Obama and prosecution of the Bush administration for war crimes:

[hedgehog]

A little history:

Republicans are convinced that JFK stole the election. As a result, they feel justified in using every dirty trick from gerrymandering districts to going to the Supreme Court.

Republicans are convinced that the pending impeachment of Nixon that forced him to resign was all about politics As a result, they felt justified in impeaching Clinton over nonsense.

Some Republicans are already talking about impeaching Obama and charging him in criminal court. If Obama prosecuted anyone from the Bush Administration for war crimes, Republicans would go after every living Democratic President as soon as a Republican President took office. In the meantime, for the next 2 years, we'd go through shut-down after shut-down as the Republicans make the last 6 years look like hearts and roses.

Prosecuting a former President for crimes in office is unprecedented. Vice President Agnew was allowed to resign instead of being prosecuted for taking bribes as VP. I think that if/when the American people overwhelmingly demand it, then the war crime trials will begin.

I am ambivalent about the World Court taking this on. On the one hand, none of these men would ever be able to leave the country ever again. On the other hand, jingoism and distrust of the World Court might have the side effect of immunizing the criminals from prosecution here.

[GeorgeGist]

1. they win

you lose.

[on point]

2. There s a huge difference between impeaching Obama over delusions and Bush over war crimes!

Last edited Thu Dec 11, 2014, 03:03 PM - Edit history (1)

The whole suggestion of this pier is sick. We cannot prosecute the Republicans for their crimes because they will imagine it was for political reasons?

What utter nonsense.

They must be held to account and if the come back with revenge tactics then called out for it so they destroy themselves.

you might as well say the civil war was not about slavery but because the north wanted to do it for political reasons and to this the day the south harbors hatred. That may be true, but doesn't mean it wasn't necessary and the southern hatred shown up to be lingering racism.

[hedgehog]

3. I think it's a matter of pragmatism and going for the greater good.

Like it or not, the Republicans haven't imploded yet. They managed to get Nixon, Reagen, Bush 1 and Bush 2 into the Presidency and are seriously considering Bush 3. Any attempt to go for a prosecution without the massive support of the American people may fail to convict, and the Republicans will take vengeance.

I've seen this before. I listened to the entire Iran-Contra hearings on the radio. The Senators involved certainly heard damning testimony, but the American people never understood what had happened. Oliver North saw his conviction overturned because he had testified before Congress, And Ronny went on to sainthood.

Since you bring up the Civil War, look what happened there. As far as I know, none of the politicians who took the South into secession and war were ever prosecuted. There are even serious speculations that the Confederate government had something to do with Booth's conspiracy to murder Lincoln. Some Northern politicians were enraged at this leniency, but the general consensus was that it would be better for all if certain things were set aside.

In our case, how many lives have been saved because people were able to finally buy health insurance? How many people are back to work because Obama was able to get some initiatives past Congress?

It's not pretty, but you have to make the best out of a bad situation. Obama didn't have a choice whether or not to prosecute these men. What he had was a choice between prosecuting them ( and possibly losing) and every other thing he's accomplished as President.


I was reminded by this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014962571

that we have gone after the torture machine at least once before. I think the Russian invasion of Afghanistan allowed the monster back in. It began by allowing our "allies" in Afghanistan to torture POWs. We knew about it and did nothing.


We have one chance at getting this done right, or it will all be forgotten in a few years. “When you strike at a king you must kill him.”

[mother earth]

4. Obama opened himself up to charges for NOT dealing with Cheney/Bush war crimes, he further

set himself up for this backlash by pursuing pardons for the whole gang.

There are moments in history, our lives, that present opportunity and decisions made affect our lives from thereon, sadly, by ignoring the "elephants" in the room (pun intended), the stage has been set. These are crimes that cannot be ignored, in light of the fact that we are THE superpower, if these things are ok for our country, then there is no rule of law, we have no right to demand better.

We were once a light unto the world, where we go from here defines us, each of us.

[hedgehog]

5. If he offered pardons, I had forgotten that.

If he offered pardons, that was wrong.

[mother earth]

6. I think they were actually granted, anyone know? From what I've read concerning the issue of not

pursuing investigations on the outgoing administration in 2008, legally he set himself up for this. It's an incredibly sad thing that this nation has sunk to this, but I'm encouraged that today we are looking at this and something will come of this. This stain against us has to be dealt with in a way that only we can find redemption in. We've gone against all that we once stood for.

The Bush admin did so knowingly. GWB himself sought pardons for his gang while he was in office. He knew this day was coming.

In my eyes, this isn't only about the torture, our nation was lied into war. Isn't that considered treason?
------------------

Published on Aug 22, 2013
Obama's DOJ has requested that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted immunity in a case that is alleging that they violated international law with the Iraq War...
Obama Requests Immunity for War Criminal George W. Bush

[hedgehog]

7. I have the Brennan press conference on in the other room.

Brennan said the Justice Department couldn't find grounds for prosecution. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

Which raises another question - did the Obama Justice Department have all the information in the Senate Report?

[mother earth]

10. Let's face it, the reports never are "complete" and the lies have been unprecedented, so

there is that. And then you have terms used to cleanse what amounts to rape via "rectal hydration".

[mother earth]

8. From 2008: GWB – War Crime Pardons, Initiated by GWB (CNN Coverage)

From 2008: GWB – War Crime Pardons, Initiated by GWB (CNN Coverage)

[hedgehog]

9. That's worth it's own posting!

[mother earth]

11. It's like all the pieces of a puzzle from the GW "selections" and the

wars are fitting into a full picture now...all these years, it's now finally in focus.