Regarding The TPP and Obama’s Position, I ask this...

[busterbrown]

Why would Obama hurt or destroy his legacy of Healthcare, Immigration, LGBT Equality,and so many other successes....then have it all wiped out with his signature on the TPP Bill.

He’s not a stupid man.. in fact most consider him compassionate and empathetic.. Someone clear it up for me...

Remember Clinton has had the weight of NAFTA hanging around his neck for close to 20 yrs..
When I hear his name, no matter how much he has accomplished, the first thing I think about Clinton when I hear his name is NAFTA..

[MannyGoldstein]

1. And Clinton has suffered mightily

Cha-ching!

[busterbrown]

5. She’s gonna need every penny she can gather in..

order to fight the Brothers... Warren ain’t running, so Manny if you are as frightened as I am of a TBagger Congress, Presidency and Supreme Court, We could use your help..

[MannyGoldstein]

10. I was referring to Bill.

In the case of Hillary, I doubt if any amount of money can create good odds of her winning. Look at the drubbing that her fellow Third Wayers took in last November's elections.

It's likely that the Maginot Line of a campaign she's put together will work as well as the Maginot Line itself, and before primaries are over.

[busterbrown]

11. In my opinion can not conflate “Third Way Parties"

To Ms. Clinton...

Listen I love Elizabeth.. She is my first hero since Carter..

[still_one]

2. The problem is the details are not well known, and the media has done an extremely bad job of

discussing the pros and cons.

No suprise there though, Iraq had WMDs, at least that is what the media told us

[99th_Monkey]

9. And we all know where the Devil dwells

in those very "details", you know, the same details that we are being deliberately
kept in the dark about.

[still_one]

18. Yup

[msongs]

24. why blame media? they are not the one keeping it all a secret nt

[Hoyt]

3. Because the goals he's laid out for TPP will improve his legacy if he can achieve them.

If he can't, he won't submit a crummy agreement to Congress.

[Novara]

4. This is also what I wanna know

Why would Obama hurt or destroy his legacy of Healthcare, Immigration, LGBT Equality,and so many other successes....then have it all wiped out with his signature on the TPP Bill.

I just don't get it. It goes counter to a lot of his policy positions.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Because he was faking it all along ...

he did all that stuff so that the American people would let down our guards, then ... BAM!!!! ... into the fiery pit of hell to you silly rabbits!

[busterbrown]

8. Sound as Confused as I am.

I respect your opinions.. So whadaya think..

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. I think President Obama has announced the US' negotiating position ...

a position that is not the least bit as toxic as NAFTA ... in fact, if negotiated successfully, this agreement cures many of NAFTA's deficiencies.

From the Negotiating Objectives, this is NOT a deal that sells out American Labor, in fact, it virtually eliminates the basis for labor arbitrage, that bleed US jobs; rather, it will likely result in jobs returning to the US, as it re-shifts the labor-cost equilibrium back into the US' favor.

[Hoyt]

20. If Obama achieves these objectives -- and it will be tough -- we'll owe him tons of gratitude.

I admire the heck out of him for trying, in spite of the hostile criticism people are making. The man has guts.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Yes, he does ...

and I suspect, given how he (and his Administration) is acting, and the things happening around TPP, he has accomplished most of the Objectives.

However, if history is to serve as a guide, the agreement will establish the universal floor for wages and working conditions at, say $5.50/hr, 40 hr/wk, and people will ignorantly say, "$5.50/hr is starvation wages and will work to force down wages in the US", when the fact is, universal wages of $5.50/hr is significantly more than most of the trade partners' laborers are currently making, AND is at, if not close to, the labor-cost rate that would make labor arbitration, much less attractive.

[Hoyt]

23. Anything close to that would be monumental (Mt. Rushmore monumental too).

I hope your are right that he would not be as confident if he hasn't achieved his objectives.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. He would not be as forceful in pushing the FT ...

if he did not have a deal that was to his liking, and he would have been vocally opposed to the Congressional "victory" of 60 days and 4 months viewing period, if he was not optimistic that, once in view, people would realize there is no hair on fire there, there.

Now, as Momma 1SBM frequently warned, "there is many a slip between the cup and lip"; but, it appears that things are going right to his liking.

[99th_Monkey]

7. Great question. Why doesn't Obama just stonewall TPP now

and let the GOP greed-head corporatists and/or Hillary get the job done passing TPP?

Oh, that's right ... there are "deadlines" to meet. Got it.

Yet still, I'm baffled by Obama's hard-on for passage of TPP.
I can only HOPE he comes to CHANGE his mind on this, ASAP

[arcane1]

12. I assume he either believes in it, or it's payback for something else, or he's simply unaware.

If there's a 4th possibility, I haven't come up with it yet.

