Why Hillary Clinton’s encounter with Black Lives Matter is her defining performance

[riversedge]

I agree with reader “mh12987” And I do wish the campaign would spread the word and talk it up more.


http://qz.com/484948/why-hillary-clintons-encounter-with-black-lives-matter-could-prove-to-be-crucial/

Why Hillary Clinton’s encounter with Black Lives Matter is her defining performance


?quality=80&strip=all&w=1600
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton greets audience members at a campaign launch party in Concord, New Hampshire June 15, 2015. (Reuters/Brian Snyder)

Written by Steve LeVine
5 hours ago

................ Below is an edited version (here’s the uncut video).

It’s an emotionally charged, 16-minute encounter, in which Clinton—put on the spot in a setting that could throw off even the most skilled politician—shines with both respectful empathy and surprisingly tough love.

“Your analysis is totally fair,” she says at one point. “It is historically fair, it’s psychologically fair, it’s economically fair.”.............................includes some writers comments.....


What the commentators and the BLM activists are missing is that they aren’t the important audience. It’s the Democratic base, especially ambivalent and indifferent liberals, who may get fired up by Clinton’s performance. As evidence of this potential, there are few more venues more reliably Democratic than the comments section of the New York Times, where most of 700-plus comments lauded Clinton’s response.

Here is reader “mh12987”: “For the love of God, please tell [Clinton’s] handlers to let us see more of this! This was a very difficult, potentially explosive conversation that she handled masterfully, showing her full range of skills—staunch advocate, patient listener, skilled politician and diplomat. Lesser candidates than she would have found themselves out of the race after an exchange like this, but she shines in it.”................

[leftofcool]

1. Hillary is ready to listen, ready to hear and ready to do something.

[riversedge]

4. That is why she so good at her town halls--she listens and learns.

[cali]

2. that's spin on steroids. wow. impressive.

[riversedge]

3. Feel the Estrogen

[Fawke Em]

86. I already have estrogen.

Her response was more testosterone.

[m-lekktor]

19. lol no shit.

I thought she did horribly talking down to them and aggressively jabbing her finger in the air at that one guy! jesus. i would change the subject real fast whenever this is brought up if i were one of her propagandists!

[peacebird]

51. Exactly, her body language & tone were condescending, annoyed, and contemptuous!

[cui bono]

62. Totally! I had only read the transcript until today and boy, the way she jabbed her hand

at them in front of their faces in that typical politician way. Yikes. If I were a Hillary supporter I would certainly not be posting links to this, let alone call it her defining moment.

Not to mention BLM was not impressed either. But then according to the OP "they aren’t the important audience."

[840high]

71. That head bobbing up and down - zero

interest in what the man was saying.

[AtomicKitten]

89. yep

[last1standing]

5. Without any snark, if she is our candidate, I hope to Hell she doesn't take that advice.

She was combative in a situation that called for diplomacy. It wasn't good.

And this is coming from a Bernie supporter who feels the exact same way about his Net Roots Nation performance. Our candidates all need to be much quicker in understanding why people are saying what they're saying instead of trying to talk over them or win the debate on points.

[jeff47]

6. Yes, when the other people in the discussion go away unhappy

it so masterfully demonstrates how that conversation was handled.

[arcane1]

7. I saw a different video. She was a condescending asshole n/t

[cali]

16. unbelievable spin. disgusting

[AtomicKitten]

34. the spin is dizzying

I say let 'em own it.

[oasis]

47. You must have seen a different video on a different planet.

Your description misses from here, to beyond the Milky Way.

[peacebird]

52. That's the video i saw also.... Condescending as all heck.

[John Poet]

69. NOW I know where her supporters get it from...

Condescension is their most annoying trait. (just in my opinion)

[Doctor_J]

8. I wish they'd stormed the stage and grabbed her microphone and called her supporters

white supremacists. That would have provided a nice glimpse of her outside of her media/security bubble. I can't believe how much fawning media coverage she gets.

[jfern]

60. BLM would have gotten swiftboated in oblivion

[cui bono]

9. So we're just skipping over the part where she blocked their attendance to the event?

And what of her saying she should just speak with white people then? And what of Jones thinking she just didn't get it?

That is certainly a defining moment, but if you think it was positive then you are really spinning away. I must have missed all the outrage here on DU about her lack of connection with BLM. Well, I have been busy with work...

Clinton, according to Jones, felt as if the system would be more easily changed structurally, through policy change–rather than tackling anti-blackness in white people through widespread cultural change. "She said that she didn't feel that you were going to be able to change hearts; that you can change systems, and then maybe you can change hearts.”

