Clinton aide says he doesn’t know what 'wiped' server means

[FlatBaroque]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/252686-clinton-aide-says-he-doesnt-know-what-wiped-means

Hillary Clinton’s press secretary says he doesn’t know what the word “wiped” means in reference to his boss’s private email server.

“I don’t know what ‘wiped’ means,” Brian Fallon told CNN’s Brianna Keilar on Thursday in response to whether the server Clinton handed over to the FBI was “wiped.”

“There’s been no — I don’t know what ‘wiped’ means, literally the emails were deleted off of the server, that’s true,” he repeated later in the interview.

.....

“Like with a cloth or something?” Clinton replied at an August press conference when asked whether she “wiped her server.”

?itok=EDJkyl-n

[Oneironaut]

1. You take a washcloth and start scrubbing the files away.

Duh...

Use soap and water for the best results.

[VanillaRhapsody]

2. Was it a seven pass wipe?

You realize its not a non nuanced concept...

[Motown_Johnny]

8. You are claiming that she was lost in the nuance of the term?

She was "joking" that the reporter was asking about her housekeeper's dusting habits. There was no nuance to it.


This kind of statement just makes Hillary's supporters look bad. She is obviously caught evading a question and not being honest about not understanding that very common term.

[DanTex]

11. Exactly. What's funny is that the Hillary bashers don't know what it means either.

The difference is that the Clinton aide on CNN at least knew that he didn't know, whereas the Hillary bashers aren't aware of their own ignorance.

[AgingAmerican]

53. Well, that was profound!

nt

[Xipe Totec]

3. To wipe means to reformat the drive. To nuke means to write random bits over the wiped drive

When nuked, there is no forensic method that can recover the data.

When you erase a file, all that happens is that the links in the directory get removed but the data remains in the disk drive and can still be recovered.

[Laser102]

10. Thank you for the information. I never understood exactly what was involved in "wiping" a server.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And even that has to be qualified due to what they can do at Quantico among other places

let's just say government destruction is a tad more involved. See Guardian article on the destruction of their own computers.

Degaussing is also involved.

[SonderWoman]

4. According to some of these emails...

It seems not many of them were too tech-savvy. Probably just Huma.

[ram2008]

5. Like with a cloth or something?

It's a difficult concept.

[woodsprite]

6. Fine grit sandpaper vigorously applied directly to the magnetic media works best ;) n/t

[AgingAmerican]

16. Or a strong electromagnet

nt

[Motown_Johnny]

7. That simply is not believable.

Some GOP interns are out there right now going over old tape to find her using that very common term. Odds are they will find it too.

And her supporters honestly do not understand why she is seen as untrustworthy by nearly 2 out of 3 Americans.

How the hell can we risk the White House on someone who consistently self inflicts these wounds? I just don't get it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. Even I,

an almost computer illiterate, know what wiping a server/hard drive means. Obviously, that's their agreed upon excuse - they know nothing about computers/servers. Nothing!

[MADem]

51. Well, I am not stupid when it comes to computers (not smart either) but I didn't know that

WIPED had such a specific meaning. I thought it meant simply deleting--but that's not the case, as a DUer has kindly explained in this thread.

[Recursion]

56. I'm a sysadmin, and I don't know what it means

I know people use it a lot (along with the phrase "the server&quot , but I'm never quite clear what people mean by either one.

[morningfog]

12. It depends on what the deifintion of "wiped" is.

THey all know the difference between simply "deleting" emails and "wiping" or "scrubbing" or "reformatting" the server. They are all playing dumb and it makes them look like they are hiding something.

They you have the IT tech pleading the 5th.

[6chars]

21. are you making an allusion to something?

[L0oniX]

35. +1

[dsc]

80. Honestly I am no computer expert

but I also don't know, or rather didn't know, what the definition of wiped is. I know that there is a difference between deleting the emails, reformating the server, and reformating and rewriting over the data, but I didn't know which one wiped meant.

[morningfog]

81. I went back and listened to the interview to see what exactly his position was.

Regardless of the semantics, he made clear that the metadata, that is, the emails in their native format were erased from the hard drive. They are only recoverable through some forensic analysis. He said if the FBI is able to recover the erased emails, there won't be any work related emails there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Jesus, if you don't know, get somebody who does

by the way the seven pass wipe does not comply with destruction of government files policies. Those who know will know exactly what I mean.

