Hillary's ties to Wall Street are no joke. It's a promise, writ large, and it is NOT in your favor.

[Bonobo]

I know it's boring. Wall Street. Yawn. I feel the same way. But if you can take a moment and let me describe for you the seedy normalcy of the incestuous relationship between Hillary and Wall Street.

God knows I'm not well educated in this stuff. It bores the hell out of me. But if you take some time to look at it, as I have done, I promise you will want to vomit. I am sorry that this post is not organized well. I don't have that much time since I work long hours and I am now up very late trying to do my honest best to show what Hillary Clinton represents.

I expect some of you will think "hit piece" or "digging for dirt" but honestly, I believe I am just one of many who are sickened by this already. We have had enough! We fucking want an honest person who has the interests of regular people in mind!

Let's just look at one guy, a pal of Hillary who is an important part of her campaign right now. His case is illustrative.

His name is Tom Nides. Things started out pretty normal for this University of Minnesota graduate. But then, look at this:

1986-1989 Chief of Staff to Rep. Tony Cooelho (D-CA)
1989-1993 Chief of Staff to Rep. Tom Foley (D-WA)
1994 Chief of Staff to US Trade Representetive Mickey Kantor
1998-2001 Senior Vice President of Fannie Mae
2001-2004 CEO Credit-Suisse First Boston
2005-2010 CEO of Morgan Stanley
2011 - 2013 Dept. Secretary of State
2013 – 2015 - Rejoins Morgan Stanley as Vice President
2015 Joins Hillary Campaign

Now advisor and top MONEY bundler for Hillary Clinton. He brings her more money from Goldman Sacchs than any republican gets!
He is also:
Former chairman of the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (Sifma), the main lobbying group for Wall Street

Furthermore, he is married to Virginia Moseley CNN’s VP and deputy Washington Bureau Chief

When he started working for Hillary Clinton at the State Dept., he was paid between 5 million to 25 million dollars to go and work for the government as part of his contract. And it is because of her cozy relationship and comfort with this kind of sleazy revolving door that she is not amenable to The Financial Services Conflict of Interest Act offered by Elizabeth Warren, a bill that both O'Malley and Sanders say they would support.


And people, people, people, it the TIP OF THE ICEBERG. You don't even want to know how deep these ties go because I didn't even mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees Hillary has received from Goldman Sachs or the hundreds of millions she gets in donations from them... It is deep Deep and ugly and this IS what you will get from Hillary.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/30/two-big-reasons-hillary-clinton-isnt-taking-elizabeth-warrens-revolving-door-dare/

The Financial Services Conflict of Interest Act would prohibit government officials from accepting “golden parachutes” from their former employers for entering public service.

Within days, Democratic candidate Martin O’Malley endorsed the legislation, and Sen. Bernie Sanders became a co-sponsor. But presumed Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton has not said where she stands.

One possible explanation for Clinton’s lack of interest in banning golden parachutes is that she tolerated them when she ran the State Department — for two of her top aides. Robert Hormats and Thomas Nides previously worked as executives for financial firms Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, respectively. Both received benefits tied to their Wall Street employment contracts for entering public service.

Nides, a six-figure bundler in Clinton’s past and present presidential campaigns, worked for Fannie Mae, Credit Suisse and as a top executive at Morgan Stanley from 2005 to 2010. He became deputy secretary of state for management and resources in January 2011, replacing Jack Lew, who had himself received a golden parachute from Citigroup for entering government service. Nides received a payout on Morgan Stanley restricted stock units worth between $5 million and $25 million, according to his financial disclosure. His Morgan Stanley compensation plan “allows for acceleration of payout … if employee is required to divest of interest in order to comply with federal, state or local government conflict of interest requirements.”

Nides and Hormats are not alone in what has become a depressingly standard practice in recent years. But Clinton’s unusual control over staffing at the State Department makes her directly responsible for these particular golden parachutes, at a time when she wants to gain control over staffing of the entire executive branch.

[cantbeserious]

1. Agree - Hillary Is A Member Of The 1% Club - She Will Protect The 1% First, Last And Always

eom

[Sienna86]

17. Agreed

There's no way to rationalize this information if you are a Democrat.

[hifiguy]

23. None, but for some membership in the Cult of Personality

is vastly more important than silly things like principles.

[lewebley3]

28. So was FDR 1%: and that didn't stop him from being the Best President

[Armstead]

36. The Op is about where one;'s loyalties are

FDR was willing to kick sand in the face of his own class to advance the interest of average people and the disadvantaged, Hillary, not so much.

[hifiguy]

37. +1

FDR never made any bones about where his sympathies lay, and it wasn't with "his" class. Not in the least.


FDR: "I welcome their hatred!"

HRH: "Please give me your money!"

The difference is pretty plain, IMO.

[Enthusiast]

46. Excellent point, Armstead.

Huge difference.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

47. And if FDR wanted to favor the rich ...

... Eleanor would kick his butt.

[lewebley3]

54. Yes, she has: She has put her whole life against the GOP

Last edited Wed Aug 26, 2015, 05:08 PM - Edit history (1)

[Tommymac]

79. Except for 1963/4. nt

[JDPriestly]

97. But not against those in the 1% who cheat and take more than their share of the nation's

resources, profits and wealth.

[lewebley3]

148. The Dem party is not the 1%, and Hillary has been one of its leaders

The GOP are reps of the 1%, I sorry Hillary is wonderful
loyal Dem.

