2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Are harsh, intolerant, self-indulgent radicals trying to hijack Seattle?"
The Seattle political left is laboring to label the booing of BLM on Saturday as liberal racism. Its echo chamber, removed from reality, has resorted to rationalizing tactics neither rational nor civil. Most of all, the movement to change police tactics, to restore economic justice, must appeal to Americans basic sense of justice and fairness. Black Lives Matter sure didnt do that on Saturday.
Apologists are now claiming, in the words of one former intern at The Stranger, that disruption of the speech, forced Sanders campaign to address racial justice. It was, he posted, making progress f****** happen.
How condescending toward candidate Sanders. He is a veteran of the 1960s civil rights movement. He has been talking for 50 years of the need to eradicate racism. He has spoken to unemployment of African-American youth, and Americas absurd incarceration rate, from coast to coast and before 13,000 people Saturday night in Seattle. At Westlake earlier in the day, the crowd was prevented from hearing intelligent, passionate discussion of economic justice and eradicating racism. No wonder people booed.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2015/08/11/are-harsh-intolerant-self-indulgent-radicals-trying-to-hijack-seattle-we-have-a-liberal-city-to-defend/
stone space
(6,498 posts)How can he even be heard above all this noise?
If he feels condescension, let him express those feelings in his own way and in his own words.
Whatever honest feelings he may have, it is much better to let him decide how to express them.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I think the fun and games have just kinda gone on a little bit too long.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Not too smart.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Bernie has been the only candidate discussing this issue for months and they don't want to hear it. Hillary hasn't been discussing it. OMalley hasn't been discussing it. Only Bernie has been discussing it.
They (and you) just want to throw stink bombs instead.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)looks, it is actually quite meaningful to people who actually do give a shit.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Hillary had zip nana zilch on her website until a few days ago. You are projecting.
Take your fingers out of your ears and stop saying, "La la la la la!!" and you won't be so out of the loop.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Funny how die hard fans can miss HUGE NEW changes in his campaigning. LOL.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Do you think he just "appeared?"
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/legislation
Geesch.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'm not planning to vote for him in the primary, but I have a great deal of respect for Bernie Sanders. How am I trying to undo his goodwill?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Like saying the BLM women acted like jerks?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Bizarre accusations against Sanders
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I have not seen anyone point to it here when this was discussed before. Others have said there are new ideas and proposals- are you saying there are not?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Sorry it brings you so much agony
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)A lot of stuff to do. A lot of basic organizational stuff. A lot of issues to address.
Sanders has certainly addressing the basic issues involved -- for years. It's not his fault that some people weren't paying attention until now.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)someone else senator for years and see how that works. BS has CORRECTED course. Don't let ego get in the way of accepting that.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)when asked about Mike Brown were beyond tone deaf.
He has upped his game considerably- and that is awesome. Not going to rewrite history for you, though.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)ms liberty
(8,584 posts)These are things Bernie has been talking about for a very long time. What is new is that they have been consolidated under one tab on his POTUS campaign website.
tblue
(16,350 posts)He had racial justice on his sight already. And he has dedicated his life to it. Please read up on him if you want the truth and you'll see what an extraordinary human being he is and always was. Fighting for your own cause is great. Fighting someone else's is extraordinary in my book. He really never had to do jack--he lost family in the Holocaust; he could have stuck with just that--but he did has always, always, to this day, fought for the disenfranchised and the voiceless. And he's fought boldly too to make better laws that literally impact our daily lives.
What Has Bernie done exactly? I'll tell you if you want to know.
Peace & solidarity...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)they are not asking about MLK/ fifty years ago. That was a large part of the problem, not listening and respecting the question asked.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)My thoughts exactly.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)had failed to address social justice issues. It wasn't until people started calling him out that his campaign offered more than just a sound bite & the tired meme about him marching 40+ years ago.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He has never stopped talking about it. It's all there for anyone motivated enough to look.
Your 'Bernie never talks about social justice' meme is a LIE
TM99
(8,352 posts)right around the time the meme was picking up steam here with a certain segment.
Any direct challenge of the meme is met with silence and repetitions of the same statements.
