Heckler/disruptor Patrisse Cullors appoints herself the spokesperson of black people

[brentspeak]

Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

What an a$$head.

Black people are, like all people, extremely diverse. Then along comes Patrisse Cullors who acts like she is an entire race's spokesperson on who an entire diverse group will vote for. Then, to boot, she vows to shut down the democratic process every chance she gets.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/blacklivesmatter-co-founder-warns-presidential-candidates-we-will-shut-down-every-single-debate/comments/#disqus

#BlackLivesMatter co-founder warns presidential candidates: ‘We will shut down every single debate’

Arturo Garcia
18 Jul 2015 at 18:27 ET

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors criticized both Sen. Bernie Sanders and ex-Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley after Saturday’s protest at the Netroots Nation progressive conference.

“He couldn’t take 15 more minutes of the heat,” Cullors said of Sanders in an interview on This Week in Blackness, making reference to the senator ending his appearance as demonstrators at the event walked out en masse.

snip

“No more skirting around the issues,” Cullor said. “We will shut down every single debate.” (brentspeak: The "issues"? You didn't even let him speak)

snip

But following the event, Cullors said Sanders and other presidential hopefuls need to make black communities feel like they are not being “sold something.”

“If you want our vote, you are going to have to do way more work,” she said.

[randys1]

1. Wow, you sure are pissed at this person.

Who the hell does she think she is!

[Skittles]

2. there's plenty of these self-appointed spokesfolk on DU too

NO ONE LIKES TO BE STEREOTYPED - *NO ONE*

[m-lekktor]

4. I was thinking the same thing. they say "we" instead of "I". nt

[Aerows]

6. I'm appointing myself to the official

position of "OMG will it quit freaking raining, already" committee. I passed by a little old man building a boat on my way home, and some animals were lining up two by two.

[Skittles]

7. make sure you inform the dinosaurs

damn, I can't seem to enlarge....they are saying OH CRAP WAS THAT TODAY?

[Aerows]

9. That's hilarious

Poor things ... LOL.

[2banon]

146. LOL! n/t

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. First, she is a protester, and I think we should allow people of color to decide if she is out of

line.

[randys1]

8. Seems to me this Black Woman is pissing off somebody...wonder who

[brentspeak]

11. I don't care if she were a Yellow Hermaphrodite

It's arrogance for any one person or even a large group to claim spokesperson-like status for an entire race.

And it's pretty damn stupid for anyone to agree with or defend that person's or group's self-appointed stupidity.

[Agnosticsherbet]

16. I think that is for her community to decide, as it alwas has been, rather than people

who are not part of that community.

If she has the qualities, the passion, the energy, and the will to lead, black communities will follow. If not, they will let her know.

People who are not part of that community, have no right to make that decision for them.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

53. So then let them make that decision. She's run for nothing and represents nobody.

nm

[Agnosticsherbet]

66. Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X were leaders who stepped forward

and were accepted. They didn't run.

Might want to read some good histories.

I get that you are incensed that this woman of color stood up and spoke for other women of color who were shot dead in the streets or were murdered in police custody.

Sander's and O'Malley will either listen and begin to speak for people of color, in fact both of them have already said something since the protest.

IF they don't they will lose miserably, and they will deserve to lose.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

67. Yep, I'm totally mad because I like black women being killed.

I'm glad you figured out the code.

[Agnosticsherbet]

71. No, I think you are upset becasue neither Sanders nor O'Malley came off looking so good.

According to MSNBC, both men, and Clinton, have reached out to BLACKLIVESMATTER, and will be working to appeal to a constitency that will be necessary if any one of them has a a hope of being nominated.

People of color are not a cinstituency that can be taken for granted, and the same should be said for Obama's entire coalition of voters.

[JDPriestly]

105. Here is a really good presentation of the BLM's case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017280207

I could actually understand what this man said. I really couldn't follow the speech at the demonstration. A lot of the impact and even the sound was unclear to me.

This other speech was given with enough time to get the message across. Too bad the organizers did not give BLM adequate time for their presentation, and the candidates adequate notice and time to watch it and respond to it.

The spontaneity aspect of the demonstration did not work.

It is true that Black issues have been given little more than lip service actually since the Johnson administration, but that is not the fault of the candidates now running. They need to be given the chance to hear a well presented, calmly and clearly spoken message by BLM and other Black groups and then they need to be permitted to respond accordingly.

The problem lies with the organizers of Netroots Nation and their failure to give the right time to the BLM group.

[Agnosticsherbet]

119. I agee that Netroots failed to plan well.

[randys1]

118. Uh huh

[Skittles]

10. no other opinions allowed?

[KittyWampus]

5. I've seen some really nuanced commentary about all this from some Sanders supporters

and others here on DU. Your added commentary isn't a part of that.

[sufrommich]

14. It's getting less and less nuanced no matter how many

times the jaw dropping tone deafness is explained.

[seveneyes]

12. She is no more special than any one of us

There will be no shutting down of debates no matter how important somebody thinks they are.

[BooScout]

13. Arrogant?

The nerve of that uppity woman!