[azmom]

153. LOL

[840high]

90. ...^ that

[George II]

49. And JFK, and LBJ, and Jimmy Carter.

Some thinnk that "ties" (whatever that means from day to day) precludes being a President FOR the people. Sad that it overshadows, in their minds, everything that a candidate can do.

Unfortunately the attempts to tear down Hillary Clinton won't give the nomination to Sanders, but it could make the general election a lot closer than it has to be and possibly give it to the republican nominee.

It's extremely short sighted.

[JDPriestly]

98. FDR investigated those who were involved in the fraud that led to the crash of 1929 and the

Great Depression. Obama did not do that. Hillary takes money from employees and managers of the brokerage houses and companies that brought down the US in 2008.

[PatrickforO]

100. No. Bernie can win.

[Rockyj]

112. There is NO WAY that ANY GOP Presidental

Candidate will win in 2016.
Very few Women, Minorities & Youth will vote for GOP.
The lesser of two evils does not apply here, Senator Bernie Sanders will WIN!

[senz]

88. FDR championed the little guy. Thoroughly, completely.

He welcomed the hatred of the people whom Hillary courts.

No comparison.

[BlueCaliDem]

161. FDR was also HATED by the Left of his day.

UPDATED: Liberal Criticism of Franklin Roosevelt and The New Deal

Now that same group wax poetically about his "New Deal". Can't make this stuff up.

[lewebley3]

183. Yes, there is, Hillary champions the little guy: and everyone else: All American's

Hillary has been the leader and is working to become the Dem
party leader. The Dem party is the party of the people, most
Dem's are not the 1%.

FDR and Teddy new all the big players, just like Hillary!

[JDPriestly]

96. FDR was relentless in investigating the causes of the 1929 crash and the Depression.

Obama failed to do that.

[lewebley3]

140. Change the subject to Obama:Because I checkmated you on FDR

[Fawke Em]

170. No you didn't!

You were told a zillion times that FDR rejected his own class to provide for the working class.

That you choose to ignore that is NOT a checkmate.

[lewebley3]

184. There were Different players in 1929: FDR had huge majorities: Obama, is a good Presidnet sorry

[merrily]

109. You ignored half of cantbeserious's brief post.

It said, " Agree - Hillary Is A Member Of The 1% Club - She Will Protect The 1% First, Last And Always."

[sabrina 1]

179. Just show us what Hillary has done

to show she is anything like FDR. Welfare 'Reform' eg?

You are free to list the ways in which Hillary has demonstrated how similar she has been on policies, to FDR.

Otherwise the continuous tossing of FDR into the mix is nothing more than an attempt to distract, and a very, very bad one, because what it does is remind people of who in this race actually IS like FDR.

That would be Bernie Sanders.

[BeanMusical]

190. You never liked her anyway.

[lewebley3]

33. Disagree: Hillary is not a trust fund baby: FDR was and he was great!

[me b zola]

70. FDR was a friend to working class people as evidenced by the New Deal and other policies

FDR gave us social security. Hillary wants to "make adjustments" to social security.

Know them by their policy positions and deeds.

[lewebley3]

71. Hillary is friend to the working class: Clintons raised taxes on rich

Last edited Thu Aug 27, 2015, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

[cantbeserious]

75. Wishful Thinking

eom

[L0oniX]

81. LMFAO ...keep trying.

[merrily]

108. Nor has she known financial hardship.

Her father owned a textile business, selling to hotels and hotel chains. She grew up in a wealthy area and her father bought a new Cadillac or a new Lincoln every year. In the 40s and 50s, that would have been a huge deal. As she proved to us, she has no clue what being "dead broke" actually means.

And, as of 2008, she and her husband alone--not counting their daughter--were worth well over $100 million--under the very general federal reporting requirements--even though now she reports only her current individual net worth of about $23 million. The efforts to portray her humble beginnings are a fail. She's running on her mother's poverty--and I would not be even a little surprised if that, too, were exaggerated.

As for FDR, centrists have tried for years to discredit him and his policies. just as they try to discredit anything and everything to their left.

[lewebley3]

143. Yes, Hillary has know financial hardship: Why it matters I dont know

FDR was a very rich man, and he did fine as President

[merrily]

146. She has not. She's no FDR, either.

[lewebley3]

151. Hillary is closer to FDR are than Sanders: She's a party loyalist!

FDR are said that a good President has to be a good poker
player. That mean knowing how to play the came of politics,
not just right on the issues. The Clinton's are very talented
poker players in politics, that is why Hillary is the Dem's
best shot. ( and she is right on issues, she will sign anything
the Dem's have enough votes for).

Sanders have never played cards, he has only live a one
party rule small state. 6200000pop

[merrily]

154. Hilarious post. Thanks for the laughs.

[lewebley3]

166. Just the facts

[cali]

2. $$$$=access=influence

[Zorra]

3. It is our obligation to democracy as American citizens to ensure Clinton is defeated in the

primaries.

[SonderWoman]

5. ...

Bernie and Wayne 'NRA' Lapierre.

[cali]

8. so link to where Bernie has gushed sickening praise of him

Like Hill has over Kissinger- multiple times.

[HappyPlace]

11. And just WTF is that supposed to mean?

Is Sanders taking money? No.

Desperation, it's getting thicker and thicker.

