UPDATED 10/10 White House: Obama Will Never Negotiate On The Debt Limit Again

[savalez]

Last edited Thu Oct 10, 2013, 12:49 PM - Edit history (3)

OCTOBER 7, 2013, 2:13 PM EDT
White House spokesman Jay Carney said Monday that lifting the debt ceiling will be non-negotiable for as long as Barack Obama is president.

"Whether it's today, or a number of weeks from now, or a number of months from now, or a number of years from now, it will always be Congress's responsibility to raise our debt ceiling so that the United States can pay the bills that Congress has incurred," he told reporters during his daily briefing.

"It will always be, as long as he's president, President Obama's position that that responsibility is not negotiable. That there's not a game of trading for political priorities or agenda items that Republicans have not been able to achieve through legislation or the ballot box."

Carney said the White House supports efforts in the Senate to pass a "clean" debt limit hike.

Source: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/white-house-obama-will-never-negotiate-on-the-debt-limit-again

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Nice to see the WH making this clear. Boehner, take note.

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*UPDATE 10/8

OCTOBER 8, 2013, 11:37 AM EDT
President Obama called House Speaker John Boehner on Tuesday morning to repeat that he wouldn't negotiate on a government spending bill or a debt-limit increase, according to Boehner's office.

The call took place at about 10:45 a.m. ET.

"The president called the speaker again today to reiterate that he won't negotiate on a government funding bill or debt limit increase," Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said in a statement.

Source: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-calls-boehner-to-repeat-he-won-t-negotiate

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In other words, Boehner, shove your latest Super Committee idea up your keaster.


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*UPDATE 10/10

OCTOBER 10, 2013, 8:26am
WH: The President has made clear that he will not pay a ransom for Congress doing its job and paying our bills. It is better for economic certainty for Congress to take the threat of default off the table for as long as possible, which is why we support the Senate Democrats’ efforts to raise the debt limit for a year with no extraneous political strings attached. The President also believes that the Republican Leadership in the House should allow for an up or down vote on the clean continuing resolution passed by the Senate that would pass with a bipartisan majority to reopen the government.

Once Republicans in Congress act to remove the threat of default and end this harmful government shutdown, the President will be willing to negotiate on a broader budget agreement to create jobs, grow the economy, and put our fiscal house in order. While we are willing to look at any proposal Congress puts forward to end these manufactured crises, we will not allow a faction of the Republicans in the House to hold the economy hostage to its extraneous and extreme political demands. Congress needs to pass a clean debt limit increase and a funding bill to reopen the government.

Source: http://huff.to/1bJCkIP

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In other words, Boehner, take your 6 week plan and shove it up Cantor's keaster.

[Peacetrain]

1. YES!

There is nothing to negotiate with.. again.. the republicans (like with Obamacare or ACA) are choosing things where there is no there there..

There is nothing to negotiate on the debt ceiling. The HOUSE voted for all the items.. they are the ones that ran up the bill.. and now they do not want to pay for it..

[riqster]

46. Obama threw the steering wheel out of the window.

That's the only way to win at a game of chicken. Good on him.

Now the Reeps have to turn, or risk a collision.

[Peacetrain]

59. Ah YEP!

that is the truth. I am very happy to see him stare them down.

[Laelth]

2. Excellent! k&r for President Obama.

Lots of us are quite tired of negotiation. While that's essential to government in a Republic, on the issue of the full faith and credit of the United States, we should not succumb to blackmail.

-Laelth

[Cha]

3. K&R.. thanks savalez!

[savalez]

34. You are welcome. n/t

[sheshe2]

4. K&R!

[BrotherIvan]

5. The President must know he's winning

I am standing firmly behind him and applaud this stance. This is how you do it!

[Hydra]

6. Thank you! Finally!

to the GOP: Kindly STFU.

[dreamerBoy]

7. EASY MUST READ "Inside the GOP" (Dem research)

You cannot hope to understand why the GOP is acting the way it is without understanding what's going on inside ...

http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor%20rpp%20fg%20memo%20100313%20final.pdf

[Laelth]

9. Excellent post. Thank you.

Here's a key nugget from the report:

the base thinks they are losing politically and
losing control of the country

That's absolutely true, and I am glad, in a way, that conservatives know it. What they intend to do about it remains to be seen. Let us hope they don't take us all down with them.

-Laelth

[Laelth]

11. More from the report:

And while few explicitly talk about Obama in racial terms, the base supporters are very conscious of being white in a country with growing minorities. Their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities. Race remains very much alive in the politics of the Republican Party.

This report is, indeed, essential reading. It should be an OP of its own (presuming it has not been posted here previously).

-Laelth

[dreamerBoy]

20. Please re-post as new thread -

I am a new member and don't have enough "seniority".