[brentspeak]

15. Not uppity. Just arrogant.

Same qualification as any self-appointed spokesperson to come down the pike since the dawn of civilization.

[BooScout]

17. So the Bernie Revolution spokesperson is arrogant too?

Cool!

[brentspeak]

21. If he speaks for the "Bernie Revolution" group

he isn't, since he was apparently appointed to or approved for that particular role.

If Cullors claims to speak on behalf of her #blacklivesmatter group, then that is appropriate, since she was appointed or approved for her particular role.

But when she claims to speak on behalf of the black electorate in general, she's full of crap.

[Raine1967]

65. You are aware she was speaking on behalf of a group she formed, right?

She was speaking on behalf of BLM.

[brentspeak]

68. "“If you want our vote, you are going to have to do way more work,” she said."

She was referring to black people's votes in general, not to BLM group members' votes.

[Agnosticsherbet]

18. Who appointed your as a spokesman for who should or should not lead black people in America?

Just wondering.

[Peregrine Took]

24. We need to be in lockstep on General Election Day - I know that.

Identity crises or not.

[Agnosticsherbet]

33. It is the job of each of the candidates to convince all of us that he or she is our representative

in the Executive Branch.

I am opposed to anyone being in lockstep.

We are early in that process, and I look forward to vigorous debate. #BLACKLIVESMATTER, Progressives, far left liberals (that's me), liberals, centrists, and even Conservadems should be able to address the applicants.

[Prism]

19. Before this train of thought leaves the station

I'd just like to note the bridge is out up ahead.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

20. Not helpful. nt

[truebrit71]

121. I said the same in a thread about 'white tears' and was told to STFU...

IMHO OP is on point.

Unless you are saying that the BLM protest at an event held for their allies wasn't helpful, in which case I'd doubly agree with you...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

122. Here's a tweet I just saw...

Elon James White
?@elonjames

Critiquing #BLM activists about how they protest is like telling someone in a burning building that they're screaming for help wrong.

[truebrit71]

123. No, what the BLM did was scream at the firemen that they're not putting the fire out right...

...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

126. Then maybe here's a better tweet for you.

https://twitter.com/AFLCIO/status/623319268155891712

AFL-CIO
?@AFLCIO

We stand with #BlackRoots. Presidential Candidates Need to Recognize #BlackLivesMatter http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Other-News/Presidential-Candidates-Need-to-Recognize-that-BlackLivesMatter …

[truebrit71]

131. Still doesn't undo the fact that they attacked their allies...

...which is really unfortunate...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

134. Seems like it doesn't bother the AFL-CIO, and they think it was the right thing to do. nt

[truebrit71]

135. Pretty sure the AFL-CIO weren't on stage, and aren't running for President...

...Still doesn't get around the fact that BLM attacked their allies, and threatened to continue to do so...

[Cali_Democrat]

22. LOL!

Somebody's mad.

[Peregrine Took]

23. She could have had that audience standing and cheering in support of BLM instead

she alienated many/most of them plus the mainstream audience acting in an immature and boorish way.

[BillZBubb]

28. Exactly. Her message isn't the problem, it is the choice of delivery.

In politics you don't attack your natural allies in a fight. The Democratic candidates are all on BLM's side but to help they have to win an election.

[Skittles]

31. a point missed by a GREAT number of DUers

[840high]

59. Not missed - just ignored.

[Skittles]

62. no, I really think it is missed

[PowerToThePeople]

25. Unrec

Self delete is your friend here.

[enough]

26. It will be interesting as the idea of "way more work" becomes more defined as time goes on.

We should all be thinking about what kind of work needs to be done to bring change. And especially listening to those closest to the life-and death realities about what kind of work needs to be done. Not just adopting the right slogan, certainly.

[scarletwoman]

27. I think it's highly commendable - and a credit to our race, I might add - that white people are so

willing to offer their constructive critiscism to those black people so they can learn how choose good leaders.

We are so selfless and giving and wise, it just brings tears to my eyes.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. Snicker.

We passed doubling down, tripling down is long gone, quadrupling down is in the rear view mirror, and we're on to quintupling down.

[scarletwoman]

34. My jaw has dropped so far that it's digging furrows in my floor - and I'm not enjoying that at all.

The parade of butthurt so-called "progressives" that has marched through this forum since Saturday has done such a number on my head, I may never recover.

[sufrommich]

32. I would laugh, but this went from mildly amusing to

WTF a long time ago.

[scarletwoman]

40. Honestly I am gobsmacked - and that doesn't really begin to cover it.

I had so hoped for better from my fellow Bernie supporters. But I just keep seeing major fail after major fail.

Not that I have any intention of giving up on Bernie, but if his supporters can't get their heads straight on this issue, it diminishes my hopes greatly.

[myrna minx]

141. SW - what a refuge you are! I'm just sickened by the behavior of some of our fellow supporters as well.

We are at the beginning of a new civil rights movement. Some that are often quoting MLK in support of Sanders are now trashing the new generation of freedom riders because they loudly interrupted a speech to gain attention of an ally about matters of live and death.