Jones and the rest of the group contended that it was the racism embedded in the policies that needed to be addressed as well. "She was not willing to concede that the inherent anti-blackness in the policies that were enacted to address problems is the cause of the problems we have today," Jones said. "She didn’t concede that."
...
When they arrived at today’s Clinton event, which focused on substance abuse and the heroin epidemic, after first sharing their talking points and questions exclusively with the New Republic, the activists found the entrances closed by U.S. Secret Service who said the venue was at capacity. Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors, who was in contact with the five activists, later told the New Republic that the activists were eventually let into an “overflow room.” Following the event, Clinton met with the group for about 15 minutes in a private meeting that they claim turned contentious at times, and featured Clinton giving unsolicited advice for the direction of the movement.
...
Asked whether Clinton actually proposed policies in the meeting, Jones said, "Not that I recall, no. In fact, I know that she didn’t because she was projecting that what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do is X,Y, and Z—to which we pushed back [to say] that it is not her place to tell the Black Lives Matter movement or black people what to do, and that the real work doesn’t lie in the victim-blaming that that implies. And that was a rift in the conversation."
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122524/blacklivesmatter-activists-disrupt-hillary-clinton-event

JULIUS JONES: Respectfully, the piece that’s most important—and I stand here in your space, and I say this as respectfully as I can—but if you don’t tell black people what we need to do, then we won’t tell you all what you need to do. Right?

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you; I’m just telling you to tell me.

JULIUS JONES: What I mean to say is that this is, and has always been, a white problem of violence. It’s not—there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, if that is the—

JULIUS JONES: And it’s a conversation and a pushback.

HILLARY CLINTON: OK, I understand. I understand what you’re saying.

JULIUS JONES: And then, we are also, respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah, well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem.

JULIUS JONES: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well—

JULIUS JONES: But like, what I’m saying is you—what you just said was a form of victim blaming. Right? You were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement—

HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah.

JULIUS JONES: —needs to do to change white hearts is to come up with a policy change.
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2015/8/19/watch_full_video_of_hillary_clintons

[riversedge]

20. give it up. The big room was full when they arrived but were allowed into the overflow room. No

doubt you know that already

And as far as you comment goes about "And what of her saying she should just speak with white people then?" You really need to read the piece in context instead of cherry picking a phase she said.

[cui bono]

43. The link you provided is an edited video and you are claiming I am the one cherry picking?

That's rich.

Julius Jones' own words showed he was not impressed with Clinton. That you would write an OP claiming this to be her defining performance as a Hillary supporter is beyond me. I would keep this from the public if I wanted people to be impressed with her.

[sibelian]

10. "very difficult, potentially explosive conversation"..... er.....

Why?

[leftofcool]

11. Perhaps you could ask the reader?

[sibelian]

25. Or, since you're clearly interested,

Perhaps you could tell me.

What's potentially explosive about it?

[leftofcool]

37. You would have to ask the reader since those are not my words.

BLM is dear to my heart for many reasons but I can not speak for this reader since I don't know her.

[sibelian]

38. Well, it sounds *deeply* suspect to *me*.

It's like she's saying black people are about to burst into mindless violence at any minute.

[leftofcool]

46. No, explosive in this context does not mean anything violent.

More like over excitement maybe.

[sibelian]

49. In light of recent conversations between you and I

I shall defer to your judgement, I guess. However, it brushed my whiskers...

[leftofcool]

50. LOL

[mcar]

12. K&R

[magical thyme]

13. oh, it's her defining moment all right.

[beam me up scottie]

15. They really enjoyed it on the Nightly Show:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251532853

[magical thyme]

21. omg that was funny...

I love when Carlos starts chugging the pepto bismol.

[beam me up scottie]

24. He's a recurring character.

He's getting so stressed out he reminds me of Beaker from the Muppets.

[cui bono]

56. LMAO!!!

That was hilarious! Thanks for the link.

[beam me up scottie]

58. Apparently not everyone considers it her defining moment.

Or maybe they do but for a different reason.

[Fawke Em]

87. It's not a "but!"

It's "sentence Twerking!"

[beam me up scottie]

88. Everyone should watch it. I still have it on my dvr - it's THAT funny.

[840high]

72. I had missed that. Thanks!

[beam me up scottie]

79. I literally lmao!

I love the Nightly Show, Larry Wilmore is really rocking it.