[hifiguy]

26. It really is, isn't it.

[George II]

53. Being ahead in most of the state polls by two or three to one isn't "desperation".

[short circuit]

25. The very same organization that gave Bernie a D- and F respectively

so, fail.

[Armstead]

38. Attempted deflection -3

NNNNNNNNPPPPPP.

You want to debate Sanders' positions on gun control. Hey, why not start a thread?

[SMC22307]

94. Wayne doesn't look happy.

Perhaps one more reason why Sanders rates so poorly with the NRA.

[Fawke Em]

171. Pssst...

That is NOT Wayne LaPierre.

LaPierre looks like this:



Don't know who that guy is, but it's not the NRA dude. It's just a picture of Sanders with an unnamed man used in a story on the NRA's website.

[senz]

87. I think you're right, Zorra.

This is our task between now and next summer. I hope, for the sake of our children and grandchildren, that we can do it.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. You will never convince her supporters

If they can overlook her "friendship" with America's worst war criminal, Henry Kissinger, they can rationalize any failing.

[staggerleem]

24. "America's worst war criminal."

Hmmm ... let's see now - Cheney ... Kissinger ... Cheney ... Kissinger ... Cheney ... Kissinger ...

I have neither the time nor the energy to have this debate - even if only with myself! Calling it a draw & moving on.

[hifiguy]

27. It's Kissinger.

The deliberate dragging on of the Vietnam war so Tricky Dick and Kissinger could announce "peace" with "honor" just before the 1972 election cost the lives of more than 20,000 US soldiers and upwards of half a million Vietnamese military and civilians. Exactly the same terms LBJ could have got in 1968. And that's just Vietnam. There were Bangladesh, Chile, and Argentina just to name a few others.

Cheney is indescribably horrible and a strong #2 but Kissinger is in a class by himself. And HRH calls him a friend. Nuff said.

[Fuddnik]

43. Cheney was an apprentice to Kissinger.

The Master didn't teach him all the dark secrets.

[hifiguy]

44. Nope.

Cheney killed people with chainsaws, so to speak. Kissinger is a master of more subtle and even more lethal black arts.

[staggerleem]

57. But Kissinger ...

... never shot a huntin' buddy in the face - and made HIM apologize for getting in the way!

[hifiguy]

59. Henry the K would have had someone do the shooting for him.

He always maintained "plausible" deniability.

[kenfrequed]

118. Eh...

Cheney brought in more of the Neo-con devotees of Leo Strauss who wanted conflict based on mythology. They didn't care about the truth as long as control of society could be assured through conflict.

Kissinger was more reasoned and wanted rational interests of nations to dictate treaties and policy but he was absolutely ruthless in how he carried this out and would happily use human lives as bargaining chips. Killing more people in Vietnam and SE Asia was just a means to leverage the Chinese and Soviet Union towards better deals.


Gods... I don't know who is worse.

[lewebley3]

62. Not true: Bush and Cheney are America's war criminals

Last edited Wed Aug 26, 2015, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[MoveIt]

119. And Hillary voted to greenlight that war when others knew better

That disqualified her in my book.

[lewebley3]

137. No she didn't vote for a war: she voted for the use of force with the UN

Last edited Thu Aug 27, 2015, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Bush chose the war he said so!

[MoveIt]

158. My Representative figured it out

Clinton chose expediency.

[lewebley3]

163. The War was Bushes choice alone: He said so: The Clintons made

A different choice!

[frylock]

173. The Clintons?

[Kelvin Mace]

68. Oh they are both quite evil,

but Kissinger has Cheney beat on the number of corpses he is responsible for.

[Autumn]

6. I like Hillary, she has done a lot of good things. But as far as my support goes

this is one big area where she loses me.

[SonderWoman]

7. Impressive career for Tom.

[cali]

9. you've been crystal clear

You don't think there's a problem with this kind of revolving door cronyism.

[SonderWoman]

10. Which laws were broken?

Guy has a remarkable career. That's all my comment was about.

[cali]

12. many things are legal that are wrong. your candidate

excoriated big money in politics, made legal by the Supreme Court.

[Ed Suspicious]

15. 1994 looks to have been a life-changing year for this guy. He goes to work for the Trade Rep

Last edited Wed Aug 26, 2015, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

and comes out the other side a VP at a financial firm, the first in a string of high profile financial firms, then comes back to public service to work for the most friendly Democratic Party candidate to the finance industry? Amazing what friends in high places can do when you are on the side that brings them more money at all costs.

[staggerleem]

55. I would amend that statement ...

... to "the most friendly DEMOCRATIC candidate". T-Rump and his fellow Repukes aren't exactly hostile to Wall St., now, are they?

[Ed Suspicious]

63. Good point. Fixed.

[99th_Monkey]

16. Yes. A remarkably wealthy, privileged, ostentatious Wall St. insider. True dat. nt

[lewebley3]

31. No, I don't think there is a problem: FDR didn't have any problem

Last edited Wed Aug 26, 2015, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

He was much richer, he was connected to everyone: He
married his cousin in the white house with Teddy
watching. Sorry, we have known Hillary for years: she
has served the public: when the Clintons were in office
they raised taxes on the rich.

[Armstead]

39. And gave Wall Street and Big Bidness a lot of pretty presents that have ruined the economy

[lewebley3]

133. The GOP ruined the economy: Not rich Dem's

The GOP policies has since Coolidge have been to
crashing the economy; FDR stopped the boom or
bust mostly till Ragan: Then the crashing started
again.
Like Trump the GOP never understands government
job is the welfare of the American people.

