Hillary or Bernie?

[Marrah_G]

I sit back shaking my head reading threads about the primary on DU. Yes, we've been through this before and it's never fun. But why is that? Why get so angry at another poster because they support a different Democrat? It makes no sense. Healthy debate is good, but the level of frustration, snark, mocking and outright anger at each other is just nuts.

They are both Democrats. Of course most people have a candidate they like more then the other, but this doesn't make those people enemies.

I support Bernie. But I am also wise enough to understand that other DUers support Hillary as much as I support Bernie ( or maybe more). I don't hate those people. They are fellow Democrats, progressives,liberals. In November 2016, I know they will be at the polls voting for the Dem nominee just like I will be.

We are all allies in this. Support your candidate, but please, think before you hit "post". Because that member you are about to be a jerk to, may well be that member that will be there for you if you need them. DU is full of compassionate, loving, generous human beings. Let's not lose that during this very long primary.

We are a community, a family, be kind to one another.

[lovemydog]

1. Thanks Marrah_G.

I agree one hundred percent. We can get pretty frustrated here, perhaps by others' posts. It's always a good reminder that we are allies in defeating republicans.

[Skittles]

2. they are not the only two choices

but you would think that, looking at the juvenile sniping going on

[Marrah_G]

3. I know, but those are the ones that are fighting with each other.

for all we know, neither will be the candidate and someone we haven't even heard from will be.

[restorefreedom]

35. honestly, if it were omalley

i would be ok with that.

[passiveporcupine]

4. Thanks Marrah

[Thinkingabout]

5. I don't understand the RW talking point which have been debunked continues over and over.

Promote your choice without the Rush talking points.

[brooklynite]

6. Let's be clear:one side HATES the other candidate; the other side does not

One side says they'll NEVER vote for the other candidate; the other side does not.

[NealK]

8. Congratulations. You just provided a perfect example of what the OP is complaining about.

[stillwaiting]

9. Let's be more clear (and more honest)...

One side has a few posters that say they can't vote for the other candidate (the majority say they will vote for the other candidate even if they aren't happy about it).

The other side currently has a HUGE lead in the polls and is assumed to be the nominee. A lot of graciousness can result from being in that position (as it should). We'll see what happens if the polls get a lot closer (or heaven forbid one candidate takes the lead from the other). Past history has shown that a number of supporters of this side refused to vote for the eventual nominee.

You are vastly overstating the problem with one of the "sides". "One side" has not and will not NEVER vote for the other candidate. Most from that side will vote for the other candidate (some will do so quite upset about it; some will do so unenthusiastically about it; some will do so pragmatically about it; some will do so with a good feeling about it; and some will do so very happily about it). "One side" is a lot more diverse than you paint it, and your characterization does absolutely no good. It's purely divisive crap.

[daybranch]

10. we do not hate Hillary Clinton

We do however believe that vast amounts of money for many years have tainted our government and provided a status quo of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. We also believe that Hillary has been in bed both literally and figuratively with those who have done harm to the working families odf this country. We dislike her husband a lot because of NAFTA and his changes to the social safety net in this country. We also know she gets her money from large Corporations , banks, and Wall Street, as well as very wealthy individual donors. As to Hilllary's figuratively being in bed with these donors we see proof by her positions that she does their bidding. She says she stands with the people and with unions but her non-support of Glass-Steagall, her failure to repudiate NAFTA, and her support of the Trans-Pacific Partnership belies that statement. We also find she seems to play it both ways as while she supports the Iranian agreement, she runs to alleviate any doubts about her support to AIPAC, a group many of us, jewish or not, think have too much sway over government and which creates a resistance to peace in the middle east.
We see Hillary as more the same and less progressive than Obama who we find less progressive than we like, but more progressive than Hillary. In many ways we see electing Hillary as turning the clock back and strengthening those business interests whose benefit it is to exploit our people for their financial gain. We do not hate Hillary , we just wish she actually stood with the people rather than billionaires.
Bernie Sanders appears to stand with us. We like what he says and we see him as authentic. Hillary has a message that like a cake has a great frosting of promises for all to enjoy on the top but when you get underneath, someone forgot to put in the flour and the cake is horrible. Hillary like Romney has the difficult job of selling the platform of the rich to the increasingly progressive voters. This is not going to get easier as more and more contrast is drawn between her positions on the larger economic issues of the day and progressives and populists.
Yes, we dems will vote for Hillary i no other progressive voice is nominated, but make no mistake Hillary is much less a democrat in our view than Bernie Sanders., Elizabeth Warren, Martin O'Malley or Sherrod Brown. She ain't us. She is much more conservative on economic policy than Obama and certainly less than the people themselves who are left of Obama. Hillary's approval ratings are mostly a reflection of how low republicans have sunk, not the loft of her own actions.
But if we cannot get a real movement going soon for Bernie, we can only blame ourselves. We will do it. Go Bernie!

[cantbeserious]

11. ^^^ THIS ^^^

eom

[sarge43]

13. Well said. Thank you n/t

[Maven]

30. "She is much more conservative on economic policy than Obama"

what is your evidence for this? perhaps this perception is a leftover remnant of the 2008 campaign, but it has also always been a fantasy. look at the people Obama appointed to run the economy. look at his actions on trade. on healthcare. on accountability for wall street. you still think he's to the left of the Clintons on economic policy?

