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RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:16 PM Aug 2015

The VERY serious challenges of the Sanders candidacy.

If I could waive a magic wand and have Bernie be president, I would. While I do have some concerns about some of his ideas, I favor the large majority of what he stands for. He is also honest, UNcorrupted, and STRONG in his positions, rhetoric, and how he handles the Republicans and the corporate media. We NEED STRENGTH. He is also absolutely right about needing a new political MOVEMENT to take the country back from the corporatists. But here are the problems, and they are VERY serious.

1) He must have a more complete ECONOMIC PLAN. He is mainly talking to the bottom right now, not the broad middle class who he MUST have aboard. A government infrastructure plan and raising the minimum wage is NOT an economic plan and that alone will fail. He MUST also talk about growing small and medium sized PRIVATE business where most Americans work. He is FAILING bigtime on this point. We NEVER win just by talking to the bottom. Most people are NOT on Medicaid and the minimum wage. We must also talk to the middle class and show them what they will get from us.

2) He will be blasted night and day with the "socialist socialist socialist" meme making him look WAY out of the mainstream.

3) He will also be blasted with the "taxes taxes taxes" meme as he is promising huge expansions of government programs. So he needs to do a MUCH better job in his stump speech explaining how he is going to pay for all these programs. He may have plans to pay for it, but he isn't explaining it.

4) HOW is he going to increase wages in the PRIVATE economy? HOW is he going to reduce the deficit and debt and middle class tax burdens? He MUST explain it. Right now he just sounds like "Santa Claus".
He has got to CLEARLY show how he is going to do all this.

5) If he was to get nominated, he MUST brutally ATTACK his Republican opponent in tv ads. He says he won't run negative ads. Well he better change that tune or will get slaughtered.

So there it is. He is doing some good things, and I like him a lot. But he better understand that those coming to his rallies right now are ALREADY very progressive. He is energizing that base. But to win nationally, he MUST excite people well outside his natural base. He isn't doing that yet. And items above are things he will have to do to do that and show he isn't the fringe candidate his opponents are saying he is.

I welcome serious, thoughtful replies. Thanks

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
1. I agree with you on 1,2 3 and 5.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:20 PM
Aug 2015

On issue #4, you will probably see more explanations during the debates.

GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
4. Interesting thoughts
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:34 PM
Aug 2015

You're right on private sector jobs. The TPP talk is not impressive. TPP is irrelevant....the jobs will leave with or without it. He needs to pivot to what you suggested...how do we keep the higher paying jobs here.

One suggestion I have is proposing to get rid of these tax tricks corporations use here. Eliminate a company's ability to transfer technology developed here to an offshore tax haven for tax purposes. They move the technology offshore, then charge a licensing fee to the US company for the use of the technology, eliminating tax liabilities. A good policy on "tax tricks" would be helpful. I can get more specific if you like, but it's Sunday and I want to get outside.

Another "position" that could be taken is potentially breaking up these massive corporations. Would not take an act of Congress. There are more than a few companies bigger than AT&T was when it was broken up in the 1970's. Larger in the name of globalization has added nothing. Breaking them up should create opportunities for smaller businesses to thrive.

In summary, build infrastructure, raise minimum wage, break up the big companies to help smaller guys compete, eliminate bullshit tax loopholes, seems more comprehensive...maybe I missed more opportunities, others can jump in.

On attack ads, as long as he attacks the policies, he will be OK staying away from attacking the man...or woman if it's Fiorina.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
6. More condescending advice from a Hillary supporter. What a surprise.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:52 PM
Aug 2015

You have been extolling Hillary and been telling us why Bernie cannot win for a while now. As a member of what you call the Mega-Left, I just want to say that this opener - "If I could waive a magic wand and have Bernie be president, I would." - is a refreshing change from "I am a huge Bernie supporter, BUT". Methinks you would actually love to wave a magic wand and make Bernie disappear.

"Anyone who would vote against Hillary or sit home if and when she's nominated might as well hold up a neon sign saying, "I'm working to help the Republican nominee win."

It almost sounds like you were truly thinking that those who like Warren would have just supported Hillary when Warren said she was not running. Nope.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
10. Lots of rhetoric but ZERO thoughtful analysis or argument.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:48 AM
Aug 2015

You FAIL to address my points.

