Hillary Clinton's Phantom Presence in 2016 Campaign Freezes Other Democrats

[question everything]

Hillary Clinton's phantom presence in the Democratic presidential-nomination stakes—neither in nor out—is freezing the rest of the field, creating formidable obstacles for other candidates needing to raise money and set up an organization.

When advisers to a fundraising group backing a prospective 2016 Clinton bid came calling in late January, hedge-fund manager and political heavyweight Orin Kramer said he met them in his New York office and agreed to write a check. When another potential candidate, Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley, tried to reach him, Mr. Kramer said he didn't take the call.

"She's Gladys Knight and all the rest of them are the Pips," said Robert Zimmerman, a longtime Democratic donor, comparing Mrs. Clinton with potential opponents from both parties.

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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304441304579479372469573430

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I am torn. On the one hand I did support her in 2008 but would like to have real primaries.

On the other hand, if her candidacy can assure us of keeping the White House, especially if we may lose the Senate, than let's roll.

[Beacool]

1. This quote says it all.

"She's Gladys Knight and all the rest of them are the Pips"

[cheapdate]

2. Hillary Clinton is thoroughly conventional

in her political outlook. Mildly hawkish by some standards. She's moderately liberal in several areas. Believes that the fundamental arrangement between businesses, corporations, the government, and the public is essentially sound. Believes that "government/corporate partnerships" are a good deal, etc., etc.

In short, DU will absolutely f%$king hate her. Half of DU will completely lose their minds if she's elected.

But like you said :

"...if her candidacy can assure us of keeping the White House, especially if we may lose the Senate, then let's roll."

Absolutely right.

[question everything]

3. What is important is to go and vote, even if one has to hold one's nose

Several cycles back, someone on DU - wish I remember who - said that if he wanted a candidate with whom he agrees 100 percent, he would run himself.

We cannot afford to lose the Supreme Court. The youngest Justices are Republicans. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 80 and in poor health, though she is determined to hang around. Stephen Breyer is 74. On the other hand, Thomas is 65, Alito is 64 and Roberts is 59. Only Kagan is younger - 54.

[cheapdate]

5. My ideal candidate might be someone like Wendell Berry or Derrick Jensen,

someone who cares deeply about sustainability. I'd prefer to vote for someone who would wage war against powerful corporations, fully restore normal relations with Cuba, and decriminalize marijuana nationwide.

But the fact is that my ideal candidate would be absolutely unelectable -- Green Party candidate Jill Stein received less than one-half of one percent of the vote and she's far less radical than my ideal.

So I vote for Democrats or whoever most closely represents my values.

And I don't "hold my nose". I recognize that Hillary Clinton has different ethics, beliefs and perspective from mine. That's okay. I'll change what I can and fight for the rest. And I won't give an inch to the other side if I can help it.

[stevenleser]

10. I'm one of the folks who said "if I wanted.. 100% I would run myself". Not sure if I was first.

But I agree with that sentiment.

I think too many people have a very short term view of politics. Even if one only votes for Hillary to hold the White House for Democrats for another 8 years it is important for two reasons.

1 - The SCOTUS, as you aptly describe

2 - The Demographics continue to change in a way that is very favorable to Democrats/Liberals and extremely bad for Republicans.

What #2 means is that by 2024, Democrats could nominate a ham sandwich for President and probably win. That is the election in which to nominate a Progressive. If Hillary only maintains the status quo on most issues for 8 years, we win in the end.

What you don't want to do is nominate someone in 2016 who might lose. Then a Republican gets in potentially with a Republican congress and passes all kinds of laws and does everything possible to move the needle to the right including SCOTUS judges that do things like what the judges have done over the past couple of years that make it easier for Rich people to sway elections to conservatives. That's the thing we need to worry about in the short term.

[Beacool]

7. Yep, you said it.

"In short, DU will absolutely f%$king hate her. Half of DU will completely lose their minds if she's elected."

They already do. The same goes for her husband.

[blkmusclmachine]

4. Another old Blue Dog. Queen of the DLC. Third Way stooge. "New" Democrat. ConservaDem. Corporatist.

No no no no no no no

[polichick]

6. Very few comments - guess that says something.

[question everything]

8. It does. Hillary was never popular on DU

One reason is pure sexism. During the 2008 campaign, someone here was actually honest enough to admit that she reminded him of his mother. And not a good association, one could conclude.