If this was Occupy Wall Street interrupting a speech, (of which I'm a huge supporter - despite the nasty ridicule they received by many here), imagine the cheers.

It's wonderful to see you, my dear friend. I hope to get together with you again one day. By the by, I used gobsmacked in a post too - great Minnesota minds and all.

[scarletwoman]

142. Oh, Myrna!!!! I can barely begin to tell you how happy I am to see you!!!

I know you get it - and OMG, what a relief after some of the crazy crap I've been reading since Saturday!

It's been heartbreaking, reading some of the stuff being posted by DUers whom I've appreciated for years and years, just going totally off the rails on this one. Failing the test. Shields up, walls up, armor on - and for what???

Yeah, gobsmacked is the very least I can say about it. My gawd, the blind spots, the self-protection, the shut-down of human empathy. Why the hell would our black sisters and brothers want anything the hell to do with us if this is how we react to THEIR viscerally expressed truth.

Thanks so much for responding, you've brightened my day more than you can know. Yes, we must definitely meet again some day - if for no other reason than affording me the opportunity of giving you a ginormous hug.

[myrna minx]

145. My dear friend - I'm glad to see you!

You know what a Minnesota commie I am. Ha.

I guess to some of the MELTDOWN folks - the Code Pink, OWS et al tactics are all ok (all I support! even when it was ridiculed here by the more "sensible" among us) but BLM trying to gain the attention of Democratic Presidential nominees to address issues of life and death is enough to bring about white liberal meltdown.

I'm a white, feminist, economic justice warrior AND a Bernie Sanders supporter and I get it! You get it. Why is this such a full on white liberal meltdown? People of Color are being killed - and the new Freedom Riders want our Presidential candidates to get off stump speeches and acknowledge this fact - out loud, in front of cameras and in public.

People are dying - yell LOUDER until someone listens.

They are seeking VALIDATION of their concerns from the Democratic Party that PoC have SUPPORTED for DECADES.

Again - I'm a Bernie Economic Justice Gal! but my god -those who don't *SEE* the CIVIL RIGHTS REVOLUTION RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU BLOWS MY MIND.

[BillZBubb]

35. If someone is doing something counterproductive to their stated goals,

they should be called on it. I don't care if they are blue, purple, pink, brown.

BLM's tactics were pathetic in this case. If that makes you weep, too bad.

[scarletwoman]

38. Please, contact BLM as soon as soon as possible and correct their ways!

You know they want to hear what white people think of their tactics! They are hungry for our wisdom and guidance!

You are being selfish if you don't help them out and teach them what you know!

[BillZBubb]

41. I think they've heard plenty about what white people think of their tactics.

And as their movement fades into oblivion because of them, they'll learn.

You are trying so hard to make this a racial thing. That is something racists do.

In politics, you don't attack your natural allies. If you do, you are soon out in the cold. It has nothing to do with race.

[scarletwoman]

47. "In politics, you don't attack your natural allies." Doesn't seem to be stopping many whites from

putting down and negating what the black community wants to talk about.

If you think Sanders can win the nomination - much less the election - without AA voters, please spell it out.

But fine, don't bother listening to them. Let's see how well that works. Why the hell should THEY think of US as their "allies" if we won't listen to their heartfelt grief and anger about what's been happening to their people for decades and decades?

What they get instead is a bunch of whiny white liberals giving them shit because they fucking DARED to interrupt the Great White Savior of the Black Folk and demand that he LISTEN to them instead of talk at them! You know, if you're really someone's friend, you'll shut up and let that friend talk as much as she needs to when she's got a big problem to get off her chest. Big problems like her family members being murdered.

Why the hell would they think of us as "natural allies" after these last couple of days of pathetic white whining? We're not listening at all.

[BillZBubb]

73. What a load of emotional hooey.

If those BLM loudmouths don't have the political smarts to understand who their enemies are and who are their friends, they have zero chance of success. In fact they'll make matters worse.

Politics, and successful change of policy, requires an intelligent use of allies and well thought out actions against foes. BLM doesn't seem to understand this basic fact.

If you want to make this a racial thing, that's your problem. Every progressive is aware of BLM's position and is more than willing to fight for meaningful change. We don't need to hear some impolite, self-appointed spokesperson rant.

Those activists were attacking Democrats and not republicans. The republicans are the roadblock. The BLM stunt was foolish but it did succeed in getting their would be allies to now fight amongst themselves. Brilliant! Are you listening?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

85. Then again, most people don't keep rude friends around.

If a friend invites you over to talk, and talks over you, berating you, well it's up to you and your sense of dignity, but I'm out the door at that point.

[scarletwoman]

88. My friend invites me over because she knows I'm working on my own start-up business,

so being a friend, she figures she'll give me a chance to try out my sales pitch and invites some of her other friends to show up, too.

As it happens, among those other friends of my friend, are several who've just lost a sister, a brother, a child, a cousin. They are carrying a lot of heavy grief and pain, they aren't much interested in my sales pitch for my start-up.

The friend who invited me, who is also friends with these other guests, figures that the truly deeply horrible shit they've gone through really takes precedence over my little presentation. So those grieving, wailing friends get the attention instead of me.