Governments job is not the business of business:
business is a by product of the freedoms under
a Democratic government. In so far that it helps the
America people, government should enter into
partnerships with business:

The problem with Wall ST is that it is exactly
what the GOP wanted: and of course it didn't
work.

[Armstead]

144. I agree qith you about the GOP but...

The "centrist" Democrats (have to distinguish) embodied by the Clintons were equally responsible.

They ignored antitrust laws while huge monopolies were being formed in banking and every other industry. They went along with or pushed deregulation, privatization and other polices that greased the wheels....and they deliberately stifled those who tried to point out the danger of these trends. And it's still going on.

Also, a correction. The economy sucked in the latter 1970's. It dd not run well. That gave the GOP and Big Corporations the ammo to impose these awful policies and establish a new set of Darwinian harsh attitudes and values.

Unfortunately, instead of tweaking liberalism to address the mess the country was in, the "centrist" Democrats threw the baby out with the bathwater, and went along with the CONservatuve take over

[lewebley3]

145. Why to do look to Dem's for blame: These are GOP dream policy

[Armstead]

150. Because the only way to fixx the problem is to acknowledge it

It is not pleasurable. I (and many others) wanted to be able to root for the Clintons and Democrats over the years, but saw them acting in ways that echoed the GOP and their "unregulated free market utopia" far too often.

The anger that many people feel abut this is not some overnight whim. It is the result of watching over the years, and seeing the process and the results.

The only way to correct course and actually be a force that challenges the GOP and their CONservative philosophy again is to look at the Big Picture objectively, and see how the Democrats contributed to gthe problem. (NAFTA, deregulatin, refusal to bring out anti-trust laws, putting down liberalism, etc.)

[lewebley3]

152. We know what the problem is the GOP: All the Dem's know that!

[Armstead]

156. They are a big part of the problem -- but NOT the only part

You can do some research back at the various turning points and what actually went on. I haven't the time to point them out, but Google is your friend.

Maybe start with the whole subject of free trade NAFTA, the WTO, "Most Favored nation" status with China.

Or media deregulation of 1996.

Or banking/financial services deregulation in the 1990's.

Or the non-response by most Democratic leaders to every large and increasingly awful monopolistic merger since the 1980s.

etc.

[lewebley3]

164. Clinton's were in power over 16 years ago: Diff times Diff solutions

The Result was one the most peaceful and successful
Administrations in History.

We deregulation made since under them in somethings,
but, the Clinton's did not in act GOP policy that crashed
and the economy:

Bush could have made changes to fix the economy
if they the want to protect the America people.

Bush and GOP didn't want to: They like all the greed,
and enrich the cronies: Bush favorite thing was
crony capitalism.

[Armstead]

165. Diff times need dif solutions

which is why we need some new input into the process

[lewebley3]

168. Hillary has new ideas, she is putting new plans everyday:

Sanders is just rehashing old Dem ideas

[Armstead]

169. Old ideas like what?

[TheFarS1de]

181. Democracy .

eom .

[lewebley3]

185. The expansion of SS has always been a dream of Dem's since FDR: Nothing new

Sanders whole campaign; could be summed up in an old song
"Everything Old is New again". This songs goes way back
maybe as far as FDR.

What the Dem's need is to do is to take power from the GOP, and
the Clinton's are crafty enough as FDR to do it.

FDR said, it takes a good card player to win an election,
Hillary should play her cards close to the vest and then
she can be like FDR, throw some great cards to the America
People, which we know she will do because when the
Clinton's were office they did just that. (Check the Clintons buddgets)

(Koch's particularly feel betrayed by the Clinton's with EPA)

[Armstead]

186. You've said nothing about ideas in governing

Winning an election is the means to an end.

Okay you obliquely referred to reducing the deficit (a conservative goal). But that was done with the GOP, and during a very different economy than now in the artificial boom.

[lewebley3]

187. I want Hillary to govern like Bill, and like Obama: Smart, fighting, and caring.

FDR said that his form of government was that of a tinker,
he said he would get under the hood, and try things.

FDR didn't have much off a plan, but he knew he was
working for all of America.

Also, he had very positive out look about getting things done,
just like Bill and Hillary.

[Armstead]

188. I asked you about the outdated ideas you referred to getting away from

More specifically than we should "govern like Bill and Obama"

What outdated policies and approaches did they abandon? What basic liberal principles do you believe are outdated?

[lewebley3]

189. Right: That is why Hillary will have to change some of Bills and Obama's policies: Diff times!

Hillary will be a bit of a tinker like FDR, she will have
to chose her battles, but we known that she is supports
Dem party policies, and whenever them Dem's have enough
the votes for legislation she will sign. (Hillary is a team player)



As far as forward policies, there are many, she is putting
them out everyday: Today, she is almost the only person pledging
to take on the NRA, if she were President she may not win against the NRA, but
they would be in battle.

[Enthusiast]

48. The problem was legislation that Bill signed that he should have vetoed.

[lewebley3]

56. One piece of legislation: among thousand is meaningless

The Clinton economy was geared to helping the
poor and the middle class.

We already of have the evidence for the Clinton's choices
they had one of most successful Administrations in history.

There are bill that Obama I think should have been vetoed: however
over all he is a great President.