And the comments about her makeup, her hair, her "thick ankles " - by Carl Bernstein of the Watergate fame; the comments about her pantsuits - by Leno and Letterman - were appalling.

And, in general, DU is more left of center than the party as a whole, certainly than the country.

So it goes back to the basic question: even if our candidate - whoever s/he is - is not your preferred one, will you go out to vote, in both 2014 and 2016? (Not you personally, only a figure of speech). Can our "leftist" members learn the lesson of 1968 - when so many anti war voters stayed home because Humphrey was not "pure" enough and we got Nixon? Can they learn the lesson on 2000 when they voted for Nader?

I have never "ignored" anyone on DU, but, apparently, I was on the ignore list of many in 2008 because I supported Hillary. Worse, I was "offered" to quit DU because I pointed out that Hillary won the Massachusetts primaries, even though both senators - Kennedy and Kerry, endorsed Obama.

Thankfully, when it comes to the big picture, DU is but a small cog as far as elections results go.

[polichick]

9. Actually she was popular - there were tons of Hillary supporters here...

during the run-up to 2008. Have they abandoned ship - or have more people started to realize that Third Way means RepubliCon (whether we're talking HRC or Obama)?

[Beacool]

11. They abandoned ship.

They got tired of the anti-Clinton prevalent sentiment on this site and moved on to friendlier places. There are only a few of us diehards left here.

[joshcryer]

16. They did not. The PUMA purge hit maybe a dozen or two posters.

It is incorrect to say that us Clinton supporters abandoned ship. We merely sided with the selected candidate, as is always what we should do.

We'll see if that happens in 2016.

[Beacool]

18. There are quite a few who got sick of the nastiness and did leave.

The PUMA nonsense was only a handful of people. To this day the Clintons are treated like crap on this site. This is not about Obama, this is about how one of the two most popular couples in the party are treated on a supposed Democratic site.

[Beacool]

12. Hear, hear!!

Don't forget MSNBC, they trashed her endlessly in favor of their preferred candidate. I still won't watch them regularly.

The worst one was Chris Matthews. His sexism reached a creepy level, but not far behind were Shuster and Olbermann. A pox on all of them!!!

[question everything]

13. Yes, funny to watch Chris Matthews squirm

"Women in my age want her to be the next president." He is showing all the polls showing her ahead of every possible Republican and then add... would be nice to have more candidates.

I kinds watch the first few minutes of his show. In the past several weeks it is Christie all the time. And the way he shouts I wonder whether he will have a heart attack on air.

[Beacool]

14. Tweety is a sexist jerk.

Examples of what he called Hillary in 2008: Nurse Ratchet, She Devil and some other similar charming monikers.

He also said that the only reason why she was a senator and a presidential candidate was because her husband had "messed around". It's the 21st century and we still have to hear crap like that. That night I felt like kicking his balls until they exploded, the lisping creep!!!

[joshcryer]

15. I remember.

I remember people saying Clinton was trying to force a convention crisis. Force Obama to make her VP, say that she won the popular vote (she did, but never said it), that she boxed Obama in for the SoS position, whole nine yards.

Clinton had a lot of flubs, mainly because if a man exaggerates or messes up his statements, the media doesn't scrutinize. If a woman does the same, makes an exaggeration, shows emotion, messes up the facts, she'll be scorned as a liar.

Fortunately, as you say, DU is hardly a mover of politics. It's more of a liberal platform for people to express themselves, but the Democratic Party is local, grassroots. It's not represented by a forum on the internet.

[Beacool]

19. Don't remind me.

When her voice cracked in NH, the media went crazy. She's crying to get votes, blah, blah. Never mind that she didn't actually cry. There have been countless male politicians who have cried in public and no one cared (including her husband and Bush). Sexist crap.......

[JI7]

20. Obama wasn't popular on DU either

kucinich and edwards had far more support than clinton and obama combined.

[Whisp]

21. Iraq War Vote, Honduras Coup, Tuzla, McCain is better than Obama... etc., etc.,

and more etcs...,

There is more than enough without making it sound she lost because of sexism. No doubt sexism is rampant and we all know that by just witnessing what some DU feminists have to go through (and so is racism and every ism known), but the bottom line is Hillary will not lose because of sexism, she will lose because of what she has done and said.

[joshcryer]

17. Do not forget the SCOTUS.

It is paramount we have a Democratic President in 2016. Beyond imagination that we give it up.