Duers who support Bernie are probably not out of the mainstream of his supporters nationally

[cali]

Oh, we may be more into politics in general but we probably fit the profile demographically.

I'd wager a great deal that we care deeply about injustice perpetrated against minorities, that we care about institutional racism and women's issues, that we respect and honor groups and organizations working for social justice, and that is why I'm offended and, yes hurt by the characterization of Bernie's supporters that's become an ugly meme and a tool to tear down the candidate himself.

Let's examine these claims:

<snip>
They don’t care about liberal values or the fact that three women are murdered every day in this country by an “intimate” partner or that black people are being systemically murdered by the police. They are very busy pretending to care about Wall Street, while not seeing or admitting how keeping minorities down enables Wall Street’s abuses and power over D.C..

<snip>

First of all, that is the very definition of a broad brush attack. How can someone making that statement be considered by any decent, thinking person to be credible? If you claim to believe that, you are simply doing so to indirectly bash Bernie and to dishonestly attack his supporters.

To Ms Jones who penned this toxic crap: I am a woman. I am a survivor of a domestic abuse nightmare that I still close myself off from thinking about.

The biggest standing ovations Bernie receives, in rally after rally, from tens of thousands of supporters are for his remarks about racial justice and gender equality.

The above quoted paragraph is vile but Ms. Jones only doubles down with her grotesque claims with not one scrap of evidence.

All I can say to those here endorsing this scurrilous, pernicious crap, is if you really believe that about the majority of your fellow duers, why on earth are you here interacting with such hateful, bigoted scum, day in and day out? And if you're only agreeing with it and pushing this meme for political purposes? To me, that's even worse.

Here is the link to the full "editorial" by Ms. Jones. I don't have the stomach to parse anymore of it.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/08/22/ironic-hijacking-bernie-sanders-campaign-elitist-white-progressives.html

[quickesst]

1. My opinion

August 9, 2015
"All that I can say is I have known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I admire her. I respect her. I like her. She and I have very different points of view on a number of issues." Bernie Sanders

"Warmonger", "corporate shill&quot or worse), and I could go on. The fact is there are many here that do not support Bernie Sanders. They support a rather twisted ideology of what they believe Bernie Sanders should be, and even then it is a distant second to the hatred shown towards Hillary Clinton. It's obvious, and they own it.

[cali]

2. my opinion of your opinion is that you are not some all seeing clairvoyant

You can't read minds. I haven't seen one supporter of his state that their support for him stems from what you claim it does. You are simply mistaking correlation and causation.

I support Bernie because of his proposals and his governing philosophy. It has zip to do with my opinion of Clinton. That I don't think highly of her, simply isn't related to my support of him.

[boston bean]

3. phew!

Since your opinion of Clinton is irrelevant to your support for Bernie, does this mean we'll see less posts about Hillary's "corruption and dishonesty"?

[cali]

7. not if certain people keep posting despicable lying attacks on Bernie's supporters.

[seabeyond]

10. the continued nasty all the fuckin time. my Op full of it. catty and petty. articles

are being written about it and yet still the denying. people literally turning away form sanders because of. and, snaders refuse to take a single bit of it to heart. just continue on.

[cali]

13. your op was thoroughly nasty and less than honest

And oh my, I made a comment about salad dressing. You freaked.

[seabeyond]

15. listen to you. nasty i made a comment that i like democrats. horrible. !!!

[cali]

18. no. you nasty comments about Bernie and his supporters.

[seabeyond]

20. pointing out, starting OPs clinton should succumb to rw email smears rewarding their lies?

calling out posters telling democratic underground that sanders is our SAVIOR?

horrible, horrible shit. i hear ya....

[cali]

39. uh no. the sneering nasty crap calling Bernie a savior. the inference that

he has no business running in the party, and more.

[seabeyond]

44. quoting DU, hence my OP

[hedda_foil]

63. Please, seabeyond, individual supporters opinions do NOT represent DU as a whole.

Virtually all of the time, they don't even represent very many other supporters. The same is true of both candidates' supporters. To cherry pick among individual comments of many people , and insist that whatever you (or anyone) may resent the most is representative of a heterogeneous group of supporters of one or the other politician is disingenuous and unworthy of you as a respected, longtime DUer.

