Clinton on race: Some say, 'Well racism is a result of economic inequality.' I don't believe that"

[bigtree]

"This (BLM movement) is fueled in large measure by young people and it is a particular development in the civil rights movement that deserves our support," Clinton said. "By that I mean, there are some who say, 'Well racism is a result of economic inequality.' I don't believe that."

During the interview with Jamie Harrison, chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, Clinton added that income inequality "is in large measure a symptom of underlying racism and therefore you can't solve this just by creating more jobs, you can't solve this just by getting more kids to go to college."

"They are asking us to face these hard questions and shame on us if we don't do just that," Clinton told Harrison, referring to the Black Lives Matters protestors.


read: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-race/index.html


Although the article tries to cast this as a dig at Sanders, in fact, Sanders and Clinton are essentially saying the same thing - although, Sanders does put more emphasis on economics when he discusses issues of race, perhaps due to that subject being the overriding theme of his campaign, not necessarily an attempt to equate the two in any order of importance.

[David__77]

1. Is anyone arguing that racism stems from economic inequality?

I think I get her point, which I take as "racism is, at least to some degree, distinct from class issues." And I agree with that - racism cannot simply be boiled down to a class issue.

[bigtree]

3. I don't know where she's going with this (or who she's refuting)

...but, as you say, her argument certainly has merit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. I think she is drawing a distinction between ...

Herself and Bernie.

[BainsBane]

42. It very much is the Sanders argument

and oft repeated by his supporters.

[uponit7771]

75. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. Yes ... Just read the economic/social justice threads. n/t

[noiretextatique]

16. only a few misguided souls

and that has been blown way out-of-proportion, by some. however, let's not pretend that economic justice will not help a lot of people of color. poverty is a component of social injustice.

[Maedhros]

2. You're raising a bit of a straw man here, Hillary.

Nobody has claimed that racism is a result of economic inequality.

What has been said is that reducing economic inequality in minority communities empowers those communities, and empowering communities is necessary to address institutional racism.

[bigtree]

6. it is a strawman if she's trying to make a distinction between her view and Bernie's, for example

...but, perhaps, it's not totally pointless to make the distinction. It's not as if there's universal understanding of racial issues; actually there's widespread distortion and misunderstanding.

It would be a good point of debate for Sanders, though, if she raises this directly against him. I'd be interested in his response for the sake of a broader discussion of the relationships between economics and racial perceptions and discrimination.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. Subtle point that I missed ...

"Result of"

[bigtree]

27. I'm reading this over and over

...and I'm even more confused about the point she's making. The second quote is accurate, but doesn't necessarily follow the first, and has an even more confounding source.

Did Sanders actually say this, or is this being inflated by the CNN report as a slam on Sanders?

If I had to judge, I'd say it's an awkward statement which is less about differences with Sanders than her own attempt to define the issue of race and its relationship to economics. Her first quote needs clarifying as to the source, intent, and meaning to her.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Agreed ...

Perhaps, she heard/is hearing what some here have said ... solving economic injustice and social injustice will be solved. We know this to be untrue; but, the narrative continues.

[AllFieldsRequired]

52. One thing is damn sure, the African American community is being used.

And not just by one politician.

[nc4bo]

79. Why do you say that?

I honestly think it's the other way around and its about time in fact, way past time.

[AllFieldsRequired]

80. You think the black people are using someone?

[Sheepshank]

45. I'm of the opinion that class and economic fixes

are touted so frequently, because on first blush they appear to have caused the problem and is an easier fix than changing public opinion and adressing social injustices. So many people here on Du promote the idea that economic fixes will move the social fixes in a particular direction. It doesn't and it won't.

I'm not sure this 1/2 of a sentence is something to get all knotted up over. But there is a contingent that wants to get knotted up over everything she says...so there is that.

The reality is that Bernie is starting to evolve on the matter and has lately mentioned that there is an intersection of Social and Economic injustices that need to be addressed. That's more than he had pronounced in the past 20 years.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. Yeah ... there is that! ...

I completely agree with your assessment of Bernie's evolution of language, if not thought. And I welcome a continuing of this evolution.