[FreakinDJ]

14. Folks are going to beleive her now !!

[morningfog]

15. He, and Hillary, should ask their IT guy. You know, the one invoking his 5th Amendment rights.

The one concerned that he may be exposed to criminal liability.

[askew]

24. Turns out that IT guy is also invoking the 5th amendment with State Dept IG and FBI.

Something is starting to stink about this server.

[morningfog]

25. Oh, with FBI too? If true, he'll be forced to establish that he has

Criminal exposure to invoke.

Drip, drip, drip.

[askew]

32. He's refused to cooperate since June.

The State Dept also sent a letter to FBI asking them to search server and thumb drives for deleted emails. This is pretty ugly.

[FlatBaroque]

40. Is that Joe Biden I hear getting ready to announce? n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

18. wow, it's breathtaking to watch this precision crafted clockwork campaign in action.

How could anyone doubt the sleek inevitability of this professional, well-honed election winning machine?

[arcane1]

28. .

[L0oniX]

36. -

[FlatBaroque]

41. It's the best that money can buy n/t

[Prism]

19. I see two options of interpretation here

1. We assume honesty. In which case, these people are too stupid to be in government.

2. We assume this is a huge, cynical lie and they believe the American people are this stupid. In which case, these people are too stupid to be in government.

Either way.

[JoePhilly]

23. Maybe you know ...

Which of the following is the same as "wiping a server".

1) Deleting all of the files on the hard drive.
2) Reformatting the hard drive.
3) Melting or other wise destroying the hard drive
4) All of the above must be done for a server to be accurately be described as "wiped".
5) None of these apply, there is some other action or set of actions, which renders a serer "wiped".

Which is it?

Thanks.

[Prism]

29. So they're just crazy tech sophisticated then

Because, they really need a detailed question about the server before they can give a general answer.

Huh. I'll correct myself. We need these people working for Comcast.

[Sancho]

60. There are plenty of other options...

The IT guy worked for private companies. Feds "secret courts" have been trying to get stuff like encryption keys and methods from the private companies for years with mixed success. He may be protecting trade secrets and other clients.

Also, he has a smart lawyer who sees no end to the GOP committee going after everyone down to the janitor. This guy used to work in the WH, so no telling what he saw, but he was not a government employee. He may have more criminal liability or even be tied up for years in a wild goose chase.

I doubt he was stupid, and he didn't work "in government".

[TwilightGardener]

20. You can't expect an old fart like him to understand anything about all this newfangled

computer stuff! Don't be fooled by his youthful looks!

[JoePhilly]

22. Does "wiped" mean, deleted, reformated, melted, or something else?

Which is it?

What specifically must be done to a hard drive for it to accurately be described as being "wiped"?

I'm guessing you know.

Thanks in advance.

[morningfog]

27. Wiped is not deleted. Wiped is scrubbed or cleansed.

It is a common term that most are familiar with. There are programs to wipe hard drives clean.

It looks like they have something to hide when they play the fool so unconvincingly. They are giving legalese weasel answers. That is not how to get past this.

[Adrahil]

38. Here's the thing....

When a term like that is used, it's best to be VERY precise in the answer. If the person answering has one definition in mind and the questioner has another, then you can get all kinds of accusations about lying and so forth. Better to be specific in this case, I think. And don't think for a moment that the GOP wouldn't do that. They would. And maybe some people here would too.

[morningfog]

39. Then answer precisely. "All emails were deleted,

but the server was not formatted or wiped clean."

[JoePhilly]

62. Bingo.

And you can be sure that twisting her words is exactly what the GOP (and some of our good friends here at DU) would love to do.

[JoePhilly]

61. Really?? ... "most" are familiar with the specific meaning of "wiped" ...

... in regards to computer servers.

Um, no. Not really.

And you, in trying to describe that term, actually added two new terms to the game ... scrubbed and cleansed.

Are those all the exact same thing? Or are they different mechanisms.

Do you think the reporter who had asked Hillary whether the server was "wiped" or not, had a specific definition in mind, or was he simply using a convenient term that sounded good? Should he have used "cleansed" or scrubbed" instead?

I mean if these are such common terms.

[morningfog]

65. If you and the Clinton camp want to play dumb, go ahead.

No one buys it.

This line will get her nowhere. It just makes her look like she's hiding and scared. But, it's her campaign.

[JoePhilly]

66. Look, I understand you will twist anything

she says, anything her staff says, no mater what they actuall say.

This line will get you nowhere.

The over the top whining by "your camp" has become little more than background noise.

