insider* polls had him up by 34 points.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:14 AM
Sep 2015

Congressman Dave Brat is now telling the story:





 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
25. Insider polls aren't really worth much...
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:06 PM
Sep 2015

and if Clinton secures the nomination solely on the back of her endorsements...the GE is going to look like 1984.



You should hope you are wrong and Clinton loses the primary if that's the best you have...because all you have is a lock-loser for the GE if you have a nominee chosen by the party leadership over the will of the rank-and-file Democratic voters.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
29. Exactly. High Voter turnout IS the ONLY way Dems win in GE, period.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:27 PM
Sep 2015

And like it or not, Bernie is the odds-on favorite to generate the most grass-roots enthusiasm
that the Party needs to win. It couldn't be more obvious.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
39. And how exactly is that going to happen?
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 01:20 PM
Sep 2015

Do you think the DNC is going to look at the Iowa results and cancel the other primaries/caucuses?

It's just silly to claim that somehow the DNC is going to give Hillary the win only on superdelegates or endorsements. The winner of the delegates resulting from the primaries and caucuses will be the nominee.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
40. "The winner of the delegates resulting from the primaries and caucuses will be the nominee."
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 01:25 PM
Sep 2015

I hope so...but I am talking about a very specific circumstance where Sanders (or someone else) wins the majority of the caucus and primary delegates by a wide margin but Clinton's superdelegate endorsements put her over the top to be the nominee. I expect all hell will break loose and we'll never be competitive in the GE if that happens.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
87. The endorsements come from Democrats with the same Donor base as Hillary's.
Mon Sep 21, 2015, 12:20 AM
Sep 2015

This is the cancer of our time when politicians ability to stay in office are completely tied to the wealthy corporate donors. If Bernie is elected and spawns a political revolution, those endorsers currently in office stand to lose their office in the following wave pushing Publicly Funded Elections. That is if they don't convincingly jump on the bandwagon.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
8. The slimy Republicans with the dedicated assistance of the MSM have done her real damage.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:47 AM
Sep 2015

They have poisoned the people minds and have done nothing to set the record straight. Their silence has been damning.

 

pocoloco

(3,180 posts)
57. They are just warming up!
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 05:56 PM
Sep 2015

Just doing a little sparing before the main event.

They damn sure don't want to hurt her enough that she
doesn't get the nomination!!

That's when the real shitstorm will start!!

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
9. Yes, I also think the email "non-scandal" is the reason for her polling numbers to drop a bit.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:48 AM
Sep 2015

However I think we are already seeing a rebound in the latest national polls from past couple of weeks.



Note the slight increase in Hillary's trend line since Sept 1. We shall see but I think the fake scandal has run its course.

Blus4u

(608 posts)
20. It is funny that this "customized" chart
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:53 AM
Sep 2015

keeps showing up in thread after thread.
I have seen the same chart (as released by the pollster) without the customization and it tells a different story.

Peace

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
21. Correct. This one shows more detail and is more informative what is actually happening.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:56 AM
Sep 2015

The others have the "smoothing" option which hides the detail. You cant see the bump up at the end which I believe is real.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
60. Look where the line for Sept 7th is.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 06:31 PM
Sep 2015

That is where the small increase starts.

But it is a stop of falling and a start of rising, I will give you that.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
67. I like "custom charts"
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:22 PM
Sep 2015

I guess this is the chart that was "customized".
Last updated two days ago. Seems like a lot of room for "customization" there!
The road down can be hair raising, and when the falling candidate bounces off a rock on the way down it doesn't necessarily signify a new trajectory! Or even the ultimate splat.

What's most interesting about the chart is the proof that Biden's undeclared but very real candidacy is having an impact.

OnlinePoker

(5,722 posts)
64. I think it's time for Biden to make a decision
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:09 PM
Sep 2015

You're in or you're out...stop waffling. If he goes, the polls will stop being so skewed and we might actually see some clarity in the numbers.

jopacaco

(133 posts)
16. The emails aren't the problem
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:22 AM
Sep 2015

My opposition to Hillary has absolutely nothing to do with the email issue. It is a media non-issue as far as I am concerned. My problems are with with Hillary herself; her vote for the Iraq War, her refusal to take a stand on the TPP, and her close ties to Wall Street. I want to support a politician who has principles.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
31. Yep. I've never been concerned in the least about the email non-issue.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:32 PM
Sep 2015

to me it's the TPP, being bought by Wall St./MIC/Private Prisons <- (toxic mix if ever there was one).