[Armstead]

21. No...."there are some who say...." is Code for "Bernie Sanders. She's just trying to score points.

It's typical Clintonian sneakiness, and its one of the reason I dislike her.

If she felt she wanted to "go there" why couldn't she have just been honest? "Some like my opponent Bernie Sanders says...."

But she know it is something she can exploit. But she can't be honest about her intentions.

Were Sanders in the same position, he would have said -- as he has on other issues -- "I respectfully disagree with Mrs. Clinton on that matter.."

Difference between honest campaigning and Rovian hogwash.

[bigtree]

32. you can draw that conflict out too far, and relate every statement she makes

...as a slam on her opponent.

I think this is more of a grasping attempt to make a cogent definition of the relationship between racism and economic opportunity. At any rate, it's an interesting point of debate which deserves a better forum than CNN's opportunistic casting.

[global1]

9. Then What Is Hillary's Answer To Solving The Racism Problem?......

During the interview with Jamie Harrison, chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, Clinton added that income inequality "is in large measure a symptom of underlying racism and therefore you can't solve this just by creating more jobs, you can't solve this just by getting more kids to go to college."

At least Bernie is attempting to work on the symptoms. One has to start somewhere.

How will Hillary solve the racism problem as President? Again - sounds good - but offering no solutions.

[uponit7771]

76. People are going to be racist but folks racism shouldn't be allowed to affect others rights as human

... for the pursuit of happiness etc.

Laws that curtail or stop the effect of racism is what is needed along with economic justic

[Adrahil]

18. Actually, that idea is deeply rooted in leftist thought....

Some examples:

http://socialistworker.org/2002-2/431/431_08_Racism.shtml

http://www.socialismtoday.org/33/slavery33.html

http://isreview.org/issues/26/roots_of_racism.shtml

http://academic.evergreen.edu/b/bohmerp/marxracism.htm

Here's a good description of how socialist thought has related to racism and Cornel West's attempts to recast racism in the Democratic Socialist movement (his ideas have not been widely adopted yet.... socialism still struggles with too narrowly engaging racism as a consequence of class exploitation):
http://www.chicagodsa.org/CornelWest.html

Just a few examples. There are a LOT more. It's pretty much a consequence of Marx's Base and Superstructure model.

[daybranch]

53. WEB Dubois, a great black historian and Howard Zinn, activist

have both said that racism is enhanced and the pot stirred to create racial division within the poor class is necessary to win election by those Capitalists would enslave us all.

To Quote Du Bois, from his book Black Reconstruction written in 1935,
"God wept,but that mattered little to an unbelieving age, what mattered most was that the world wept and still is weeping and blind with tears and blood. For there began to arise in America in 1876 a new capitalism and a new enslavement of labor.
He also said-
Home labor in cultured lands, appeased and misled by a ballot whose power the dictatorship of of vast capital strictly curtailed, was bribed with high wage and political office to unite in an exploitation of white , yellow, brown , and black labor, in lesser lands.

Howard Zinn in his book "A People's History of the United States" copyrighted in 1980 states yes racism was a factor but accumulations of capital, and the men who controlled them, were as unaffected by attitudinal prejudices as it is possible to be. Without sentiment, without emotion, those who sought profit from Alabama's resources turned other men's prejudices and attitudes to their own account, and did so with skill and a ruthless acumen.

I a not a historian and I do play one on Television, but this says racism is used by the rich to manipulate white people and maintain divisions within class. Racism does not come from economic inequality, but as a tool, it sure helps keep economic inequality going.

Bernie may not have said it, but she worries that he will say what leaders in the black community and white progressives already know-racism is important to creating the hate necessary to elect those political hacks who support the rich class.

To Hillary supporters wishing to live in an America which never existed, I say read Zinn's history book and DuBois writings. You need to open your eyes and remember you cannot serve two masters.

[Vattel]

4. She is obviously trying to suggest that this is what Bernie thinks.

He doesn't, of course, and she should know that. Not cool Hillary.

[bigtree]

8. well, I say let them have that debate

...it's not as if he can't defend himself.

Lets hear more about the relationship between race and economic opportunity; between economics and social justice; between race and political access and acceptability...