[morningfog]

67. No twisting needed. They self inflict their wounds.

I have no camp, bubs. And I don't do whining. I do accept your apology for your rudeness in advance, though.

[JoePhilly]

68. Don't hold your breath.

I do get a kick out of folks who have been wrong over and over on DU explaining how politics works to the rest of us.

[morningfog]

69. Yeah, you are a regular political whiz kid!

I bow to your political genius and unblimished analysis.

Oh wait, you don't post that. You post petty snark and personal insults. Such a contribution to the discourse!

[AgingAmerican]

54. Lemon Pledge

nt

[magical thyme]

26. combine that with her IT manager pleading the 5th

Does her IT manager know what it means to "wipe" a server?
Who gave him the orders to wipe it?
Did he wipe the server before or after the request came to hand the server over?

Potential obstruction of justice? It's not the crime; it's the cover up.

[TwilightGardener]

30. I read that he refused to talk to the FBI already--they sought to question him back in July.

[magical thyme]

31. his lawyer announced today that he intends to plead the 5th

my understanding is that they can give him blanket immunity and compel him to testify.

[procon]

33. But first they would have to have to charge Clinton with a crime,

and to do that, they need undeniable evidence of her guilt.

[magical thyme]

37. do they? why?nt

[morningfog]

43. No. The poster is wrong.

They could grant immunity and elicit testimony prior to charging anyone with a crime. What would most like happen is, if the DOJ were interested, hold a proffer interview with them first. It would be confidential and protected from use.

If the DOJ liked what he has to say, then plea deals and/immunity would be discussed. There is no requirement for criminal charges to precede immunity deals. On fact, they are most likely to occur in the grand jury stage, prior to indictment.

[morningfog]

44. None of that is true.

Immunity can precede another being charged with a crime.

And to be charged, the government need only establish probable cause that a crime has occurred, not undeniable evidence of guilt.

[procon]

47. Without the prospect of prosecution and the possibility of incarceration and fines

then what else is the offer of immunity for?

Why would the aide put himself in jeopardy by giving up his 5th amendment rights unless he had immunity from prosecution, and that doesn't exist unless they can charge Clinton with some wrongdoing.

[morningfog]

58. Immunity is given when a witness exposed to criminal liability

Otherwise would not testify and the government wants or needs the information. Once one is granted immunity, there is no risk of prosecution for that person.

Such a deal can be made at any point along the way, including during the investigative stage, at the grand jury or at trial.

What precedes the immunity grant is a "proffer." The witness is made "Queen for a day." By agreement, anything the witness says during the proffer can't be used against them, regards of whether they are ultimately granted immunity or not.

It's a way for the government to find out if the info the witness has is worthy of an immunity grant or a plea deal.

All that is to say, immunity can be used to access information well before anyone is charged with a crime.

[LiberalArkie]

57. I wonder if the server was reformatted and then restored with a clean backup. Thus data is present

but not all the emails are. It would be no problem to delete certain emails then export the ones that are left. Then clean the drive and reinstall everything and import the cleaned message base. For all intents and purposes it would appear alright. Now was the drive "Wiped", I would have to testify "yes". Did it appear things were deleted "no". And the term "wiped" is a generic term. You "Wipe" a hard drive when you intentionally do something to remove the data. There are many levels of that dealing with security though.

If someone was to do all that, the problem could arise where an investigator might look into another email system and find a message and then not find that message on the sending/receiving system. That would indicate that the message(s) had been removed from the system. Investigators have numerous methods of tracking down a message, they just need to find a message sent by someone but not on the server they are examining.

[magical thyme]

70. "After the Clinton team finished scouring the messages, they had the server wiped clean, deleting

the rest of the contents." Per Cheryl Mills

Mills testified that they weren’t trying to hide anything when Clinton decided to wipe the server and that they were over-inclusive in what they thought might be a work-related message. Clinton has said the remaining, erased correspondence were "personal" in nature.

Panel Republicans are skeptical that Clinton preserved all her work-related emails — particularly after they discovered this spring about a dozen undisclosed Clinton emails in a separate set of messages they received from her longtime ally Sid Blumenthal. Those emails were work-related, they argue, and should have been included. They suspect there could be more that didn't make the cut before the server was erased.

Mills had no explanation for those emails, according to the GOP source familiar with the testimony.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/cheryl-mills-benghazi-testimony-213320#ixzz3klzYrEYQ

[LiberalArkie]

73. I know when I was working I used my personal MacBook a lot as it was easier to carry around

than logging in and out of the network with the corp notebook. Before I left I went into my managers office and showed him that I was deleting all the corporate stuff off my personal notebook. I had already deleted my personal stuff off my corporate notebook. I think that HRC should have deleted her personal emails and delivered the hard drive to the State department for them to do as they want.

