President of the United States is an administrative position primarily, correct ?

[steve2470]

Last edited Thu Sep 17, 2015, 07:21 AM - Edit history (2)

Martin O'Malley was Governor of Maryland, which is an administrative position. I think that's an accurate statement. ETA: Lincoln Chaffee was Governor of Rhode Island, so I stand corrected again.

AFAIK, he is the only person with real administrative experience in this race. Before you chide me, I am an authentic Bernie supporter. If you search DU, you will see that fact.

What are your thoughts on this ? Hopefully we can have a snark-free and relatively civil discussion. Have a good day, and thank you in advance.

eta: I stand corrected. They all have experience. I simply see Governor of MD as the best experience, which probably doesn't align with my support for Bernie.

eta2: If O'Malley was an asshole (like Bush) or was a bad Governor (like Bush), then his admin. experience would not matter. AFAIK, he is a good man and was a good Governor. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

[DanTex]

1. Secretary of State is also an administrative position. As is mayor of Burlington.

[steve2470]

2. I guess I'd say Governor of Maryland is the best experience for POTUS

I'm sure most of this forum disagrees with me, which is fine.

[SonderWoman]

3. Experience-wise I would say...

A First Lady, Senator from NY, and Secretary of State would have the vast experience.

[HooptieWagon]

4. Bush was Gov of Texas. Much larger than Maryland.

That didn't turn out well. I don't think a single conclusion can be drawn between having administrative/executive experience and what kind of President one is. Eisenhower commanded an army in Europe, JFK commanded a little boat....both did OK as POTUS.

[steve2470]

5. point taken

I guess I'd say, O'Malley is a vastly better human being and Governor than Bush was. Bush could have been VP and I would have still voted against that idiot.

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. Governor is an EXECUTIVE position... SoS isn't. I agree with you. n/t

[Snotcicles]

6. Mayor is also an administrative position, maybe to a somewhat lesser degree but still

functions as administrator.

[SouthernProgressive]

7. The Presidency is an executive position as is the Governorship.

You are correct about O'Malley possessing experience the others are lacking. I really wish the O'Malley campaign would take off. I think he is the best person for the job.

[99Forever]

8. Mayor is an administrative position also.

Senators have to administrate their staff, as do heads of WH staff appointed offices, such as SoS.

Rather weak selling point, if you ask me. Governorships aren't Presidencies, and business CEO's aren't necessarily good or effective government leaders.

It's all about the issues and how they handle them.

[Demit]

9. Foreign policy is a vital component of what POTUS does.

A governor doesn't deal with other countries very much. How does O'Malley stack up against the other candidates in foreign policy experience?

[steve2470]

10. afaik, he has very little or none. I don't know much about him nt

[Demit]

12. Yet you started a thread touting him for president.

[steve2470]

13. shrugs

President Obama had no foreign policy experience before he became POTUS and I think he's done a fine job.

Nice job of snark. Congrats.

[Demit]

15. Not snark at all. Merely an observation.

You think he is the best candidate for the job but you don't know much about him. That's a little mystifying.

[Demit]

18. Btw, Obama served four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

That most definitely counts as foreign affairs experience.

[underthematrix]

11. No that's not correct. The Presidency is an EXECUTIVE function

framing policy agenda, articulating strategies, establishing implementation plan, leading the way

An administrative function is overseeing the day to day activities of a functions in the service of the executive function

I would say being mayor or gov is an executive function. Being Secretary of State is primarily an administrative function because the President actually sets the agenda. Although John Kerry has shown how it can also be an executive function. He is the face of the President's foreign policy implementation. This was less apparent during Hillary Clinton's tenure. I'm not sure why that was the case.

By the way, Bernie ran for gov of Vermont and lost. vermont has loved Bernie as their Representative and Senator. But for some reason, they did not want him as the chief executive of their state.

[steve2470]

14. POTUS is head of the executive branch, so he constantly does admin. duties. That's an administrator

So, we disagree.

[underthematrix]

38. The President has a cabinet made up of Executives who

head departments that perform administrative functions to implement policies

[tblue37]

23. Your remark about Bernie's failed campaigns in the 1970s is misleading. At the time he

had no idea how to run a political campaign. He was an idealust running on the ticket of the Liberty Union Party, which also was politically clueless. It's leader (and Bernie at the time as well) focused their attention on sweeping dreams of upending the runaway capitalistic hold on both the nation's and the world's political, economic, and social structures. They didn't focus on Vermont or on the state's voters' needs at all.

Once he got his head out of the clouds, left the hopelessly ineffectual Liberty Union Party, and campagned for Burlington mayor on issues that directly affected the voters' lives and responded to their concerns, their needs, and their wishes (as opposed to his own impractical idealistic philosophic dreams), Bernie won election, and he has been winning ever since, without compromising his principles or selling out to deep pocket individuals, banks, or corporations.

Mother Jones ran a good article about Bernie and the reasons for his early campaign failures:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/young-bernie-sanders-liberty-union-vermont

"How Bernie Sanders Learned to Be a Real Politician"

[underthematrix]

39. I think Bernie is still an idealist and there's no shame in that

but it seems strange that you would make excuses for his failure by attributing it to his lack of skill.

[tblue37]

40. His failed campigns occurred at the beginning of his political career, when he was still

doing what unlectable idealists do: refusing to consider the needs and wishes of the people he was running to "represent." Once he learned that voters and constituents are not beside the point but actually *the point* of elections, he became a successful campaigner.

