2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum#BlackLivesMatter co-founder warns presidential candidates: ‘We will shut down every single debate’
The protest continued during Sanders appearance, with one woman standing on a chair and using the #IfIDieInPoliceCustody tag, which has spread in the wake of the deaths of Kindra Chapman and Sandra Bland.
If I die in police custody, I want Bernie Sanders to say my name, she said.
Cullors and other protesters also called on the senator to deal with anti-blackness instead of focusing his speech on economic measures.
Black lives of course matter, Sanders said at one point. But I have spent 50 yrs of my life fighting for civil rights and if you dont want me to be here, thats OK.
But following the event, Cullors said Sanders and other presidential hopefuls need to make black communities feel like they are not being sold something.
If you want our vote, you are going to have to do way more work, she said.
Full article: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/blacklivesmatter-co-founder-warns-presidential-candidates-we-will-shut-down-every-single-debate/
What are your thoughts on this?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)It doesn't appear to be working and now they have a new method apparently.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Sanders and O'Malley are not responsible for Micheal or Sandra. They are willing listeners and partners to help make a change, but not if they're being screamed at. The strategy employed by BLM is destined for self-defeat. The only explanation I can see is that they just want personal attention, not a solution to the problem.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)MH1
(17,600 posts)they SHOULD shut up long enough to hear the answer.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)allowed his DOJ to 'file a report' and then do nothing. Their beef should be with those who have been in positions to do something, with the Dem Mayors and Governors who sent in the National Guard and treated them like terrorists.
And since I am involved in this movement and have been for nearly a year, I can assure you this guy isn't speaking for all of those who are part of this movement, not by a long shot.
Let me ask YOU something, when was the last time the police abused protesters in Ferguson? Just curious, you have a lot to say aimed at Sanders, but not much of substance so I'm wondering, have been BEEN to any of those protests lately, have you any ideo of WHO sent out the National Guard over the past several months to 'reign in' the 'terrorists'? Hint, it was NOT Bernie Sanders.
Btw, you didn't respond to my question regarding your pretense of being a Bernie supporter, at least I didn't see your response.
Why would someone do that, we are curious as it appears to be happening, not very successfully, quite a lot?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That's about all I have to say on that matter.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I am curious as to why someone would do that. But if you don't want to explain, that's up to you. Seems to be a trend, though not a very successful one.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)and Congress members as a whole..people who have the power to do something now?
Is it really just all about publicity for them instead of real action? I'll take them seriously when they show up at Republican events...those are the people trying to supress them, not Sanders or O'Malley.
Way to lose support from Democats who generally have had the backs of supressed people during my lifetime.
bigtree
(85,999 posts)...these confrontations of would-be allies stifling speech is counterproductive to that important discussion and debate.
Would they, should they tolerate similar attempts to stifle their own dialogue?
tularetom
(23,664 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)They are courageous.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)we'll see how much you're applauding them then.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Not a good reaction considering the fact that blacks play a huge roll in the primaries, especially in states like SC.
It's impossible for a Dem to win the presidency without the black vote.
Don't take the black vote for granted....otherwise you will get burned.
Today was just a taste.
#BlackLivesMatter.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Will you be supportive when they do this to Hillary?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251457287 I look forward to your reaction when that happens.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It didn't take long for other HC supporters to realize this isn't a reason to celebrate.
still_one
(92,273 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)For now anyway.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm sure they'll be applauding all over this forum.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Think this is at all possible at a Hillary Clinton event?
"...dozens of boisterous conference attendees flooded through a side door and shouted down the White House contender." http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/
My guess is no one gets in the door once Mrs. Clinton takes the stage, and if by some twist of fate it did happen, she'd be spirited off the stage by her handlers post haste under the guise of "protecting the former First Lady" and/or "protecting the former Secretary of State".
arcane1
(38,613 posts)'See? She's so great that BLM doesn't even need to protest her!"
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)still_one
(92,273 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)misses stuff.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Fools of all colors and political stripes.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)are accustomed to no bullshit candidates like Sanders. They've grown up with the consummate slickie boys: Clinton and Obama.
Not to get ageist, or anything.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)aikoaiko
(34,174 posts)And from the applause, it sounds like a vast majority of the attendees liked what he said.
It even seemed like many of the protesters had stopped protesting and were listening.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)That is how I saw Sander's response. O'Malley was not sure how to handle it. I kinda felt sorry for him.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)We shall see indeed.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)will they stand up to SOC Clinton?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)onecaliberal
(32,874 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Why target candidates who obviously believe black lives matter over those who don't?
