2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOf an "enthusiasm Gap" for Hillary
Disclaimers: I was asked to make this an op over here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=45612
Second, as I say in the piece I realize that I need, not just want, need the GOP to lose, period.
Now, on with the piece:
There have been people since well before 2008 who have wanted Hillary, and who frankly will not care what they have to do to get her. Some parts of this is "It's about time we had a woman in power" types, people who genuinely feel that this is their best shot to elect a woman. Now, even the thickest headed people would fail to understand why someone would want battles over matters like Abortion Policy or Equal Pay to be fought by someone who has been at the brunt of such problems herself, especially in a culture where there is no shortage of very "serious" men who will happily defend the way women are attacked by this society. Even on Du, we have people chime in and say things about women that they would never be as free to say about any other minority.
However, this is where politics of identity fail. I would warn that the UK and Brazil have shown an ugly fact: just because the ruler is a woman does not mean she will govern for the benefit of women. Of Thatcher, so much was been written, but even Dilma Rouseff, someone who on paper looked so great, turned out to be a major disappointment. She allowed the World Cup to ravish Brasil, starve women and children, and plans to do the same in the Olympics, not to mention allowed many of her corrupt friends to steal. This was the former revolutionary, openly LGBT person who was going to help re-define the post cold war era. We need principles, not identity, as sadly many woman politicians will prove just as harmful as the males, and that is not even touching the group that the conservatives seem to have an abundant supply of, you betcha.
Then there is another type of Hillary enthusiast, less sincere, but more virulent. They are those who say they are liberal, but are really scared about the fact that many on the left are tired of liberals, namely because they have been leaning right for so long that the party's rudder snapped off! No matter how far the GOP goes to the right, many self declared "liberals" will seek that spot which is never too far from the right, thus assuring that even if the GOP wants to drive off the cliff, we will follow shortly. Sadly, the person that embodies that idea is Hillary Clinton who has defended the enemies of the left, the Military Industrial complex and Wall Street. What is worse is that when she defends these enemies of the left, she does it with a smirk, as she did when she made the "we came, we saw, he died" joke.
No one is saying she had to be Bernie, but people should not scratch their heads and wonder why great enthusiasm cannot be whipped up about someone that the left KNOWS will start working with their enemies the minute she gets in. It's is not enough that we are the ones working in the kitchen, but then we will be expected to throw ourselves into the soup, so that the Lloyd Blankfelds and Bibi Netanyahus can give Chef Hillary four stars.
And again, I know that would still be better than Chef Jeb Bush or Chef Donald Trump, but when you suddenly realize that you need ENTHUSIASM to get that one spare inch of turf that will get you over the finish line, do not yell at us and wonder where it is. I need, not want, need the GOP to lose, period, but that does not mean I will not keep my energies ready for the fight or flight I will need come January 2017, which is when Hillary's dinner patrons will start demanding their supper.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Her record says otherwise....
And what "enthusiasm gap"? She is STILL far ahead...plus he cannot win without MAJOR changes in Blacks, Hispanics and women.....there is your "low enthusiasm" for a candidate.
If you have to distort reality....you are not winning or being honest.
cali
(114,904 posts)And the enthusiasm gap is undoubtedly real, despite her being ahead.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Do you have any idea how funny that statement is?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)real that statement is....
Its called reality....reality on the ground.
Regardless that baseless attacks and demonstrably false accusations are lobbed at her....that fact still remains...
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It really has not even started yet.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Long time now....
Nothing recent about it now is it?
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I volunteered at the State Fair in Minnesota and I noted a distinct difference between the quantity of people going to Bernie Sanders table and Hillary Clintons. Of course neither candidate was in attendance but Bernie's table attracted about five times the number of people on a hot weekend afternoon.
He also had a lot more high energy supporters that were looking forward to caucusing for him.
I'm sorry, but the game on the ground isn't much different and it shows with the numbers that Senator Sanders attracts at his events.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Yeah there's some real scientific study right there!
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I feel like I'm discussing with a climate change denier. The polls showing Bernie rising are wrong because... Reasons. The fact his events are very well attended are... Proof that he's a fringer. Anyone that tells you they are supporting him are obviously just silly or stealth Republicans.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)msongs
(67,413 posts)flaws and weaknesses and will vote for her whether or not they attend mass rallies
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)The only numbers that matter are the ones on election day, and considering the fact that many of the purple states already have voter laws and harassment, it will take an extra effort to get people in those voting booths. Hillary needs to speak on matter like voting rights NOW, and not wait till the GOP fires, and she responds. That might be the DWS method, but we know how DWS wins elections.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I sometimes think that while I disagree with Hillary on a lot of issues that her strategy is actually significantly worse than her positions.