[underthematrix]

41. You said it best and there's no way I can improve on that

[PoliticAverse]

16. I remember the last person to bring up the administrative experience issue,

claiming that they had a lot more than the presidential candidate of the other party. I recall it
was in 2008.

[steve2470]

17. correct

It's definitely not the only factor in an election.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. This debate has been going on for decades.

It is why we get so many Governors elected to President.


My personal opinion, Governors are like semi-pro quarterbacks trying to make it to the Pros. Yes, they are similar positions but being President is such a higher level that just having Executive experience isn't enough.

You need to have played in the big leagues to understand the playbook and the players. It is helpful if you have played QB at some point, even if it was high school, but you also need to have been exposed to the opposition you run up against on that field. Lets face it, a lot of this is just raw talent. A great athlete/politician who knows what he/she are up against will do a better job than someone who has more experience with that position on a lower level but who has less natural ability.


It is easy to argue that Pres. Obama had no real Executive experience before becoming President and he has done a great job. The last couple Presidents we had who were Governors first were W and Reagan. Look where that got us.


I am more comfortable with someone who has already been involved in the Federal Government on some level. It is really the only way I can respect their opinion on foreign policy.

[steve2470]

20. good points

I was perfectly comfortable with voting for President Obama, despite him having no admin. experience. That's why, up till now, I've been a Bernie supporter.

[Motown_Johnny]

21. Bernie was a Mayor

that counts.


Lost of kitchen table issues to deal with as Mayor.

[steve2470]

22. yes it does count, I forgot about that tenure nt

[aikoaiko]

24. fwiw:I wouldn't want to live in Baltimore or Maryland,

But I do want to live in Burlington or anywhere in Vermont.

[elleng]

26. Sorry, aik, I live in Maryland,

at a river's edge, it's lovely, no mountains in view but we DO have mountains here. I also love Vermont.

[aikoaiko]

35. Maybe its just not my vibe. I do know there are some lovely spots on the bay.

[Recursion]

32. Baltimore and Burlington have identical poverty rates, and Burlington has more inequality

Both have about 11.3% of households in poverty. Baltimore has a gini of .449 while Burlington has a gini of .475.

[aikoaiko]

37. I guess we can't attribute my preference to the poverty levels.

Mostly, I've only visited their downtown areas and universities for conferences.

We often link poverty with crime, but the crime indexes for the two cities are drastically different.

City-data claims an average crime index of 310 for US cities.
Baltimore rates a 709 and Burlington rates a 261.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Baltimore-Maryland.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Burlington-Vermont.html

Maybe its just my preference for crunchy granola hippies that like to shoot guns, recycle, and chill.

[elleng]

25. ABSOLUTELY, steve,

and this is his #1 selling point when he's asked the question "Why you instead of the others." I'm glad you noticed. I haven't yet read others responses, and will omit any 'snark' I see.

Thanks

[HassleCat]

27. Clinton wins that one

Running the State Department is administrative experience at the federal level, quite different from being a governor. Although I support Sanders, Clinton is the best qualified on paper. Now if you look at some of her specific actions and statements during her tenure, you might reasonably conclude, "I would prefer to have someone else be president." This business about relevant experience is meaningless. Clinton tried to say Obama had inadequate experience, and he turned out to be a great president. Reagan served as governor of California, the state with a bigger economy than all but five or six nations, and he turned out to be our worst president.

[elleng]

28. and he said and did this:

'As the former governor of Maryland, I know firsthand that we can do more. When tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors fleeing violence arrived at our southern border last year, Maryland took in more children per capita than any other state. We did it by working together: we cared for more than 5,000 children by convening Maryland’s faith, community, business and government leaders. We made a huge difference in these children’s lives and showed that Americans — if given the opportunity — are eager to step up and live their values.'

O'Malley op-ed: We must not pretend the Atlantic Ocean frees us of our moral duty to refugees

USAToday editorial,
by Martin O'Malley, September 9, 2015


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

[steve2470]

29. +1000000 nt

[jfern]

30. Sanders was mayor for 8 years

So while not as much executive experience as O' Malley, Sanders certainly has a fair amount.

[Armstead]

31. Chaffee was a Governor......Oh yeah and that mayor thing..

Chaffee dies have executive adminstrativecexperience.

But more to the point, Bernie did show an ability to eork withbthe other side as Mayro to get things done. The scale was obviously smaller, but if you know anything about New England small town/city politics, it's as ornery and diffucult to manage as DC.

[Andy823]

33. Yes he has the administrative experience

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

He also has actually plans, on paper, on how he will go about fixing things, like immigration, Wall Street, crime, SS, etc. He also has a record of getting things accomplished and not giving up, just like now with the debate thing, he is the only one that is still pushing this issue, and I think he is right to do so. The whole DNC "rules" for this election are, as O'Malley put it, undemocratic. DWS is wrong to enforce them the the way she is.

O'Malley and Sanders think a lot alike, however I feel that O'Malley would be best person in the WH. That said, I will vote for the nominee whoever they may be in the general election. We can't afford to have one of the morons running in the GOP clown car in the WH, and that's simple a fact.

[FSogol]

34. I agree. Sanders and O'Malley do think alike, but O'M has a huge track record of accomplishments

He's a guy that does the hard work and gets things done. IMO, he's the best candidate running. Need examples of his accomplishments? Check out the pinned posts in the DU's O'Malley group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281