Not to mention Keystone Pipeline, getting serious about climate change, hawkish foreign policies, etc.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
58. Same here. I guess the email thing goes to her judgment and the judgement of those around her, but
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 06:21 PM
Sep 2015

it is an issue that is so far secondary it is almost unmentionable. What moves me is her positionand how she plans to help the American people support their families. She has chosen a side. It is the wrong side.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
68. All this and the fact that she
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:26 PM
Sep 2015

Shamelessly flatters the likes of Henry fucking Kissinger, War Criminal.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
50. I feel exactly the same. I could care less about the e-mail thing. But the TPP is a real problem.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 05:06 PM
Sep 2015

And the close ties to Wall Street.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
73. I also think the email talk is a red herring, a pseudo-scandal.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 08:03 PM
Sep 2015

I like Bernie because of what he says he wants to do for ordinary Americans.

The DNC will come around if we win the support of Democratic voters who really want to get out and vote for Bernie.

I suggest that those who are skeptical about Bernie's appeal get a Bernie button or tee-shirt and wear it around for a few days. Try it in airports, train stations, even your local grocery store. Watch the reaction. You may be surprised.

I met a woman wearing a Bernie tee shirt in a dress shop.

So far I haven't seen any Hillary buttons or tee shirts. None.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
17. The Base doesn't WANT another moderate who wants to work with Republicans....
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:39 AM
Sep 2015

Like Bernie says, all that does is lead you into a discussion about how much we should cut Social Security instead of EXPANDING Social Security.

BTW: Why is it the Republicans can pick a radical right winger but the Dems act TERRIFIED if an actual Liberal is on the ballot? The claim that "This is a Center Right County" was NEVER true. Bill Clinton RAN as a Liberal and governed as a Conservative and the DLC had the NERVE to claim his being a Conservative was the reason for his success. The voter turnout in his reelection was the LOWEST in history because people were unenthusiastic about him. Good thing the Republicans were also unenthusiastic about Bob Dole.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
61. ^^^this.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 06:35 PM
Sep 2015
the Dems act TERRIFIED if an actual Liberal


We need to be as fearless in our beliefs as republicans are. We have to fight to further left and with who is running on the other side, we CAN!
 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
81. Dems negotiate by begging for permission and appealing to a fictitious middle....
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:29 PM
Sep 2015

Republicans negotiate by stepping on your neck and shooting you in the head at the first sign of weakness.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
22. I think most people don't give a flying leap off a shallow curb regarding the e-mail story...
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 11:57 AM
Sep 2015

The only stand out thing about the whole thing is that it serves to highlight Hillary's evasiveness. She hardly needed that since her whole campaign has been avoiding giving straight answers. It might be, as some have suggested, just her lawyerly style. But it is not serving her well.

When my son was young, we used to do Star Trek conventions. I costumed him as Q one year and entered him into the costume contest, thinking he had a good chance at the junior prize. There was a woman there who had built a very good Borg costume. We were all sure she would wind first prize. When the junior contest winners were other than my son, my husband started to put away his cameras. I suddenly realized that our son was in the running for either first, second, or third in the general contest and told him to get them back out fast.

My son, a two and a half foot tall Q was impossibly cute. The Borg woman was imposing and probably should have won first prize, but my son did.

As I told her at the time, "Sorry! But you just can't beat cute."

In this particular primary run, Hillary is a formidable candidate. But she is running against Bernie who glows authenticity, integrity and a message which really resonates with people who have been watching their futures grow smaller and leaner for too many years. And you just can't beat that package.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
74. Yeah. I was tempted to post one, but my son is really into privacy... He would
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 08:04 PM
Sep 2015

be very angry with me if I posted them, even though they are now 20 years old.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
76. I understand completely
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 08:27 PM
Sep 2015

You gotta be safe and it really is not cool when a parent does it!

I will just have to use my imagination.

Boy, is he CUTE!!

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
24. I think you need to do some more studying. Look into
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:00 PM
Sep 2015

what Bernie is saying and think about what is going wrong in this country. Income stagnation, wealth inequality, outsourcing, one war after another, racial injustice, rule by greedy corporations, etc. I think you will find that speaks to a lot of people in this country. And one of the biggest issues of all is Citizen United and money in politics. Bernie is not only talking about it he is doing something about it.