But people in management positions do not do logical things very often. The CEO I worked for got canned because he had 2 DUI's. Just stupid.

[magical thyme]

76. there are specific requirements around government work

with specific requirements also around diplomacy, since so many of those communications are classified.

If you actually read the article, you'll see that Mills went through the emails to sort out work related versus personal. She pulled out what she deemed to be work related to hand over to state. And then they wiped the server, ie in some manner erased everything on it.

Turns out they deleted "personal" communications with her "friend" (informal advisor) Sidney Blumenthal that contained classified information. Blumenthal turned his copy of them over. That is why they are demanding she turn over everything. If her emails to Blumenthal (a private citizen) contained classified info, what other classified "personal" emails were not turned over and are "out there" for easy hacking.


This has nothing to do with how you, personally do your work or what you, personally, find more convenient. In a situation where much of your work is going to be classified, you convenience should not be a factor. Security and professionalism are.

Hillary doesn't even have to personally carry her "stuff" around. Her staff literally does that for her. She has a blackberry, an iphone, an ipad, and a notebook. One additional gadget for her personal communications shouldn't be such a big deal. She could have just made it a different color, ie black=state, red=me.

[LiberalArkie]

83. I totally agree with what you said.

[Robbins]

34. Oh jesus

we don't need this kind of talk.I am so pissed at clintons for making dems go through this crap.

[morningfog]

45. This is a preview for the next four years if we go with Hillary.

It's gonna be these legal messes non-stop and gridlock.

[ericson00]

42. I'll be frank, aside from believing her; I don't give a shit whatever she did about the server

it means nothing to America and doesn't affect the American people. The end. Now is the time for all good Democrats to come to the aid of their party country and honour the Clintons by making Hillary the 45th POTUS.

[morningfog]

46. She is not entitled to our honor.

She made herself a liability and has put the WH at risk due to her piss poor foresight and handling of this.

This is small potatoes and she has ham handedly botched the hell out of it.

[TwilightGardener]

82. Thoroughly indicative of how she'd run her administration. She ran the State Dept. poorly--

she put her own political hide and aspirations above national security requirements in refusing to follow proper email and communication policy. There may be laws broken. She does not deserve a promotion.

[Reter]

48. It doesn't matter whether Clinton was lying or telling the truth in August

When she said “Like with a cloth or something?” If she's lying, she's dishonest. If she's telling the truth, she comes across as ancient and way out of touch with technology. It was an absolutely awful answer. Expect Republicans to use it in commercials if she gets the nomination. Sanders should use it now.

[reddread]

49. it is what is is

who gets to stick the fork?

[HereSince1628]

64. Yes, unfortunately.

As this has become a pattern of the campaigns response, it gives the appearance that obfuscaton is the best defense they have.

It comes across as disingenuous, and contributes to mistrust.

Remind me, what are the polling numbers for HRCs trustworthiness/untrustworthiness?

[reddread]

75. one half of what they are going to be.

[restorefreedom]

50. this is just getting embarassing now

are we supposed to believe he is that clueless in his position?

just. wow.

[Major Hogwash]

52. Great pose she took in that picture.

Now everyone will believe everything she says.

[FlatBaroque]

63. .

¯\(ツ /¯

[magical thyme]

71. she looks like she even

dressed the part.

Really, she should avoid wearing orange pantsuits.

[mmonk]

55. It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

[Sancho]

59. Hillary's answer is actually correct...

as others here have posted, it's not always clear what is involved in "wiping" or "erasing" an electronic storage device. You can get a bunch of experts in the room, and they don't agree. What's also interesting is that .gov computers and private email are BOTH the same - unsecured and dependent on each user to determine what is "classified". In virtually every FOIA case, a review will "classify" more than whatever was in the original documents.

On Morning Joe this AM, the lawyers said they could find no single case of a prosecution for State Dept. employees using email in the manner that Hillary's staff was using it. (I'm paraphrasing while listening.)

Also, there are rules that communications must be preserved that conflict with rules that old computers that may or may not have "classified" communication must be erased or secured. One common practice is to save (or print) a copy of record and then "wipe" the unsecured computer.