[Laelth]

23. Done. n/t

-Laelth

[byronius]

32. This deserves its own post. Powerful, disturbing -- my god these people are so effing ignorant.

[L0oniX]

47. Enjoyable reading ...but we also have a little fragmentation over any cuts to SS Medicaid Medicare..

and military adventures. We are aligned with them on the big government when it comes to military spending and trade deals.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

8. Take that to the bank...

BONER

[Southside]

10. I Wish every living President would cosign his policy

I don't know if this is setting a precedent, but I'm sure all future Presidents will thank President Obama for establishing this doctrine.

Thank you for the post. I am proud of my President.

Keeping my fingers crossed that social security will be paid on time, that Head Start is restored, the disabled and veterans are cared for. For the first time Boehner is scaring me into thinking he will do anything to keep his coalition together. GOP Please open up the government so people in need are supported.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

12. Can't get more emphatic than this

[SDjack]

13. Speaker Cruz: The ball just bounced in your court. nt

[mckara]

14. 1000+

[Thunderbeast]

15. OK....Let's Negotiate.....

The Tea/GOP/Oligarchy is willing to drive the country off a cliff to keep their campaign contributions flowing. They whine that the President won't negotiate in this environment.

They claim the constitutional "power of the purse" as the rationale for the authority to hold the nation hostage.

I propose negotiations.

The President should call a joint session of Congress and announce that as "Commander in Chief" he has the authority to manage the Armed Forces in time of war (remember the War on Terror?) without further congressional oversight.

As Commander in Chief, the President should order the sinking of one aircraft carrier each week until the Congress passes a clean, lasting budget resolution and debt ceiling authorization. One military base in a red state should also be closed permanently each week. This is a rational accommodation (compromise) to the Republican demands for reduced spending.

This seems to be a reasonable approach to the problem. A pox on the Republicans if they don't come to the table to negotiate.

[trof]

16. BRAVO!

[MyOwnPeace]

30. OMG!!!

THAT is brilliant!

[calimary]

53. I also think we should start going after Congress's "authority" to oversee the budget.

They have completely, absolutely, and categorically proven that they are way too reckless and irresponsible to handle a job that important! I have another thread about it here, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023808946

I would appreciate people's feedback on this. What do you think? I think it's time we put brass knuckles on.

[Skittles]

17. so THIS is what it took

better late than never I suppose

[AzDar]

18. 'Bout damned time!

[ffr]

44. +1 +1000

America loves a president who stands his ground. This can only be good news for us all.

[dreamerBoy]

19. Destroying ACA is all about keeping labor weak and docile in the South

Tea Partiers are NOT ignorant, irrational hicks. They know exactly what they're doing and they're going about it in a very rational way.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/06/tea_party_radicalism_is_misunderstood_meet_the_newest_right/

[lonestarnot]

43. So tell me if you will, what is so very rational about what teajadists are doing or how they are

going about it?

[kairos12]

21. The GOP has weaponized the Debt Ceiling

Stamp that weapon out now, or be continually faced with this weapon on every budget negotiation.

Do not give one inch.

[SunSeeker]

38. +1

[Uncle Joe]

22. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, savalez.

[Dalai_1]

24. K&R n/t

[tosh]

25. K&R!

[neffernin]

26. We can all high five and say the president is winning

Last edited Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

but in all honesty I can't help but feel everyone is losing. The GOP, Obama, the DNC, congress, senate, the US Population. Tourists, illegal immigrants, the world economy. Maybe the GOP are losing more than some others, but really we are the ones who are losing the most.

I suppose one could be optimistic and hope that the extra blame that the GOP shares will somehow translate into congressional seats during the next mid-term but that's still a far way out. People forget quickly. We don't, I understand, but your normal uneducated voter.

As it stands, I'd like to see ANY Republican take the stand and give a good, concise explanation as to why getting rid of Obamacare is better than shutting down the government.

Or see them explain that it is Obama's fault for not listening to the minority.

What happened to majority rule? The more-powerful-than-they-should-be tea party.

My approval rating of this circus we call a government has been low for ages, but if we, the people, continue to elect these clowns into office how does that make Americans any better?

Bah, fed up!

[moriah]

36. Don't you mean ...

... "explanation as to why shutting down the government is better than keeping Obamacare"?

I think what people are happy about is to see our President show his backbone. Of course, we're all losing.

[neffernin]

55. Either way I can't help but feel it equates to minority rule

and has for some time now. If the president using some of his executive power while in the majority is something so praiseworthy I can't help but feel we took the wrong path a long time ago.

Thanks for pointing out my switchup; did not register during the proof-reading phase

Lets hope this is the start to something meaningful!

[moriah]

57. What kind of "executive power" is he using?

I'm a little confused here, and I'd love it if you'd go into more detail and explain what you mean.

There's a difference between showing leadership and waving executive power around willy-nilly, which is what you seem to be accusing our President of doing. I don't see it that way.