So, how does a genuine human being behave in such a circumstance? Get upset about not being able to deliver your sales pitch as originally expected? Or sit back, let those who are mourning grieve in whatever fashion they choose, and offer them the only thing you really can offer at that point, a listening and sympathetic ear.

They don't want your 12-point economic plan, they want to know that you actually CARE. They want you to get what they feel.

Bernie should have felt honored that those protestors thought highly enough of him that they hoped by showing him their grief, he would take it to heart and work harder to do something about it.

He was given a challenge to up his game beyond "I marched with MLK in the 60s". As the saying goes, "What have you done for me lately?"

[DisgustipatedinCA]

89. Respectfully, I hear what you're saying, but I don't agree in this instance.

And I'll leave it there.

[Quayblue]

140. very well written nt

[bravenak]

81. :)

[scarletwoman]

83. Hey!

I ought to have told you long before this, but you are one of my favorite people on DU. It's been wonderful getting to know you better.

[bravenak]

84. Hey!

Thank you!! I had a great time with you yesterday! You summed up everything I was thinking!

[msanthrope]

98. This post is why I love you. nt

[BeyondGeography]

29. She's kind of kid-like

Saw her on Blue Nation; much more charming in person than in print. But I didn't see or hear a leader. BLM will not flourish with her at the helm, imo.

[scarletwoman]

37. You be sure to let them know! They'll want to know what you think about how to choose their leaders!

It's our gift to them, the white peoples' wisdom!

[BeyondGeography]

39. I was going to rely on you to pass it on

Can I count on you?

[scarletwoman]

42. Why would I pass on *your* insights and wisdom? I wouldn't want you to not get credit!

No, it's all yours. You go for it!

[BeyondGeography]

44. Touché

[Raine1967]

36. !!!! She founded Black Lives Matter. !!!!

She is a lot more than what you describe in your OP.

She coined the #BlackLivesMatter hashtag. She is a woman with a voice and I find it a somewhat offensive that you think it is ok to denigrate her and the BLM movement. You said this:

What an arrogant individual. What an a$$head.

Black people are, like all people, extremely diverse. Then along comes Patrisse Cullors who acts like she is an entire race's spokesperson on who an entire diverse group will vote for. Then, to boot, she vows to shut down the democratic process every chance she gets.

She and every other member of the movement do not deserve to be dismissed or maligned. She is not speaking for a ace, she is speaking for the countless people that identify with and need the movement called Black Lives Matter.

and please let me quote you once more:

“No more skirting around the issues,” Cullor said. “We will shut down every single debate.” (brentspeak: The "issues"? You didn't even let him speak, you idiot)

you think it ok to call a person, a woman and a founding member of the BLM movement and idiot?

That is just sad and really pathetic.

[moniss]

45. Oh Really?

Enough of this crap about who she is or isn't. The fact of the matter is they have admitted that their purpose was not dialogue but disruption. So they succeeded. I have little doubt that like so many of her age group she has little to no knowledge about those she is accusing. It seems sad to me that they certainly aren't at the Republican events doing this but they saw an opportunity to confront what they see as old white faces and make their media splash. Well bravo because as I and many others have found the "youngsters" coming along now in a Johnnie Come Lately fashion to civil rights struggles have little to no knowledge about the things that a lot of white people did and died for in the 50's and 60's. Hell many of them I have spoken to don't know squat beyond MLK. I see here on their website all kinds of generalized demands. Do the hard work to actually come up with policy actions and specifics and then let's talk. Until then all you are accomplishing is bad-mouthing those trying to help you have better lives.

[PowerToThePeople]

46. head scratch

My spidy senses are picking up something here.

[Raine1967]

61. You too, huh? eom.

[Raine1967]

64. Thank you for schooling me… I feel corrected. I am so sorry….

You made a a number of assumptions with your post… but before we continue…

let me quote your post for all the world to see:

Oh Really?
Enough of this crap about who she is or isn't. The fact of the matter is they have admitted that their purpose was not dialogue but disruption. So they succeeded. I have little doubt that like so many of her age group she has little to no knowledge about those she is accusing. It seems sad to me that they certainly aren't at the Republican events doing this but they saw an opportunity to confront what they see as old white faces and make their media splash. Well bravo because as I and many others have found the "youngsters" coming along now in a Johnnie Come Lately fashion to civil rights struggles have little to no knowledge about the things that a lot of white people did and died for in the 50's and 60's. Hell many of them I have spoken to don't know squat beyond MLK. I see here on their website all kinds of generalized demands. Do the hard work to actually come up with policy actions and specifics and then let's talk. Until then all you are accomplishing is bad-mouthing those trying to help you have better lives.

She is a woman with a voice. She has EVERY right to speak her truth. You don't get to determine who she is and what she should say or do.

Welcome to DU.

Also, I am not sorry for speaking my mind.

Raine

[Skittles]

69. sure she has every right

just as DUers have the right to NOT AGREE

[swilton]

43. Her video interview with Laura Flanders

[PowerToThePeople]

50. Have you OP'd this?

Very great lady. All the candidates would do well to have dialogues with her and others like her. I had never heard her name before the NN event, I am happy to have at least heard about her now.

