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WhoIsNumberNone

(7,875 posts)
Tue May 22, 2012, 09:54 AM May 2012

It appears the Republicans ARE the problem after all...

From Alternet-

Today's GOP: Worst Political Party Since the Civil War

The last time things got this bad was about 150 years ago -- and we needed a Civil War to resolve it.


Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ornstein recently wrote a column for the Washington Post with a provocative headline: “Let’s just say it: The Republicans are the problem.” Their thesis was that they had never, in 40 years of observing Congress, seen the institution behave in such a dysfunctional manner. They wrote that while they had long found reasons to be critical of both Democrats and Republicans, things have changed and our current crisis is solely the fault of a Republican Party that "has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

The article went on to present extensive evidence to back their case. Nothing has signified these extreme tendencies more clearly than last summer's debt ceiling fiasco, where the Republicans acted so irresponsibly that Standard & Poor's felt compelled to downgrade America's hitherto gold-plated credit rating. In their press release, the ratings agency implicitly accused the Republicans of "brinksmanship" and said they had caused American governance and policymaking to become "less stable, less effective, and less predictable that we previously believed." They were particularly alarmed that the statutory debt ceiling had become a bargaining chip over fiscal policy.

Looking back at that debacle, Steve Benen recently wrote, "It was, to my mind, the worst thing an American major party has done, at least in domestic politics, since the Civil War."


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gordianot

(15,245 posts)
1. They openly attack Social Security an issue they avoided for decades.
Tue May 22, 2012, 10:15 AM
May 2012

A day of reckoning is coming over refusal of paying the debt ceiling by the very predatory criminals whom the GOP represents. Civil War is a reasonable description.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
2. Ignorant American pawns are the real problem...
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:00 AM
May 2012

The Republican machine manipulates voters, who lap it up like any other drug they crave.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
4. "Ignorant American pawns.." Spot on. Like that term.
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:15 AM
May 2012

It's as if people just don't want to read or understand facts. The majority of people are too busy with Dancing with the Stars, TMZ and American Idol. The only time they are exposed to art or history is when they go to their place of worship and then they are mostly propagandized with bigoted concepts that call people that don't share their beliefs either lost or evil.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
13. Yes, a big problem is that one does not need to hear differing points of view any more.
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:23 PM
May 2012

Just get their info from where they want and if they don't feel compelled to look up if it's true or not they go on their merry way believing all the lies and propaganda. Then repeat them to others even though if someone asked them to explain any of it they wouldn't be able to.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
3. If it's going to come down to a civil war...
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:11 AM
May 2012

Then it would be best if many on our side got over their aversion to guns. Civil wars are not won by non-violence.

Alcibiades

(5,061 posts)
5. It's overstated
Tue May 22, 2012, 12:15 PM
May 2012

Lots of folks on the left have no qualms about guns, but I do think we are less likely to fetishize them.

If it comes to that, there are more than enough guns to go around.

Moostache

(9,897 posts)
6. One should never confuse the facts...
Tue May 22, 2012, 12:31 PM
May 2012

Because I refuse to maintain a gun in my home with my children and wife as its most likely unintended targets does NOT mean I would have any problem whatsoever bearing arms outside of my home that would be used to vigorously defend them and the ideals that we hold dear as a family.

Today's Republican Party IS becoming reminiscent of the old South....overly sure that their bravado will win the day and utterly blind to the hatred of their positions and the lack of righteousness in their cause. They lost once before, and if ever comes to guns again, they will as surely lose the second time around - and THIS time during reconstruction I expect to see a lot more hangings for treason.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
8. They will be, if we try harder.
Tue May 22, 2012, 12:39 PM
May 2012

Perhaps people might learn. Maybe we can evolve, however, I don't think so, because we are dealing with a bunch of closed minded individuals.

Though I would have a problem using violence and guns, if I absolutely had to, I would hold my nose and do so.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
9. "Second Amemdment Remedy"
Tue May 22, 2012, 12:56 PM
May 2012

So far the voters have stopped short of actually electing these extreme members but it hasn't stopped the Republicans from nominating such extreme members so it means we are damn close and will happen in a "safe" red State.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
10. I wonder.....if the normal Lib aversion firearms is reversed
Tue May 22, 2012, 02:20 PM
May 2012

and a national mass buying from the libs becomes clearly noted in the media outlets, what the RW would think about that?

Would they strut like peacocks stating they are ready for the fight?

Would it be all bravado on the outside, but inside insecure and nervous realizing that they pushed the peace/love/groove group to the brink?

Feel the same type of discomfort the Libs feel when the RW nutties parade around at public rallies, wearing their guns strapped to the thigh?

Would they decide that indiscriminate multiple gun ownership, m-15 , ak-47 etc should have a few regulation after all?

SpankMe

(2,969 posts)
11. I think an armed civil war is unlikely and undesirable.
Tue May 22, 2012, 02:20 PM
May 2012

What'll have to happen instead is an organized migration of populations in America that will establish firmly blue states - either severally, or in groups - that will pass laws and adopt standards by overwhelming voter margins and effectively create special federal districts that would be largely autonomous from the national government. (A hybrid of the way Scotland relates to the rest of the UK, where it is still part of the UK but has it's own parliament and executive.)

I know we're already supposed to have this (in the form of "states" with their "legislatures" and "governors&quot . But, we need a system where districts are even more independent, or "devolved", from the federal government and are allowed to interpret the federal constitution in their own way without the messiness of secession.

The way the conservative movement is going (and winning) I can't see any hope that national laws will stay moderate and not trample on the rights of states. I know that "states rights" is the mating call of the conservative and is code for all kinds of nasty, segregationist bullshit. But now that the conservative movement is re-engineering federal law to threaten states' abilities to regulate their own air and water quality, impose rules on financial institutions, protect civil rights, guarantee reproductive rights, address gun problems, etc., I'm afraid it might be time for some hyper-federalism so we can still have a place in America for modern, progressive Americans to go and live happy, productive lives.

For a start, I'd like to see the whole California-Oregon-Washington sub-nation come into play. A program could be implemented where conservatives would be incentivized to move east to Arizona, Utah and Texas and progressives come to the west coast (some kind of property swap deal). We'd get it so that every elected official in the three Pacific states - congressional reps, senators, legislators, governors, mayors, city councils, everything - is Democratic or progressive leaning. They'd represent a solid block - geographically and otherwise - in Washington to implement and preserve this devolution. We can move forward and have a civilized, enlightened and compassionate society.

The cons can have the South and turn it back into the American west of the 1850's where there was weak law, and big business (i.e., railroad baron types) ran everything and all of the wealth was in the hands of a fraction of the people while the rest toiled in poverty and near-slavery. They can ban gays and abortion and civil rights and environmental protection and dissolve church-state separation and totally neutralize workers rights. They can implement the full-on police state and quash dissent all they want. They can call themselves "confederates" while we progressives will still be called Americans.

Beer Snob-50

(6,676 posts)
7. i believe the term "scornful of comprise" is the republican party's greatest sin
Tue May 22, 2012, 12:37 PM
May 2012

government and society as a whole does not operate well when we will not comprise. that is why we were graded in elementry school on playing well with others.

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