Is anyone framing the threatened shutdown as a constitutional crisis?

[thucythucy]

A minority within the House of Representatives is seeking to repeal or amend a bill that was passed by a previous majority in the House, a super-majority in the Senate (where 60 votes were needed to end debate), signed by the President, and upheld as constitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States. They are seeking to do this without winning anything close to a majority of both houses of the Congress, let alone winning the President's signature.

Doesn't threatening to shut down the government unless certain legislation is amended or repealed undermine certainly the spirit, if not the letter, of Article I?

How can a minority within a minority of one house of one branch of government force an entire Congress and administration to amend or repeal previously passed legislation (and to repudiate previously incurred debts and obligations), without it being a constitutional crisis?

My thought is that if President Obama backs down on this, it will constitute a profound change in how the federal government will function far into the future. We will have, essentially, a parliamentarian system, where an administration, that is to say a previous presidential election, will be rendered moot due to a "vote of no confidence,"--except such a vote doesn't have to have a majority of either house of the "parliament," and there will be no provision for early elections.

This threatens chaos.

So why isn't this a constitutional crisis?

[grasswire]

1. I was just thinking that.

It is.

And they don't dislike chaos.

In chaos, they see opportunity.

[thucythucy]

6. I agree.

But chaos has a nasty way of biting in the ass those folks who provoke it without thinking.

[davidpdx]

2. Remember though that the budget only defunds the ACA not overturns it

The actual legislation would still be in place. Also the ACA was passed in a previous Congressional session (though probably 90% of the same people are probably still there).

I can't see strategically how the Republicans are going to "win" by threatening to defund something they failed to overturn 40+ times. The only way would be if Obama blinks. I don't think he will. The ACA was one of his biggest accomplishments of his first term and he needs that to go into effect.

Yes, it is going to be chaos. I'm not convinced it is a constitutional crisis.

[thucythucy]

5. Yes, that's an important distinction

and may be why the "constitutional crisis" aspect of this hasn't gained traction.

Even so, it represents I think a thread to the way our national business has been carried on in the past. So we let the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stand, but refuse to fund any part of the Justice Dept. that enforces it?

I'm hoping President Obama doesn't blink as well. If he does, I think he'll be politically gutted for the rest of his presidency.

The next few weeks are going to be very interesting.

Best wishes, and thanks for your comment.

[Blue Meany]

3. In some respects, it is worse than a constitutional crisis.

It could be the beginning of a change in the culture of governing, which, if it takes hold in both parties will render the country ungovernable. I don't think there is a constitutional remedy for that.

It must be tempting for Senate Democrats to fire back in kind. They could accept the amendments, and stipulate that Obama care should be implemented by the states and funded by a 90% income tax on millionaires until such time as it is implemented by the federal govt. But the political mature thing is to stand firm and try to reinforce the unwritten rules for Congressional operations--and for that matter civil society--in order to avoid the major troubles down the road.

[dem in texas]

4. Yes, I see it that way, too

The ACA was passed by both houses and signed by the president. It withstood a challenge that went all the way to the Supreme court and failed. It is the law of the land and must stand. If the republicans don't like it, they can pass laws and amendments to change it through both houses that the president will sign. This is how our Democracy works. Anything else can't fly. ACA is a done deal! it can't be shut down. Trying to defund it is in violation of what was passed.

It burns me up when I hear Cruz and Boehner saying that the American people are against this bill. Obama was returned to office by a large majority. Many more Democrats voted than republicans. The only reason some of the reps are still in office is that they are in gerrymandered districts.

I hope with all my heart that Ted Cruz will crash and burn as a result of this debacle. I am ashamed that he is from Texas. I certainly didn't vote him. I think John Boehner will go down in history as a terrible leader of the house. He has a chance to be hero, but his thinking is too small for that.

[blkmusclmachine]

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