If she ends up being the candidate then I really hope she isn't taking advice from DWS because that is a recipe for a complete electoral melt-down. It would be 2000 all over again with the Democratic candidate attempting to play to the right to try to win over illusory "moderates" while failing to turn out their base.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Hillary Clinton's Record of Advocacy and Support of the TPP
I am linking the full contents of the source document as I wrote it and administer the group on facebook.
On the Transpacific Partnership; the trade deal that will cost American jobs, give power to multi-national corporations to sue the American tax payers' for creating laws that protect the environment, land, food/water supply, workers rights, and public health from their toxic policies and practices and create international tribunals staffed by multi-national corporations to hear the cases outside of US courts.
The US media has portrayed Clinton's record on this policy as undefined and tried to frame her obsfuscation on the subject as indicative of possible opposition while failing to report her direct involvement and advocacy of the policy as Secretary of State:
(more @ link)
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)Did I understand you correctly?
HRC is too conservative for me. That is one of the reasons I support Bernie. That being said, I see no need to flee the country if HRC should be the nominee and defeat the Republican candidate.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)The only "enthusiasm" gap Hillary Clinton has is with DU. In REAL life, she's the clear democratic front runner.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)telling the truth and bringing integrity.
Period.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Personallly....its actually quite painless.....we all should try and practice it.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)can go to hell.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I 'm suggesting we all try some integrity and truth....
demwing
(16,916 posts)that's personal
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)Mine is Ron Green.
eridani
(51,907 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)here's a good example.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251568438
That is what grassroots enthusiasm looks like. Hillary doesn't have it. She never will.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)It's all anecdotal, of course, but around here, I've seen several Bernie bumper stickers and everyone's talking about him.
I've seen no HRC stickers and no one is mentioning her unless it's to talk about the emails.
Of course, most people are talking about Trump because he's all that's on the news, but most people also mention that he's an idiot.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)However, those that can't bother to be objective won't just pick bones, they'll swallow your soul - so to speak.
Anytime I can shoehorn in an Evil Dead quote I must.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't an original idea.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)but history does:
FDR is an agreed upon liberal, and he introduced acts like Glass Steagall,because, like many liberals, he knew you needed to draw lines in the sand so that the bankers would not tramples the roses and ruin your crops. She sad she would not consider putting it back.
Now, if you are going to throw rocks and accuse me of trying to define who is liberal, then you have top make the case that she IS, and no ignoring money matters is NOT being liberal, as FDR certainly knew he had to pay attention to the rich that then, as now, broke our economy.
but see matters where there have been clear lines in the sand, the Death Penalty, Support for Teacher's unions, and yes, WAR, you will see where she has gone to the right. Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but Hillary has shown a willingness to abandon liberal positions, to the point where the two parties are now Reagan Democrat and Libertarian Christian fundamentalist, which is to say, no room for liberals.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)How about "We get it, You dislike Clinton...etc."
Sorry buit "hate" is a despicable, loaded word, and it gets tossed around like a beanbag too easily.
Do you "hate" Sanders or O'Malley?
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)especially as I have said I will vote for her if she is the nominee.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)if it was about anybody else.
If there is an enthusiasm gap it is because the rightwing conspiracy to destroy her, very active on DU for example, and elsewhere, is very well funded and has a lot of experience at these tactics.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)if we are tired of her willing to go to war?
If we wish she would at least put back Glass Steagall?
Or oppose the Keystone Pipeline
Or Oppose the TPP?
Those do not sound right wing to me, and frankly, I know I am not getting paid. Did'nt it used to be an alert offense to accuse someone of being a paid right winger? Not that I would bother, because the brave person known as "no explanation given" would kill that alert.
You realize most of us that weren't enthused about Hillary haven't been enthused about her for a decade or more. Her stances on the issues weren't as progressive and she took a lot of money from Wallstreet again and again.
She ran for a safe Senate seat in New York and won. But since then most of us haven't been all that impressed.
Her votes that we take issue with were not part of some GOP plot. How the hell is the establishment candidate attracting all these people that believe that Karl Rove is under every bed and behind every keyboard rigging the election just so Hillary doesn't get to run in the general election?
None of this makes any damned sense.
There is an enthusiasm gap. It is a real thing felt by some progressives. It isn't a plot. We aren't deluded. We just feel there are better options on the table.
How hard is that to understand?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And working people. And the evil of militarism.
Just as I have settled for John Kerry in 2004 being the John Kerry of 1971...a person he had no reason to ever stop being.