[leftofcool]

17. The members of BLM obviously disagree with you.

[magical thyme]

18. Two of the activists shared their disappointment with Clinton's response on CNN on Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/hillary-clinton-black-lives-matter-meeting/

"Her policy response -- if it's not addressing the anti-blackness inherent in some of the previous polices, we're just going to see that thread continue," Yancey said. "And that's what we're looking to hear. What's shifted? What's changed for Hillary Clinton that's going to make us believe that she's going to take this country in a different direction in terms of race?"

"The group also posted a series of tweets Monday night that cast doubt on Clinton's answers."

BlackLivesMatterBOS ?@BLM_Boston

#HollupHillary: HRC worked to reduce federal assistance to women & children living in poverty. pic.twitter.com/KIDEaizqyx

Follow

BlackLivesMatterBOS ?@BLM_Boston

HRC lobbied to expand drug war & mass incarceration in ways that still impact black & brown ppl today. #HollupHillary pic.twitter.com/vOoLs3d7mD
9:41 PM - 17 Aug 2015


BlackLivesMatterBOS ?@BLM_Boston

As of today, the platform on her website still calls for "restoring balance” to the CJ system. #HollupHillary pic.twitter.com/fIDoo5yQQN

Follow

BlackLivesMatterBOS ?@BLM_Boston

Hillary has also repeatedly called for more police & tougher prison sentences. #HollupHillary http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/05/hillary-clinton-response-eric-garner#.v4oydm:mMdg … pic.twitter.com/FVuUwjw0iD
9:39 PM - 17 Aug 2015


(more at the above link)

[leftofcool]

22. Only two?

[sibelian]

26. Well, you'd better find more than two that *are* impressed, then, hadn't you?

Off you go.

[leftofcool]

28. Hillary is doing just fine with BLM.

You can always ask about it in the AA forum. But, ask nicely.

[sibelian]

32. What do you mean "ask nicely?"

Are you supposing that if I did go to the AA forum I'd barge in and make a nuisance of myself?

[beam me up scottie]

33. Not according to this chart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251540029

[cui bono]

44. Julius Jones was not impressed.

[oasis]

53. Hill did well with the time she had. No, she didn't present Jones with a

long range, comprehensive plan all laid out with a pretty little bow on top. She seemed to be asking BLM for an outline of a plan her administration could implement.

[cui bono]

54. Not according to BLM. Jones said she was victim blaiming and trying to tell BLM what they should do.

[oasis]

57. "Trying to tell BLM what they should do" ??

Yes, what they should do, like "present YOUR plan to me " maybe? It's BLM's movement what's their plan?

Seems to be a fair enough request.

[cui bono]

59. Julius Jones, who interviewed her, said that. He told her what she was doing was victim blaming.

I'm not making it up. It was not at all how you describe, not according to Jones himself.

And did you see the way she was using that "politician" hand move and jabbing the air right in front of the activists' faces? Who does that?

I don't know how anyone can think she did well no matter how little time she had. Not little enough for that handler that tried to end the whole thing early, right at a critical point.

[oasis]

63. "Victim blaming" according to Jones.

I've seen the video half dozen times. If Jones chooses to characterize it in that way, he has his reasons for doing so.

As for the time Hillary had with them, it was sufficient to let BLM know, she knows they have an important issue that will be addressed.

[cui bono]

64. "According to Jones". Yes, according to Jones, who she was addressing and who was there

representing BLM. So his opinion doesn't matter? Do you agree with the OP then, that "What the commentators and the BLM activists are missing is that they aren’t the important audience"?

So Hillary gets a pass in your book, even though BLM was not impressed. Okay.

[oasis]

65. No need to "give Hillary a pass". As I stated

before Hillary did well. Jones, you, the OP and I are all entitled to our opinions. Jones says he wasn't impressed. I was. Others were. A lot of Democrats are included in "others".

[cui bono]

78. So the opinion of the BLM activists who the meeting was with and for doesn't matter?

Because you and the OP think it went well? It's just a matter of opinion and you think that BLM s wrong on this?

So I guess you do agree with the OP that they weren't the important audience for that meeting. Interesting. Gotta love the general hypocrisy on this board. I'm not saying you personally did it, but boy, the outrage over Bernie and BLM was furious and I don't see any of those same people coming in here and taking up their cause now that it's Hillary screwing up.

[oasis]

81. I never stated that, however

to be clear, the OP is correct in his assessment of the meeting. Hillary's interaction with Jones was impressive to many Democrats, and that's what really counts.