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)but they're getting close. Code Pink slamming Condi is one thing, same with AIDS activists condemning Reagan, but this group taking their frustrations out on Bernie Sanders is BULLSHIT.
Someone please answer me: Cullors, et al. want structural racism eradicated, and for Democratic presidential candidates to come up with a "plan." What, exactly, goes into this plan? How do we, as a nation, eradicate structural racism?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Maybe they don't have one? If they just want to scream and shout and demand a plan be handed to them, then they'll be ignored no matter how loud they are. You don't treat willing allies like enemies...that's just stupid behavior.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)and whether he's made any statements about the Democratic presidential candidates. Because what I saw with #BLM was, like you said, stupid behavior. Stupid, rude, Jerry Springer-like behavior... against candidates who are on THEIR side. It makes no fucking sense. Donald Trump yes, Bernie Sanders, no.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Are they saying the progressive movement is fake? I'm starting to smell fish, especially given the very long record of Sanders in this area and of course, I don't think O'Malley is some sort of problem for BLM. Or maybe I can't get it but I'm a pretty logical thinker? Who exactly is taking their votes and current issues for granted from our side of the fence so to speak?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Just like they did today.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I don't understand how that's gonna work. They had an excellent opportunity for constructive dialog that they blew. Treating allies like enemies doesn't leave you many allies.
It's an important issue, and I hope they can find better leadership to persue the cause.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Didn't even want an answer. They just wanted to disrupt.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Political dirty tricks operation.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Do any of you remember the 68 dem convention?
I admire these young folks, they are not going to give up anything without making their voices heard. These kids are the future of our country, they are trying to move an inert mass forward, it takes energy and passion.
I'm a realist and old so I am the inert mass but damn it we need these engaged and courageous generation. I may not stand with them but I appreciate the stake they have in being part of the political process and they have not given up that a political party can speak to their issues. That makes me hopeful. They make me hopeful.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)They had a meeting scheduled with Bernie. They blew it.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)does #BLM not realize that? Where the hell was Hillary?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Vividly. The PEACEFUL anti-war protesters were not being allowed into the convention venue. Today's protesters were not locked out. In 1968 Mayor Daley sent out his Goon Squad to bust heads (with the blessing of the Democratic Party). There was no violence nor threat of violence to these protesters. The two events are not comparable.
I also love these young people. The ones who use social media to raise social consciousness, who are socially and political aware, who inform themselves of the important issues and WHO STRIVE TO WORK WELL WITH OTHERS BECAUSE THEY RECOGNIZE THEY NEED ALLIES. Those outbursts at NN15 was a waste of everybody's time and only served to divide those who should stand united.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)There was not a whole lot of peace leading to the convention. I don't remember many polite protests.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The peace was destroyed by Daley's brown shirts, NOT the protesters.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I was talking about that primary season culminating with the convention. There was a lot of tension leadi g up to how it all blew up. Some groups were more in your face than others.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)when two great leaders were assassinated within 5 months of each other and the Democratic Party was not listening to the masses of young people protesting against the war and for civil rights. Much the same way as it is today. HOWEVER, that has nothing to do with what happened today. The two politicians who are on the side of racial equality and social justice were shouted down at an event in which they were INVITED TO SPEAK.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)but do you think that this strategy is effective?
MuseRider
(34,112 posts)How long can the community be expected to watch this happen with hardly a ripple to fix it? Sometimes just making people know how damned frustrated you are helps move the message. They will find their way but they will do what they do till they get there. I am guessing they don't really care that people think they are doing it wrong. Moving an inert mass (well put) takes a lot of different pressures. People are dying and the murderers are getting away with it. This is not recent but has peeked up recently. There really is no time to spend 6 years taking meetings. Do I want to see the debates interrupted? No I do not. Do I think the Dems will not be responsive? No I do not but they are working with government. How long can they be expected to wait and not scream as it continues?
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)I wouldn't want to hold that up as anything except one big fail on an epic scale.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=459825
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Look what happened. I am saying unless the dem candidates can offer people a reason to vote, we will lose and if the message is don't be rude when bringing issues forward then the dem party is headed to losing the WH.
I really do think Bernie is smarter than you give him credit. He did live it, he may not have natural political instincts but he knows a movement when he sees it. The last thing a campaign should do is disrespect the people vote they need to win.
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)and I thought he did well. At least all his time wasn't sucked up by the uninvited speakers who seemed to only want to talk about themselves.