[seabeyond]

64. then why are you and others taking it so personally when a fellow duer, democrat, express ire that

we are being told the independent sanders is SAVING the dem party.

why is that a big deal for a democrat on du to express that YA.... i LIKE democrats and the democratic party.

[quickesst]

26. I'm glad...

...that you have an opinion. Like mine, it is not a declaration of being clairvoyant, nor of reading minds. It was an opinion, and I stand by it.

[rhett o rick]

8. Now wasn't that nice of Sen Sanders to be polite about his feeling about H. Clinton?

It shows class. I don't hate H. Clinton, but I do hate the culture of the Democratic Elite that have sold out to the billionaires.

Funny how H. Clinton supporters can rationalize how cool it is that Citizens United will allow Clinton to receive over a billion dollars to buy the White House. Seems a bit hypocritical to say that you don't approve of CU unless it helps your candidate.

It's time for a change from the Oligarchy run by the billionaires.

[MineralMan]

17. About those billions of dollars. It goes both ways.

The Republicans will spend at least as much. Most of it will go to massive TV ad campaigns. If the Democrats don't match that spending, they will lose. It is that simple. That's how elections are won these days. It's a pity, but it's not going to change before the 2016 election. Not a chance.

Whoever the candidates are, if they don't spend money on that extensive ad campaign, travel to campaign events and much, much more, the one who doesn't spend will not win. That much is certain. Whether it's Bernie, Hillary, O'Malley or Biden it's going to cost more than a billion dollars to win in 2016. Period.

[BeanMusical]

38. Were you ever against Citizens United?

Supporting Citizens United is supporting corruption. Period.

[MineralMan]

43. Yes. I think it was a horrible error by the SCOTUS.

We need a Democratic President to make the next few SCOTUS appointments. A Republican will destroy any chance of changing the makeup of the Supreme Court for decades. And that's a very real possibility.

The fact is, Citizens United reinforces my point in the OP. That's a sad fact, and there's not a thing that can be done about it before the 2016 election. Recognizing that something exists is not support for it.

Want to know what I support with regard to election funding? I support a taxation-funded campaign for all offices. Extreme limits on public donations and the end of the use of PACs altogether. That's what I support. That, however, is not how things are. So, I have to deal with the situation as it is and try to help keep it from getting even worse. That's why I vote Democratic. Always.

[BeanMusical]

45. I'm not sure if you always voted Democratic but

the rest of your post is interesting. BTW Bernie is doing pretty well without corporate money.

[MineralMan]

48. I have voted for the Democrats on every ballot I have ever marked.

Beginning in 1966, the first year I could vote. I have never once voted for any Republican.

Bernie Sanders is doing very well in two states, Iowa and New Hampshire. Nationally, not so well. Also not so well in other early primary states that have been polled. Both New Hampshire and Iowa respond well to a certain type of primary campaign. Both also have a small slate of delegates to the Democratic National Convention. Understanding how nominations actually are made is important. As the primary campaign expands into more and more states it will get increasingly expensive and more difficult to win through public appearances alone.

I'll say this: If Senator Sanders doesn't win Iowa or New Hampshire with a resounding victory, he will almost certainly have to withdraw from the primary race. His funding sources will dry up almost instantly. Imagine what it costs to campaign in California, for example, or New York. Public appearances won't get it in those states and many others that send very large delegations to the convention.

There are realities involved with national campaigns that can't be overcome without spending a lot of money. Truly there are.

[BeanMusical]

49. If you say it then it must be true.

[MineralMan]

51. If I say it, it IS true.

Whether you believe me or not is a matter of no consequence to me, frankly. I know my own voting history. You know almost nothing about me, really. Truly you do not.

