2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie is the best Democratic candidate in my life.
All this nonsense about whether or not Bernie is a Democrat is just plain crap.
I wonder where it's coming from? Oh, I see from where.
Bernie Sanders has the heart, the mind, and the history as one of the best politicians in the modern Democratic Party.
All of you inferring he's not welcome to run as a Democrat make me wonder if any of you are a true Democratic Party member.
The Democratic Party I know does not exclude anyone who believes as we do, so any attempt at excluding Bernie is tantamount to an attempt at ruining the Democratic Party.
Be very careful, people. This is a fighting matter.
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ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Dennis Kucinich.....
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Bernie exceeds them and given the chance will be more loved than even FDR or JFK, I do believe.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)McGovern was an actual center-left democratic socialist reformer.
delrem
(9,688 posts)hundreds of thousands if not millions wouldn't have been tortured and/or killed in Reagan's covert and open wars. Many whole countries wouldn't have been destroyed, but might have had a better chance. "Trickle down economics" wouldn't have been given such an early and awful start, coupled with the jingoism of war rhetoric.
I don't remember Carter as being anything like the neolibs of 2015 (I mean, heartless).
erronis
(15,257 posts)That's why so many evil people contrived on ways to subvert Carter - all the way from the news media to the backroom operators at Langley.
Government of the people? Not so much.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Many don't seem to understand that about Carter. He is a decent human being, but what you said, nonetheless.
DeeDeeNY
(3,355 posts)He was the first president I ever voted for.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)Would President Carter have signed the Surface Mining Control & Reclamation Act (SMCRA) into law on August 3, 1977 if he had been a deregulationist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Mining_Control_and_Reclamation_Act_of_1977
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Petrushka
(3,709 posts)For some reason, I was under the mistaken impression that deregulation was Reagan's baby.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)were all for carter's deregulation
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... coming from the south, that seemed trying to capture some of the "born again" conservative movement, which I think did have young people like Michele Bachmann actively campaigning for him then, and people like me looking at John Anderson.
In retrospect though, as I've gotten older, I've been able to far more appreciate him as I think the best ex-president in our lifetimes, serving our country and the world so much more after he left office. I also appreciate now many of his efforts to push for solar energy, that would have made the world such a better place if that had been followed through on instead of Reagan shutting it down when he also symbolically tore down the solar panels on the White House and lead us away from the renewal energy path which would have put us in such better shape today if it had been followed.
And the way Reagan manipulated the Iranians in to helping him get elected over Carter through the "hostage deal" is just as reprehensible as Nixon was when he cut a deal with the South Vietnamese to not do peace talks that were arranged before the election then too, that Lyndon Johnson calls in private phone calls that have been released since then treasonous.
Also, I think we should also acknowledge that Carter perhaps assisted the beginnings of Bin Laden and Al Queda when he approved covert aid to guerillas in Afghanistan against the Soviets that had power there then.
http://www.thenation.com/article/blowback-prequel/
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)But -- what makes it ever worse is -- this is coming from a party that likes
to brag about having a "Big Tent" too, yet they somehow can't find room
for a candidate solidly in the FDR tradition.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I get that a certain someone's supporters are very worried. But this is the Democratic Party we are talking about, and good Democrats don't use such slimy tactics on our own People. And Bernie IS ours.
you rock Robert!
ruffburr
(1,190 posts)The only honest politician left in America is Bernie Sanders, Period, For the first time in my life I see a glimmer of hope for this country, I had high hopes for Obama, he has been a good president considering he has been undermined from day one by our "friends" in the Republican party, but he still is owned by the 1% visi-vie the TPP , Not to mention no banker prosecutions nor Iraq war prosecutions, on the whole he did the best he could and sometimes he did real good, On the other hand Bernie will not let himself be owned by the corporate gangsters who continue their sacking of the country but will truly represent the people.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That Bernie supporters hate Obama. I read it here on DU!!
If Bernie wanted, he'd be as rich as any other senator by taking bribes. But he has shown he can not be bought.
TBF
(32,060 posts)I think if you actually break this down many of us didn't think Hillary could win in '08 and we worked for Obama instead.