[staggerleem]

58. Sorry, but "one piece of legislation" can mean an awful lot!

The repeal of Glass-Steagle has done more to ruin this economy than any hundred other legislative bungles. WE NEED THOSE PROTECTIONS BACK!

[lewebley3]

61. Glass-steagle: Is just a left wing talking point: Since Bush was elected

He removed SEC: and what people he could to put
in charge of looking after the banks were his cronies.

Clinton is not responsible for Bush and GOP choices,
Glass-Steagle would never had stood in Bush's way.

Heck: Bush wrote his own torture rules!

Repealing Steagle didn't help, but Phil Gram in Senate
wanted it, it was a GOP policy.

Clinton usually got something for the American people
out of any deals with GOP.

[L0oniX]

82. No doubt you didn't lose your job and home.

[beam me up scottie]

85. A "left wing talking point"?

Who says that?

[SMC22307]

101. Wall Street ConservaDems who parrot Ann Coulter.

Squawk! Liberals suck!

They're adorable.

[beam me up scottie]

102. I thought I was on the wrong website for a minute there...

[SMC22307]

103. Nope. And thanks to SonderWoman's now hidden post...

I learned all about Republican Richard Tarrant, who lost to Sanders by a whopping 33 percentage points. Not being too familiar with Vermont politics, I found it interesting. Hospice finance scandal? Bankruptcy collusion? Sounds like quite a guy. And to think a fellow DUer would trot out a Tarrant attack video to slime Sanders. Tsk tsk.

[beam me up scottie]

104. Imagine their outrage if a Bernie supporter posted a Republican ad against Hillary.

That's a new low but I expect more of the same.

[Bonobo]

105. That wasn't JUST a Repub attack ad!

It was one accusing him of being a pedophile essentially.

I have NEVER seen anything on DU that was lower than that. Ever.

[beam me up scottie]

106. It was as bad as the racial slur one of her supporters used when they called Bernie a racist.

Keep that thread bookmarked for the next time they complain about Bernie supporters posting "hit pieces" from legitimate sources like the NYT or Mother Jones.

[arcane1]

138. Do you have a link to that thread?

I think I missed it

[beam me up scottie]

167. Sure do:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371

Anti-Semitic and racist, that person should have been ts'd imo.

[lewebley3]

141. Tom Hartman is the only one know who push this idea: about Glass-S

[staggerleem]

192. A right-wing troll, no doubt. /nt

[staggerleem]

194. Do you have a clue ...

... regarding exactly WHAT Glass-Steagle was ABOUT??

Essentially, it said that any single banking corporation can either be a commercial bank OR an investment bank - NOT both. When that law was in effect, The "big 6" had to spin off independent investment banking corporations.

Now, they can just take your checking and/or savings account to the world's largest casino (aka Wall St.) and place their bets. And if they lose their bets? Then they're just like Alex Trebeck, when a Jeopardy contestant loses it all on a Daily Double ... "SO sorry! ... next answer, Jim!"

[arcane1]

135. That's the lamest cop-out I've seen all week n/t

[SMC22307]

95. You might benefit from watching this...

all seven episodes:

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-roosevelts/watch-videos/

[BeanMusical]

126. "He married his cousin in the white house with Teddy watching."

OFFS, Teddy and FDR were fifth cousins and Eleonore (Hillary's idol BTW) was Teddy's niece. What you're trying to do is beyond disgusting.

[lewebley3]

131. I didnt say 1st cousins

My points was the the Roovlets were one of the riches
and most elite family, it didn't stop FDR from being a
good President.

[BeanMusical]

132. You said: "He married his cousin in the white house with Teddy watching."

You meant it to sound like it was a horrible thing. Period. As for the rest of your reply I have no idea what this word salad means.

[lewebley3]

134. You get a history book: I don't have time to home school you

[BeanMusical]

139. Lol!

The irony.

[hifiguy]

174. Probably not. You clearly haven't schooled yourself.

This is so close to trolling it isn't even funny.

[99th_Monkey]

13. K$R nt

[colsohlibgal]

14. Hillary Supporters Seem Obliviuous To All That

They just think it's her turn...as a Clinton and/or as a woman.

They want her as president, period.

We are way overdue to have a female in the WH. If it was Elizabeth Warren or another progressive woman I'd be all in. But another neo, Wall Street democrat is not the answer. We'll see some more Rubin/Friedman disciples as her money team, and other directions and appointees we don't want.

[fadedrose]

18. Many of them are paid supporters

Not all --

[lewebley3]

32. Hillary is just best Dem we have to become President: Its not about turns

[Nitram]

34. I find it disgusting that Sandres supporters accuse Clinton supporters...

...of supporting her only because "it's her turn" and/or "she's a woman". That's not only a straw dog argument, it is also demeaning of fellow liberals. But, of course, Bernistas are litmus test liberals, and they don't consider anybody a liberal who would support Clinton over Sanders. Shame on you!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. i find it disgusting that some people make stuff up.

NEVER have I heard any such argument from Sanders supporters. I only hear it from worried, fretful, Hillary folks who realize that Sanders' support is growing, and her's is stalling.

[Nitram]

50. Never heard such an argument? Look at the comment 4 posts above yours by Colsohlibgal.

Not the first time I've seen the same sentiment expressed by Bernista.

"Hillary Supporters Seem Obliviuous [sic] To All That They just think it's her turn...as a Clinton and/or as a woman."