[udbcrzy2]

70. Another article with video here about Patrisse Cullors

Black Lives Matter's Patrisse Cullors on Creating a New Economy of Nonviolence
Tuesday, 19 May 2015 00:00 By Laura Flanders, Truthout | Video Interview
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/30842-black-lives-matters-patrisse-cullors-on-creating-a-new-economy-of-non-violence#

[PADemD]

79. Wow, she wasn't screaming at Laura Flanders.

Too bad Patrisse Cullors wouldn't sit down and have a conversation with Bernie. She might have accomplished something more productive.

[KoKo]

128. I wonder that, also. The interviews posted show her as a thoughtful person

with experience in activism. I would think she would be closer to Bernie and O'Malley in thinking than what was expressed at Netroots by the BLM activists who seemed to feel that dialogue was impossible with the candidates.

[KoKo]

125. That was an interesting watch...

And, that she was working with groups in Palestine and UK. Also her addressing the militarization of our Police in the USA and Police in other countries which is so important.

Thanks for posting! I didn't know that Laura Flanders still had a show.

BTW: How did you post it here on DU without the annoying ad showing at the beginning..if you don't mind me asking.

[cherokeeprogressive]

48. I get that black lives matter. What I don't get is the expectation that potential Presidents bow

down to a hashtag activist as if she's suddenly a King Maker. Neither Bernie Sanders nor Martin O'Malley has ever killed a black man or woman, or ANY man/woman.

I had to laugh at the audio of Martin O'Malley after they booed him off the stage Saturday. He couldn't even repeat "those two phrases" (white lives matter and all lives matter), why? He was totally emasculated. He was once My Guy, but after that... well, no one who's that timid seems presidential in my mind. The only thing he had in mind was kissing ass, and I don't want a President who kisses the asses of every hashtag activist who disrupts an event he or she is speaking at.

Get back to me when Cullors disrupts a Hillary Clinton staged town hall and forces her to her bow down to the will of... of... who?

#BlackLivesMatter didn't save the life of a SINGLE black man or woman with their stunt Saturday. They presented no ideas nor did they advance any agenda. They merely disrupted an event where they COULD have calmly asked questions and waited for reasoned responses that might have moved the ball one way or the other. They didn't. They became a sideshow that overshadowed the main acts. Those facts seem to have been lost on Hillary Clinton supporters who think BLM's stunt is a club to beat Bernie Sanders and/or Martin O'Malley over the head with.

Here's something for Clinton supporters to think about... I've been hearing and reading all day that Hillary Clinton wasn't there Saturday because she was booed there in 2007. Soooo, she scheduled a fundraiser or whatever rather than being there. Netroots Nation was Hillary Clinton's kitchen on Saturday; and she was afraid of the heat. Presidential? Nnnnnnope.

[kwassa]

52. So, you are dismissing BLM, too?

That's a winning tactic.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

55. I wasn't before. I am now.

I will continue to work with anyone who wants to stop police brutality, but BLM is twitter bullshit that exposed themselves for what they are on Saturday.

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. Winning tactic? I'm not running for anything.

And no, I'm not dismissing them, I'm calling them what they are... hashtag activists. Hashtag activists who, in fact, did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to advance any cause on Saturday. All they did was prevent anyone ELSE from advancing a cause.

Like I said... get back to me when Cullors disrupts a staged Hillary Clinton event. Then I'd pay a lot more attention. But now, as the "co-founder of a hashtag", she's no King Maker.

[kwassa]

58. You don't decide who black people vote for.

And you don' t get to designate king makers, either.

[840high]

60. You don't either.

[99Forever]

103. Guess that doesn't quite dawn on them.

As if they speak for all. No demographic of people is a monolith.

[Skittles]

63. "We will shut down every single debate"

apparently that tactic is becoming popular on DU too

[kwassa]

72. What debate has been shut down?

Seems to be burbling right along here.

[Skittles]

77. LOL

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[arcane1]

57. I think that is one of the things that people are not sure about.

Saying “We will shut down every single debate” is open to a few interpretations.

[gollygee]

49. Protests don't ever happen without someone leading them

Do you just not like protests in general?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

51. Recommended. Kicked. nt

[still_one]

54. Not praising or dissing BLM, but they are expressing a frustration that after decades of racial

abuse against African Americans, no one seems to be listening. Their point is they want to see action, especially in light of the recent police and racist shootings

However, in order for real action to start a dialog has to start. Whenever one of these racial outrages occurs, it makes headlines for a few days, and then is forgotten, and I think that is where they are coming from, they want it to get the attention it deserves, and action to stop the killing

[BillZBubb]

75. Yeah, you are just making excuses for their boorishness.

If they were serious, they would be hounding the republicans, NOT THE DEMOCRATS. The republicans are the ones with the candidates and base who always support the cops, no matter the outrage.

[still_one]

93. You point may be valid. Is BLM going after republicans with the same vigor as they are with

Democrats, and to be honest, I don't know?

