Ann's horse is supposed to be off limits and DNC will now back off

[mary195149]

Trying to put this horse thing in perspective. Of course, if Ann Romney has found something that helps her control her MS, we need to be sympathetic. But if it was for medical reasons, why was that horse on their tax return as a business deduction instead of a medical expense? I don't remember all the bits I read but recall something about the Romney's were sued because when they sold their horse it was drugged to hide some physical problems the horse had. It amazes me they would stoop this low with all the money they have to be so dishonest in selling a horse with ailments and not disclosing it. Anyways, just another example how they are manipulating the system, using this as a business tax deduction on one hand and when "us people" bring up their disconnect with the middle class they call foul and throw up this "sport" is great therapy for Ann and we should be ashamed of hurting her.The Romneys' know how to play both sides.

[targetpractice]

1. They want to take dressage off the table because of the fraud case...

So, saying Ann needs the horse for medical reasons is a "Hail Mary Pass"

[chemenger]

39. I wonder if her doctor gave her a prescription for dressage.

and would health insurance cover the cost of the horse, its upkeep and all the other incidentals ... minus of course a small deductible.

And if it is a legitimate treatment for MS why isn't it prescribed for "you people"? Probably only intended for the wealthy elite.

[Enrique]

2. it looks like a silly sport

and Mitt looks like a rich guy that plays silly sports.

By the way, I've heard him talk about sports, but he says "sport". If you look in the dictionary, it says that is how you say it everywhere except the U.S.

[magical thyme]

37. whereas a sport where a group of men dress in tights

and shoulder pads and chase around an orange leather ball looks totally sensible. Or dress in short-shorts and dribble another orange ball. Or dress like ballons and hit a little white ball.

I suggest laying off of equestrian sports. What looks silly to outsiders has meaning to participants. Dressage competition is not unlike one phase of figure skating, back when along with short and long program, they had a phase where you performed a predetermined, specific sequence of basic figures so the judges could score the correctness each participants fundamentals.

[SoutherDem]

3. If Dressage is a legitimate treatment for MS

Why isn't it more popular? Why isn't that discussed at the MS walks? Why aren't there organizations who have camps where people can participate? I can understand how riding a horse could help with MS, but I don't see how getting that horse to dance, something which doesn't look natural nor very humane, could be a much of an advantage, if one at all.

[HubertHeaver]

6. Horse riding would be a very dangerous treatment for

Multiple Sclerosis. There are two kinds of horse riders--Those that have fallen off their horse and those that will fall off their horse. Both conditions apply to most riders.




Edit to change word.

[GoCubsGo]

14. And, one would think you'd have to actually ride the horse to get the benefits.

The "dancing horse" commercial likely refers to Rafalca, the horse that the Romneys are sending to the Olympics, and bragging about. And, I believe the horse for which they requested $77 K in tax deductions. Ann isn't riding that horse. They are paying someone else to ride it. Therefore, it is impossible for her to be getting any therapeutic benefits from it. I don't think she is getting them vicariously.

[annabanana]

19. It should be covered by all major insurance plans.

Wait, . . . . it isn't?

[sofa king]

36. I think being filthy rich is treatment for MS.

The horse is merely an indicator of the ocean of money which provides actual, reliable health care, something which the vast majority of Americans do not have and never will as long as there's a Republican shill in Congress to stump for the insurance companies.

In a way, it's symbolic of the Romney message: you, too can have all the things I have if you're willing to destroy thousands of lives and divert a chunk of the American economy into one's own pockets. And if you aren't willing to do that, you're a bad person who deserves to die, anyway.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Her pony is a service animal? Do you think I'm fucking stupid, Mitt? n/t

[gregoire]

26. I saw a picture of her in a restaurant with her service horse.

Seriously, Republicans think we believe she takes the damn thing into public places?

[HubertHeaver]

5. No reason to back off. The dancing horse

is a very good metaphor for Mitt's changing stories. It says nothing at all about Ann.

[pansypoo53219]

7. don't give me this horse therapy BS.

this is WEALTHY AS HELL beyond what many people can get therapy. with a fucking big tax break. WHY ARE THESE TAX BREAKS NOT MEANS TESTED.

[avebury]

8. The Democrats need to grow and keep a spine.

The horses are listed as a business expense with a $77,000 tax break not a medical expense. I would raise the fraud case where they drugged up a horse to hide a serious leg injury so that they could sell it. With all the money they have they didn't think twice about risking the life of the horse when they drugged it and sold it to someone who wanted a dressage horse. It all goes to character, something the Romneys lack.

[trueblue2007]

9. HORSE OR THE EVENT HORSE IS IN isn't off table as far as I'm concerned

[targetpractice]

15. Everyone's gonna learn A LOT more about Dressage during Olympics' coverage...

Seem like the Romney's wanted to take dressage off the table badly, and therefore tried to link the sport with Ann's MS.

The sport will be exposed for what it is during the Olympics... That will re-ignite discussion in the media about the controversies of the sport and about the fraud case where the Romney's tried to sell a drugged up abused horse.

