Froma Harrop: Support the Establishment Because Movement Politicians are Mean!

[mhatrw]

Here's my summary of Froma Harrop's newest column:

"Cornel West was mean to Obama! Bernie Sanders said something mean to someone 43 years ago! Movement politics is mean! Because I said so! So vote for whatever candidate the establishment and corporate media serves up!"

Not a single mention of the issues the West and Obama differ on. Not a single mention of any of the issue stances or ideas that have fueled Sanders' growing popularity. Not a trace of substance to be found. Nothing but a strained, speculative, petty personality critique. What a perfect representation of how corporate media cover "politics" in 2015.

At least it shows that the establishment is getting desperate and worried.

[Armstead]

1. What';s so ironic....

She is simultaneously criticizing the PC tendency of "movement politics" while simultaneously engaging in them herself.

[Fawke Em]

2. And on that note:

DeRay McKesson and other members of Black Lives Matter will be meeting with Bernie Sanders this afternoon in DC.

https://twitter.com/deray

BLM would like to know what you'd like to #AskBernie, so shoot DeRay a Tweet if you have a question.

[Cheese Sandwich]

3. This is what really scares them

[GitRDun]

4. Same ole Same ole from a Sanders supporter

You miss the point entirely in a frantic defense of "your guy". This is the point:

Everyone is entitled to criticize Obama's policies, but beating him up in racial terms is crude and unfair. Being black himself does not excuse West from the racial extortion he practices. (By the way, why can't an African-American be a Rockefeller Republican if he so chooses?)

Not only hasn't Sanders condemned these remarks but also his campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, defends them. Weaver says of West: "He's a forceful voice for understanding the intersection of racial justice and economic justice. He understands very well Bernie's message."

Boy, are these guys tone-deaf.

I wouldn't give a crap about anyone criticizing what I do, but assaulting who I am is out of bounds for me, you, all of us. Isn't that the whole notion behind minority rights, women's rights, LGBT rights?

I absolutely don't care if Sanders and West align themselves. It would be nice if people on DU could at least be fair in their analysis.

[Cheese Sandwich]

5. Throwing a brick through a window is crude and unfair too. People still do it.

Burning down the CVS is Baltimore was pretty crude. People did it though.

And rioting was defended on DU too. And that's fine.

Cornel West insulted the president because that's his version of burning down the neighborhood..

The guy has been arrested multiple times in peaceful civil disobedience in different causes.

But nobody pays any attention until he calls the president a personal insult.

[GitRDun]

6. What do you mean by that?

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. Cornel West is not "respectable" to some

But I respect him anyway.

That's like the only thing people talk about with Cornel West, he insulted the president.

That's really annoying. There is so work and effort that he does. He uses his position to fight for the people.

[GitRDun]

8. You can respect whoever you want.

The OP can as well. As can every other Bernie supporter for that matter.

It is however disingenuous to say the motive behind the article is worry or desperation.

Arguing the President's policies or governing style sucks is all fair game...some of his policies do suck.

It's entirely another matter to say the President is an outsider, not worthy of being sworn in using MLK's Bible, and other comments like that.

It is so disheartening, on a progressive web site to see people routinely defend statements by a person that attempts to dismantle who a person IS...not just their policies...but who they ARE as a human being.

It just strikes me as being so lost in getting "our guy Bernie" elected that we forget not everyone is perfect and a few things really do matter.

When you tell LGBT folks they are not fit for marriage, you dismantle who they are...we don't accept that on DU.

When you say a transgender person is not fit for a bathroom of their chosen gender, you are knocking down who they ARE...not acceptable on DU.

When you deny the historical rape culture we have in this society, the demeaning nature of telling women what they can do with their bodies and paying them less than a man even though they are just as able, you are telling them who they are isn't good enough...not acceptable on DU.

Yet with all these good things about DU, you expect me to listen to "I respect him anyway" even though he attacks the President not for just his policies but who he is?

It's not an insult that should annoy you. It's a behavior flaw that should offend you if you care about people.

[Cheese Sandwich]

12. When you tell LGBT their voices don't matter you are wrong

When you tell trans people their voices don't matter you are wrong.

When you deny the historical rape culture we have in this society, you are wrong.

When you try to dictate what is the correct way for black people to protest you are wrong.

Dr. West is free to insult the president all day. It IS over policy and not because of who he is, contrary to your claim.

He did it to draw attention to the policy issues. Issues that were ignored otherwise, despite years of peaceful organizing and non-violent protest.

[GitRDun]

13. Well, at least I learned something about a person who calls themselves Cheese Sandwich

My best to you.

[mhatrw]

14. Pot meet kettle. Cornell West is an activist agitator. Bernie Sanders is a movement candidate.

Hypocrite Froma Harrop attacks both because of who they are and mentions nothing about their issue stances, ideas or policy differences with Obama.

Cornell West, who has spent his life trying to bring attention to racial inequities, is bad because he use provocative language to bring attention to racial inequities. You expect me to "respect her anyway" even though she attacks West not for his policies but for who he is?

Bernie Sanders, who has spent his life trying to be a voice for political reform and political integrity, is bad because he sometimes acts "holier than thou." You expect me to "respect her anyway" even though she attacks Sanders not for his policies but for who he is?