Brazoria County, Precinct 58, Co-precinct leader, Caucused for Obama, Door to Door for Obama, Calls for Obama -> TBF
I still don't think she can win, will vote for her if she wins the primary, would much rather have Bernie. Do I "love" Obama? He's a little too conservative and pro-free market imo, but I think his legacy will be positive overall & he will especially be remembered for ACA.
erronis
(15,257 posts)Come on DU - give us a way to vote on comments, please.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Loves me some Obama. Lookin' forward to all the support he can give us too.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)I have similar levels of trust in Sherrod Brown and think there are more than a big handful of good reps in the House.
I'm even a little optimistic (cautiously so for sure but I'm not going to ignore him) on O'Malley just because he isn't weaseling or using ink blot speak when he hits the right notes.
But yeah at the "Major League" level Governor/Senate/Cabinet area the cupboard is near empty. Even the decentish moderates are all getting up in years and those coming up behind are heavy on the Turd Way/"Centrist" side.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There are other honest ones. Sherrod Brown for one example.
And there are others who are basically honest, but have had to see their souls to some degree in our currently rotten system. But given their druthers -- and often in reality -- they vote with the conscience and values, rather than who is greasing their palm.
canuck eh
(22 posts)
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I've been voting since 1978. I'm not going to vote for someone who's more conservative than Reagan. So that pretty much excludes Hillary.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)
Cleita
(75,480 posts)as best Democratic candidate, maybe even better if you have to bring in that war thing now that I think about it.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts). . . and, yes, Bernie is in FDR's league. He is also the best Democratic candidate since JFK.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)You gonna beat someone up, Bob?
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)but he IS running for the Democratic nomination. Both facts are true, indisputable.
Democrat is not a reflection in your mirror. It is membership in a party, nothing more, nothing less.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)returns to being the REAL Democratic Party, and not the corporatist shell that claiming to still be it when it no longer represents traditional democratic party in its quests to be bought out by the 1%.
erronis
(15,257 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)why would he later?
This "real Democratic party" canard shows either a complete lack of familiarity with history or is willfully exlcusionary. When did this "real Democratic Party" exist? When it was the party of slaveholders? When it enforced and maintained Jim Crow? When it made war on Vietnam, and used soldiers of color as cannon fodder? You live in a capitalist state and you have your entire life. This nation was founded on inequality and has maintained that system throughout its history. People long for the halcyon days of the "real Democratic Party" when the majority were denied civil rights and lived in crippling poverty. Yet that was the "real Democratic Party" because it ensured the white upper-middle class and middle-class prospered at the expense of the many.
1 percent, 10 percent (household income of $150k) 20 percent ($100k)-- makes no difference to me when they show that they see themselves as the only people who matter, when they discredit activists working to save human lives, and show absolutely no concern for inequality when it affected everyone but them. The entire construct of the 1 percent vs. the 99 percent belies class differences and enables the self entitled to pretend they are exploited, when they are anything but.
But the hopes and dreams of today’s educated class are based on the idea that market capitalism is a meritocracy. The unreachable success of the superrich shreds those dreams.
“I’ve seen it in my research,” says pollster Doug Schoen, who counsels Michael Bloomberg and Hillary Clinton, among others. “If you look at the lower part of the upper class or the upper part of the upper middle class, there’s a great deal of frustration. These are people who assumed that their hard work and conventional ‘success’ would leave them with no worries. It’s the type of rumbling that could lead to political volatility.”
Lower uppers are doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers. At companies they’re mostly executives above the rank of VP but below the CEO. Their comrades include well-fed members of the media (and even Fortune columnists who earn their living as consultants).
Lower uppers are professionals who by dint of schooling, hard work and luck are living better than 99 percent of the humans who have ever walked the planet. They’re also people who can’t help but notice how many folks with credentials like theirs are living in Gatsby-esque splendor they’ll never enjoy.
http://business.time.com/2009/02/04/the-revolt-of-the-lower-upper-class-begins/
Where were they when I was working from age 10 to pay for laundry and school clothes? Those were the days of the "real Democratic party." No, I will not assist in restoring that past, to put the white upper-middle and middle-class back to what they see as their rightful place atop the capitalist word order. Hell no.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... like this one, where they welcome the corporate fascists hatred rather than the control over their party by those bastards!
And so many of us REAL Democrats would look forward to that rebirth of a party once it has gotten rid of the cancer it has now that so many here either don't see or are part of this infection.
When I get unemployed twice a year by the Corporatist BULLSHIT H-1B programs that both parties in their love affair with corporate FASCIST power (I'm looking for work again this coming monday again which makes it rather personal for me now!), then I'm sorry, quit your bitching that we don't have problems too inflicted by our current political system.
