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groovedaddy

(6,229 posts)
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:27 PM Jul 2012

How Pensions Violate Free Speech (makes a damn good point!)

(when your own money can be used against your best interests, there's something really, really wrong! But then, we already knew that! - gd)

A CENTRAL principle of American political life is that everyone gets to choose which candidates to support. The idea that the government could force us to support those we oppose is anathema. But this unacceptable state of affairs is one of the unintended consequences of the Supreme Court’s decision in the 2010 Citizens United case.

That’s because the vast majority of people who work in the public sector — state, local and federal employees — are required to make contributions to a pension plan. Nearly all states make participation in a pension plan mandatory and a “condition of employment” for public employees. To get and keep your job with the government, you have to give some of your paycheck to the pension plan.

Public pensions, moreover, are so-called defined benefit plans, which means that employees don’t have a say in how their mandatory contributions are invested. The employees cannot request, for example, that their money be used only to buy government bonds or that it be invested only in certain mutual funds or only in select corporations.

Instead, the employees’ money is invested according to whatever decisions the pension plan’s trustee makes. And, not surprisingly, pension plans invest heavily in corporate securities: in 2008, public pensions held about $1.15 trillion in corporate stock.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/opinion/under-citizens-united-public-employees-are-compelled-to-pay-for-corporate-political-speech.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120713

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How Pensions Violate Free Speech (makes a damn good point!) (Original Post) groovedaddy Jul 2012 OP
You know the solution to that is 401ks which have no income guarantees right? dkf Jul 2012 #1
And that is so not true. I have been in several pension plans that allowed groovedaddy Jul 2012 #4
Pensions violate free speech? Brewinblue Jul 2012 #2
quote from the article GeorgeGist Jul 2012 #3
Isn't the point of this piece to demonstrate that profits from public employees groovedaddy Jul 2012 #5
Almost all union pensions run the same way Brewinblue Jul 2012 #6
Why is that the only option? How about those employees being groovedaddy Jul 2012 #8
OK Brewinblue Jul 2012 #7
 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
1. You know the solution to that is 401ks which have no income guarantees right?
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:54 PM
Jul 2012

You have been so bamboozled.

groovedaddy

(6,229 posts)
4. And that is so not true. I have been in several pension plans that allowed
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:28 AM
Jul 2012

ME options of where to invest the funds in the plan. I can direct the money away institutions that are using proceeds for political positions that I don't support. This piece is essentially saying that public employees don't have that option. Why shouldn't they have it?

Brewinblue

(392 posts)
2. Pensions violate free speech?
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 01:06 PM
Jul 2012

WTF?

A pension plan does not prevent ANYONE from saying whatever they like, the trustee, however, is legally bound by his/her fiduciary duty to make investments that in his professional opinion are solely in the best interests of the plan participants.

The biggest problem facing future retirees today is not a lack of choice in pension investment direction, it is the abandonment of pensions by employers and their substitution by 401(k) plans that shift all risk to the employees -- pension risk is entirely that of the employer.

Employees are almost never qualified to actually make prudent investment decisions while trying to maximize investment gains. The vast majority of 401(k) participants habitually chase returns, buying high and selling low. I speak from experience having been a retirement plan attorney for 20 years.

GeorgeGist

(25,321 posts)
3. quote from the article
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 01:19 PM
Jul 2012
What Citizens United failed to account for, however, is that a significant portion of the money that corporations are spending on politics is financed by equity capital provided by public pension funds — capital contributions that the government requires public employees to finance with their paychecks.

This consequence of Citizens United is perverse: requiring public employees to finance corporate electoral spending amounts to compelled political speech and association, something the First Amendment flatly forbids.

groovedaddy

(6,229 posts)
5. Isn't the point of this piece to demonstrate that profits from public employees
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:33 AM
Jul 2012

pension funds are being used to political speech that they may not support?
i.e., If I don't like the Koch bros. political activities I can choose to buy other products to keep my money from going to them, right? As the article stated, public employees, in the these defined pension plans, don't have the right to direct their funds to ,say, government bonds, where it won't be used for political speech. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Brewinblue

(392 posts)
6. Almost all union pensions run the same way
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:04 AM
Jul 2012

So let's just close those and put 100% of the burden on the employees.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

groovedaddy

(6,229 posts)
8. Why is that the only option? How about those employees being
Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:03 AM
Jul 2012

able to direct where their pension funds go WITHIN the plan?

Brewinblue

(392 posts)
7. OK
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:12 AM
Jul 2012

So Republicans have every right to stop paying taxes to the extent any of it goes toward social programs?

Grow up, a democratic republic does not mean everyone has a say in everything.

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