Holder Contemp Issue = AWESOME OPPORTUNITY FOR MAJOR PUBLIC BACKFIRE AGAINST THE REPUKES !

[RBInMaine]

I love it ! IF the AG and Prez and ALL DEM LEADERS get in front of the cameras NONSTOP and talk and talk and talk in TOUGH TERMS about how RIDICULOUS, EXTREME, and POLITICALLY MOTIVATED this is, I see it as a major BACKFIRE that will make these RePUKES look like ridiculous extremists who care much more about election year nonsense than passing jobs bills, etc.

[clang1]

1. Hell yes it is n/t

[leftynyc]

2. I think reminding everyone

of how the pubs treated Bill Clinton is also a good idea. That also backfired in a huge way during the midterms in 1998. They just cannot handle a Democrat in the White House.

[Savannahmann]

3. Really? You see opportunity?

Here is what I see. I see Issa going to the courts to compel Holder and President Obama to turn over the documents. I see it bouncing it's way up the court levels in an expedited manner. I see more and more news coverage as it does.

I see it being in the Appeals court level, looking to wards the Supreme Court about October or so. I see the American people informed of this step by step in the papers and on the nightly news. I see Lawyers for the Republicans maintaining that the Nixon precedent clearly shows that this is a violation of the Executive Privilege principle.

I see the American People being told week after week, month after month, that President Obama is acting like Nixon. I've already seen Drudge photoshop President Obama's eyes into Nixon's face. I see us losing the election because we were stupid in how we handled this mess. I see us potentially losing even the Senate as this link between Obama and Nixon is made on hundreds of campaign commercials and talk radio and TV News.

But you see opportunity. Good. Tell me how John the undecided voter will see through this. Tell me how weeks and months of the big lie Obama = Nixon won't affect anyone. I'm glad you love it. Because this is a huge disaster. It was a trap, one we walked into with our eyes open, all the while telling ourselves that Issa wouldn't dare. The Rethugs wouldn't dare. They dared. Do you think they'll stop now? Even the Rethugs that don't support it just have to stand back when asked and say "I think we should leave this to the courts. That's the proper forum for this to be played out." And we lose another voter here, and there.

[clang1]

4. You know what about the simple truth.

That is the beginning. The ****** that decided these programs were also mostly inherited just like the damn programs were. Instead of carrying their water for them, we need to dump it right back into their faces.

[Savannahmann]

5. Exactly, but we're too busy covering it up

Clang, I'm glad you see it. We screwed this up from the get go. I see this is a mill stone around our neck come Novermber.

[clang1]

6. Yes. You lay with fleas, you get fleas n/t

[OllieLotte]

7. Agreed. I think we should cut our losses. n/t

[66 dmhlt]

19. Your feigning concern is touching - but you have NO idea how Contempt of Congress works

Bottom line: It's DOA!

If the House votes for contempt charges, it will go the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, whose immediate supervisor just happens to be Eric Holder!

And there it will languish.

The myth of the "liberal media" will pay attention to this story up to the day after the vote - and then it will look for its next "Bright, Shiny Object".

(L)egislators are supposed to refer charges to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who happens to work for Holder. When Karl Rove faced a similar situation during the Bush Administration, the U.S. Attorney chose not to enforce the contempt sanctions.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/06/house-wants-to-hold-eric-holder-in-contempt.html

If the full House votes to find Holder in contempt, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia — who is employed by the Justice Department — will have to decide whether to criminally prosecute him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/fast-and-furious-scandal-obama-exerts-executive-privilege-house-panel-moves-forward-with-contempt-vote/2012/06/20/gJQAGImIqV_story.html

If the full House votes to support it, then a contempt citation could be referred to the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, an appointee of Mr. Obama's who is in Mr. Holder's chain of command.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304898704577478370452447012.html

If the measure against Holder passes the House, it will be sent to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who will convene a grand jury that would decide whether to indict Holder.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/233763-house-panel-votes-to-place-holder-in-contempt-of-congress

Bottom line: The U.S Attorney for DC will take his sweet time in deciding what exactly is the proper course of action. The media does NOT waste their time on spinning-wheels stories.

[zeemike]

8. well I agree it has been a trap all along.

But we don't have to step in it...but probably will.
We could fight back...but our leaders are too timid and still think they can play nice with the bullies.
And so while the right wingers will call Obama a communist at every opportunity the left will wring their hands over someone calling Romney a Fascist.
You can't let a bully get away with anything or they will get away with everything.