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. WOW ... DU is coming completely unhinged. n/t

[M0rpheus]

76. Becoming?!?

[Number23]

80. That solitary word is the exact same thing I thought. "Becoming???!"

But it sure is kind of these people to put everything all out in the open, bright and shining and blatant as hell for everyone to see. I hope that you are bookmarking as much lately as I have been.

And always nice to see you, M0rph.

[M0rpheus]

117. Ya know, I take back what I said about a "Silver Lining" from the other week...

This -ish is just getting more and more ridiculous.

Always a pleasure to see you!

[1StrongBlackMan]

104. Yes ... Who would'a guessed a non-violent protest by an activist group ...

and the co-founder of said group speaking out, would set a liberal political message board on fire (in a bad way)? Huh?

BTW ... I miss your GIFerations. But know ... I'm in 3-a-day training for the 2016 GIF-Olympics. I'm just about at fighting weight.

[M0rpheus]

114. I can see that angle, however...

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)

I've been here long enough to remember many of the matches that have set this place alight.

Trayvon, Prop 8, Fried Chicken, 2008 Primaries, etc...

The walls in this place are covered in layers of bullshit and I'm not really sure there's enough of a will to even have a discussion about wiping off the doorknob, much less cleaning house.


It's been this way for just about every cycle I've been here.

All I can say past that:

And now that I've stuck my toe back in the water, I'm probably back for a minute. Just keep stockpiling those GIFS, Just in case.


*Your sarcasm isn't lost on me, I'm just in a IDGAF mode today.

[bravenak]

82. Dude. This shit is insane.

[Agschmid]

101. Yup.

[bravenak]

109. They love trying to bully black people into loving Sanders.

Bout to burn the internet to th ground soon. Then they'll be sorry they fucked with me a bajillion times.

[1StrongBlackMan]

106. Yeah, I know ... I'm just kind of speech-less. n/t

[bravenak]

108. I have been getting bullied by Sander's afficionados for a few hours now.

I'm ready to blow the fucking internet up, set it on fire, pour on gasoline and laugh while the muthafucka burns.

[Number23]

143. You mean, like this..???

[bravenak]

144. Hell yeah. I'll kill their fucking internet. Assholes.

[NCTraveler]

113. It's getting to be pretty hurtful.

And I would like to think I have thick skin.

[RichVRichV]

78. If she can shut down

the privately run debates by the very strict DNC I will be highly impressed. I don't think she's going to find them quite as accommodating as netroots was.

[TM99]

86. Maybe I should make the post I

am about to present as an OP but for now I will write it here.

My years of experience as a mediator and couple's therapist has trained me to look and listen to both side of a disagreement such that I can hear not only what both are trying to say but why they can not seem to communicate with each other.

Ms. Cullors is a Millennial. I do not state that as a means of derision but as a starting point on the differences I see and hear right now on DU. She came of age literally after the year 2000. Most of the activism and the language of activism that she learned has been shaped by the internet (social media) and academic theories such as privilege and queer theories. She is a spokesperson for a generation of activists that are now considered to be the Post New Left liberals.

I will yet again post this link as I think it truly helps to show why there is miscommunication among allies here on DU.

http://publicautonomy.org/2014/01/27/the-rise-of-the-post-new-left-political-vocabulary/

Post New Left language is antagonistic and divisive. It is often fueled by hurt and rage but can sometimes lack reason and dialog.

In particular note the differences between alliances and allies, consciousness raising versus calling out, and liberation versus a safe space.

This difference in language reflects why all here who support BLM are discussing why they think it was or was not the best course of action for what occured at NrN.

Post New Leftists (Mostly Millennials and post Millennials)? Oh, hell, yes, call out other progressive allies in order to get safety for blacks. We don't care about Sanders or O'Malley and what they may have done. We only care about now and that our demands be met.

New Leftists (Gen X and Baby Boomers)? Oh, hell, no, that did not raise awareness. It potentially alienated those who will form an alliance with us, and it failed to recognize that we are all oppressed right now by corporatists. Why did you attack our allies Sanders and O'Malley who we want to work with us?

Even though I may not agree with either side in total, I do agree that both want to take seriously both Sanders and his progressivism and BLM and their grievances.

And sadly, at the same time, this issue of communication differences is being used by some both at DU and in the social media universe as a wedge issue. That is how this type of politics is done. Find your opponents strength. Amplify any mis-steps that allow you to attack their strong areas, and pit groups within your opposition against each other using surrogates to do your dirty work. This has been going on for decades. This is not saying that Clinton or here supporters created this. But I will bluntly say that Clinton and her supporters will take advantage of it if they think it will lead them to victory. And before I could finish this post, I was proven right. Clinton got a soft-ball question from a reporter on a FB interview after the fact and was able to say that she would have said Black Lives Matter when we really have no idea how she would have responded if she too had been ambushed like the other two candidates in the wild.

