Question inspired by Le Taz Hot.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

Honest question: what would the national media reaction be if the Tea Party, had a conference call for Donald Trump and achieved 1% of the turnout Bernie is going to have tonight at the conference call? For example, what if the Tea Party got close to 1,000 house parties tonight?

[daleanime]

1. We would hear about it....

until after the election was over. What kind of ratio is used by the MSM? 1,000 progressives to 1 teabagger? 10,000 to 1?

So glad that I pull the plug on my TV, it now services as a monitor.

[tularetom]

2. Chris Matthews would have an orgasm right on camera

And babble for half an hour about "real Amurkans".

[BainsBane]

3. Are you actually saying the Tea Party isn't as organized or effective as

Sanders supporters?

House parties aren't the only way to get things done. However the Tea Party has organized, they have been very effective. They have got congress full of their people and have a few presidential candidates, one of whom has a high chance of getting the nomination. If Sanders supporters built a movement around issues rather than a man and organized accordingly, that might have some actual impact. The problem is that issue after issue gets tossed aside in favor of one politician. The Tea Party cares about their agenda. They don't subsume it all for one person.

[djean111]

6. The Tea Party was/is funded by the Kochs.

Just Google who funded the Tea Party. It was carefully crafted to advance the Kochs' and other RWers' agenda. Helped immensely by Faux. I wouldn't say that Sanders' supporters have built a movement around Sanders so much as they have built a movement around the issues Sanders represents. On the other hand, I feel that a lot of Hillary supporters have coalesced around Hillary the person. As a Sanders supporter, I would have been just as happy with Liz Warren.

I think a problem for some here is that issue after issue, and the stances and perceived actions on behalf of those issues, are not met with trust when it comes to Hillary.

But hey, this is what primaries are for, right?

[BainsBane]

10. I don't think you're looking with a clear eye at that

True about the Kochs, but funding alone doesn't explain that movement. They have a lot of grassroots support. They have been relentless is applying pressure on the GOP. They turn up to events, work at the LOCAL level. People here don't get how crucial that is. The Tea Party influence filtered up quickly from the local to the national. People here focus almost exclusively on the national, which is the most difficult to influence.

I think you are simply wrong about support for Sanders as an individual. I explain that in other post in this subthread, but the key evidence is how no criticism of Sanders is accepted. Even other Sanders supporters who raise issues are attacked and excluded from the fold.

Sadly, it is what primaries are, but I think that is why we achieve so little of what we hope for. When Hillary advances a position that is leftist, people call her a liar, even when it is entirely consistent with her previous positions. I find it sad that in nearly every situation, issue after issue means less than the politician. I find that sad, and I find it the opposite of principled. Yes, I understand that people will see some as more credible than others. That is part of how we make political decisions and very much figures into my own choice to support Clinton over Sanders. But the issues should come first. They do not.

[djean111]

12. The Tea Party is ginned up on lies, and they vote against their own interests.

"Keep your government hands off my Medicare" - while voting for those who would get rid of Medicare. The movement was funded and crafted by billionaires with a mission. The Tea Party would never been successful if those "grassroots" were on their own, with no big money behind them. Being bused from location to location, coached on what to yell, how to vote. Totally NOT grassroots. Appealing to the lowest common denominators, manipulated by social issues while the economic issues oozed in behind their backs.

And any breath of criticism about Hillary is labeled as hate and bashing. Yes, the issues come first. I don't think anyone actually hates Hillary at all. Her past deeds, her perceived stance on issues - the "evolving" - the trust is not there, it was not there the last time she ran.

[artislife]

19. The cult of personality argument

I swear, it is 2008 all over again. I remember being beaten over the head by H supporters with that phrase again and again. So funny they use it. I, like you, was hoping Warren would jump in because of what she has been fighting for. The fact that the person most by her side during that jumped in instead, told me she really didn't want to be president. But she would firmly help him in his presidency to further their same goals.


It is the message. It is completely the message.

[djean111]

20. This is how much this is not a personality thing - if Liz Warren endorsed Hillary tomorrow,

I would just assume (actually, an HRC supporter once said OF COURSE Liz would endorse Hillary, she is a DEM!) that Liz was doing the Dem thing, and I would not even hesitate to continue supporting Bernie. Because issues and policies, and yeah, I am not a purist, that must suck when it comes back to bite people who fling it.
Also, no one gets to decide who I support, but me.

[artislife]

21. Exactly

I have braced myself that Warren may endorse Bernie, but as the time goes by....I think she may not. However, I want someone like Bernie in the White House. And I get to decide who I support, too!

[tularetom]

7. Actually that isn't the case

It sounds like you are calling Sanders supporters a cult of personality. Most of the people I know are supporting him because he is the only one who has made any specific proposals instead of blathering on in platitudes or generalities.

I'm sure that all the candidates are in favor of "good" and opposed to "evil", but I'd like to hear what they actually propose to do about some issues I care about. Like TPP, Keystone Pipeline, the Iran deal, Social Security, health care, etc. etc.

[Armstead]

8. Blather

"If Sanders supporters built a movement around issues rather than a man and organized accordingly, that might have some actual impact."

Your analysis is totally ass backward.

Sanders is a conduit for a much bigger desire (a mild word) to drive the political system to actually address the basic destruction of broadly based economic opportunity and the concentration of wealth and power into the hands of an elite of Corporate Monopolies, Wall St. Sharks and Wealthy Oligarchs.

