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ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:08 AM Sep 2013

Obama Tells World: US Is 'Exceptional' But (Don't Worry) Not 'Imperial'

"In a display of what critics were quick to interpret as the rhetorical equivalent of U.S. military imperialism and its hubris in foreign policy matters, President Obama defended the idea of "American exceptionalism" and its outsized role in international affairs during his address at the UN General Assembly in New York on Tuesday.

Dismissing the notion of "an American empire" as mere "propaganda" by some, Obama defended the dominance of U.S. military power as a necessary good in the world. He argued that despite more than a decade of war, which included the illegal invasion and subsequent occupation and destruction of Iraq, the U.S. should continue to use its military strength to defend its interests around the globe."

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/09/24-3

Really sad that this "progressive" president, as many here would identify him, embraces the hallmark of the neocons: American exceptionalism.

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Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
1. I find the denial of us being an "empire" more shocking than the exceptionalism thing...
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:14 AM
Sep 2013

Last edited Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Why even go there? Either blatantly embrace the label like Chimpy did or simply ignore it like all good democrats.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
7. Chimpy = Bush II
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:55 AM
Sep 2013

The "unitary executive" theory that Bush's handlers embraced was essentially the "Imperial presidency" that Schlesinger warned about.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
2. The notion of American Exceptionalism
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:38 AM
Sep 2013

is like a cancer eating away at this country. No wonder we're resented by so much of the rest of the world. The don't hate us for our "freedoms", they hate us for our hubris.

lastlib

(23,233 posts)
4. they DID hate us for our freedom....but after George took that away
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:43 AM
Sep 2013

(Patriot Act et al.), they had less reason to hate us--so NOW they hate us for our hubris.

Always Randy

(1,059 posts)
3. May I ask what your view is on Obama's recent Syrian negotiation?
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:41 AM
Sep 2013

the world is watching him--I agree----but I would like to hear your take on this

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
8. which negotiation?
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:57 AM
Sep 2013

the one re diplomacy? My take is that he was taken unawares that Kerry's off-the-cuff remark {I know some say it isn't off-the-cuff}, was favorably received by Syria and Russia.

so Obama was pretty much left with no choice but to "explore" diplomatic means. He couldn't go to war after it turned out that a huge majority of the population did not want war, and even Assad apparently prefers diplomatic approach. I take a wait-and-see approach to whether Obama will push for a diplomatic resolution. Whether he does or not will not much affect events on the ground. There are forces fighting that do not care what the US does, and why should they, they have an agenda. Just like the Obama administration has an agenda which is to do what will enhance Obama's "legacy" and what will aid in the next admin. being Democratic.

I wish the wars in Syria could end, they are destroying a 5000-yr old civilization. But I do not see much optimism for an end to the violence.

I wish one could take all the combattants and put them some place where they could fight to the last man, and not harm anyone else.

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
9. You might consider what forces found it necessary to called Kerry's comment
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
Sep 2013

off the cuff - ignoring that Kerry twice (at least) the next day answered that it was intentional - one before a House committee and once during a more informal google hangout with Nicolas Kristoff.

Then - just use logic. It is a fact that 1) Kerry called the Syrian foreign Minister the day after the attack and 2) Obama spoke of this to Putin in St Petersburg. The question Kerry was asked is what Assad could do to avoid an attack. Now two questions.

1) Could this have been an unexpected question at an open press conference? I doubt it - the question of how it could be avoided was asked by many on DU. It is a pretty obvious question. Kerry is known to be very good answering questions informally - a necessity for a NE politician. Not to mention, he had just spent a week with his EU counterparts - and the question had to have surfaced there, Can you make a serious argument for him being blindsided?

2) Given the question, what are the possible answers - and are any better. Kerry is the top diplomat - an answer of "I don't know" or "No comment" or just avoiding the question would be bad and also - anyone following Kerry since 2004 knows that it is not his style to avoid questions - no matter how often they are asked. Now consider "nothing" - which diplomatically would be awful and also something 100% against everything Kerry has said on diplomacy since he was young. A faux pas would have been to say "Assad stepping down" - as they had stated hundreds of time the goal of the targeted strike was not - to McCain's disappointment - "regime change". I contend that when the CAUSE was chemical weapons use, Kerry's response was the only honest, reasonable answer - and it was clear in his demeanor that it did not seem possible.

It seems that what happened was that the idea being spoken -- brought support from many sides and led to the Russian/Syrian response - both of which were complex enough it was clear that they had been thoroughly worked on for some time.

I think that even if you watched just the Obama and Kerry cases for the targeted strike, it seems both are leery of getting more involved in the civil war. For Obama, the best legacy would be leaving a more peaceful world - that is why he pointedly spoke of the Israel/Palestinian negotiations and Iran. Both of these were considered unsolvable by most pundits. I would guess that a chemical weaponless Syria would be good for the region. If we had better relations with Iran, second to no nuclear weapons, not funding Hezbollah is important.

The BEST possible case that could result is an Iran, with whom we have relations - with no nuclear weapons and not supporting Hezbollah. A Lebanon where the more radical parts of Hezbollah lose power to more moderate people. A Syria without chemical weapons. (The real best case is that they also have a political solution that supports neither the US or Russia/Iran, but which tolerates all the minorities and is able to see past the atrocities that have targeted so many from both sides. I kept this out of the best case, because though what is needed - I really doubt they can get there.)

There is no doubt that the can of worms that was slightly opened by funding the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, aggravated by the first Gulf War, inflamed by Bush's wars, and then further let out by things done in Obama's first term have led to a very unstable, inflamed Middle East and North Africa. If Obama can NOT accomplish the incredibly difficult goals that he set out, it is pretty likely that the Republicans will run on foreign policy arguing - hoping America has a short memory - that Bush's assertiveness (!) was better than Obama's actions.

As to Hillary Clinton, her best chances will be if the new Obama foreign policy team can achieve some real, tangible accomplishments. (These will be diminished by the neo-cons of both parties and the right - and their many allies in the media. ) Otherwise, as the first SoS - and someone who pushed things like the surge in Afghanistan and doing more for the rebels in Syria -- it is possible that a Republican could run - strong on defending the US, but against Obama/Clinton policies if they are disliked. (Yes I know the President makes the final decisions - and Kerry is now SOS, but he will not be the one running for President - her opponents will label it Obama/Clinton.)

Always Randy

(1,059 posts)
10. I really believe that whetever we hear has been rehearsed
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 01:35 PM
Sep 2013

Obama ---Kerry---Putin----have all been around for a while----and I think Obama is brilliant ----his brand of poker/chess is unmatched----we just stand on the outside looking in thinking that we "know" what is going on--------there is no way that are Seals got in and out of Pakistan with the roar of helicopters (even one of them crashing) without a totally complicit government and military on the Pakistani side ----we all think it was "covert" ---what a rehearsal that must have been-------

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
12. what is important about the speech besides American exceptionalism which i think is a neo-com attrib
Wed Sep 25, 2013, 03:27 PM
Sep 2013

is this quote:
'PRESIDENT OBAMA: The United States of America is prepared to use all elements of our power, including military force, to secure our core interests in the region. We will confront external aggression our allies and partners, as we did in the Gulf War. We will ensure the free flow of energy from the region to the world."

He gets points for being honest; he is saying he will use any means necessary to insure access to mid-east oil.

I would prefer a president who would encourage americans to divest themselves of fossil fuel.

to randy, sorry I'm not up to reading an article, so cannot reply to you... (the David Corn article). maybe later...

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