Most of us Bernie supporters do not believe that there is a crime regarding the e-mails. At the most we think that it was a poor decision to use a private server for government business. Many of the problems that both Bill and Hillary Clinton have are the poor decisions they have made. Using a private server, the Communications Act, tough on crime laws, welfare reform, Glass-Steagall. These are all ideas that have backfired for the 99% and worked for the 1%.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
82. Like I have said before.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:40 PM
Sep 2015

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
26. keep telling yourself that
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:15 PM
Sep 2015

It will mean you fail to notice the water starting to boil in your frog pot.


Hillary f'd up. Her calculating, triangulating, say anything to win approach failed against the authenticity of Obama and it is failing against the even greater authenticity of Sanders.

She exudes a willingness to consider voters dumb. Bad strategy with progressives.

It is not a pseudo scandal. She really did hide her email from the public record. Whether Colun Powell also did it is not the point. And then she spun it for months as nothing.

It symbolizes everything progressives dislike about her. I've been a registered independent for 10 years now, but I just registered as a dem in my state so I can vote in the primary.

For Bernie, and I entered his season resigned to supporting Clinton. I'm part of her poll slippage.

Rilgin

(787 posts)
43. Exactly Right
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 02:49 PM
Sep 2015

The email problem is very exaggerated by the right wing who want to tie it to a truly made up scandal ... something about Bengazi. However, as a smaller problem it is very real.

Hillary setting up her own email server to avoid or control either leaks or Freedom of Information Act requests is wrong on its own. It is not the most extreme scandal in the history of this country as will be claimed by the right wing but it is a problem for exactly the reasons given by Rjsquirrel in reply 26.

It was wrong on its face. Just because republicans did it does not mean our politicians should do it. It reinforces her characterization as one who evades truth which itself is true. Her attempts to justify the act are evasive and untrue. It takes more thinking process to set up an email server than to use an email provided by your IT department. Her defense on the classification of the email she originated was particularly misleading. Presumably she was the only person who saw the emails before she hit "send" and if she did not mark the email classified it would not be marked classified. The only issue is whether the information contained in an email (not the email itself as a document) was classified.

Ultimately, the email issue is a problem both because it is a problem on its own and because of the right wing exaggerations will fire up the republican base and influence less informed voters.

And last, I want to agree with Rjssquirrel that I am also in the HRC poll slippage. I would have held my nose and pulled the lever for the inevitable candidate who I knew was both warlike, corporate and for the status quo but not a republican. Polls would have showed me as a HRC supporter a year ago.

I am extremely grateful that there is another candidate in the primaries that I can actually support as a democrat who does not have baggage, is honest and straightforward and has good progressive issues and history.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
63. Basically, it was dumb
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 06:43 PM
Sep 2015

Dumb.

She has been hounded since 1992, she knows they will look for anything and she does this. It doesn't give me any hope that she can learn a lesson that has been showing up again, and again, and again for decades.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
28. salon is led by joan walsh who is 2000% for hillary and was last time too. I remember her
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:25 PM
Sep 2015

making disparaging remarks about obama on tv. I haven't subbed to salon since.

edit; there are plenty on both sides who vote against their best interests. republicans don't have a lock on that

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
70. Joan likes her bread buttered on both sides.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:53 PM
Sep 2015

So, she tries to butter both sides during the primaries in order to maximize her odds of being right . . eventually.

Joan criticized President Obama so much on Facebook during his first term that I started ignoring her before the election in 2012 because I thought she was going to start bragging about voting for Mitt Romney!!
The thing that bothers me about talking heads like her, who go on tv all of the time, is that they will still have their cushy job criticizing politicians whether the President is a Democrat or a Republican.

Joan is just like Chris Matthews, Billo the Klown, and Sean Insanity, in that her job is secure, and her paychecks will keep coming every week, even after America gets screwed by another ginormous missing village idiot like Dimson, when he got placed in to the White House by the Supremely Stupid Court.





cui bono

(19,926 posts)
36. If you really do believe that you've simply got your head in the sand.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:42 PM
Sep 2015

Hillary has slipped in the polls because she was the front runner due to name recognition alone. Bernie was pretty much unknown to those who don't follow politics that closely. He's now pulling ahead because the people are getting to know him and they love his authenticity and integrity. That's what the article means when it says he doesn't care if he loses, he stands on principle, may it win or lose. He's not going to "evolve" in order to get more votes. He'll get the votes he gets based on who he is and the policies he stands for.

People were familiar with Hillary but not that enthused about her. People are becoming familiar with Bernie and are very excited about him.

FEEL THE BERN!