[hedda_foil]

83. Okay. Let's cut out the implication, since it doesn't apply to all of you.

"Hillary Supporters Seem Obliviuous To All That."

That is, in fact what many of us have observed.

We're not bashing or smearing or hating Hillary. It's just us Dems trying to be intellectually honest. You are fully entitled to your opinion of your candidate. Obviously she has many passionate supporters. And if she wins the nomination, all but a vanishingly small remnant of Bernie supporters will vote for her because she is far, far preferable to any of the clowns in the other party.

[Armstead]

40. Agreee with you and totally disagree with you

You are correct it is unfair to accuse Clinton supporters of that.

But you are just as wrong headed when you refer to Sanders supporters in equally broad-brush stereotypical and insulting terms.

[Nitram]

52. I'm just quoting Colsohlibgal in this thread...

[staggerleem]

60. Most of us "Bernistas" ...

... do our best to support Bernie WITHOUT trashing Hillary (as Bernie himself refuses to do, regardless of how reporters may try to goad him into it)- the circular firing squad is NEVER helpful!

Myself, I'm 100% behind Sanders ... UNTIL THE CONVENTION. After the convention, my support goes to the Democratic nominee - WHOEVER THAT MAY BE (again, JUST LIKE BERNIE!)

[FlatBaroque]

19. Isn't it time to have a woman President?

[Enthusiast]

51. It's a shame that Elizabeth Warren will not run.

[Ed Suspicious]

64. I don't vote based upon gender. Any time is a good time to have a woman president so long as she

stands with me. Otherwise, I don't give a rats ass which race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual preference, etc.

[cali]

66. I will not choose a candidate by gender or ethnicity but by ideas.

[beltanefauve]

72. Carly Fiorina

Is also female, I mean, if that's your only criteria.

[hueymahl]

114. LOL - Checkmate!

[BlueCaliDem]

160. Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until the mid-1990's.

Yet you'd happily vote for her over Hillary Clinton who has been a lifelong Democrat. Odd.

[Fawke Em]

172. Because Warren acts like a Democrat, now, despite her party

affiliation, then.

On economic and foreign policy matters, HRC doesn't always bat 1,000.

[BlueCaliDem]

177. Just wanted to point out the double standard.

Hillary Clinton is excoriated for everything her husband got wrong during his administration and everything else under sun even to this day, but those same people have no problem trying to push Elizabeth Warren for Democratic President, absolutely forgiving her for coming so late to her senses.

Just seems disingenuous and using a double standard.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

89. Yes, it's time. But it must be the RIGHT WOMAN. n/t

[FlatBaroque]

157. My Dear CliforniaPeggy

I totally agree. I would vote for Nancy Kaptur, Barbara Lee, or Liz Warren anyday. My comment to which you replied was

[hifiguy]

175. Yep. Were Senator Warren running instead of Bernie

I would support her every bit as wholeheartedly as I do him. It's the person and their policies that count.

[SMC22307]

99. Michelle Bachman? Sarah Palin? Carly Fiorina? Um, no.

I vote based on ideas/policies, not gender.

[arcane1]

142. You vote based on the candidate's genitals?

That's fucked up.

[leftofcool]

20. You are right...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[SoapBox]

21. I'm sick and tired of all of the money grubbing.

Where's that pic of her and the criminal Bankster, Jamie Dimon...that crook should be in jail.

Enough is enough.

[hifiguy]

22. The facts are what they are.

And then there's her good friend, War Criminal Henry Kissinger, responsible for millions of deaths but a "defender of human rights" according to HRH



The people with whom you choose to associate speaks volumes about your character or lack thereof.

[lewebley3]

30. She associates with poor children too: and Women etc etc.

Hillary is her own person: She is good to everyone

[L0oniX]

84. U forgot one...

[hifiguy]

117. Yeah, I did. And Murdoch, too.

Barf.

[BeanMusical]

122. OMFG! She's also buddy-buddy with the misogynist who is endorsed by David Duke!

[lewebley3]

29. By this post FDR and Kennedy should have never been President

Hillary, has worked he way up from a small state,
and has been a loyal Dem and a loyal American to
the people of America

[The Traveler]

42. I don't understand your reasoning

The issue is not wealth, nor connections to wealth, but rather a record of using political influence to accumulate wealth, and wealth to accumulate political influence.

Hillary Clinton is by no means exceptional in her development and use of these kinds of relationships. I firmly believe part of the problem is that, especially in the last 40 years, this has become an increasingly overt standard operating procedure among our political leaders. It is part of business as normal, the status quo.

And the status quo has lead us to a condition in which the US functions identically to an oligarchy. If THAT is OK with you, then you are supporting an excellent candidate. Ms. Clinton is definitely one of the better sort. I think both Clintons have struggled hard over the years to balance the interests of the financial elites and those of the common people. I think they have done much to mitigate the effects of neoliberalism on the common people of this country. One has to look hard to find folk with a better record of supporting basic civil rights ... like women's rights. I could go on for thousands of words about the virtues of both Clintons.

But they are part of and facilitators of the status quo. And this status quo is destroying our people, ravaging our environment, and producing a truly frightening concentration of power and wealth in ever fewer hands.

Consequently, I prefer Sanders (since Warren won't run). However, not being an idiot, I will crawl across broken glass if must needs be to vote for Ms. Hillary Clinton ... presuming she wins the nomination. I just won't be disappointed if she winds up doing little to reign in the power of the oligarchy. That would be a difficult task for anyone ... and I just don't believe she regards that as important.