Here are a few links:

http://gizmodo.com/5489933/leave-no-trace-how-to-completely-erase-your-hard-drives-ssds-and-thumb-drive

Leave No Trace: How to Completely Erase Your Hard Drives, SSDs and Thumb Drives

https://digital-forensics.sans.org/blog/2009/01/15/overwriting-hard-drive-data/

This post is based on a paper I published in December last year; "Overwriting Hard Drive Data: The Great Wiping Controversy" by Craig Wright, Dave Kleiman and Shyaam Sundhar R.S. as presented at ICISS2008 and published in the Springer Verlag Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) series.

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/1355974/Secure-hard-drive-data-destruction-sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut

A number of experts explain how to ensure all confidential data is removed from redundant machines.

https://www.microsoft.com/security/online-privacy/safely-dispose-computers-and-devices.aspx

When you get rid of sensitive paper documents, it’s a good idea to shred or burn them to help protect your privacy and prevent identity theft. Similarly, it’s important to erase your personal information from computers (desktop, laptop, or tablet) and other devices (smartphone, gaming console) before you dispose of them.

[MichMan]

72. "Like with a cloth or something?"

When she said "like with a cloth or something?" was a factually correct response?

She tried to make a smarky joke and it backfired, badly

[Sancho]

74. That's not true. She was saying that there's no definition of "wipe", and she's not the IT person..

just like the ignorance of many people on DU. Yes, it was a factually correct response. What kind of "wipe" do you mean? Are you actually asking the S0S a technical computer question that she had no hands-on reason to know anyway? Are you a dumb ass reporter?

If you didn't understand, that's fine. Hillary did not set up or have anything to do with the technical aspects of servers. As a lawyer, she was pointing out to the press that they didn't know a definition of "wipe" either.

Since you can get half a dozen IT experts in a room and they can't agree on a definition or process to "wipe" an unsecured computer - as Mad Magazine used to say, "It was a snappy answer to a stupid question."

The only logical thing anyone could say it what has ALREADY been reported over and over. The IT people took an old unsecured computer, backed up professionally (Google and McAfee) because officials are required to retain copies of work documents (even though a copy was sent to the State Dept.) , stored the backups on thumb drives with lawyers who had top secret clearance (even though that's not necessary for unclassified messages), erased the computer with some unknown process (whatever that particular company did as SOP), and stored the old computer.

The computer and thumb drives have been given to the FBI so they can check AGAIN what's there - but of course 90% was captured on .gov computers already. How many copies of the same thing are necessary?

It doesn't matter how it was erased, or even if it was erased.

[magical thyme]

78. "It doesn't matter how it was erased, or even if it was erased." Yes it does matter. nt

[Romulox]

77. “Like with a cloth or something?” = worthy of W. nt

[azmom]

79. The IT guy should know.

But he's not talking. Not good, not good at all.

[The Traveler]

84. That's nonsense

Ever since Ollie North's deleted PROF notes (equivalent to emails) were recovered from his hard drive you can bet your derriere that every politician and political operative understood the distinction between simple file deletion and wiping.

But it WAS a revelation to nontechnical people in the 80s ... and a horrifying one to the political class.

As North Learned, Deleted Files are Retrievable

Wiping, of course, is a well understood colloquial term for any measure taken to make it more difficult (or impossible) to recover deleted data. People, it's 2015. Computers are no longer a new thing. If these people really don't understand that I question their qualifications for political leadership. My teenagers understand that. My mother understood it before her passing in 1999. This is not esoteric anymore. It leaves folk asking, "Did this guy just insult my intelligence or is he really that clueless?"

This appears to me like classic Clintonian parsing ... and that is nothing more than the sharply trained legal mind at work. I happen to approve of sharply trained legal minds but this sort of thing just doesn't work well in the realm of public discourse because (quite frankly) most of the public just isn't into that kind of semantic analysis. Folk think yer tryin' to hide something from them. So I think this is disingenuous and damaging to the Clinton campaign.

BUT (disclosure: I am a Sanders supporter), in Ms Clinton's defense, we have to acknowledge that no one has been exposed to more systematically organized hatred over a longer period of time than the Clintons. It may well be that they know how best to deal with that. They had to deal with a bit of this before.

The email "scandal" just doesn't really seem to be that much of a scandal ... at worst "bad practice" (which would cost a normal person their clearance but it is understood that the Secretary of State has more latitude). The right wing hate machine will play with it as long as they can ("ooh! Shiny!&quot , and may in so doing screw themselves in the eyes of the American people. That may well be the Clinton strategy ... feed them rope with which to hang themselves.


Trav