Movement politics, which seek to upend a corrupt and rigged system of politics, are bad because they refuse to see the situation through the eyes of the corruptors and riggers. You expect me to "respect her anyway" even though she attacks movement politics not for their policies but for what they are?

[GitRDun]

18. Your response is nonsensical

She does not attack West for who he is, she criticizes West for attacking the President who HE is.

Given the falseness of your premise there is no need to deal with your second thought. You are free as some Sanders supporters are to continue this tiresome process of jumping all over anything or anyone who has even the slightest thought about your guy that you don't like. It doesn't mean anyone else has to accept your blind spots.

There is nothing in either the article or the Daily show bit that attacks West for policies at all. You are way off base here.

I also made no comment in anything I said about Bernie, but I'll try to assemble what her evidence is that Bernie Sanders can be a bit of a holier than thou guy:

1). Mother Jones related a story from 1972 that demonstrates it.
2). Former Congressman Barney Frank says that is his attitude.

OK so she makes an allegation based on two facts..no behind the scenes attribution. Big deal, then disagree with her. I have no problem with that.

I've said this half a dozen times but I'll say it again to you. You can love Cornell West, love his relationship with Bernie, all good by me. I'm trying to provide information on why I think associating with West might not achieve Sander's goal. Believe me, this is not the first author to criticize West for his attacks on the President's character.

If it works out great for him, good on him. However, as much as I like Bernie, if he can't attract voters from all walks of life, I won't vote for him because he won't be able to lead anything.

[leftofcool]

9. The point is purposefully missed.

[GitRDun]

10. You are definitely right on there

What bothers me is that there seems to be this psychology out there that nothing Bernie ever says or does is anything less than perfect.... and any criticism is a smear.

There's a couple HRC posters that do this as well, but not near the volume as the Bernie folks. I sure would like to understand why.

I voted for President Obama twice, both times acknowledging he had his flaws. He still has his flaws today. Some of his policies do suck, in my mind...doesn't mean he hasn't been a great President overall.

These kind of posts just limit discussion, they don't help the eventual nominee get better as a candidate, and make DU a lot less fun.

I don't see the utility in making DU a self confirming feedback loop for Bernie supporters. That should be a bad thing shouldn't it?

[mhatrw]

15. It was a bullshit, strained, speculative, 100% personality-based critique.

Sure, Sanders is a less than perfect personality who has many time throughout his long career aligned himself with other people who had less than perfect personalities. So what? Since when is "nobody is perfect" a legitimate political critique?

Your critique of Sanders' supporters is also a bullshit, strained, speculative, 100% personality-based critique. Sure, some Sanders supporters, just like some Clinton and Obama supporters, suffer from hero worship that blinds them to their favorite national political figure's personal and political flaws. So what? Since when is "many people who agree with him on 98% of the issues are willing to overlook his imperfections" a legitimate political critique?

Is just shows how desperate both you and Harrop have become. The straws are starting to exceed your grasp.

[GitRDun]

19. You really need to chill out

First I agree with the so what on Bernie's personality. So what if he's a bit holier than thou. My comment was I think it might not help him get to his outreach goal with minorities if he associates himself with people like West.

My critique of some Sanders supporters (like you) is based on their posts, not their personalities. I cannot judge your personality, just what you write. I think it's great you like Bernie. I do to. You are also free to overlook any flaws he may have personally or any campaign mistakes he and his folks make. The thing is..the rest of us don't have to do that...and that doesn't make us wrong or bad...just different than you.

I can accept you disagreeing with my position on West..it would be more credible if you had some facts to back it up. You can harangue about whatever you like, it doesn't make it credible.

Lastly, the Sanders supporter id really shines when you suggest I'm desperate..how would you know what I feel? The arrogance you show in these kind of statements is just laughable.

I don't have a preferred nominee like you do. I am waiting for the process to play out more. What would I have to be desperate about? These kinds of projections on other people are a direct result of what I'll call a bunker mentality. You knee jerk label any poster who may say something you don't like as an "enemy of Sanders" and proceed into attack mode.

Chill out a bit. It's a long campaign season.

[mhatrw]

20. OK. I am not mad at you in the least.

What I am mad at is the abysmally low percentage of "news" and "analysis" stories about Sanders that so much as mention anything about his policies or his stances on the many important issues that face our nation.

I did not mean to take that out on you. Point taken.

You don't like that Sanders associated himself with West. I get that. I just want to see something in corporate media about Sanders other than blatant lies about his policy proposals (WSJ), shallow personality critiques of Sanders and his supporters, proclamations of Sanders supposed weaknesses with voters who are currently not familiar with his platform. and vilification by association.

[GitRDun]

21. The media blows...

All that matters from a Bernie campaign perspective is that he connects with people. The media cannot stop that from happening. And we're all just waiting to see what happens.

He CAN do it.

If he can build a coalition he'll win.

[Comrade Grumpy]

11. What is a Froma Harrop?

[Ron Green]

16. This lame-ass screed was in my local (corporate-owned) rag this morning, juxtaposed with

an "inauthentic Hillary" cartoon on the editorial page. So there you have hit pieces against both of those Democrats. Turn the page and there's an enormous love poem to Ben Carson, with a big photo above the fold.

The corporate owner, Lee Publications, has small town papers around the country. I'm guessing there are dozens, if not hundreds, of similar outfits: the infantry of the status quo.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. He moved to Vermont, the fiend!

He probably listens to Phish.