Trav

[DirkGently]

41. Yes. Wall Street ties are an issue for Hillary.

This is to me the heart of good - faith worries about the Clintons, stretching back to Bill's administration.

The financial firms and banks want things. Things they should not have. Things like continuing freedom to create speculative bubbles that enrich a few at the expense of many. Things like our Social Security program.

The Clintons -- and they ARE the same in this area -- have long believed Wall Street has our best interests at heart, and that we all gain by deregulating and letting them run wild. I do not think this is evil on their part, but delusion. Delusion that comes with buckets of helpful cash and support.

It is wrong-headed thinking that at bottom is no different or better than "trickle down economics," and I see no signs Hillary has moved away from it.

[BeanMusical]

45. She's quite the hypocrite.

"We need to get this corporate and unchecked money out of politics."

-Hillary Clinton

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/why-hillary-flip-flopped-big-money-politics-n355276

[NorthCarolina]

115. She probably didn't finish her sentence....

We need to get this corporate and unchecked money out of politics...and into my foundation bank account ASAP!

[TBF]

65. The question is not whether she is 1% -

but what she is willing to do for working people. Marx was poor, Engels was rich. Neither of them was willing to work with the Bankers. Pretty simple.

[MaggieD]

67. All these smears on HRC and yet they all end in....

Conjecture and innuendo. Enough beating around the bush - what payoff have they gotten in return for giving her 3.7% of her total campaign contributions over her life as a candidate?

Surely there must be SOMETHING, right? You guys just always forget to include it in these posts for some odd reason.

[Ed Suspicious]

73. They seek another friendly voice in the whitehouse. A president who won't push just too damned hard

to put the brakes on financial recklessness that typifies today's banking M/O.

[MaggieD]

91. So you got nothing

What did Obama do for them?

[MoveIt]

121. Looked forward, not backward

Bailed out the too big to fail institutions, and failed to prosecute anyone.

[MaggieD]

123. Actually Bush bailed them out

But hey, don't let facts get in the way.

So, you've dug deep, and you can't find anything Hillary did as payback to banks for their minuscule 3.7% of her lifetime contributions from people working in that industry?

Nothing. Right?

One thing you have to admit - Bernie is cheaper. The NRA spent only $18k helping him get elected and he turned right around and voted against the Brady bill when he got in office. Money well spent on the NRA's part, wouldn't you say?

[MoveIt]

124. How many were arrested / prosecuted ?

And i'm ignoring your bullshit ZOMG BERNIE LUVS GUNS crap because its a fucking lie and you know it.

[MaggieD]

127. Arrested for what?

Sadly everything they did was legal at the time. That's the legacy of Bush. Thanks, Nader, and left wing extremists.

[MoveIt]

128. Gotcha, it's all good, I was clearly in error with my non-neo-liberal thinking

Thanks for helping a fellow democrat out with the proper revisions to recent historical events.

[MaggieD]

130. You can't write a law and retroactively charge someone

Is it Obama's fault?

[leftofcool]

111. They always tend to leave out things don't they.

[kjones]

162. I''ve gotten to a similar point

All this innuendo stuff is obnoxious. I'm getting really tired of
the worn out "positive campaign" meme when there seems to
be a very negative, passive aggressive streak through so
many of these supporters.

If they have a revelation to share...something to say, they
should just say it. I mean, I thought honesty and conviction
were the focal points of their campaign.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. But..but..She's a Capitalist while evil Bernie is a (gasp!) Socialist!

[BeanMusical]

129. In their little minds it's the same as being a Stalinist.

[Babel_17]

74. Depends on how you look at it

One could see these special interests as having a history of getting no return on their donations. They do it decade after decade, century after century, on a wing and a prayer that some day a politician will remember them favorably and reward them with some favors.

Or maybe it's instead a case of brave politicians shaking down these criminal interests and forcing them to subsidize our free and fair electoral system. In exchange for their money, the special interests are allowed to scurry away to their corners and not have to endure the withering gaze of the public as their misdeeds are listed publicly.

Or I guess it could be what you say. It's just one of those known unknowables, let's move on to a real issue, shall we?

[snagglepuss]

76. You are a terrific writer. Your passion makes what is often dull, fascinating.

Very illuminating. Thanks.

[Bonobo]

78. That's very nice of you to say! nt

[rhett o rick]

77. She is part of the problem. The Princeton Study stated that we no longer live in a democracy but an

oligarchy. H. Clinton is part of that oligarchy. She may honestly feel sorry for the poor but she won't get her friends to pay their share. Her solutions involve the middle class paying the bill and not the wealthy.

[L0oniX]

80. So far it's the little people sending money in for Bernie. Who's giving money to Hillary?

Best question is why doesn't that bother people. It means that much to some to win that the money could come from Al Capone's vault and it wouldn't bother the conscience. You know Bernie would select a SCOTUSJ that would be against big money in politics so don't give me that bullshit about how we need Hillary because of SCOTUS. Thinking that Bernie would lose the GE against Trump? Wow ...Bernie for the little people and the rich arrogant narcissist Trump taking a dump on everyone not white ...and some Dems really think he has a chance to win? Wow.

[DhhD]

110. The part of the campaign to come is the tie to dark money by any and all candidates. Where

the family or candidates fortune came from is a part of the revolving door thinking, just as Citizens United is the revolving door of money.