For the record, I was very harsh with my criticism of BLM actions at both Bernie events. So don't lump me in with those who you believe to be hypocrites on that subject.

[cui bono]

91. Okay, well I disagree with how she came across.

I appreciate you not being part of the partisan brigade on the BLM issue. That's why I said I didn't know if you were part of that or not, I didn't want to implicate you without knowing.

And I'm sorry if I came off a bit strong with you, after months of people trying to smear Sanders and his supporters then not seeing anything at all regarding Clinton on this I am left being a bit defensive on this matter. I appreciate your gracious attitude.

[oasis]

97. We're good. (eom)

[cui bono]

100. Cool.

[frylock]

94. Well, sure, seems to be a fair enough request NOW..

when just a few short weeks ago that approach was referred to as lecturing and whitesplaining by some supporters of one particular candidate.

[magical thyme]

31. the 2 that talked to CNN, and the rest on twitter. nt

[cui bono]

45. And one who interviewed her!

[frylock]

92. Maybe you can find the opinion of the two from Seattle that interrupted Sen Sanders..

as they seem more representative of the movement, insofar as Team Clinton sees it.

[840high]

73. You speak for them?

[hootinholler]

14. MmmHmmm

That encounter does not define her, but it does add to the definition.

[ismnotwasm]

23. K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

27. Agree 100%!

Hillary did a FANTASTIC job of 'splaining to black people what they need to do

Regards,

TWM

[SamKnause]

29. I hope it is because she failed miserably.

She reminded me of a bobble head toy that kept stuttering um

um over and over again.

She was aggressive.

She pointed her fingers at the man she was addressing.

She had no answer for the problems her husband caused, with her full support.

She expected the movement to come up with the answers.

And the statement "I will only talk to white people" was icing on the cake.

[HassleCat]

30. Just like Sanders and O'Malley

The representatives of BLM came away not satisfied, because they don't understand politicians. Congress people and presidents and cabinet officials deal with issues in programmatic terms. "Identify a problem and I'll help you figure out how government can address it." The people from BLM, at least so far, are saying we need a new way of doing things. Well, government does not do encounter groups; it does programs. Sure, the president can do FDR style fireside chats and that sort of thing, but programs are what government does best. When Clinton and Sanders and O'Malley tell BLM about the specific things they would like to do, and BLM responds by saying it's wrong, BLM is just denying why we have a government. Each of the candidates have given perfectly good answers, and BLM would understand that if they knew the purpose of government.

That said, there is some interesting territory yet to be explored, particularly when it comes to government's ability to influence other institutions, such as state and local law enforcement agencies, colleges and universities, health care providers, and so on. But that would involve a bigger, more "oppressive" federal government, with less local control. And this may be exactly what we need, but it's a tough sell, and BLM needs to be more specific when it approaches the candidates, and more sympathetic to what's possible.

[SMC22307]

35. "...especially ambivalent and indifferent liberals..."

Jesus, people are just making up shit now.

[beam me up scottie]

36. Word.

Salad.

[SMC22307]

41. I'm blinded by the lily-whiteness of their About page.

http://qz.com/about/

Just a couple of POC. Of course, top tier schools. Elite, indeed!

Quartz is a digitally native news outlet, born in 2012, for business people in the new global economy. We publish bracingly creative and intelligent journalism with a broad worldview, built primarily for the devices closest at hand: tablets and mobile phones.

"Bracingly creative"...

[beam me up scottie]

42. Well la dee freakin da!

Isn't that special?

Sounds like it's full of snowflakes.

[Luminous Animal]

39. Apparently the writer did not read or listen to any of the Black Lives Matter Boston

(and other Black Lives Matter activists). In every interview and on their twitter feed, they were not impressed nor were they pleased with her responses. Their conclusion? She is a typical white liberal and evaded answering their questions and concerns. The writer, apparently, IS NOT LISTENING! And is as much tone-deaf to the movement as people accuse some Sanders supporters as being.

[cui bono]

61. "What the commentators and the BLM activists are missing is that they aren’t the important audience"

That's from the OP.

So I guess it doesn't matter what BLM thinks of the encounter as long as HRC fans are happy with it.

[Luminous Animal]

66. Suddenly, not listening to Black Lives Matter is a good thing when Hillary does it.

[cui bono]

77. That seems to be what someone else is telling me in this thread.

All of a sudden everyone is entitled to their own opinion about how things went, doesn't matter how the actual BLM activists think it went.