[AtomicKitten]

10. Labor Super Pac NOT dropping dressage attack after DNC backs off.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/romney-horse-rafalca-off-limits.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

[alphafemale]

18. Neither will Jon Stewart or anyone else that matters.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Christopher Reeve must be rolling over in his grave.

Fuck you, Ann, and the horse you rode in on...only that's mean to the poor horse.

[blondie58]

12. hippotherapy can be beneficial for many,jk

Including people with ms. I have ms, and if I had the money, I would try it. It helps your balance and your 'core'.

But I don't think the dressage helps.

[Stardust]

13. Medical deductions are limited to those *exceeding* 7.5% of their adjusted gross income, that's why.

[HopeHoops]

16. It isn't the horse's fault that it got stuck with the "strap it to the roof" couple.

[flamingdem]

17. Note the theme of NON-DISCLOSURE - if they'd do it to sell a horse..

they'd do it to sell Mitt to the US public

[Rosa Luxemburg]

20. Business tax deduction period

[bklyncowgirl]

21. I doubt very much that Ann actually rides Rafalca--her Olympic horse--for therapy

This is a dressage horse trained to Grand Prix level. These are massive, immensely powerful animals. She (the horse) has a professional, I believe his name is Jan Eberling, who rides and trains her. A beastie like this is not a mount for amateurs. At this level, where the horse is trained to response to the slightest shift in a rider's weight or hands, a less skilled rider could undo years of training in a few minutes or more likely the horse would quickly get frustrated with the conflicting signals and refuse to perform or launch the rider into the stratosphere.

Maybe Ann Romney is someone who's skilled enough to ride a horse like this. If so, I respect her, it takes years and years of practice to get to that level. I'd really like to see her ride some day and I mean that sincerely. If she's a good horse person, I could respect that despite her politics. Ronald Reagan, a man I disagreed with politically, had a real relationship with his horses and loved riding.

I have no problem with the idea that she rides for reasons--It's a great sport to help with balance. I just don't believe that Rafalca, in her spare time is Ann's therapy pony. It's a fine distinction, I guess but it's one that can be made.

This particular horse is a rich woman's hobby--not her therapy horse. Her role is more like that of the owner of a race horse. I'm not quite sure how they're making money so that they can take their horse expenses off their taxes, but if she's a partner in her trainer's business, that would probably make sense.

[magical thyme]

23. Ann does ride GP dressage, but you are right in that it's not on Rafalca

She owns multiple horses, generally oldenburgs. They are part owners of Rafalca, the Olympic horse, and I doubt anybody other than their trainer and business partner, Jan Ebeling, rides Rafalca. Down the road, after the Olympics, maybe. But not ahead of it.

One of her horses, Super Hit, was the one that was fraudulently sold while maxed out on drugs. That is probably the reason they are trying to keep her dressage riding off limits. It's another case of animal abuse -- they kept that horse competing while he was unsound and likely on drugs (illegal in the competition world) and when he couldn't be successful any more, instead of retiring him like a decent human being who can afford it would, they doped him on surgery level sedatives and analgesics and pawned him off on another client of their business partner for $125K. It resulted in a law suit settled out of court (Ann was dropped from the suit), with the plaintiff's veterinarian (38 year veteran including 36 years as the USET vet) stating he had never seen a tox screen like it. It is extremely unlikely that Ebeling's vet overdrugged the horse. He used 2 standard sedatives for the x-rays and listed them on his report. Normally in these deals, the buyer gets a blood sample of the horse in case any questions come up after the fact. Super Hit's sample showed 3 sedatives and one sedative/analgesic in his system. Only 2 of the sedatives were legit. All 4 decrease the heart rate and depress respiration. The combination could literally have killed that horse on the spot and the vet would have known that, as well as knowing that his reputation was on the line if an issue came up and a tox screen was done.

When they buyer noted that the horse "felt funny" sometime after buying him, Ebeling had the fucking balls to tell her it was her riding. More likely, the drugs were wearing off and the horse was in pain and compensating.

At least it is the team vet who is aware that Ebeling, now on the team with Rafalca, is a likely drug cheat. They should be testing Rafalca routinely to make sure he isn't cheating with her as well.

[bklyncowgirl]

24. Lovely. Just Lovely. That trainer sounds like a prince. Thanks for the information.

Seriously, you'd think the Romney's could have afforded to retire Super Hit and let him be a lawn ornament for the rest of his life instead of pawning him off on someone else for big bucks. I know it happens all the time in the horse world but frankly, it still stinks. Don't know if it's Ebeling or the Romneys who are to blame (likely it's both). How did the suit work out, by the way?

[magical thyme]

25. settled out of court

Ann Romney was dropped from the suit. It's unlikely she would have know exactly how drugged up her horse was. She probably is not involved at all in day-to-day care. But she certainly should have suspected there was a serious problem and should have known he was on some illegal drugs or other. The timing of her decision to sell certainly makes her suspect. It fries me that with all their hundreds of millions....vicious, cheapskate bastards.

Ebeling settled out of court with the buyer.