[Maedhros]

11. The f#$%ing DNC won't let them have any f#$%ing debates.

Otherwise I agree: let them make their points head-to-head.

[winter is coming]

28. +1. It's a variant of the old "some people say" ploy. n/t

[Martin Eden]

67. you summed it up well

"Some say" is a sneaky and dishonest way to misrepresent an opponent who is not named but clearly the target.

[delrem]

5. So now it's demonstrated where that faux meme originates from. nt

[whatchamacallit]

7. People are getting played

It's too bad they refuse to see it.

[bigtree]

13. is what she said untrue?

...or is it just that it shouldn't be directed at Sanders?

It's not as if there aren't others in this political debate over race blurring the lines between economics and racism. I welcome a broader debate on the subject - while some may view that debate as more of an affront than an opportunity to properly defining these issues and how they relate to the broader public discussion.

[whatchamacallit]

19. The validity of her statement is not in question

Its cynical use to mischaracterize Sanders' position, and keep the meme alive, is.

[noiretextatique]

20. bernie sanders was protesting housing discrimination

long before clinton was a goldwater girl. I too welcome an honest discussion, because let's be honest: there is no debate, except a manufactured one. the only people who believe black lives do not matter are republicons.

[bigtree]

24. there is actually a need to openly discuss these issues

...and candidates should welcome the opportunity to state where they stand in this campaign.

[demmiblue]

15. Slimy tactics.

2008 redux.

I haven't seen anyone make that argument.

[LondonReign2]

70. +1. Another integrity free campaign from Clinton gearing up

[ibegurpard]

17. Who is saying racism is a result of economic inequality Hillary?

You better be able to back that shit up.
NO ONE has been saying racism is caused by economic inequality.

[Adrahil]

25. A basic knowledge of Marxist and socialist thought will inform you.

Some examples:

http://socialistworker.org/2002-2/431/431_08_Racism.shtml

http://www.socialismtoday.org/33/slavery33.html

http://isreview.org/issues/26/roots_of_racism.shtml

http://academic.evergreen.edu/b/bohmerp/marxracism.htm

Here's a good description of how socialist thought has related to racism and Cornel West's attempts to recast racism in the Democratic Socialist movement (his ideas have not been widely adopted yet.... socialism still struggles with too narrowly engaging racism as a consequence of class exploitation):
http://www.chicagodsa.org/CornelWest.html

Just a few examples. There are a LOT more. It's pretty much a consequence of Marx's Base and Superstructure model.

If you want to make the argument that this is not what Bernie thinks, then make the case. I suspect his position is more nuanced, but idea is very deeply rooted in Bernie's philosophical foundation.

[ibegurpard]

26. Are you calling Bernie Sanders a Marxist?

For fucking real???

[Adrahil]

29. <sigh> Read below please.

He is Democratic Socialist. Democratic Socialists like him, and Cornel West DO call on Marx as the basis for their criticism of capitalism, though they do not embrace communism. Hell, my wife is an academic who proudly claims she adopts Marxist criticisms of capitalism.

In short, ANYONE who is a Democratic Socialist is implicitly adopting a critique of capitalism heavily based on Marxist theory.

[winter is coming]

30. Aren't all those commie-types the same?

[ibegurpard]

33. I don't think Hillary was going for the McCarthy angle

But this poster sure was.

[yallerdawg]

22. What Chris Rock says.

From a 1999 routine:

"There ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me. None of you. None of you would change places with me, and I'm rich!"

The knock on Senator Sanders (I-VT) is he still couches economic inequality as a solution to racial inequality when we know in America, race is about a whole lot more than financial opportunity. He represents a state that has fewer blacks in his constituency than most black neighborhoods in other Democratic states. Where blacks are the backbone of the Democratic Party, and have been since the 'sixties, Sanders has rejected the Democratic Party repeatedly, adhering to his democratic socialism (as practiced in really white northern Scandinavian European countries).

Perception is everything. Unless Sanders can turn this perception around, he will not attract rank-and-file Democrats.

[ibegurpard]

23. touting economic ideas as a solution to racism

Is not even in the same fucking ballpark as stating racism is CAUSED by economic inequality. Clinton better clarify her remarks or she's going to be called an outright LIAR.