It is not just minority votes that need earned. All votes do. And if we are falling for the Third Way propaganda that social justice and economic justice are separate, that political opportunists can use our movements to simply further their political ambitions, and progressive candidates with a long history of AA and minority support are dismissed too quickly, our differences in activism will have caused a rift such that we all fail. My white progressive male and female friends here are not my enemy even if they don't always grok my experience, even if they are older and don't always understand the new Post New Left semantic structures, and most importantly even if they feel defensive because our anger, fear, and hurt coupled with a new generation's activist style makes it sound like they are being marginalized and attacked.

Can we go past this? Has the damage been done? Can we communicate when our styles seem so radically different? I have more questions than answers right now. For that I am sorry.

[artislife]

87. Read this post^^^^^

Excellent. There is a real generational difference.

[merrily]

90. Living in a question for a while is not a bad thing at all.

[Blue_In_AK]

91. I'm just staying out of it entirely.

It seems like not much that a white person of a certain age can say that's appropriate, so I'm just out...

Carry on.

[merrily]

94. Did you mean to reply to the OP?

[Blue_In_AK]

95. Anybody who's reading,

not you in particular. I'm just kind of frustrated by this whole "discussion" that's been going on here the past few days. Everybody's talking past each other, no suggestions, just scorn on all sides. I'm just sick of it. I should stay out of this forum, I guess.

I didn't mean to alarm you.

[merrily]

97. Don't worry. I don't alarm that easily. I was only a bit puzzled. You are welcome to post to me

whenever you want.

Staying away from this forum is a great idea. I've meant to do just that. I trashed it as soon as I read about it. However, I keep finding myself in here via Latest Threads, jury duty, people cross posting in the Bernie Group, etc. Often, I don't even notice that I am here before I spot some nasty or false thing or other and I get sucked in.

[KoKo]

133. As others have said.."Welcome to the Hotel California"

DU is like the old tune:
The Eagles Lyricis:

"Hotel California"

On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance, I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night
There she stood in the doorway;
I heard the mission bell
And I was thinking to myself,
"This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"
Then she lit up a candle and she showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor,
I thought I heard them say...

Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year (Any time of year)
You can find it here

Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.
Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

So I called up the Captain,
"Please bring me my wine"
He said, "We haven't had that spirit here since nineteen sixty nine"
And still those voices are calling from far away,
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say...

Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
They livin' it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise)
Bring your alibis

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax, " said the night man,
"We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! "

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eagles/hotelcalifornia.html

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

136. My coworker and I played that every Friday at 5pm back when I was with a small start-up.

It was sort of an in-joke, because we were always on call if anything crashed at a client's site, and there were times we slept on the vinyl floor to grab a couple hours of nap when we got stuck there all night.

[stranger81]

99. Thanks for the link to the Public Autonomy post -- very illuminating.

Explains a lot of the disconnect here.

[TM99]

100. It does, doesn't it.

It is like we have generations here speaking two radically different languages.

And there are those who are using that miscommunication to their advantage. That is what bothers me the most. Communication issues can be worked through. Manipulation of our emotions are not as easy to see through.

[John Poet]

107. Thank you for your "mediator's explanantion".

I've been trying to follow this the past couple days.
Emotionally, I've been with both sides at times, but not saying too much.

I think the protest served a good purpose, if it has made the candidates more aware of the relative importance of these issues to African-Americans in the party, and they will now speak more forcefully to these issues-- and I think it has.... even if some of us feel the protest was done "the wrong way".

However... it's a mess on this board. Many of my fellow Bernie supporters seem to be taking this too personally-- as if it happened to them personally, and it's their place to decide how to react personally. I have felt the same way at times-- but it serves no good purpose to dwell on our "feelings" this way, IMHO-- nor to attack BLM or those who try to explain BLM's views-- even though some BLM supporters' comments might seem to invite such hostility.


One of our candidate's events was disrupted. Many Bernie supporters are upset about this. OK.

Something posted elsewhere put this in perspective for me:

When I went out last night, I didn't have to worry about being harassed by police because of my race. I wasn't arrested, I wasn't shot, I wasn't killed by police-- nor did I have to worry that I might be, just because of my race.... because I'm white.

If things were otherwise-- well, then I would feel personally the urgency that the BLM activists feel over these issues. NOW, I at least understand it-- and I tend to agree that these issues don't get enough attention. Those killed become a five-day media personage, but then nothing seems to change much. Things seem to have gotten worse, in fact.

We all need to GET PAST this one disrupted event, and try to be more constructive.

This was just ONE event that maybe didn't go "quite right", depending on your perspective.

However, too many people are reacting to it in ways which can make it a party-wrecker. We're making this thing go on and on, but in a negative way.

We can do better than this. Maybe it starts by taking a step back from it.

[TM99]

111. I think that most Sanders supporters

no matter how they feel about the specifics of the BLM protest at NrN are willing to move forward with dialog between the campaign and the BLM movement. I read that here now daily.

What keeps stoking this mess is a very small but very loud group of Clinton supporters who are capitalizing on this event and the fall-out from it.

Politically, of course they are. It serves her and them very well, at least for now. But here it is causing a lot of rancor and discontent. It is continuing this morning.