[BeanMusical]

77. Whatever.

[rhett o rick]

69. Seems you are trying to rationalize Clinton accepting the billions that

Citizens United will now allow. I guess it's different when CU will favor your candidate. And the, "They are doing it so we have to do it." argument is a little hollow.

[BeanMusical]

78. Exactly.

[quickesst]

19. "Now wasn't that nice of Sen Sanders to be polite about his feeling about H. Clinton?"

It was. Too bad for many that showing that kind of class ends with him. I never include "all" when I refer to his supporters(?), but then, it's rare, and I mean rare to see a professed non-hater step up and call out those who obviously are.

[rhett o rick]

70. I think that some spend their time disparaging Sen Sanders supporters because they

can't discuss actual issues.

[RichVRichV]

76. And it's a shame many Hillary supporters can't show the same class she does.

The statement goes both ways.

[A Simple Game]

35. I support Bernie because of what he believes and his stand on the issues.

I am happy to finally have a candidate I can vote for instead of having to vote for someone not quite as bad as the other one. That hasn't happened very often lately.

I could however give you several reasons I support Bernie instead of Hillary but you already know what the differences are and apparently don't care, so I won't bother.

[PatrickforO]

4. I read this woman's article.

The comment I made on the other thread is that the article itself would be perfect to line birdcages with.

As to my opinion on the matter, I haven't noticed these horrible, awful, terrible 'libertarian liberal' supporters who spend their time attacking people they don't believe are 'pro Bernie' enough. This is the call, over and over, that we'd better 'rein in' supposedly out of control Bernie supporters, because (implied threat) they are turning off people who MIGHT support Bernie.

That's just ridiculous. I have noticed quite a few people who say that a) Sanders better represents the true Democratic ideal than other candidates (I'm one of those), and b) see clearly that this is an establishment attempt to divide and conquer a growing number of voices saying, as Bernie says, 'enough is enough!'

I was for Bernie the minute I heard him, looked at his voting record, and went on to his website and saw his stance on the issues.

I am still for Bernie.

I will be for Bernie over the next few months.

My family and I will caucus for Bernie when the time comes.

I will support Bernie during the general election.

I will vote for Bernie.

Finally, I will respond when Bernie uses the bully pulpit and calls for his supporters to pressure Congress in the right direction.

I do not apologize for taking this position, am not libertarian in any sense of the word, do not drive a Volvo (though if I did, so what?), and do not practice ad hominem attacks on Clinton or her supporters. This primary debate is about ISSUES that matter to me, and since Bernie is RIGHT on those issues, I'm supporting him now and in future.

[sabrina 1]

5. Scurrilous and pernicious is right. All they are doing is DRIVING people towards the ONLY candidate

with a record that is unparalleled among any ANY of the candidates in this race on Women's Rights, on Minority Rights, on our Foreign Policies, on Economic issues, especially where it concerns Minorities, see the Welfare Bill eg.

Because when people read that kind of trash, and associate it with status quo candidates, they tend to be disgusted and start looking elsewhere for representation.

Divide and Conquer isn't working this election cycle, though the effort to continue what suits those in power, the people fighting among themselves, especially Dems, seems more intense the less successful it is.

[George II]

6. This is obviously a response/retort to this thread posted a couple of hours ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=539502

Why don't you address your concerns in THAT thread instead of starting a borderline meta-discussion here?

You're insulting other (unnamed but to you not unknown) members on this site:

"those here endorsing this scurrilous, pernicious crap, is if you really believe that about the majority of your fellow duers, why on earth are you here interacting with such hateful, bigoted scum, day in and day out? And if you're only agreeing with it and pushing this meme for political purposes? To me, that's even worse."

[rhett o rick]

11. Funny how Clinton supporters are now ok with Citizens United that will allow billionaires to

buy the White House for Clinton. And the billionaires have billions to spend SwiftBoating Sanders. Sen Sanders, an honest politician, threatens the Oligarchy run Democratic Elites.

[George II]

23. Funny how you always say something totally off-topic to get your agenda into the discussion....

....and drop your little buzz words over and over again:

Swiftboating (huh?)
Oligarchy
Democratic Elites.