[neffernin]

63. The power given to him as president

and leader of the executive branch.

"The veto power gives the executive a central role in the legislative process. By threatening a veto before legislation is passed, the executive can force the legislature to compromise and pass amendments it would otherwise find unacceptable. Though there is great power in the veto, most executives use it cautiously, as overuse can antagonize the legislature and create political risk for the executive."

So, by threatening to veto any debt ceiling bill that comes across that isn't at least remotely clean, Obama is using his executive power to sway the argument. In no way is it trivial, it is integral to the process and about f'ing time.

I'm no expert though. Hell, I have little to no faith in our government at all anymore.




Quote from:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Presidential+veto

[moriah]

64. You seemed to be critical of him using it.

Which is why I asked.

Now, you're saying he should have used it.

[Pab Sungenis]

45. Concern duly noted.

[DCBob]

27. Excellent. However, I think this suggests they have a plan b.. just in case.

[lonestarnot]

42. Yes. I would they could share the rest of it now.

[NastyRiffraff]

28. Thank you, Mr President!

As Obama has said, over and over, the debt limit is non-controversial. It merely authorizes paying for what Congress has already authorized. How the hell do you negotiate over that? You either pay your bills, or you don't. Negotiation isn't even an option.

I am so happy Obama is putting his foot down. This is the way it's done.

[Igel]

40. "Authorized" versus "made mandatory."

There's the rub.

I've had budget authority to spend certain amounts. Never was spending those amounts required.

The claim has to be that spending the authorized amounts is required--otherwise there'd be ways available to the Executive to reduce spending and uphold the Constitution that are apparently assumed not to exist.

[Jim Lane]

54. That may not be a hard-and-fast distinction.

You write, "The claim has to be that spending the authorized amounts is required...."

That argument could be based on the Impoundment Act of 1974. Nixon had urged Congress to kill a particular program or project that he opposed. Congress disagreed and kept it alive. Nixon then simply refused to spend the money that had been appropriated. In response, Congress made the practice illegal.

I've been surprised not to see more in the media about the Impoundment Act in connection with the debt-ceiling discussions. Although I'm no expert on the federal budget process, it seems at least possible that Congressional action and inaction could create contradictory obligations on the President -- doesn't have the money to spend, not allowed to borrow it, and not allowed to NOT spend it.

Of course, this is assuming that the context of the debt-ceiling crisis is that Congress has passed appropriations bills that trigger the Impoundment Act. We have our current government-shutdown crisis precisely because Congress has not passed appropriations bills, or a temporary continuing resolution. For that reason, the resolution of next week's artificial debt-ceiling crisis might depend in part on the resolution of last week's artificial continuing-resolution crisis.

The longer-term resolution depends on enough voters understanding how totally unacceptable that preceding sentence is.

[AAO]

29. I'm so happy!!

[hue]

31. Awesome!!! Thanks President Obama!!!

[Drahthaardogs]

33. Good job Mr. President.

Pin this on their happy asses!

[TBF]

35. Excellent. K&R nt

[Nanjing to Seoul]

37. The GOP is so backed into a corner it isn't funny. Good work, Booze Cruz

[SunSeeker]

39. K & R

[truebluegreen]

41. Well, that's GREAT!

Too bad his pattern of negotiating made everyone think that he would, and will!

[caseymoz]

48. Too late.

The situation is out of control now.

If he had listened his faithful critics on the left when the Repubs first started this extortion, we likely wouldn't be facing the crumbling of the world economy now.

But, better late than never. It's better he take this position now.

[lostincalifornia]

52. no, the course had to be taken now, not then. Too much could have happened in the first

term which may not have allowed the second term.

Being the second term, there is nothing to lose.

In addition, the republicans took the first 4 years to demonstrate their disdain for women, civil rights, and yes, democracy

Now they have just jumped off the cliff and there is a very real potential that until they remove the tea party from their power structure that they will be out of power for a long time

[caseymoz]

56. Bad news is, they've taken us off the cliff with them.

Along with the world. I'm sorry, I don't see them backing down from this, not until the world around them is rubble.

[lostincalifornia]

58. I agree there will be a lot of people hurt, but I also believe most people know who is to blame

[99th_Monkey]

49. I'm proud to stand with POTUS on this one. BravObama!!! Don't give an inch to the ReThugs. ~nt

[Dawgs]

50. 4 years too late, but woohoo!!!

[lostincalifornia]

51. If boehner does not allow a vote, and we default, this will determine 2014

[savalez]

60. Kick

updated 10/10

[Pretzel_Warrior]

61. Pre did not rule out accepting a six week CR

It would be to Republicans' advantage to extend it out longer, but they're just too stupid to realize it.

[savalez]

62. That's not what the WH said.

I added the source. http://huff.to/1bJCkIP