Eventually the next campaign 'event' or new talking point will displace it but until then I am hopeful that cooler heads will prevail. As a POC I side with my community AND I still view Sanders as the best long-tern candidate to help not only us but the entire US.

[zappaman]

92. Weird...here at DU, we have plenty of white people

Appointing themselves as spokespeople of AAs...

[Blue_In_AK]

96. Black people speaking for white people,

white people speaking for black people...

Can't we all just get along?

[John Poet]

110. We should all just speak for ourselves,

and quit all the self-righteous claims to being representative of one group or another....


From your friendly Representative of The Lollipop Guild.

[DinahMoeHum]

102. Let's see her take her act to the GOP candidates. . .

. . .then I'll be convinced she's doing something concrete.

As it is, my respect for BLM dropped several notches over the weekend.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

120. BLM knows the Republican(t)s are hopeless...

When you are in distress you go to your friends for help.

[Comrade Grumpy]

124. And then shit all over them?

[NCTraveler]

112. I support her.

Interesting watching her get slammed by some. Transparency. Some aren't even trying to fly under the radar anymore and I for one appreciate it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. "By any means necessary."

[Bluenorthwest]

138. ACT UP- NY City Hall, Kennebunkport Maine

[DemocratSinceBirth]

139. Random points.

-Did you see the HBO documentary on Larry Kramer?
-Every movement needs its quiet and loud leaders.
-Power never surrenders without a struggle.

[Nye Bevan]

116. She's like the new Martin Luther King.

And drowning out and shutting down the Democratic debates is like today's version of the lunch counter sit-ins.

A Nobel Peace Prize in her future?

[pa28]

127. Presenting a divided and chaotic party to the American public means a Republican president.

Just like it gave us President Nixon in 1968.

[DonCoquixote]

129. if she is so unqualified

perhaps then if you listened to the Jesses, Baracks , Tavisesor even the Cornells, she would not have been put in that position. Drowning people will grab a thorny branch if it is the one thing that keeps them from drowning.

[HassleCat]

130. All protesters are "we the people."

That's just the way they do it. Look at any protest ever made, by any group, against any person of condition, and you will see the same thing. The protesters claim to speak for "the people." Nothing wrong with this, because (1) they could be right and (2) we can decide for ourselves whether or not they speak for us and our concerns. I doubt if Cullors will shut down many more debates because organizers will be watching, and will have her arrested, probably accompanied by much applause from the audience. If she is right, everybody will support her and she'll be able to take over the event, and the police will not be able to touch her. We'll see how it goes.

[Maedhros]

132. My bottom line is this:

Constituencies must make demands of their politicians, and hold them accountable if those demands aren't met. Nobody is entitled to anyone's votes. BLM and their supporters should vote for that candidate that best represents their views, and if they believe that candidates have more work to do in order to secure their votes, then I say stick to your guns.

And then there are third parties co-opting BLM's message to mislead with disingenuous smears. Those people are separate from BLM and their arguments should be judged on their own merits, or lack thereof.

[LWolf]

137. You know, I was hoping for some healing this primary season.

I expected things to get contentious and ugly. I've been here for other primaries. Frankly, '04 was a walk in the park compared to '08, and that's saying something.

In '08, I didn't support either of the two main candidates; not a surprise, since I'm not a neo-liberal. I WAS, though, appalled at the way the primary race devolved into factions along gender and race lines.

In my mind, Democrats are supposed to be champions of all the 99%, including all the sub-groups that fight for social and economic justice for their own groups and others. That Democrats would choose a side and campaign against one of those sub groups, try to rank another higher...I found that to be hypocritical, to say the least. And humiliating, distasteful, and, frankly, hope killing. But then, I'm a defiant idealist.

This time around, I knew there would be some ugly, bloody infighting if the coronation was challenged.

I didn't expect that we'd STILL be fighting about race, though. I didn't see it coming.

I should have. I understand why PoC are up in arms. At least, as a white woman, I think I do, because I've been trying to listen. As another DUer said recently, I think that's what we should all be doing just that; listening, and looking at the perspective of others.

I trust PoC, who are not a monolithic group, to know their issues, to think, and to make reasoned choices.

I also would like to continue listening, and hope that some will continue to communicate to any with open ears and minds. Be patient with me. Explain to me what I'm not getting. I'm not your enemy, and want to stand with you against the real enemy when needed.

I THINK I'm hearing that PoC want racial justice to be a top priority, not only a facet of economic justice. Because while racial injustice has always been with us, it feels like (to this white woman) those injustices have begun to increase again, to be more public, to be legitimized by tptb.

I THINK that some of what I'm hearing is not just a demand for justice, but the anger and bitterness fueling that demand. I think I'm hearing that there is a growing determination not to push injustices under the rug, ever again. I support that.

I think that many people are hearing, and tasting, the anger and bitterness more than the demand for justice. So I think we should do a better job listening and hearing and understanding.

I can do that. I will do that. I hope, as well, that some can do the same when listening to people bewildered by the anger, and that responses will draw people in, to join in dialogue and solidarity, rather than pushing people away.

[sabrina 1]

147. Reverse racism.