Oh well, have a great day.

[rhett o rick]

65. But you weren't involved in a discussion. You were chiding the OP poster about posting

in the wrong place. Do you support Citizens United now that it will benefit Clinton? But of course. Can you spell "situational ethics"?

[George II]

67. What does Citizens United have to do with this discussion. It isn't mentionen in the OP.

Your up to your old tricks again, asking an irrelevant question and answering it (incorrectly) yourself.

[rhett o rick]

72. Nothing in your post 6. applies to the discussion. You are telling the OP poster that

they "should" have posted some where else.

[George II]

74. Well, if you truly were concerned about my post (sans Citizens United, by the way), you would have..

....noticed that I pointed out the fact that the OP was directly in response to another post elsewhere on this site, and that as such is a borderline meta-post.

I didn't tell the OP poster that "they" (sic) should have posted it somewere else, I ASKED why it wasn't posted in the thread to which she was obviously responding.

So.................once again, even as you dig deeper you get further and further away from the subject.

[rhett o rick]

79. And we can't have "borderline meta-posts." Glad you are keeping your eyes open for

"borderline meta".

[BeanMusical]

28. +1

[seabeyond]

29. ALL the democrats oppose citizen, including obama from day one. ALL the democratic

candidates know they have to overturn citizen. the issue of citizen does not belong to sanders but ALL democrats.

[rhett o rick]

66. So are you saying you are opposed to Clinton accepting millions, maybe billions from the billionaire

I am guessing the Democratic Elite are ok with CU since it will benefit their candidate.

[seabeyond]

68. i am opposed to dems taking no money to prove a point to people like you and losing the elections.

because that would just be stupid.

oppose citizen, need a win to get into office to be able to overturn.

lose the elections and ensure nothing will change with citizen.

sanders is not stupid either. i expect him to get a war chest too. of all money. if he wins the primary. i have no problem with that. i still know he opposes, strongly, the money in elections and will fight against it. much better chance to beat this if he wins, rather than lose, right?

[rhett o rick]

71. The problem with CU is that it allows the billionaires to literally buy the election.

Sounds like you are ok with it if it favors your candidate. Sen Sanders said he won't accept money from the billionaires because it comes with strings. I wish all that call themselves Democrats had those ethics.

[Phlem]

31. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[BeanMusical]

33. Is that a brazillion?

[Phlem]

34. Totally. Bernie's the one and they have nothing but

whining, and name calling, etc. It's desperation at it's finest.

Go Bernie.

[BeanMusical]

40. +1000

[beam me up scottie]

41. RIGHTEOUS!

[stranger81]

58. The entire article, as well as the other thread,

are all about insulting Sanders supporters. I realize that's the trendy thing to do on DU, but complaining that Cali is being insulting is just complaining that your sacred ox should not be gored.

[cyberswede]

9. Yes, that article is a shit sandwich.

I support Sanders because his views are the closest to my own. And I like the way he addresses issues with direct language.

I don't hate Clinton, and the accusations in that article (and on DU) that Sanders supporters hate her seems wildly off the mark.

I've met Hillary; she's nice, friendly, and even warm. I just don't care for her positions on certain issues, and I'm frustrated by what I perceive as a lack of conviction on other issues ("tweaking" social security, for example). I'll vote for Clinton in the general, should she be the nominee (which I believe is likely), though.

In the meantime, I'm thrilled to finally be able to support someone in the primary with whom I agree on most issues.

[Uncle Joe]

12. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

[SoapBox]

14. ...her spew was a load of crap.

She has an agenda...and that's it.

Next!

[LovingA2andMI]

16. Can We Ask?

WTF Is "Sarah Jones" and WTHell do her opinion matter more than Millions of Bernie Sanders Supporters and Defenders?

Is this because Hillary Followers into the Abyss are getting worried she's (because she is) slipping in the polls again -- like a Deja Vu Moment in time to 2007 -- to a Man then named Barack Obama?

Yeah....that's probably it.

