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SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:04 PM Jul 2012

If the facts don't back up your position, create your own.

I don't know if anyone else heard this but on Saturday or Sunday morning on UP with Chris Hayes, Stephen Moore from the Wall Street Journals Editorial Board was challenged as to his claim that lowering the taxes on the rich will grow the economy. Chris stopped Stephen and said study after study shows taxes on the rich and economic growth move in the same direction. Stephen's reply was he and someone else did a study which showed the opposite.

So WSJ, if you don't like all the studies which have been done, do your own to get the results you want then your study becomes the Bible.

This reminds me of the climate change fight. Hundreds of studies show climate change is real, so get a pseudo-scienctist to do a study which says it is a hoax and that study triumphs all others.

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If the facts don't back up your position, create your own. (Original Post) SoutherDem Jul 2012 OP
A study reported to day that 25% of CEOs think illegal and/or unethical behavior is required HereSince1628 Jul 2012 #1
Thomas Sowell certainly thinks so) jjones217 Jul 2012 #2
Pot meets kettle Rain Mcloud Jul 2012 #3
You said it better than I could. SoutherDem Jul 2012 #4

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
1. A study reported to day that 25% of CEOs think illegal and/or unethical behavior is required
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:21 PM
Jul 2012

What percentage of PUNDITS do you think believe that using numbers made up on demand is required?

My guess is way over half.

jjones217

(2 posts)
2. Thomas Sowell certainly thinks so)
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:49 PM
Jul 2012

My dad (bless his heart) is a conservative Fox News sheep and doesn't quite grasp that there's a difference between facts and opinion. Anyway, he sent me this link (http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/06/12/socialist_or_fascist) to an article by Thomas Sowell wherein Sowell claims that the President isn't just a socialist - he's a fascist.

To me, this was unbelievable. And like it says in the title of your threat, if the facts don't back you up, just make something up. Apparently that's what Sowell did.

So here was my response:

This one actually made me cringe. Normally I just brush off the McCarthy-esque overtures by Fox News and the GOP regarding the Democrats being a bunch of socialists or communists. To me, they do a fine job of making themselves sound ridiculous all on their own. But fascism? Seriously? Does Thomas Sowell even know what fascism is?

1 definition: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. (notice the right-wing)

Another: Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

Or a quote about fascism by Sinclair Lewis: "When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross"

Or another quote: "When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labeled ‘made in Germany’; it will not be marked with a swastika; it will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism’"

And here are some of the top 14 characteristics of fascism:

1. Powerful and continuing nationalism - where anyone who questions the infallible essence of the country will be deemed unpatriotic (sounds a lot like Bill O'Reilly and the rest of the GOP)

2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights - who was it, again, that supported waterboarding and other inhumane forms of torture for the "greater good"

3. Identification of enemies as a scapegoat for a greater cause - in the 2000s, it was Iraq. In this election, Iran. Romney, Santorum, Bachmann, Gingrich, all of them hoping to unite the nation to incite war with Iran.

4. Supremacy of the military - that's right. What's the one thing that costs Americans the MOST in taxpayer dollars, yet the GOP refuses to budge on in budget negotiations? the military

5. Rampant sexism - Glenn Grothman (R-Wis) on why he voted against a pay equality measure for women "You could argue that money is more important for men". Add that to the slew of other anti-women measures by the GOP and the picture becomes very clear

6. Controlled mass media - this one's a bit harder for the GOP, since controlling the media through government means is illegal in our country. But you don't have to look very hard to find that every single thing said on Fox News comes from "talking points" memos that are put out by the RNC.

7. Obsession with national security - see number 4. Or just go to your local airport

8. Religion and government are intertwined - Rick Santorum, anyone? The guy who "threw up a little" when read Thomas Jefferson's comments about a "wall of separation" between church and state

9. Corporate power is protected - this is the one mark of fascism where Sowell tries to make his point. Pity he doesn't remember the 8 years of Bush's term, the Citizen's United ruling, and Mitt Romney's "corporations are people, my friend"

10. Labor power is suppressed - Scott Walker, anyone? Which party is it that is constantly trying to suppress the powers of unions to collectively bargain? I thought so.

11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts - This is my favorite. What is the phrase Rick Santorum used in response to Obama's speech about providing the chance for everyone to be able to afford to go to college? "What a snob". Add that to the constant labeling of any liberal who went to college as an "elitist" and you kind of get the picture.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment - The war on drugs can be blamed on both parties, but which crowd cheered for Rick Perry's execution record as governor? That's right, a GOP crowd.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - This one can definitely be attributed to both parties. And while so many would love to point to Obama and the current Eric Holder situation, it can be said that Bush and Rove were so much worse in his second term.

14. Fraudulent elections - This one could also be attributed, or possibly not attributed, to both parties. Though I'd like to call into memory the 2000 election, where a conservative Supreme Court handed the election to Bush, as well as the 2012 election, where every GOP governor is doing their damnedest to ensure that minorities, blacks, homeless, and young voters (the keystones of the Democrat's electorate) have a hard time voting this November.

Given the current level of political discourse in our country, ridiculous over-exaggerations and McCarthyist finger pointing never really surprises me all that much. And since the Democratic party and socialism are both left-wing institutions, ideologically speaking, the constant comparison makes some sense.

But for Thomas Sowell, or any conservative, for that matter, to call Obama or the democratic party fascist? That's just absurd.

Then again, he also called Obama "the closest thing our country has seen to Hitler". What an idiot that guy is.

SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
4. You said it better than I could.
Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:19 PM
Jul 2012

I have a list of "what a fascist is" which could be called "what a Republican is". You have some point I don't. I hope you an your father have the type of relationship that he can take facts. I am lucky my close family, really the only ones I care about, are all Democrat. But, some of the in-laws are Rethugs and don't appreciate my not taking their crap. Christmas two years ago in the middle of dinner I let the whole family know I am not one to overlook opinions as facts without defending my side with real facts. Last Christmas politics did not come up in the conversation. I wonder why?

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