Locrian

(4,522 posts)
69. ^^ also
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:50 PM
Sep 2015

Also - I think the Bernie support is growing roots. People see there is depth to him - not like the shallow "we can maybe tolerate this person for 4 years" corporate candidates.

>>People were familiar with Hillary but not that enthused about her. People are becoming familiar with Bernie and are very excited about him.

Exactly. A rising stock vs a falling stock. Plus depth to burn..... it's going to be very interesting...

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
37. Because it hasn't.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 01:02 PM
Sep 2015

Read the internals on any poll that asks: most people who are voting for Bernie are voting for Bernie because they like his positions. It was 96 percent in one poll. The same poll also showed that 76 percent didn't give one shit about the email scandal - they just liked Bernie's positions better.

I can't remember which poll that was off the top of my head, but it was all over DU when it was first posted.

 

Pope Sweet Jesus

(62 posts)
52. I read it as 98%
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 05:16 PM
Sep 2015

with only 2% citing their reason as anti-Hillary.

The rest are for Bernie because he's Bernie.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
75. Welcome to another low post count anti-Sanders poster. Where are they coming from.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 08:05 PM
Sep 2015

Another clue is that this poster got the number one response slot. The best place to try to derail a thread.

I don't care because, they can throw at us what they may, this is the fight for the lives of the 99%.


WestSeattle2

(1,730 posts)
85. Hillary's real problem is, Hillary. She is a policy wonk
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:16 PM
Sep 2015

not a politician. She simply is unable to connect with people. Her best contributions were as First Lady and Senator. I've been watching her for 25 years, and she is simply not likable as a politician. The fact that two old men who can connect with people are threats to her candidacy, speaks volumes.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
89. The way to deal with the email "scandal" (as well as all the rest of the trumped up bullshit)--
Mon Sep 21, 2015, 03:40 AM
Sep 2015

--is as a politician, not as a lawyer. Ever since Vince Foster, there has been a barrage of nonsense thrown at both Clintons. Fighting like a politician means calling out attacks loudly, publicly and constantly, not being cautious, secretive, answering questions in a very hedged and scripted manner, etc. Those things are good if you are fighting a legal case, but not if you re fighting a political battle.

WestSeattle2

(1,730 posts)
91. Totally agree. It's a shame she isn't the "whole package",
Mon Sep 21, 2015, 12:12 PM
Sep 2015

because she is qualified and extremely intelligent. But if you can't connect with people, your best contributions will be behind the scenes. And there isn't anything wrong with that, to me it's not a negative, it just is. There are really very few individuals who are both wonks and good with people.

Even in normal workplaces, the Engineering and Accounting departments are not bastions of empathy and nuanced communications, yet that's where the brains of many operations are found.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
92. That is exactly why I've never seriously considered running for office myself
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 02:18 AM
Sep 2015

But I am a hell of a database manager and canvasser for those who do.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
4. Hello?
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:06 AM
Sep 2015

>>>"There’s no good way to attack Sanders personally; how do you impugn a man whose idiosyncrasies are his strength, and who, as far as progressives are concerned, has rarely taken a false ideological step?"

Spot on! He always been who he is! Honest, forthright, consistent and - determined to help the middle class!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
10. 'There's no GOOD way to attack Sanders'! True, which is why they are resorting to unethical
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:52 AM
Sep 2015

sneay, 'blinded by the right' operatives like David Brock to try to attack him with innuendo and deceptions and lies. And the more they do that, the more SUPPORT Bernie gets because this is precisely what the people are SICK of.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
11. Hillary and the corporate wing of the Democratic Party are part of the problem
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:53 AM
Sep 2015

not the solution. Bernie could be our last chance to take this country back from the oligarchs.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
35. Same ol' same ol'
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 12:38 PM
Sep 2015

The GOP revolution in the 80's and 90's is clearly NOT working. This includes Dems who try to emulate the GOP revolution message. Clinton is part of the same ol' same ol' we've had for decades and has not worked for decades. Even her name is same ol' same ol'. Even the e-mail scandal /non-scandal reeks of the same ol' same ol'.