And on edit, I notice she has six posts hidden and is currently flagged for review. Wow, that one post reeked of virulent anti-Semitism.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Someone else will have to post results, I'm at work.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I would like to see the alert and the reason for it. Frankly I have no idea how that could have happened.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)Before it was politically convenient. He's been remarkably consistent and has been a fierce fighter for all liberal cause and civil rights for 50 years. We are responding to flat out lies. You guys are doing exactly what fox news does. Twisting an event to progress a narrative and then repeating the lie over and over until people either don't remember the truth or are so over saturated by the lie that they believe it.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Sanders has talked about social justice continually. It is one of his central themes.
The Democratic candidates--by your own statement--are too old and too white. So wtf are you doing here?
frylock
(34,825 posts)#BLM wants us to listen. Okay, were listening. Fucking say something. Demanding people #sayhername may feel good, but it accomplishes jack fucking shit.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And they chose to call people filthy names and throw stink bombs instead. They don't want dialog. They don't want to discuss policy. They just want to burn the house down thinking they are helping Hillary, but all they do is shine more sunlight on her ersatz liberalism.
cali
(114,904 posts)Obvious and none too admirable. Fits with your candidate like a glove.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)and racial violence, as well as white "liberals" who think their feelings are more important than lethal racial injustice.
frylock
(34,825 posts)the nerve of some people.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I can't believe the chutzpah of some posters!
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)The article was about the ones that hijacked the Seattle social security rally that was supposed to feature Sanders as a guest speaker.
artislife
(9,497 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I didn't think you had me in mind. Don't worry, I don't think everything is about me. I'm simply proclaiming my support for BLM over white privilege. The idea that a movement for human lives is more "self-indulgent" than white liberals who believe they and their favored politician are too important to be inconvenienced is the ultimate in irony.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)As I posted in another thread, anybody who behaves like this group did in Seattle gets no time or respect from me.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Guns better than shouting? I made an option for that in my poll based on the request of another valiant 2A defender. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251515065
Only then he didn't choose that option after all. I feel a bit miffed about that.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)jumping up on a stage and bullying an old man. I guess you could argue that he bullied the king long distance or something.
What the BLM women did was cowardly and rude. Hopefully all of the candidates will have better security in place from now on to keep this sort of crap from happening.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)There was a lot of shouting and throwing of other people's property into the harbor.
You want to know someone who was really rude?
Nat Turner
Denmark Vesey was rude too:
But then slavery was pretty rude too, as is a society in which police kill hundreds of black people every year with impunity.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)just STOP< you are not helping any one. This act is also making you look foolish in the extreme
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Bernie Sanders never owned slaves or oppressed anyone.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)He's running to be president of this country. Killings of black people is a major political issue. If he only wants to be held accountable for what he has personally done, he shouldn't be in politics. A president is expected to represent all Americans. African Americans are the single most reliable Democratic voting block, and many of them have had enough of voting for Democrats who don't address serious problems like those killings. They have every right to make their voices heard. It has to do with the presidency and political representation, not Sanders personally. As I said, that's the deal when someone runs for president. BLM has protested most of the candidates in the race, yet no one else's supporters have freaked out over it. For some reason, it is only Sanders supporters who think themselves too good to have to be confronted with the free speech of others, who see activists for black lives as beneath them. O'Malley's supporters haven't reacted that way. Jeb Bush's supporters haven't even reacted that way.
People here seem to think black people owe them something. They do not. They owe Sanders nor anyone here a thing.
People can't claim to be progressive or leftist and work to silence the subaltern.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Honest question here: how would you be reacting if Secretary Clinton had been accosted in the same way that Senator Sanders was?
haikugal
(6,476 posts)No amount of discussion or reasoning or attempt to understand will go without derision and the appropriate (to them) amount of twisting to their purpose. That purpose is to create Google memes.
Tweet, Google etc. memes. Check it out.
Anyone who supports someone who supports Louis Farrakhan is not someone I want to know better. Anyone who isn't interested in listening and discussing and coming to some two way understanding in not someone who is interested in raising us all up.