It was a pretty ballsy scheme to try. Aside from random drug testing at large competitions (maybe the 1% are exempted?) they knew a blood sample would be taken and frozen as part of a pre-purchase exam. Maybe Ebeling didn't know the half-life of the drugs he likely administered, so didn't realize they'd still be in Super Hits' blood in detectable levels. Who knows?

[bklyncowgirl]

27. Some people have the ability to make bad things go away.

I would imagine with the Romneys involved the pressure on the buyer to settle would be rather intense.

[magical thyme]

28. yup.

and that's also why I think Ann's dressage riding is "off limits."

If they rode western it would be ok, since Reagan rode. Of course, the fact that western reining is based on dressage training is lost on the vast majority....

And aside from the fact that it makes them appear, yet again, "out of touch" with average Americans, there is the association with fraud and animal abuse.

[bklyncowgirl]

31. Actually I think Reagan preferred to ride English

Here's s some pictures. http://www.wiwfarm.com/reagan.html

I could never agree with the man politically but I have to give him credit for having the balls to wear those old fashioned peg top breeches and riding English style on what looks like an Arabian, no less. The old boy does seem to be having a good time too.

If he was a Democrat they'd have skewered him alive.

[magical thyme]

32. wow! I had no idea....thank you

That makes me feel a little better and it reminds of something that I'd totally forgotten.

Back when he was president, the Spanish Riding School gave him a fully trained lipizzaner as a gift. I was jealous then. I'm jealous now, but feel better knowing he probably didn't throw a big old western saddle on, cinch him up and take him out on the range, lol.

[bklyncowgirl]

33. I don't know if he ever rode it.

I remember reading that his aides wanted him to get on the horse in front of the cameras. Old Ronnie may not have been the sharpest knife in the draw as far as our presidents go, but as a rider he knew that horse was out of his equine league and had no intention of embarrasing himself in public. I don't knew whether he ever tried the horse in private. He was a trail rider.

I've always wanted someone who rides back in the White House. I grew up when the Kennedy kids ponies were turned out on the White House Lawn, but please God, not Ann Romney. Reagan was bad enough and these days he's looking pretty sane compared to the current crop of Republicans.

Brian Schwietzer 2016 maybe? A rancher, a real working cowboy and he's got the cutest dog in politics.

[magical thyme]

34. I had to look him up

wiki didn't have a pic of Jag, but he seems like he'd be a great choice.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. Was there not an insurnce issue?

From what I vaguely recall from the vet's expert statement, the horse was not insured for the hurt leg. In other words, the insurance policy excluded that part of the horse as it was a pre-existing condition. I assume the Romneys would know about the limits of the insurance coverage they were paying for. The question I have is whether the buyer of Super Hit was aware of the policy limits. Also on the issue of Ann's knowledge of her horse's physical condition is the fact its dressage scores were getting worse and worse and I believe it was taken out of competition more than one year before the horse was sold. Here again, maybe a buyer should reasonably have inquired about these facts but did Ann Romney volunteer this information which she surely knew? It's highly unlikely an owner's prize horse's declining performance scores would not be a well know fact.

[magical thyme]

30. that is my understanding as well, except it was not a "hurt" leg in the beginning

There was a congenital issue with the coffin bone -- the major bone of the hoof -- when Ann bought him. The pre-purchase vet didn't expect it to be a problem, so they went ahead and bought him.

It was a gamble, but with a lot of horses it is. Modern pre-purchase techniques for very expensive horses include full x-rays and often turn up something that is not quite right. And buying a young prospect is never a guarantee that they will live up to their promise.

But the insurance did not cover problems arising from that leg because it was pre-existing.

The buyer should have known about the pre-existing issue, but not if she wasn't told. Follow-on problems such as inflammation would not have shown up on x-ray and she had no way of knowing the horse was on a sedative and a sedative/analgesic to mask the symptoms, except for the blood tests. She made the mistake of using Ebeling's vet. Normally you would get your own, 3rd party, vet but if she was also Ebeling's client she may have trusted him to be straight with her.

Who knows what excuses they may have made for the horse's declining scores? There is a lot we don't know, but what I do believe is that Ann had to be aware of the horse's unsoundness and should have retired him to trail horse or pasture buddy, not passed him off on somebody else. It's not like it was a choice between him and food on their table. Or meant any sacrifice at all.

He gave her his best for years, and kept trying through the pain. To mask the pain and force him to perform while causing further damage is morally wrong and against competition rules if they competed him on drugs.

Had he been insured, the Romney's would have gotten their initial purchase money back and if the insurance company couldn't sell him to somebody for something, they would have sent him to the killpen and slaughterhouse.

[_ed_]

22. Fuck that

That stupid horse gets more in a tax break than most Americans earn in a year. I don't give a shit whether or not it helps with MS.

[DFW]

35. The DNC should concentrate on the horse's ass she is married to

Not the other one.

[GoCubsGo]

38. Yep. Let the PACs discuss the horse.

Romney is letting the GOP PACs do his dirty work for him. No reason the DNC shouldn't do the same.