[yallerdawg]

39. What are you calling a lie?

"...there are some who say, 'Well racism is a result of economic inequality.' I don't believe that."

That some say this or she really does believe it?

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. Please tell me the difference? It seems ...

To be a distinction without a difference.

[ibegurpard]

44. She stated some believe racism is CAUSED by economic inequality

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on a misstatement but NO ONE has been saying racism is caused by economic inequality. She can make the argument that some people have been trying to use economic solutions to attack racism (which is debatable) but no one has been claiming what she just stated. If people want to double down on this statement they are only going to reinforce that she is lying instead of misspeaking.

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. Why would anyone use economic solutions ...

to attack racism, if economic injustice is not a cause of racism?

[ibegurpard]

49. you are parsing words to try to defend her

These statements are not interchangeable:
"Racism is caused by inequality" (false statement and what she is saying "someone" said)
"Racism can be addressed by economic solutions" (questionable statement and arguably attributable to "someone" and NOT what she said).


The statement that racism is caused by economic inequality means that anyone on an unequal economic. Footing can be a racist...can poor black people be racist? I think you know the answer to that is no.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. No ... I'm trying to figure out what you are saying ...

And Yes ... a Black person can act in furtherance of racism.

[ibegurpard]

51. how can someone who is not part of the institutional power structure

Be a racist?

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. By doing things in furtherance of racism ...

E.g., the Black cop that racially profiles, the Black banker/insurance woman that applies discriminatory underwriting standards.

[ibegurpard]

60. that statement

Flies in the face of any Black scholarly thought I have ever encountered.
http://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/question/march09/index.htm

[1StrongBlackMan]

62. The writer of the piece you link to holds a minority opinion among academics ...

which answers "Yes" to the question "Can Black people act racist towards white people."

A vastly minority opinion judging by the weight of academic publishing.

[ibegurpard]

66. I know it

I have never heard of any Black academic thought that states black people can be racist. Is this is an idea that is being debated in the Black community?

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. Not that I am aware of ...

and I spend a fair amount of time reading anti-racist and academic social science work on the topic of racism.

I am aware of "post-racial" Black and white academics advancing this idea ... and getting slammed because their conclusions are not supported by the body of the research. I think many of these writers suffer from the "money game" ... i.e., their writings reflect they funders' opinion.

[uponit7771]

77. +1

[Trajan]

31. Strawman ...

Racism isn't a 'result' of economic inequality .. It is a concurrent trait, that, taken together, form the larger notion of 'inequality' ...

Racism exists because people hate the 'other' ... Racism exists because it is taught as a social norm ...

One CAN say > Economic Inequality in non-white communities is probably due to racism.

One CAN say > Social Inequality in non-white communities is probably due to racism.

One CANNOT say > Racism in non-white communities is probably due to Economic Inequality.


Yet more mincing of the word salad that forms most political discourse ...

[ibegurpard]

34. it was either a misstatement on her part

Or a deliberate lie. We're going to need a clarification.

[Zorra]

35. All bling, no game. nt

[Prism]

36. She is deliberately misrepresenting Sanders

Huh. Hillary Clinton cynically exploiting racial issues. This is my surprised face.

No one said economic inequality causes racism. What has been asserted is that economic equality is one prong in a multi-front war to end racism. Economic equality will empower oppressed communities. It will not end institutional discrimination, but it will lend some tools in the fight against it.

Jesus H. This is so grimly dishonest.

I really do not like this person.

[beam me up scottie]

74. ^^^this^^^

She's not the only one being dishonest, a quick read through of this thread shows some of her fans are still pushing the same meme.

[angrychair]

37. Not the complete picture

HRC is attempting to slant the topic in her favor and doing it poorly.
In my opinion, racism toward people of color and slavery itself have there roots in the belief that one group of people are better than another. Since that belief is false, that belief alone will not allow you to subjugate and marginalize another group of people. To do that you have to effect their ability to access resources and control the narrative. Systematic dominance at an institutional level. The only way to maintain that level of control, generational, is to ensure that other group remains challenged and struggling both economically and educationally. So while the root cause of racism is not economics, it is a significant factor in how it is maintained.