Anyone who could have chosen to talk but wanted to disrupt and ended with a hashtag #BowdownBernie is beyond disgusting. It isn't about the young women who did this, it's about changing and improving justice system for everyone. Stop the killing, all the killing!!!! Stop the abuse, stop the hate!
There are people here who do nothing but keep the pot stirred, that is their entire reason for posting. Pfft...
Me? I'm going to continue doing what needs to be done.
cali
(114,904 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am Latina, and by your own definitions I don't either. And I do not attempt to, beyond conveying what we have been told and seen...
For the record, you deal with this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251516428
I will ask you ONCE again stop playing this shitty racist game. And as a Latina I think I can detect it.
artislife
(9,497 posts)There are so many here who are fronting. And as you go back and check the recs on some posters, you can see exactly when the "concern" came in...
It makes me more disappointed than those who are straight up discouraged by the events.
Kind of like why Blacks have issues with White Progressives, its the grandstanding.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)I suppose you find no irony in speaking for black people so you?
artislife
(9,497 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)That's gonna burn for a bit. lol
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So you'll understand why I question your claim that you're a "radical entirely intolerant of racism".
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)credentials.
The poster hasn't been interested in racial justice issues until it appeared to favor her candidate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She's exploiting gender issues the same way but women on DU aren't buying the meme that Bernie doesn't care about us.
Bernie Sanders is the best candidate when it comes to civil rights, no amount of manufactured poutrage can change that fact.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)that I don't seek to return America to the 1950s and refuse to work to put the white upper-middle and middle class back to what they see as their rightful place atop the capitalist world order. And no, I will not join in the great and noble struggle of the 10 percent vs. the 1 percent. I won't stand with any group of people who show contempt toward the subaltern.
Apparently the idea that one's political consciousness is not defined around a politician comes as a shock to you. Somehow that doesn't surprise me given the great man view of politics that reigns around here.
Prior to this election cycle, I was regularly dismissed as a "radical feminist" for daring to believe rapists should be prosecuted and that women were human beings entitled to equal rights. Now because I refuse to subsume my rights and those of the majority for the economic concerns of the white middle and upper-middle class, I am now a corporatist supporter of the status quo. I am of course the same person with the same political views, who does not contort and twist them in order to accommodate one politician or another. Who I vote for is the least of my concerns; it does not define who I am.
I am only radical to those whose spectrum of acceptable politics is bound to the interests of the white bourgeoisie. I am a leftist and I will always be a leftist. That means I stand with the people--the subaltern--over those who seek to usurp their rights, whose only critique of capital is that they themselves do not reap the benefits they once did.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)being anywhere near public office for any reason.
That's just me bains.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)GUNS!
It all makes sense.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)...unfortunately I passed the fridge and remembered there was beer.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Talk about "evolving".
That came out of nowhere.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Slap the cuffs on me, boss.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)Just stop Dan. Real life is more complex then the lens you view it from.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Particularly in an OP titled "Are harsh, intolerant, self-indulgent radicals trying to hijack Seattle?"
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)An entire group of people over the actions of a few. Can you say hypocrisy?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)LEAD US, DANTEX.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'm a Clinton guy myself, but that's pretty insulting.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)People can say what happened in Seattle "forced" Bernie to do the right thing, but it's self-congratulatory bull because he's always done the right thing by PoC. If he's been forced to do anything, it's add the expected (and evolving) language and imagary to his campaign. Maybe that in itself is considered a win, but the style of the Seattle protesters is not building support. From what I can tell it turned off a lot of people, including a good number of PoC. Too bad he never gets the kind of BLM "protests" Hillary seems to get.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)supporter, who's never done anything to them, then what kind of attitude are they showing the police?'
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Black folks are getting murdered by white police. Maybe some cases aren't cut and dry, but enough are that something has to be done.
cali
(114,904 posts)It's whitesplaining. Worse it's white supremacism.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)conducts itself. Many of my fellow gays feel the same way as I do. Does that make me a self loathing gay hater who is also gay? The attempts by the people who try to equate criticism of how a group with a worthy cause conducts themselves with hating the cause is fucking disingenuous and absurd and it is being done for obvious reasons.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)nt
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)If you voted for least popular gay individual in the movement, Joe Solmonese would've gotten a whole lot of votes for a very long time.