Sanders is great, but this is not a cult of personality, as you imply. Just the opposite. It is a huge hunger for politicians who are not in the elite bubble of beltway/corporate insiders.

[BainsBane]

9. If that were true

Why has issue after issue been declared less important than Sanders? Why have Black Lives Matter been denounced as a Koch brothers plot? Why do people make excuses for the Super Pacs and PACS formed to support him. Why do they claim he doesn't have to pay his workers the wages he insists should private companies should have to pay? Why do too many of his supporters adopt NRA talking points about "exploiting tragedy" to defend his votes against gun control? Why do they uphold the interests of corporate gun manufacturers over citizens, as in the case of the lawsuit by the Sandyhook families?
Why do they continually insist that he should not be criticized?

No, it has become all about him, and anyone who as much as suggests there are ways to improve his appeal is banned from the Sanders group and called a Clinton supporter. It is not just on DU. I've seen the same thing on Twitter.

[Armstead]

11. When he gets attacked, he gets defended...Just like any other candidate

And the tone of the defenses often reflects the tone of the attacks. Especially when supporters feel like something is a cheap shot, or misrepresents the truth about him.

Just like the supporters of Hillary or any other candidate defend their candidate.

[BainsBane]

13. No, not comparable

Firstly, the HRC group doesn't ban Hillary supporters who aren't loyal enough, who question tactics, for example.
They don't call leftist activists Koch Brothers plots. They don't look for signs of crytpic Sanderism behind every corner. That whole outrage that black voters questioning what Sanders AND other candidates will do for their community constitutes a meme was entirely the creation of Sanders supporters.

O'Malley supporters didn't take to Twitter after Netroots and seek to discredit Black Lives Matters. They didn't tell black folks what was good for them, that O'Malley had done more for them than they themselves ever would, that kind of shit. All that is unique to the Sanders supporters.

[Armstead]

14. If the whole race issue had not been raised in....

such a confrontational "Sanders doesn't care about racial issues and his supporters are myopic," that whole debate might have a different tone.

I'm the first to agree that Sanders needed to learn how to articulate that better, and understand why it is such a combustible issue at this point. But the nature of the attacks on him put a sour taste in the mouth.

[ibegurpard]

16. yup it was a disingenuous gotcha

Using a life or death issue for many many people.

[daybranch]

22. yep again

He simply states what we progressive activists have known for a longtime and millenials now recognize due to their concerns over their present and future economic circumstances. At last we are moving the party away from 3rd way democratic philosophy and back to the ideals of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. We wanted more than a centrist and we have pushed him to the left and we certainly do not want a regressive like Hillary. Any attempts for us to tone down our rhetoric on the internet is just an attempt to restrict our free speech as if Hillary does not get air time all the time in the older forms of Media owned by her supporters. I realize there is a huge money pot already arrayed against Bernie's ideas but volunteers and money are fungible and we are recruiting volunteers who seem happy with Bernie's message. His message actually does the recruiting, we just take their names and schedule them to do their own recruiting at our next canvass or just at likely one they organize, This is truly Grass roots.

[ibegurpard]

15. if you think it's only about Bernie

You are sadly mistaken. It's a combination of his talking about issues people care about and a no bullshit style.

[BainsBane]

18. I can only judge by how his supporters present the campaign.

How they respond to criticisms and what they say about issues when presented with contradictions. In every case, Bernie takes precedence.

Also the fact that it is organized around a candidate rather than building a broader coalition based on issues means that it is limited to the lifespan of Sanders candidacy. The Tea Party is a far more enduring movement. Note that no individual politician is associated with them. The politicians have to meet their expectations, not the other way around.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

23. I take your point, in part.

Like any campaign, Bernie has boosters who get emotional in their reactions, and not always courteously. That is not to say that there aren't millions of people of good will who do support Bernie.

Every candidate has warts, including two great ones: FDR and Barack Obama. Candidate backers should obey three principles in my view: 1) stay courteous; 2) stay honest; and 3) always be talking to those who want to get involved already or are looking for a candidate. I don't always meet those standards, but I aspire to them!

Having said all that, I noted more than a few Bernie supporters who criticized Bernie about the way he handled the NN incident, including me. I think he has responded very well since then.

As to campaign vs. movement, we already had a movement around Bernie's principles: Occupy Wall Street. Unfortunately it was squelched by Homeland Security and police brutality. But the progressive energy behind it did not die.

In my hometown, Bernie supporters are developing a down ballot plan for our county and we are also reaching out for an analogous state wide plan. We are also planning for 2017, to look at Party leadership positions and to create a permanent organization to promote grass roots recruitment and support for progressive candidates.

I hope this is good information for you. I would be happy to discuss it further offline or online if you are interested.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

17. My OP was directed to the origin

of the Tea Party. It was a total astro-turf deal ginned up by the Koch brothers and Fox news. Without billionaire support, the Tea Party would not have happened.

I disagree with your point about a lack of issues in the Sanders movement. Whenever I listen to a Sanders speech, I here him discuss the most important issues throughout his speech. I have not seen him toss any important issue aside.

[corkhead]

4. 5 teabaggers meeting at a Denny's was national news, if you count NPR as "news"

[Snotcicles]

5. Not only the national media, but fellow Conservatives would be rallying to his support.

Unlike so called Liberals.