Keep your swallowing the politics of division that the top is manipulating you in to doing in driving those of us that would work with you, but you continue to think that only your problems are worth dealing with. That will solve absolutely NOTHING sir!
We have some big problems! ALL of us do except those at the top that are screwing us! Unless we work together, we will all be kept going down the ladder.
Are you accusing Bernie Sanders and his followers of "discrediting activists working to save human lives" just because he doesn't go for the corporatist media trap of joining the Third Way club when he's all about changing that mess? If you are, then you are seriously DELUDED!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Democratic Party. I would never vote for a Republican. They are sick and mean people.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... about whether or not Bernie is a Democrat" comes from the fact that he's not.
You can call "facts" nonsense - but they're still facts nonetheless.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Case closed. He will be a Democratic President.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)But he's not a Democrat, by his own choice.
And he'll never be president, Democratic or otherwise.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Really? You have an issue with this? You are in favor of excluding Bernie from being a Democrat?
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... has excluded himself from being a Democrat. He doesn't want to be a member of our Party - his choice, not mine.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)So that proves you wrong.
In Vermont he figured if he ran there as an independent, against the establishment, he could get even those who hate Democrats to vote for him. He will be quite able to get many of those types to do the same across the country from sea-to-shining-sea.
The first real uniter, and he will be a Democratic President.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)those of Democrats than those that sold out in 2002 and helped the Republicans wage war. They helped the Republicans. They are in part responsible for thousands of deaths, or ten thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths. What kind of person would support that?
eridani
(51,907 posts)--more so than many with a D after the name.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There's no good reason to make his registration an issue when we both know it doesn't matter to anyone but the anti-progressive wing of the party.
TBF
(32,060 posts)most often votes with them. Is that something you're prepared to lose?
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)Why? Has Bernie threatened to stop caucusing with the Dems if he doesn't get the nomination?
TBF
(32,060 posts)I have no problem with whatever he wants to call himself because my positions line up with his. But I don't put party above all else as some do.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... or anyone else's. The fact is he is not a member of the Democratic Party - by his own choice.
Why should I "accept" someone as a Democrat when they've made it abundantly clear that they don't want to BE a Democrat?
TBF
(32,060 posts)it's up to us to decide whether he represents our ideals. So I look at how he votes on the issues. Others may just look at a logo.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)He's running for the nomination of a Party he has steadfastly refused to be a member of.
What BS is really saying is: "I want you to support my political ambitions - but don't expect me to actually BE one of you."
Maybe you think that being a Democrat is about "logos" - I don't. I see it as something far beyond that.
If BS stood for absolutely everything I believed in (which he doesn't), I would still be wary of anyone who wants the donations, support and votes of people he doesn't want to actually be identified with.
TBF
(32,060 posts)to me his views/behaviors (how he votes when push comes to shove) are what matters. I took an on-line quiz in which I agreed with him 98% of the time, Hillary 74%, Bush 52%, Cruz 0% (that's about right). That matches how I feel about them generally as well and how I would vote. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, Hillary it is. But I'm also not going to choose her over him just because she is a registered democrat - not when I agree with him on basically everything. I personally did declare as a dem here in Texas in 2008 so I could caucus for Obama, but that only goes so far.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Too bad the current shell of a Democratic Party doesn't seem to want to give speeches like this lest they offend those that FDR welcomed hatred from!
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)and start using "Bernie Sanders (D)", not "Bernie Sanders (I)"
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)who left the Democrats because of its Third Way infection because the media would then say that Bernie "surrendered" to joining the Third Way then...
dflprincess
(28,078 posts)but he has always caucused with the Democrats in Congress.
Good enough for me.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Too bad for Democrats as they lose more support in the general election as a result, even if DWS's candidate wins the nomination.
Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #23)
rhett o rick This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)records and commitments. Sen Sanders meets Democratic standards much closer than Clinton who remember turned her back on her Party, her conscience, her nation, and, not only supported the republicons, but helped them sell their war on the Iraqi people. How can we overlook this "mistake" that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands plus the deaths of our troops, the wounds to our troops, etc. How many of our vets are living on the streets thanks to the Republicons, their war, and those, so-called Democrats that helped them?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)When he's more of a Democrat on the issues than your candidate is. And she still hasn't admitted she was wrong to help create the DLC, an organization that essentially kicked millions of Democratic progressives out of the party and made sure those who remained had no say between 1992 and 2001...a purge that achieved nothing good whatsoever.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)dflprincess
(28,078 posts)so there's no way he could register as one.