[clang1]

9. re: You can't let a bully get away with anything or they will get away with everything.

That is correct, and is what I don't get about the entire dynamic on this (or much of what the Dems do). Too many have fleas I'm afraid. On both sides.

[NoMoreWarNow]

10. no doubt the repugs will play this up as much as possible and play up the idea of a massive scandal

that's what they are best at!

I agree this has the potential to hurt Obama, he needs to be real careful here, not to be too secretive.

The whole thing is BS, IMO, but that doesn't mean the repugs can't make it seem like the worst thing since Clinton's blowjob, which of course was far worse than anything Bush ever did.

[liberalnationalist]

32. there is a massive scandal

coming, and it wont be Obama's scandal.....just wait....

[jerseyjack]

12. Regarding your first paragraph.

Issa gets to forward the complaint to the federal prosecutor. Having even half a brain, prosecutor will not forward the case to the jury or the grand jury will not indict.

At the least, that may not take place for months.

There was a similar case during the Bush II administration where the prosecutor just let it die. This was mentioned on Hartmann's program yesterday.

[Savannahmann]

15. That's not the court case I'm talking about.

The Judicial Branch rules when or if Executive Privilege is appropriate. Issa is almost certainly going to file a motion before a Federal Judge to compel the Attorney General to present the documents. No matter what the ruling is, the loser is going to appeal. Now, Issa is gong to claim that the Nixon precedent doesn't give the Administration the right to use Executive Privilege to cover up a crime.

The Administration is going to argue that this is not a crime, and that it is absolutely appropriate to use Executive Privilege. In court and on TV this battle is going to be played out.

Then the Appeals Court, possibly the entire Appeals court after the Three Judge Panel. Then the Supreme Court. The whole time the news is going to be full of Nixon/Obama references. Four and a half months of this question coming up about every week.

Then you can have the longer term debate on the propriety of the Contempt vote against Holder. If the court finds that Executive Privilege was not properly used, then a Prosecutor, probably a Romney man by then since we'll have four months of Nixon/Obama comparisons, will charge Holder.

We dropped a bowling ball, and we dropped it right on our foot. From a messaging or image standpoint. We're screwed.

[clang1]

18. re: That's not the court case I'm talking about.

Thanks for your analysis.

[sweetapogee]

31. I really don't

want to get too deep into this thing, but... no one here is even slightly concerned with the real possibility that the blue dogs might slowly, one at a time jump ship on the party to avoid being associated with a scandal. If that happens, the drip becomes a trickle, the trickle becomes, well a busted dam. I look out and see dark clouds on the horizon. Wish it were not so but there is danger in them hills. We thing the pukes are plain old stupid forgetting that politics is a full contact sport and there is a lot at stake.

I have said this before, the economy, being in the shit-can is our real problem and the pukes holding the AG in contempt and our position of resistance isn't going to do one thing to improve the unemployment figures.

[jeff47]

21. What you don't see:

Congress: 13% approval rating
Obama: 50% approval rating

It's time to go on the offensive, not repeat the mistakes of the Clinton administration.

Tell me how John the undecided voter will see through this.

"Instead of passing my American Jobs Act of super-awesomeness that will massively help the economy, Congress is conducting a witch hunt. Don't you hate those guys?".

I see it being in the Appeals court level, looking to wards the Supreme Court about October or so. I see the American people informed of this step by step in the papers and on the nightly news. I see Lawyers for the Republicans maintaining that the Nixon precedent clearly shows that this is a violation of the Executive Privilege principle.

Make sure you never, ever represent yourself in court. Your grasp of law is....poor. You also have a terrible idea of what court scheduling is like. This won't hit an appeals court before November, much less the SCOTUS.

[democrat_patriot]

23. I see the Dems linking this program to BUSH every time it's mentioned

We offered documents from the Bush term WHEN THIS PROGRAM WAS STARTED and the Republicans weren't interested.

I see the Dems saying Bush/Republicans used this tactic many many times. Why the double standard?

Anybody reading Drudge is already voting for Romney.

Republicans say "I think we leave this to the courts". I see Republicans hearing: "Dems subpoena Bush, his AG etc. for a live trial."

However I also see the MSM covering for Issa (this is GREAT for ratings).
I see the Dems running for cover.