[Smarmie Doofus]

73. Kick for your OWN slant.

Provocative.

And for your post script: gOP.

Really and truly. Nothing "grand".

[Smarmie Doofus]

40. Every presidential election since '64 has been largely about race.

This one is and will be also.

What bothers the establishment ( like Clinton) is that Sanders is ALSO making ( for the first time) an issue of class and income inequality.

Clinton and the rest know how to play the race game. They've got it down to an art form.

They have NO IDEA what to say about class and income inequality.

[bigtree]

43. that's the impression I get from this

...one candidate makes a good point and the others follow with their own attempts to make the same point, but distinguish themselves in some way.

The discussion from all of the candidates, so far, has been extremely awkward and often distorting of the issues in tone, substance, and target. It's not a completely worthless effort, imo, though. We need a national debate on these issues and there's some value in that debate coming from members of the white community.

What's ultimately going to make a significant difference, however, is to what degree we're listening to, and reflecting, the views of those in the black and Latino communities.

[HooptieWagon]

46. She's white, and worth $150 million.

And lived in a privilege bubble her entire life.

[still_one]

55. So? If someone points out something correct does it matter?

[still_one]

54. Economic inequality doesn't answer the question why African Americans are not treated fairly. The

most obvious examples are the abuses in the criminal justice system toward African American, however, it permeates throughout society when a cab refuses to stop for an African American fare, or "shopping while black", also known as consumer racial profiling, and many more examples that have nothing to do with economic inequality

[ibegurpard]

56. No one is disputing this

Who out there is the "someone" that Hillary is stating says all of those things you just mentioned are CAUSED by economic inequality?

[still_one]

59. ok, though I think republicans would take a different view on the subject, and say there is "no

racial inequality anymore"

Incidentally, I believe economic inequality is caused by racism. African Americans are not treated the same way in the work place either compared to other demographics.

[ibegurpard]

61. in my opinion

Racism is most definitely one of the major reasons for economic inequality. As is sexism. Purely economic solutions will never solve the issue of racism. They can give people more power but I don't that many can seriously argue that President Obama (arguably the most powerful man in the world) is not subject to racism.

[Armstead]

57. True. But if a person doesn't have the cab fare to begin with, it's a moot point

It's not an either/or. The two issues have different aspects, but they are also linked in many ways.

[still_one]

63. Yes, and my wording was typed wrong, I meant economics inequality, is one symptom of racial

inequality

[MellowDem]

64. What can government do to end racism?

Education is a big one, desegregation as well, but we are as segregated as ever.

Most stereotypes that drive racial animosity are a result of continued segregation and inequality.

Our economic system is set up in such a way that those already at the bottom can't climb up. Our economy encourages tribalism and segregation. None of Clinton's policies will change that. They'll reinforce it.

Racial bigotry will never end as long as racial inequalities persist and our society remains segregated, those aren't the only two solutions but they're necessary parts of any solution. They're also things government has some say in.

Racism won't be an issue when skin color matters as much as eye color in society.

No politician will seriously discuss how to end segregation driven by market forces. I think Sanders policies are the most likely to fight some of those market forces and dampen some of the inequality, but there is no topic that will be discussed on the government's role in desegregating the country and erasing racial gaps.

IMHO.

[CanadaexPat]

65. It's about equating 'hard-working' with white.

[sadoldgirl]

68. Please Mrs. Secretary

When you claim "some say" it sounds like "people
believe","I heard it said",etc. LINK,please!
I have been told that you are a fighter, then do
the sparring honestly.

[Agony]

69. fuck the "some people say" innuendo bullshit

this is why Hilary is not leadership material.

assuming cnn reported this straight up...

[Ken Burch]

72. Nobody ever said you could end it just by creating more jobs and getting more kids into college.

But it does go without saying that you can't solve it WITHOUT making economic equality a priority. A country where the politicians defer to corporate power can't be a country where institutional racism is brought to an end.

[djean111]

78. Institutional racism can be legislated away, but racism cannot.

IMO Hillary is just saying what she believes people want to hear.
And "some say" is a cheap reporter's trick.