[djean111]

40. My grandson is partially deaf, has hearing aids, is great at lip reading and reading body language.

He is 20, been partially deaf since he was a baby.
He asked me to play the video for him.
He said it looks to him like she hated even having to talk to people who questioned her, and she used her hands to try and intimidate.

[6chars]

68. just looked like a serious conversation to me

and sounded like one .

[djean111]

80. I am just giving the opinion of someone who depends on reading body language to

navigate through the day. He is not the only person to have this opinion. But - everyone does get to have their own opinion, right? It is not like this one interaction is the thing everyone hangs their support on. Grandson is a Bernie supporter because of issues.

[cui bono]

48. Wow! Where's the outrage over this statement of yours:

What the commentators and the BLM activists are missing is that they aren’t the important audience.

So Hillary meets with BLM over the issue of the killings of black people but they are not the important audience???



Love how this gets a pass but even false memes about Bernie generate total outrage. Wonder why that could be? Hm...

[Thinkingabout]

55. Hillary handled the meeting quiet well, the representive did an excellent job of presenting his view

And Hillary gave excellent advice. She could speak from a position of advocating for Civil Rights and knowing how the Civil Rights movement history.

[oasis]

74. Yes, I totally agree. Hillary was receptive but firm.

On this important issue, she wasn't about to to get caught up in a war of words which would have lead to zero progress.

[ibegurpard]

67. Dear God!

She had some valid things to say but it was most certainly NOT masterful. Some of it was positively cringeworthy. Like most of us she has a lot to learn about listening before trying to explain.

[whatchamacallit]

70. Totally delusional

[delrem]

75. I don't think Black Lives Matter should be used as a political football.

I think the issue and movement ought to go and does go above and beyond D vs R, and intra-D or intra-R politics.

How could one extremely short and orchestrated interview with people representing #blacklivesmatter or any political movement be generally accepted as being the "defining performance" for any politician? That doesn't even make sense.

Isn't a big problem of all popular movements, however just and important the cause, the one of holding politicians and representatives accountable? If that's so, then all politicians ought to be held accountable - and a bit of common sense should replace gushing idolatry.

[dreamnightwind]

76. You'd better hope it's not her defining performance - eom

[Romulox]

82. Hillary's BLM encounter will likely be marked as the beginning of the end for her campaign.

She's imploding.

[leftofcool]

93. At least she didn't walk off the stage in a huff!

She sat down, talked, said what she could and could not do and now they are praising her for it.

[frylock]

95. Who is praising her for it? The HRC group?

[oasis]

98. Go ahead and mark it. You can always recycle it after Hillary's 1st term.

[hollowdweller]

83. I see two tracks

One where GOP shills try to use the BLM issue as a way to get black voters not to vote democrat or stay home from the polls.

Two where they try to perpetuate the name calling and who is more sympathetic to the BLM cause between the Hillary and Bernie supporters to try to make the primary disagreements so toxic that supporters of one or the other candidate stay home from the polls in the general.

So when I see these threads and people sort of egging them on it's always hard for me to figure. Is the egging coming from true democrats who just feel strongly about the issue?? Or is this whole thing coming from Republican paid bloggers who are working another angle to keep people away from the polls?

Personally I like Sanders record and will vote for him in the primaries at this point. But I'd have no problem voting for Hillary either if she won so at least with me IT'S NOT WORKING!

[Motown_Johnny]

84. She will define herself again next week.. and again the next... and again...

So even if this insane line of thought was correct, it wouldn't matter for very long.

[Fawke Em]

85. If they mean "defining" her as glib and flippant, then I agree.

But that's not what this says.

It's no secret she's not my favorite candidate in the Democratic primary - nor my second or even third - and this is why: the spin. I watched her meet with BLM and she sounded condescending and crass to me. That it's being spun as some watershed moment is gross.

She also was never "put on the spot." They expected them and should have rehearsed. And, if her snarkiness was rehearsed in, then it's no wonder her poll numbers keep dropping while her negatives are increasing: her campaign doesn't know how to handle their candidate.

[MisterP]

90. c'mon, DU, I expect 50 OPs on "Clinton's POC problem," "Clinton fans' candidate-fixated bubble,"

and 100 OPs on this showcase example of white fragility and white tears

chop-chop!

[cui bono]

96. Funny how that hasn't happened.

I guess even though BLM is an extremely important and urgent issue, supporting Clinton is just more so for some.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. It was bad and painful to watch, but I suppose it could conceivably could have been even worse.

Is that what you mean by "defining performance"?