[busterbrown]

14. Obama unaware?

I doubt it...

[Hoyt]

13. If you are really interested, his goals have been stated on the USTR website and

here he is in a recent interview --

I believe Obama when he responded to Matt Yglesias a few weeks ago by saying:

"Where Americans have a legitimate reason to be concerned is that in part this rise has taken place on the backs of an international system in which China wasn't carrying its own weight or following the rules of the road and we were, and in some cases we got the short end of the stick. This is part of the debate that we're having right now in terms of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the trade deal that, you know, we've been negotiating. There are a lot of people who look at the last 20 years and say, 'Why would we want another trade deal that hasn't been good for American workers? It allowed outsourcing of American companies locating jobs in low-wage China and then selling it back to Walmart. And, yes, we got cheaper sneakers, but we also lost all our jobs.'"

"And my argument is two-fold. Number one: precisely because that horse is out of the barn, the issue we're trying to deal with right now is, can we make for a higher bar on labor, on environmental standards, et cetera, in that region and write a set of rules where it's fairer, because right now it's not fair, and if you want to improve it, that means we need a new trading regime. We can't just rely on the old one because the old one isn't working for us."

"But the second reason it's important is because the countries we're negotiating with are the same countries that China is trying to negotiate with. And if we don't write the rules out there, China's going to write the rules. And the geopolitical implications of China writing the rules for trade or maritime law or any kind of commercial activity almost inevitably means that we will be cut out or we will be deeply disadvantaged. Our businesses will be disadvantaged, our workers will be disadvantaged. So when I hear, when I talk to labor organizations, I say, right now, we've been hugely disadvantaged. Why would we want to maintain the status quo? If we can organize a new trade deal in which a country like Vietnam for the first time recognizes labor rights and those are enforceable, that's a big deal. It doesn't mean that we're still not going to see wage differentials between us and them, but they're already selling here for the most part. And what we have the opportunity to do is to set long-term trends that keep us in the game in a place that we've got to be. . . . . . ."

http://www.vox.com/a/barack-obama-interview-vox-conversation/obama-foreign-policy-transcript
___________________


While he doesn't get into it above, there are some non-trade reasons the TPP is important to our long-term future. Here are a couple of balanced articles by Ezra Klein and Jeff Spross that get into some of those:

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/13/8208017/obama-trans-pacific-partnership

http://theweek.com/articles/544250/what-workerfriendly-transpacific-partnership-look-like

[busterbrown]

15. Helps a lot.. Thanks..

[Novara]

16. Hm, so....

"But the second reason it's important is because the countries we're negotiating with are the same countries that China is trying to negotiate with. And if we don't write the rules out there, China's going to write the rules. And the geopolitical implications of China writing the rules for trade or maritime law or any kind of commercial activity almost inevitably means that we will be cut out or we will be deeply disadvantaged.

So we have to do it before they do? Well then, let's make it better. Well, wait - I can't really say that, as there's so much goddamn secrecy in it - who really knows what's in it?? Gah.

[Hoyt]

19. You are covered. You'll have the full document, assuming Obama endorses it, before Congress.

"The bill would make any final trade agreement open to public comment for 60 days before the president signs it, and up to four months before Congress votes. If the agreement, negotiated by the United States trade representative, fails to meet the objectives laid out by Congress — on labor, environmental and human rights standards — a 60-vote majority in the Senate could shut off “fast-track” trade rules and open the deal to amendment."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/business/obama-trade-legislation-fast-track-authority-trans-pacific-partnership.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Of course, most of the so-called "secret" document is already available.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Well ...

I can't really say that, as there's so much goddamn secrecy in it - who really knows what's in it??

The people saying:

But the second reason it's important is because the countries we're negotiating with are the same countries that China is trying to negotiate with. And if we don't write the rules out there, China's going to write the rules. And the geopolitical implications of China writing the rules for trade or maritime law or any kind of commercial activity almost inevitably means that we will be cut out or we will be deeply disadvantaged.

Know what's in it!

And further, I doubt many folks here would be able to decipher what is in it, if they had it on their desk.

[DCBob]

27. I believe he is being totally honest here..

and I agree with him.

[Hoyt]

28. I do too. I don't know if he can accomplish those goals, but glad he's trying despite crticism.

[DCBob]

29. I think this issue will be another of those where many thought he was wrong but turned out be right.

[Hoyt]

30. I'm hopie.

[blkmusclmachine]

26. http://www.billionairebelief.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/a-pile-of-money.jpg