I apologize for not getting your point the first time through, heh.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I support Bernie but he should hear this message and work it into his policies and program.
If Bernie thinks economic exploitation is the root of slavery, class oppression, and modern racism, then I agree with him but he would need to explain the connections more, instead of just giving unemployment statistics.
That could get a bit heavy for a campaign, so instead he could just talk more about police and criminal justice reform, and double the priority from where it is now.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)That would have also been a "way to be heard and maybe get their issues addressed".
Indeed, it seems to me that it would've been a much more effective way to do so. And if they weren't satisfied with the results of the meeting, then protests would make a little more sense.
They got it backwards, it seems
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)and they really shit in their hat on that one.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Cause something about this isn't right at all.
jfern
(5,204 posts)I don't think Sanders is going to waste his time talking to her. He could be having a rally with 12,000 potential supporters rather than someone who decided that he's their enemy.
BeyondGeography
(39,376 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)Kenjie
(122 posts)be careful what you wish for. Soon we will be sitting in rooms shouting over each other without any ideas being taken in and debated. This means that no issues get handled including some that may be the number one issue to the people doing the yelling. Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders both agree that there is a problem with race and with African American people being murdered in this country. Even when both candidates addressed the issue, the protesters continue to shout over them even before they had a chance to finish their points. For this reason I believe that disruption was the real goal of this group.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Just joking...well, except some of the time..
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Not impressed -- and it's kind of stupid to alienate candidates who are on your side.
4139
(1,893 posts)? He has 2 years left to act, if you are trying to get something done now, he's the guy.
Maybe blm has been protesting the president, and I missed it.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Never mind mouthing off to Presidential candidates, how about getting in the face of the guys that's actually in a position to do something about it RIGHT NOW!
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)When Sanders was challenged at the Netroots conference to address the issue of police killing blacks, he said that the criminal justice system is out of control and he talked about the need for community policing. Really, I don't know what he was supposed to do.
onecaliberal
(32,874 posts)to learn that Bernie has been fighting for the cause for 50 years. Alienating those who are on your side, does your cause no good. Sanders was going to meet with a BLM leaders who could have asked any question and received an honest answer. Why aren't they addressing their local leaders who can actually do something about this terrible problem.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)IF they had, then there would not be the systemic racism that leads to black people fearing for their lives every time they see flashing blue and red lights.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)They should be showing up at the Republican debates.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)They seem to want to derail the Democratic elections, and they are attacking the wrong candidates. They should be attacking Hillary because she represents the status quo.
Obama is doing none of what they demand either. When will they start heckling him too?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)because they matter a lot. and gotv, and registrations to vote, esp for young people. they could be pamphleting at colleges and places where young people go.
i know it is not as exciting as disrupting, but what is better to accomplish the goal?
crapping on the people fighting against the gop hate machine seems exceedingly counterproductive.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)but not by who they think.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You dismiss these people now, you lose the election.
It's that simple. If their issues are not addressed, there will be no way for a Democrat to win in 2016. Period.
Read my signature.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)without these obnoxious disruptions is baloney. A Democratic ham sandwich would beat this entire bunch of R clowns running.
That's not to say to "dismiss these people", as you say. The issues should still be addressed -there are more appropriate ways to protest and get noticed.
You can have the last word - I'm done with this.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Yeah, they said that in 2000, too.
oasis
(49,393 posts)elana i am
(814 posts)But following the event, Cullors said Sanders and other presidential hopefuls need to make black communities feel like they are not being sold something.
everything any candidate says on this issue from now on will be anything but authentic, organic, or very believable. from this day forward all it's going to be is selling, selling and more selling.
romanic
(2,841 posts)What is the purpose of "shutting it down" anyway? Nothing productive came out of "shutting down" highways and "shutting down" subways" and "shutting down" malls/public squares/the street corner/etc. All we got out of all this "shutting down" bullcrap is the MSM portraying the protestors as "anarchists", cops becoming even more aggressive to black folks, riots, and higher crime in mostly black areas with less policing.
Face it: SHUTTING SHIT DOWN DOESN'T FUCKING WORK!
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)By having more discussions, not less. Beware those who would limit the voices and concerns of the people.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Just what is it this strategy is supposed to accomplish?
Other than pissing off those that are already your allies?
I just don't understand and I see and hear zero attempt to explain it in a rational manner. All I see is clearly political opportunists screaming dirty nonsense in a sad attempt to use it as another weapon to beat down all but their chosen one.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)This one sure wasn't very effective.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Or guaranteed, the Democratic candidate WILL LOSE in 2016, and by a wide margin.