[SMC22307]

55. She's a trout-lipped selfie queen...

... and I really couldn't care less about her opinions of my "elitist white supremacist liberal" ass. They have nothing to attack Sanders with, so they go after his supporters. My question is: Who are all these dummies who allow a candidate's supporters to influence their votes?!

[LovingA2andMI]

56. Looks like a.....

Lot of Plastic Surgery there....

Okay, point made. This opinion by this person (pictured above) should count for nothing much at all.

[SMC22307]

60. Per her bio at the site...

she graduated Magna Cum Laude (Psych major and Latin minor), and enjoys ballet and "English" horseback riding. Sounds a wee bit elitist.

[LovingA2andMI]

62. Yeah, just a bit....

Thus an possibly "Elitist" calling Millions upon Millions of Bernie Supporters "The Elite". Sounds like a moment for the definition of Double Entendre:

"A double-entendre is a phrase or figure of speech that could have two meanings or that could be understood in two different ways."

[beam me up scottie]

21. Sarah the loon?

She reminds me of Nancy iwishiwassmarterpants what's her name...the one who wrote "Not good enough Bernie".

I refuse to take either of them seriously but good on you for fighting the meme.

[SMC22307]

57. "Nancy iwishiwassmarterpants"

Heh. Even better, she's a "former" conservative Christian fundie. Spare us the finger-wagging, Nance...

[beam me up scottie]

59. That one's certifiable.

She may not be a conservative Christain anymore but she's still a fundie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Well, at least she left out the "Reds", "Traitors", "Dirty Hippies", part.

Though she did hint at it.

[sarge43]

25. Don't forget " limousine liberal".

I'm surprised she didn't trot out that blast from the past.

If she used any broader brush, she could print the Wall of China in two or three strokes.

[frylock]

73. limousine liberals..

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. Completely agree, cali.

I read that mess, and I wouldn't even post in that bottom-feeder thread to counter it.

There's no legitimate criticism and no dirt on Sanders, and that's pissing off people like the author who are desperately looking for something to attack. That's about all that's going on with this.

Bernie's campaign hasn't been "hijacked" by anybody (what ludicrous nonsense!), and ranting on about the actions of "a few" is meaningless.

It's a big "so what".

Bernie's supporters aren't running for office, he is. And the idea that he can (or should) control what his supporters say online or anywhere else is just as delusional as the rest of the piece.

[Babel_17]

27. The Big Lie is useless unless ceaselessly repeated

My thoughts on that article can be found in this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251539203#post55

[Betty Karlson]

30. Love this: the mainstream voters refuses to be marginalised any longer

and the minorities are now in the mainstream. It's good to be gay these days: things are finally bending toward justice. God willing, it will be good to be a woman and / or a person of colour tomorrow. With the coalition Sanders is making, that could really start to happen.

[Phlem]

32. K&R!

[stupidicus]

36. let's face it -- they are the SAME people who defended BHO in 2012

(and throughout his admin I suspect) that called me and many others Romneyites, Paulbots, traitors to the party, etc.... as third wayers who hijacked the party in the last few decades, starting with the husband of she who's protected thusly. Of course they wanna focus on the real or imagined smears and pin that tail on real donkeys, but from my pov and that I'm sure of many, many others, they have about as much credibility/standing to do that as Rush Limbaugh recently did by accusing the left generally of being the hate talkers.

Like him as well, they see no disconnect even if they in the next breath, whine about something like the "lefty PC brigade" that would seem to undermine to the point of toppling, the prior hate talkers designation.

They think and "debate" like rightwingers, because they are rightwinger-lite, or prepared to be "satisfied" with whatever that produces.

Given that they are pretty much the SAME people as well, I'd still argue that they are likely the minority here as well as in the wider public arena. It's my hope that Bernie wakes the sleeping giant, wins, and reduces the loudmouthed/pottymouthed third wayers to the only argument they really have -- she woulda been better than her rightwing cousin.