That's why I'm having slight trouble tackling the BLM matters movement. On the one hand, my impulse is to defer to the leaders, such as they are in a flat movement. But on the other, I know I didn't want the "leaders" of the LGBT movement speaking for me much of the time. Their interests oftentimes did not align with my own, and how they chose to advance things really didn't often tack with where the rest of the community was at.
And, of course, the people interested in maintaining Establishment status quo always threw Solmonese in our faces when the rest of us were protesting.
There are some similarities here, in that I often see, "This is one of the founders of BLM. If you don't agree with her, then you're wrong and terrible." Well, maybe. But I rarely agreed with Solmonese, and I don't think anyone who did disagree with him or the HRC was automatically an enemy of LGBT progress.
It's weird. There's a lot of history on DU in regards to the LGBT movement, how we reacted, what our leadership did, etc. Many of the posters now doing a 180 were posting about it then, but now there's a total collective amnesia.
I suppose political expediency can do that to a noggin.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I entirely agree.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)And only conflict in this.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)After decades of "harsh, intolerant, self-indulgent radicals" defining Seattle, this is now a thing?
Holy fucking wow.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)but we can start with the General Strike in 1919 and move through the anarchist underpinnings of much of the left since then.
It's humorous that someone has suddenly discovered a a discomfiting bit of boisterous protest there.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'm not sure how to take your reply.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)And keep it like Bernie. Stay positive, adapt, consider, but don't attack. This isn't helping anymore if it ever did.
I support the message of BLM. I want to see society change.
I think Bernie Sanders a guy, I've listened to him on the radio here and there over the years. He has great messages.
Sometimes everybody needs to let news die and move in to a next cycle.
Sanders has moved on.
Let it go.
BLM is trying to show that they are protesting other candidates as well.
I think the truth is Bernie Sanders was a "soft target." I read that somewhere.
It was a lot easier to get on stage with him than any other politician, and he was kind enough to let go of the stage instead of body guarding up.
So it went further with him that with other politicians.
They wanted a national stage and they took it.
I really think that has a lot to do with it.
The sad and sick part is how many progressive people have retreated to their two home team camps and made it us vs them when it should be us.
Some of the criticisms from Bernie fans have been tone deaf.
Some of the remarks from these BLM activists were asinine.
Together that made a tough situation were people couldn't communicate.
On one hand, you have a group supporting a guy who took real risks with his life to march and go to jail that are mind blown that BLM can't see him as an alley.
On the other hand, you have some folks that think this was ancient history and akin to saying "I have a black friend."
And you even have some that think it was courageous to yell at Bernie Sanders and just expected liberal behavior to mark with MLK.
On the other hand, you even have some that think it was nothing more than rude self-absorbed behavior.
The mistake is thinking that the two groups share the same goals. They really should long-term, but short term they do not. One group is about nothing making Bernie look bad, the other group is about getting as much exposure as possible to their message. Those two goals clashed.
One group thinks it was stupid politics, one group thinks it wasn't. Because they have different goals!!
Now it is time to move on. Let it go and lick the wounds and find ways to get back together on working towards that big goal we share. We can do that, or we can keep sniping each other over trifling bullshit.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'll go with that one.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)NOT a Bernie Sanders sponsored event.
It had been in planning for months. The administrators of the event invited Bernie Sanders to speak there.
If Bernie had declined to speak, the event would still have taken place without him. The actual Bernie Sanders rally, which was not disrupted, took place in a different venue, several hours later.
Social Security and Medicare are critical social support systems for POC in this country.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)need social security, and need this conversation to happen.
i think it's very significant that this happened at the SS/Medicare event. in effect, it's the message that was disrupted, not the person.
FraDon
(518 posts)... just how will they Swiftboat Bernie?
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)On my part.
I got to "we don't want to be bezerkly" and instantly hated the author.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Hilarious -- is that really the best they could do to discredit Bernie? If an intern at The Stranger said it, it must be accurate!!