A significant portion of the black community WILL SIT OUT 2016 if Democratic candidates don't start offering real solutions to the problem. If that happens, there is no way for a Democratic candidate to win the general election.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)If that is indeed BLM's prime motive why did they not prepare a statement with a list of specific recommendations to achieve that end. All I heard was adolescent BS, specifically the inanity of repeatedly shouting "say her name". Utterly empty and a wasted opportunity too get their recommendations heard.
frylock
(34,825 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...I think that both O'Malley and Sanders would have done well to start saying the names of black people who have died in police custody -- starting with Sandra Bland.
It does feel like there is a movement starting, a movement of black Americans who have simply had it with the level of police violence routinely displayed against them. And I don't blame them. Whether it is more now, or just more publicized now, matters not one bit. The fact is, there is a contingent of police around the country who feel no hesitation at hurting or even killing black people, nor do they feel any remorse for it -- and they rarely suffer any punishment for it. They clearly view black people as lesser beings. The only way that can change is if we all insist that it change.
I admittedly adore Bernie Sanders as a candidate. He remains my choice in the primaries. I will not fault him for his reaction there, nor will I fault O'Malley. They were not prepared for it, that's all. Hopefully they take it in and recognize this for what it is, and react appropriately: people who are fed up and aren't going to sit quietly while their own are slaughtered, often with video for all of us to see -- and then watch the perps walk free, usually not even charged. This should not stand and it will not stand.
BTW I also will not fault Hillary for any of this, nor for her not attending NN. I suspect she will be subjected to such displays soon in other venues.
Activism can be annoying and unnerving. It can appear to be counter-productive. Sometimes we think "But look at all the progress we've made!" and wonder WTF they can be thinking. But you know what? What is happening to black people now IS extreme, and they have every right to bring it right to the forefront of the discussion, by any means necessary.
That's what I think.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)be a big priority during this election.
I hope they are planning this action at GOP events.
I believe this action/protest should Include the USDOJ/USAG's office, Senate (state legislatures too), House (state legislatures too) All 50 Governor's and yes, this presidents admin as well.
Not one single candidate can single handedly "do anything"...but for this group of activists, forcing debate Is democracy in motion. I hope they extend beyond Dem POTUS candidates.
There has been a whole lot of criticism offered about this, that and the other thing.......I'd like to know, What Would You Do if This Was Happening to You and Yours?
Remember, no matter who wins...that individual will absolutely Need a Working, sane Congress to accomplish progress for the Multiple Crises the GOP and a few Dems have wrought upon us and "our" society.
We have a lot of work to do (together) and time is wasting, imo.
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)they blew it.
Both Alinsky and M. L. King, Jr. were abundantly clear that protest was never an end in itself--it was a means to true dialogue (dialogue in the sense that it's interaction that leads to change) and power-sharing.
The Yippies seemed to miss that last part, and a lot of folks since then don't get it either. Standing in the street screaming, burning the American flag (which Alinsky hated as a tactic), disruption of events etc. may be very cathartic for its participants, perhaps even addictive.
But it doesn't do any good unless it is followed up by a seat at the table. Alinsky told the Yippies in Chicago to get organizing and get themselves elected delegates at the next Democratic convention and change the party from within.
Well, they didn't do that because organizing is hard and fighting with the cops and burning the American flag is easy.
As a result, the American people looked at Chicago and voted overwhelmingly for Richard Nixon. Great job, Yippies. Out fucking standing.
The first thing the Black Lives Matter people can do is get over themselves. This isn't a movement; this is a handful of ego-maniacs who know nothing about organizing for change.
After Netroots, they aren't getting within a country mile of another public venue, and that's entirely their own fault.
"Disrupt every debate," my ass.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)for ya.
ananda
(28,868 posts)Bernie Sanders is our great hope for all of humanity, including Blacks.
Hatchling
(2,323 posts)I may live in poverty with few resources but I've got white privileges written all over my face.
How POC decide how they must be heard is up to them.
And if they are calling Sanders out, I fully trust he can answer their concerns.
Btw, I support both.
olddots
(10,237 posts)N.T.
2banon
(7,321 posts)they don't want any debates either! Too bad BLM didn't bother to shut down CPAC though, wonder why?
I guess BLM just loves White Republican Racists Thugs, and can't wait until they're in full control to bring us back 150 years