[L0oniX]

191. +1

[senz]

86. Thanks for this, Bonobo.

Don't know if anyone's mentioned that Chelsea Clinton's first job after graduating from Stanford was with a hedge fund. I mean, Chelsea could have chosen among so many fields. Daughter of a president, plenty of money, famous name, the world was her oyster. A hedge fund? Criminy, how did she end up at a place like that? And then she married a hedge fund manager! I thought people like the Clintons were into public service -- like the Kennedys, the Carters.

But then I remember that Hillary, while first lady of Arkansas, took a position on the board of directors of Walmart.

And then all the things revealed in this thread and elsewhere. It's all about money. It's all about selling one's soul to the highest bidder.

I admit: I don't understand people like that. She might as well be an oligarch.

And I wonder, seriously wonder, whom would she nominate to the Supreme Court? Isn't this the reason we're supposed to prefer Hillary for president?

[Bonobo]

92. That was beautiful and a good chance to mention noblesse oblige

That is also a concept that FDR felt deeply that would and is not felt today.

[senz]

93. Exactly. I was avoiding that phrase, but the first 4 letters spell "noble"

which is a human quality available to anyone secure enough to put their base desires aside and own and live by it. It is so sad that the Clintons can't do it. Something went terribly wrong for them.

But Bernie has it and lives it. He is a deeply noble human being.

Thanks so much for fighting for Bernie and what he represents. I admire your forthright courage.

[hifiguy]

120. Old Joe Kennedy pounded into all his kids

the notion that much was expected from those to whom much had been given. Public service rather than personal financial advancement was a given and expected.

Nothing needs to be said about Jimmy Carter - the whole of his life speaks eloquently for itself.

No Clinton has any core principle other than personal gain by whatever means are available. The first and only question is "What's in it for me?"

[senz]

125. In that respect, she is far more Republican than Democrat.

I wonder if this ever makes Democratic Party officials squirm?

[SusanaMontana41]

107. She IS directly responsible. Totally correct.

What a great post! You connected a lot of dots. Hillary knows exactly what she's doing. Every move is calculated.

She's also too smart to play dumb about sending official emails through private servers.

Why so secretive? What is she hiding?

Having to ask those questions is distressing.

[raouldukelives]

113. Thanks to the daily efforts of corporate investors.

We live with the most democracy, freedom, education, health care, climate, wildlife and future they will allow us to have.

Thanks to Citizens United. The vote cast at the ballot box speaks far fainter than the vote cast with each dollar in Wall St.

There are no liberals in Wall St. I'm sure some think they are but when you say you care about the environment, about wildlife, about lives and then turn around and support the people and institutions leading the attacks against them one realizes they are a most terrible joke.

[hollowdweller]

116. I think Hillary's strategy is she will ask her friends in the ruling elite to pay people more

I think she also wants them to chip in more and maybe increase the private version of the social safety net more by making the gov't give them tax breaks and more money for doing it.

This may be a more successful strategy as far as getting anything going than trying to get it thru the legislature.

Since she is friends with so much of the rich and powerful she will ask them to trickle down more to us poor folks rather than legislate expansion of SS, min wage.

Rather than expand financial regulation she will simply ask them to be more ethical and careful with their investing and maybe will even give them some financial tax breaks or other incentives to do the right thing.

I think Bernie's ide is to do it legislatively rather than asking nicely. That is why Clinton is careful not to offend the rich and powerful in any of her statements, because she wants them to do it because it's the right thing to do.

[BeanMusical]

136. Nice fairytale. Or did you forget the :sarcasm: thingy?

If you really believe that I have a couple of bridges to sell you at very low prices.

[arcane1]

149. You cannot possibly be serious n/t

[hifiguy]

155. Wait, you're SERIOUS?

[Romulox]

147. THIS is the reason for the bizarre attempt to paint Economic Justice as "racist". nt

[FlatBaroque]

159. Textbook Rove

Attack the opponent's strength.

[hifiguy]

176. It's as old as the hills

or at least the 1968 Nixon campaign. Ailes (who was Nixon's media guy in '68), Atwater, Rove, an unbroken line of lying scumbags.

[Puzzledtraveller]

178. HC and many republican candidates

have already been paid for future services rendered as a POTUS. They hedge their bets , some more than others and I think HC is their must win candidate. It's obvious to me.

[sabrina 1]

180. I don't think those in power understand how ANGRY the people are over the way our government has

been taken over by these wealthy, power hungry people who do not care one bit about the people, who BUY our government for their own best interests.

They seem to think they fooled us and we are still unaware of how the whole rotten system works.

They are so wrong, as OWS should have told them, and as the numbers of people flocking to Bernie Sanders' campaign demonstrate, and as he says, enough is enough. Enough of this cozy little system they've set up for themselves. The rigged system needs to be unrigged.

Thanks Bonobo for telling the truth. Some people won't like it, but it is what it is.

I am glad we have a choice this time, otherwise a whole lot more people might have just opted out of the whole thing.

[Garrett78]

193. Hillary's Top 15 Career Donors

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/01/1417297/-Reality-Check-Liberal-Hillary-Clinton-s-Top-15-Career-Donors

And that is who, more than anyone else, she will be beholden to. And that's not Hillary bashing. That's just the reality of our political system.

[kristopher]

195. Great discussion.

[Bonobo]

196. I think so. It is a good portrait of who Hillary really is. nt