[pwb]

24. Nonsense

What side are you on?. Your opinion is bullshit. We here all see through the repuke obstruction as bullshit. You go to Drudge? Sounds like you might favor Fox news too. That alone tells a lot about you. Sure you belong here?.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

26. I suspect that most people won't notice and/or care

The only major pitfall that I see is if some Dems start raising questions and/or criticizing the Administration about this. As I understand it, though, the contempt vote fell along party lines and the only ones pushing the issue are the Republicans (Issa) and conspiracy theorists, so most people, to the extent that they notice it at all, will probably just come to the conclusion that this is just a partisan issue/distraction led by the Republicans. It may not necessarily hurt the Republicans but it won't help them either. I would say that it's kind of hard to get worked up over something like this while the rest of us are just trying to pay our bills and take care of our families. If President Obama had a legitimate reason to assert EP for the documents, then I'm fine with it. If Issa, et. al think that there is something truly nefarious going on and want to continue to make an issue of it, well, they certainly have the means to do so.

[GeorgeGist]

27. I see the first court saying (in essence) ...

go fuck yourself Mr. Boner.

[RBInMaine]

28. Doom and gloom. Doom and gloom. Doom and gloom. Is it a syndrome? This is NONSENSE and people

will see it for what it is, IF, as I said, they get out in front, stay tough, and call it what it is. This is stupid silly horseshit and people will say so. Who the fuck cares about the nutball Drudge? Just the crazies. Clinton invoked executive privilege 14 times. Bush 6 times. Arresting Holder? Oh such BS. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. It will make the RePUKES look like absolute LUNATICS.

Many of these documents CAN NOT BY LAW BE RELEASED because they would expose undercover agents. They have already released THOUSANDS of other documents. The whole thing started under Bush. This is silly TeaNut idiocy, and that is just what it needs to be called. You are being way too pessamistic over this it. It will blow up in the RePukes' faces and make them look like the extremist wasteoid nutballs that they are.

[AlinPA]

11. The media will continue in their frenzy until the election. This hurts Obama a lot.

[maryellen99]

13. Yes

I agree. There are a lot of ignorant and racist people out there who will believe everything fox news says on this. These are people who think everything will go magically back to the way it was once Romney gets elected.

[Savannahmann]

16. I wish the Administration saw it that way

Most here are still singing the "They wouldn't dare" song. They are daring, and it's past time we woke up to the fact we are neck deep in a swamp, and the water is rising.

[RBInMaine]

29. Oh bullshit.

[HereSince1628]

14. IOW, if the dems do something they've very rarely done in 25 years...

then the outcome might be something other than the status quo.

Which is to say that even if they followed your rx, there would be a chance it would change nothing.

Without a big win guaranteed, I don't see the Dry Powder Brigade taking such risks.

[Savannahmann]

17. Messaging only works if the message resonates with the people.

What image is going to stick with the swing voters? Obama and Holder as victims of mean old Republicans? Or Obama using Nixonian tricks to prevent Congress from finding out what happened?

I know it's BS. You know it's BS. The average person doesn't know that. They're gong to get sound bite news and that's all. The Rethugs are already comparing Obama to Nixon. Do we really think that's going to change?

[NS2012]

22. Here's what I see happening.

Obama will give them the documents they need, admit his mistake, and downplay the significance of this. Some independents will find that admirable, some will not.

What are people upset about here? Dishonesty? Immorality? Those ideas can be dispatched with a little straightforwardness.

We can get past this if Obama is straight with the American people.

[HereSince1628]

25. It may not require admitting a mistake...but at least admitting F&F was high risk

It seems clear to me that the F&F gun sting was associated with big risks.

Selling functional weapons into the world of Mexican drug gangs had to be seen as having the potential to result in some people getting injured or killed by those weapons.

It's too incredible to think that was not foreseen by all the principles.

In as much as this sting went forward, I am left with the supposition that the principles found the risks acceptable compared to the benefits.

Of course, I can't know the benefits that actually accrued, but the principles know, and that means Obama knows.

I think that the straight story you want Obama to tell is one that admits the risk, places it in context (including the need to penetrate the gang networks), grieves the death of border patrol agent Brian Terry and honors him as one of many who have died in the drug war.

If Americans appreciate anything after a decade of war in the sandlands of SW Asia, it is that those fighting the war sometimes die.

[NS2012]

34. Yup.

I agree with that.

This is just speculation though.

[RBInMaine]

30. This Holder thing is total and complete BS and everyone knows it. Please, quit the handwringing.

[NS2012]

20. I'm loving that Congress finally needs something from Obama,

and Obama isn't giving it to them. It gives them a little taste of their own medicine.

[liberalnationalist]

33. replace

the word Congress with Facist Right Wing Pigs and I'll agree with you.