You FAIL to present a thoughtful argument showing how Bernie can win NATIONALLY without a more comprehensive economic plan.



Please, I asked for THOUGHTFUL responses.

And yes, I do like Bernie one hell of a lot, but he has got to do MUCH more to WIN at the NATIONAL level in a GENERAL election.

Please, more thoughtful ANALYSIS and less emotion.

And YES, the mega-left has no more chance to win a GENERAL American election at the presidential level than does the mega-right. Can you argue otherwise with actual evidence?

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
7. I know what is with all of this crazy talk of getting the money from those who have and take in
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:57 PM
Aug 2015

almost all of it?!?

Where does he come off trying to protect all of our jobs when he needs to focus on making sure the highest pay jobs stay here, we can't have our upper class struggling to hold on like mere peons who should be embracing the race to the bottom and a future for their most fortunate as day laborers for our glorious corporations?!?

Where the Sam Hill is the focus on tax breaks and incentives for employers and the middle class?!?

The guy sounds like Santa Claus for poor and working people when it is a President's duty to be Saint Nick to the job creators?!?

How fringy and unserious can one get!

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
11. I am obviously talking about the MIDDLE CLASS, not the rich.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:52 AM
Aug 2015

Lots of emotion, very little thoughtful analysis. Experience proves time and again that if you only talk to the bottom and not the middle, you LOSE. MANY on the bottom do not even vote. Please, let's talk REALITY and EVIDENCE. He needs a better middle class economic message. How the hell do you win a GENERAL election running just on government programs? A public works programs in NOT a middle class economics plan. He has to talk MUCH more about his plan to expand wages through the expansion of small and medium sized business, the jobs that STAY here by the way. So please, less emotion and more thoughtful analysis and argument based on EVIDENCE.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
16. The "middle class" includes everyone full time at minimum wage to 400k now.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:02 PM
Aug 2015

The term has been rendered useless it has been "addressed" so much by politicians and the corporate media.

Who in the 70 to 80%ish are you talking about? 42% make less than $15 an hour and probably every quarter above captures more and more to the point that I'm confident a solid majority make less than 20.

 

short circuit

(145 posts)
8. *streeetttch* *ahem*
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:02 PM
Aug 2015

1) http://feelthebern.org/category/bernie-sanders-on-the-economy-and-jobs/
2) Cold War is over, socialism is pretty much mainstream. Don't like it? Get off our socialist roads then! More than 51% of the people don't give a shit about it.
3) http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-economic-inequality/#fixing-the-tax-code-for-citizens-corporations-and-banks
4) http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-education/
5) Why? Let them spend their wasteful dollars on TV ads. Social media is making it extremely effective to nullify stupid TV ads. How do you think Bernie's getting the crowds to show up? Certainly not by advertising, and Bernie's doing a great job neutralizing M$M. Hillary is too afraid of them because she has no ability to neutralize hostile press.


 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
9. He's already gone far beyond any other candidate in providing SPECIFIC DETAILS
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:34 PM
Aug 2015

of his ideas for America. the others all speak in generalities but offer no specifics. There is plenty of time for him to move to a more specific economic platform (although we pretty much know where he's at anyway). He's addressing exactly the folks he should be addressing at this stage of the game.

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
14. Here is the thing on number 5
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 08:43 AM
Aug 2015

People confuse themselves on this issue.

The honest truth is you can count on one hand the number of dems in dc who GO AFTER republicans more than bernie.

When bernie says he wont "attack" other candidates, hes talking about bullshit political negative "attacks."

So, you arent going to see these bizarre, menacing commercials saying his opposition hates america or something like that.

The only other dem who you see go after republicans more than him is grayson, but he just is matter of fact w it vs bombastic like grayson.

Seriously watch him speak, he CONSTANTLY says republicans are wrong.

He isnt going to do it much w hill, but if he gets the nomination there is NO doubt he will directly and relentlessly state how wrong the r nominee is, by name.

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
17. How do you create jobs while demonizing success?
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:18 PM
Aug 2015

Is there a salary threshold I can't pass before Bernie hates me?

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