This is why she is slipping.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
38. Her support is broad but not very deep
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 01:06 PM
Sep 2015

Wonder how many Hillary supporters are committed to her. Seems like she's benefitting from name recognition more than anything she's done in Iowa. She should have crowds much larger than Bernie's if the pols are any indication.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
42. The most astute and true sentence
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 02:18 PM
Sep 2015
"Beneath the joy, there was the darker sense that Sanders might represent the last chance for progressive politics in America. When this feeling goes away, it doesn’t come back."

questionseverything

(9,656 posts)
46. yes he seems to be our last,best chance to save this democracy
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 03:35 PM
Sep 2015

what we bernie supporters have got to realize is to beat first the democratic machine and then the repub machine we are going to need overwhelming numbers

obama had an 8 point lead in the polls going into the nh primary, and yet the machine output said hillary won

another problem is there are less caucuses than in 08, caucuses are really difficult to "adjust" ,obama knew all of this, hopefully bernie does too

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
47. I disagree. As much as I like Sanders, he is not the end all be all of this movement.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 03:40 PM
Sep 2015

Elizabeth Warren supporters, Occupy, Bernie supporters. It is we the people that are this movement, not one candidate. He said on Rachael Maddow that if he loses he wants the people to keep fighting. This is not going to be an easy or quick victory. Taking control away from the rich and powerful will likely take years. We have to be strong enough to keep this fight going no matter who is leading the charge.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
71. However, the Democratic Party will have spoken, and it will have the voice of Ronald Reagan
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:56 PM
Sep 2015

KIf Hillary is the nominee and wins, it "proves" that the progressive agenda is a loser.

If Hillary is the nominee and loses, then it will be the "fault" of progressives, who will need to have any position stripped as punishment.

saw it plain and clear in 2014. Every win was despite progressives, every loss was because of progressives.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
84. Like I have said before.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:47 PM
Sep 2015
Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
83. I don't like that sentence and I don't believe it's true. We grass-root Americans believe in
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:43 PM
Sep 2015

freedom and liberty and will fight against the tyranny of the wealthy 1%. Senator Sanders is currently leading the Movement, but he isn't the movement. The Oligarchs and their puppets may be successful in defeating Sen Sanders for the presidency, but he isn't going to just go away. And the movement isn't going to just go away.

H. Clinton and the DNC may be able to steal the nomination, but they are in for a big surprise. We aren't going away.

And I want to say that this is a morality issue. It is immoral for our country to have 22% of our children living in poverty. Those that support the status quo are supporting this terrible blight.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
45. There is nothing more unpredictable or dangerous as someone with nothing to lose.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 03:08 PM
Sep 2015

This can be said about Bernie and it can be said about the American people. Bernie cares more about fighting income inequality than winning one single election while all the other politicians are so terrified of losing they can't help but take money from super PACs, and the American people have already been slipping into poverty for more than 30 years. They know we are only in for more of the same and are reaching a breaking point.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
66. but, but, but, but...... Hillary™ has what voters crave!
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:18 PM
Sep 2015

WE PAID GOOD MONEY FOR THIS POLL TESTING, MARKET RESEARCH AND EXTENSIVE REBRANDING!

WHY WONT THEY BUY OUR HEAVILY PROMOTED CANDIDATE PRODUCT?

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
80. ALL THAT YELLING: YOU'D THINK THEY WERE DESPERATE!
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 09:02 PM
Sep 2015

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
oh wait....THEY PROBABLY ARE DESPERATE!


DON'T LEAVE HILLARY ALOOOOOOONE!

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
79. it is not email, nor that Hillary
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 08:41 PM
Sep 2015

does not, for all her flaws, have some good points.

The problem is that the people running her campaign cannot accent the good points, not weaken the bad points, because their entire strategy is defense, and worse, a defense that tires to risk as little as possible while the offense fights aggressively.

Debbie W. Schultz, that strategy may work in Florida, where you and your good friends in the GOP can agree to make sure that no one that threatens your cushy seat or their cushy seat comes up. Frankly, when Clinton, who is being BILLED as a fighter, does not clarify her position on anything, she arouses suspicions. It does not help that when she does do so, she uses language like "I will put the white house on notice" as if Obama was her manservant.

The frustrating thing is that yes, this is what happened in 2008, and instead of cleaning house of the parasites whose main job is to rpeserve the current order of the Democratic party, Hillary is doing everything the same way again.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
88. It's really simple
Mon Sep 21, 2015, 01:31 AM
Sep 2015

Hillary is not likable enough. Seriously, I don't give a rat's ass what Salon says, Hillary is just a politician and please, so is Joe Biden. Bernie is the only life long politician I will vote for because he's likable, his message is long past due and I truly believe that he will follow through on his ideas. People have responded to his message because he's cut from a different cloth. #FeelTheBern

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