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. "One side" accounts for ALL a candidate's supporters. Try again; this time with a narrower brush.

[sabrina 1]

23. That is NOT true at all. But the use of the word 'hate' to describe disagreement on

policies is exactly what the OP is talking about. Why inject that into the conversation?

And it isn't 'one side' in unison, another inaccurate statement. SOME people say they will not vote for a candidate while others say they will even if reluctantly.

[rogerashton]

26. I would like to say --

and that is your side. But that would be just as wrong, I know.

[sarge43]

7. Bottom line, rubber and road, end of the day and all those other cliches,

August of next year, unless we think a Repug in the WH is good idea, we will unite behind one of them or someone else. We'll be the ground pounders, GOTV, phone banking and all the other scut work it takes to get our candidate elected.

Debating the issues, discussing good points and bad, strategy is good. Excellent prep for the election. Slinging poo at each other isn't. We just get dirty and the Repugs like it.

[secondwind]

12. I loved this post. Good for you, to bring this to the attention of everyone.. I support Bernie but

I don't hate Hillary or her followers, and at the end of the day, if she is the nominee, I will support her and vote for her.

[MohRokTah]

14. I wonder what the jury vote was on your post.

When calling Hillary Clinton a whore gets past a jury but a story posted about Bernie's voting record in the Congress gets hidden, I'm sure just about every post in here gets alerted on these days.

[cyberswede]

15. Which story about Bernie's voting record was hidden?

[Marrah_G]

19. Sometimes you just have to let a subject go after a while

Juries are not always right, nor always fair.

[MohRokTah]

21. Not when patterns form.

Bernie Sanders supporters have control of DU. Nothing bad said about Hillary is out of bounds and any questioning of Sanders whatsoever is completely out of bounds.

[cyberswede]

22. What poppycock.

There are plenty of posts questioning Sanders on DU.

Here's a selection from page 1 of GD: Primaries:

#BlackTwitter Turns On Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley Failed Their #BlackLivesMatter Test
White progressives get a taste of anger & frustration as #BlackLivesMatter activists upstage Bernie
How the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders elected
Have you guys seen the #berniesoblack?
Does anyone really think Bernie Sanders would be an effective POTUS
I wonder what the Sanders supporters would do if Elizabeth Warren suddenly decided to run?


...and then there's this one. Is that satire?
The reactions of O'Malley and Sanders at NN15 PROVES they don't care about #blacklivesmatter

I notice you didn't provide a link to a "story posted about Bernie's voting record in the Congress {that was} hidden" - I can only conclude you don't have an example.

[rogerashton]

27. I think he outmanuvered you!

He got you to post a link to a mass of anti-Bernie propaganda. He wins.

[cyberswede]

28. The links are all on the main page of GD:P - my linking to them doesn't matter.

[sabrina 1]

24. That is nonsense. Bernie supporters have been banned for things no Hillary

supporter would be banned for.

And look at the GD Primary forum. It is filled with attacks on Sanders that get a pass the same stuff would not get if they were about Hillary.

Just promote your candidate's good points and if people agree they will be influenced, but the constant, childish, and often false attacks on either candidate, do nothing for anyone.

[zappaman]

32. "Bernie supporters have been banned for things no Hillary supporter would be banned for."

Such as?

[Marrah_G]

25. It is a matter of perspective

I am sure some Bernie supporters see it exactly opposite of that. This happens every primary season.

[daybranch]

16. Oh come on-

enough of the whining by Hillary supporters, this is supposed to be Democratic Underground where we honestly state our beliefs. If you want to belong to that good old dems club and retard discussion while you whoop up the troops, Huffington Post is available and already working for Hillary.
I am so sick of that controlling statement that if we complain loudly about Hillary positions and or donor control, we are somehow disingenuous as democrats and heaven forbid a republican could get elected. Get over it, Hillary supporters. You cannot institute your own version of the Alien and Sedition act on Democratic Underground. Hillary may be anointed by powers that be but she has not been elected or nominated. Let the people speak and quit trying to shut down our honest statements, no matter how much they may disturb your own cognitive dissonance.
Democracy is not smooth and it is not pretty. Attempts to change that only stifle democracy.
Why not actively engage in discussion of issues and get out of the MSM created fan club? Come on be Democrats, not sheep. We Bernie Sanders dems do not see Hillary as progressive on economic issues and while is socially liberal, so are all democrats in congress. We also see this election as a step to continuance of protection and advancement of our people. Obama has done some very good things and we want much more than Hillary's status quo of the rich and the wealthy running our government.
Hillary people by and large drifted to her as democrats, as supporters of women in politics etc. . But if they examine more closely her positions on our economy and understand the historically negative role of her donor class on our people they will be awakened and turn away.

[Marrah_G]

20. I do believe you have completely missed the point of my post

[Dawgs]

18. Sorry. I don't agree.

Community maybe, but not "a family". I've never met any of you face to face.

And, I enjoy the back and forth, either good or bad.

[arcane1]

29. I save my anger for lies about our candidates n/t

[PowerToThePeople]

31. "Hillary or Bernie?" answer: Bernie

#FeelTheBern

[elleng]

33. And many of us support Martin O'Malley and are not happy (mild language)

that so many DUers appear to ignore him, the only candidate with extensive executive experience.

This is NOT the way to run a railroad/political party/primary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

[seveneyes]

34. Welcome to the Partisan