I think what they're whining about is that he ran as an Independent in elections even though he always caucused with the Democrats in Congress. The "new" Democrat types are desperately trying to find a way to exclude him from the primaries and caucuses. That would be the biggest mistake they ever made but they're stuck in the mind set that they could get by with it because we "have no where else to go".
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I'm a Democrat due to lack of options. Seems like Bernie is in the same boat, but he'll make a damn fine Democratic President.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)
KoKo
(84,711 posts)He has connections there...and he's not beholden to Family Wealth, Legacy, Power Influence, or Corporate Donors he owes favors to.
This experience makes him better qualified than the rest. He knows where the bodies lie and who did what to Advantage the System to make them Wealthy...(to put it bluntly).
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Posters have way too much influence over you. If he is what you say, he will simply walk into the White House. Take a look here.
https://www.democrats.org
I'm beginning to realize some get all of their political information from du. Truly a terrifying thought.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I just wonder if he really wants to be one. Seems to me, he's spent most of his career trying to keep his distance.
artislife
(9,497 posts)
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Quote; Bernie Sanders, Independent, Vermont
I'm not a Democrat
Using your logic I could say that Jill Stein is the best Democratic candidate in my life.
And so, if I don't support someone who has gone on the record as not being a Democrat I'm ruining the Democratic Party? Okay. 
Sorry, but I can't support an Independent that has decided that he is the best person to represent the Democratic Party. I'd have more respect for him if he'd just run as an Independent. That would be the honest thing to do.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Someone puts a label on themselves that you consider to be improper means you have the right to exclude them from being a Democrat?
No true Democrat should do that... Actions speak louder than words, and Bernie's actions are truly Democratic. Case closed.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Senator Sanders made the decision to exclude himself from the Democratic Party. I didn't. He can be whatever he chooses. I just think it's a bit dishonest to say one thing and do another.
And now I'm not a "true Democrat"??!!!
This is like an episode of The Twilight Zone. It's okay for you to label someone but I can't. Brain. Hurt.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You claim: "He can be whatever he chooses".
He has chosen to be a Democrat and run as a Democrat.
A true Democrat would welcome Bernie with open arms as he runs as a Democrat. Case closed.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)As far as I'm concerned, he is welcome. He just doesn't seem to WANT to be a Democrat. Right now, he seems like the guy who wants to waltz in, and be captain of the chess club, but doesn't want to be called a nerd.
I really wish he would just say "I am a Democrat." I mean, why doesn't he?
I hope if he hasn't done that by the time the debates roll around, someone asks him "are you a Democrat?"
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)is mind-numbingly stupid, and is the reason our political system is so fucked up.
Thanks for being part of the problem, not the solution.
/bye.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)I didn't attach a "D" to Bernie Sanders. The OP did.
So, is the OP "mind-numbingly stupid" and "part of the problem"?
TBF
(32,060 posts)there is no way you'd have respect for him if he ran as an independent. Then all we would hear on DU is "Bernie is taking votes away from Hillary so he's hurting democrats". It would be "Nader ... blah blah blah" every post.
And Bernie really is not that stupid - nor are his supporters.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)After he was destroyed by the establishment...I voted 3rd party.
november3rd
(1,113 posts)
KoKo
(84,711 posts)than any other President in my life...
I don't see the LOYALTIES to money, family, inherited or ill gained wealth dogging him.
Jimmy Carter didn't have the advantage of Bernie's Mayorship in VT and his time in the US Senate and House...so he wasn't connected into the Power System. Which is why the Dems who got him into the WH loved him and his humble roots and his Run for President that took it "To the People."
But when he got into the Presidency the PTB started immediately on him to drag down his Presidency.
But all in all...Bernie is the best I've seen for credentials and being on MESSAGE for his whole life about issues that are important "TO THE COMMON PEOPLE..of ALL STRIPES.
I go back to JFK for voting experience. Too young to cast a vote for him...but loved him and his message and wish I could have.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)As a lifelong fan of the films of Frank Capra I can honestly say he is the most like a protagonist from one his films as any politician, let alone Presidential candidate, of my lifetime.
Heck, even his run is like a Capra flick. Drawing large crowds, riding the train alone, fighting for lost causes. Ol Frank couldn't have a storyboard any better.