They've nothing but the exploitation of fear -- that of rightwingnuttery in this case -- as cover for their being part of the problem as supporters of someone who'll far more likely than BS, pursue only partial solutions at best, or that butter the "bread" of those she's now getting some from... When for example, will all those Obamacare missed get their single-payer she doesn't support. Gee, how does that compare to Bernie's NRA thing in all the ways that matter?

How many lives would be saved or quality of life increased but won't be because of her opposition to that "socialism"? Why, I'd say far more than die/suffer annually for example, as a result of police abuse.

[MisterP]

37. they don't HAVE anything else: Mrs. "let's support proto-ISIS" and "let's give Dinant free rein"

and Mrs. "it's between a man and a woman" and "Tuff'n'Crime" and "Welfare Reform NOW!" has to keep up the illusion that the lefties have been weighing down the struggle of women and minorities since the era of the Snowball Earth or something

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

42. I dunno, sounds like she's talking about the Twitter trolls

who are professing their love for Sanders while viciously attacking high profile black activists on Twitter.

[GitRDun]

47. Here's a few quotes from the article that adequately describe some of what we see here on DU

zealous, rabid hate for former Secretary Hillary Clinton

personally attack anyone who they believe is not pro-Sanders enough. They label anything they read doesn’t fit their agenda as “Clinton propaganda,” and deem the author a “Clinton shill.”

rabidly attacking anyone who doesn’t get in line behind their every made up idea about him.

This is such an opportunity to elevate ideas, but it’s being destroyed by nasty, teabagger-type viciousness of the new Sanders “fans”.

Daily anti-Hillary screeds, accusing anyone who does not agree with them of being a Hillary supporter (as if that's bad), insults, many now missing voices due to jury hides.

I would say you're right, there are some here at DU who the article describes spot on.

[cali]

50. there's plenty of ugly shit from Clinton supporters.

Baloney to your second point. There are no attacks on people for not being pro-Sanders enough.

Same for your 3rd point.

contemptible and dishonest effort on your part to paint Sanders supporters as teenagers. That really is shameful. But its clear that you're willing to stoop to a very low level.

Ugh.

[GitRDun]

75. hahahahaha

cali's got her Bernie goggles on!

and thank you once again for those awesomely constructive sounds, "contemptible and dishonest", "shameful", and the ever popular "stoop to a very low level". Just another day in the life of a DU Bernie supporter spreading the Bernie cheer to anyone who states a point of view, using words from an article, that you happen to disagree with, even though it's your OP's link. A big thumbs up cali! Way to go!

And remember:

Bernie's nice and Bernie' fun!
He's got those losers on the run!
Hillary may have her broom..but Bernie's crowds they fill the room!

Yaaayyyy Bernie!!!!! Gooo Bernie!!!!! feel the Beeerrrnnn!!!!!

[BeanMusical]

80. What a... strange post.

[beam me up scottie]

82. *backs away slowly*

[BeanMusical]

83. Lol!

[GitRDun]

84. Yes, how strange n/t

[BeanMusical]

86. Very.

[stranger81]

52. Jones's claim that Sanders supporters are "smug"

and "self-righteous" is pure projection. The reason why a certain group of folks have so much fun continually castigating Sanders supporters as racist, "white supremacist" "faux progressives" is because it allows them to feel superior, to claim they are better or the only progressives, and to endlessly stroke each others' egos.

[LovingA2andMI]

53. This Point Is AWESOME....

Thank you for making it QUITE Well!!!

"The reason why a certain group of folks have so much fun continually castigating Sanders supporters as racist, "white supremacist" "faux progressives" is because it allows them to feel superior, to claim they are better or the only progressives, and to endlessly stroke each others' egos."

[Zorra]

54. Ms. Jones uses proven false information to try to paint Bernie supporters as racists:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=540038

[BeanMusical]

81. +1000

[beam me up scottie]

61. I love the backlash that thread caused.

Check out the greatest.

They poked the hornets nest one too many times.



Feelin the Bern.

[eridani]

85. Personally, I think Sanders DU supporters are more likely to be policy junkies

Most voters aren't and are responding to traits like bullshit-free consistency, saying what he really thinks, and the like.