Is there a real viable 3rd party ?

[dusty trails]

I'm a life long democrat;
two time Obama voter;
and I'm fed up with both parties.

While there are a number of political parties here in New Mexico, only the Dems, GOP,
and Libertarians got enough votes to matter.

I'm thinking of registering Green. But suspect I'm tossing my vote away.
Hell, even the Communist Party is beginning to sound good in comparison to the GOP and weak Obama/Dems.

[valerief]

1. Yes, the 99%. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

2. I tried - three different third party attempts back in the late 70's/early 80's

. the Socialist Party USA, the California Peace and Freedom Party and the Citizens Party - a precursor to the Green Party. But they all foundered just as all third parties have floundered. Even when a former President, Theodore Roosevelt led a third party effort it foundered. Even when when a former Vice President, Henry Wallace led a third party - it floundered. The last successful and sustaining third party to become a permanent and national party were the Republicans when the nation was on the brink of civil war. Also, third party effort almost always are plagued with their own intense ideological battles and attempts at hostile takeovers. I would say that I enjoyed my two or three years with the Socialist Party of the United States. The nicest people I ever met. Kind of like the sort you meet at a Sunday afternoon mid-summer Methodist Church Ice Cream social. But, it was clearly not going to go anywhere. I'm afraid our system simply is not configured that way.

[ruffburr]

3. I Wish there was-

I like the idea of democratic socialism as better way,But we seem to be stuck with crooked and crooked-er

[Scootaloo]

4. Nope, and there never will be

It's a symptom of the "winner take all" way our elections work. Invariably power splits between two parties - Incumbent and Opposition. If you're not one, then you're going to become the other. This is why both parties - no matter what the parties are - have such broad bases and tend to cater to the most centrist, lowest common denominators, in order to sponge up all the stray votes possible.

The way "third parties" in the US works is that a party rises and effectively kills another party in a single round of elections - most dramatically the Republican takedown of the Whigs in 1860. There will simply never be three or more parties functioning in our system, at least on a national level

[blkmusclmachine]

5. We need a pit bull in the White House against this insane GOPee.

And not a poodle.

[Cal33]

22. And Elizabeth Warren seems to be that pit bull. Just read the 7/31/13 article on what

she is like at her job in the Senate in this same Politics 2013 (Forum).

If she decides to run for president in 2016, she's got my vote. No doubt about that!

[KG]

6. the 2 major parties are in collusion to prevent 3rd parties from gaining traction.

this country is worse off for it.

[truebluegreen]

26. +1000

[UCmeNdc]

7. We need a fighter in the Whitehouse.

Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2013, 07:29 AM - Edit history (2)

President Obama turned out to be a get along go along type of leader.

[dusty trails]

8. Sad

But true

[Jamaal510]

24. What about all of stuff that he did so far

like advocating for tax hikes on top income earners? What about paycheck fairness for women and him being the 1st president to come out in favor of gay marriage? Bailing out the auto industry? Does none of that stuff matter? And it's really ironic that for such a weak president, he was the guy who had Bin Laden killed.

It's not his fault that the Republicans in Congress refuse to cooperate with him and do what they were sent to D.C. to do. It's not his fault that they work only 2 days per week.

[Chan790]

9. Yes, more than one.

The key there is that they're regional. Their refusal to accept bottom-up growth as the only means to eventually reach the capacity to run for...say, the Presidency...is why they're never going to be viably more than that. It's all in a long-game that they can't be anti-narcissistic and self-sacrificing long enough to play.

I'm going to use the city of Hartford, CT where I grew up as an example starting ground. It could be anywhere though.

The Green Party and Working Families Party in CT both run successful candidates for lower citywide office all the time who get elected more often that the Republicans do. Logically the step up from there is to run viable candidates for higher-profile citywide offices like Mayor. Make that your concentration...you do more good winning Mayor of Hartford or New Haven than you do pulling 1% in national elections. A successful two-term mayor becomes a viable candidate for Governor or Senator. A regional powerhouse party spreads...if you are putting up viable candidates that are pulling strong competitive finishes in losing elections and winning their share of elections, it's not out of reach within a decade to be a top-2 party across say...New England. Win a big race of national importance like Mayor of Boston or NYC and you have a foothold...a position from which to run for the big job. Until then, you're pissing resources and wasting time/energy/money that could be used to gain and possess input.

They do none of this. They allow their name to be used by anybody willing to entirely raise their own funds to run for low offices. They offer no support or building of infrastructure. They do nothing to build on and promote candidates for higher offices than the offices they currently hold. They use all their resources to take impossible long-shot runs at the big jobs. Real political change is never achieved by using all your resources to take Hail Marys for the whole enchilada.

The key to all of this is not wasting resources on running jokes for the Presidency. Last year, I met a very nice woman running for President named Dr. Jill Stein. She had great ideas, she had a great platform, she had great energy...and her candidacy was a joke; the Greens were never going to even remotely influence the outcome of the Presidency. Worse, that non-entity of a campaign cost the Greens enough money that if they had spent it in cherry-picked downticket races for...say...US House of Representative seats...they'd have contested maybe a dozen and won 3 or 4. That would have had a far greater impact on American politics. They'd have a seat at the table, their influence and votes would be needed in a close House and they'd have influence. Currently, they have nothing.

Occupy DC last year got it half-right when they were running a campaign of "Vote for Nobody" because both parties suck...what they needed to run a campaign targeted to viable and supportable political movements of "Run Nobody (for unwinnable races)." It's popular to blame the two-party system for the continuation of the two-party system...it's hogwash. It's the result of starting from the status quo and working backwards in search of a necessary-cause for that status-quo with the presumption that status-quo must be inevitable and immutable.

Register Green if you want to. Run Green. Just know that the change that may occur will only occur as the result of local work in local races and take years or decades, not weeks or months. It has a far greater effect on your daily life to win 51% of the city council seats than national positions...and it's easier.

[rhyden77]

13. Great Post

It would take years for a third party, like the green party, to rise to power, if they continue like they are. They are so disorganized at the lower levels. I suggested they throw a concert in Washington DC and bring famous third party leaders to the event to speak.

I have written songs from 'Bridge to Nowhere' (posted today on this site) to 'One America'. The One America that Elizabeth Edwards fought so hard for. I have seven amazing singers who would fly in from Houston, Nashville, Detroit, Indianapolis, New York City and Los Angeles to perform. I have three national charities that relate to all the police, fire and military in this country.

The Green Party has emailed me back and shown some interest, but a lot has to take place for this to happen. I decided to begin an Indiegogo Campaign next month to help raise money and bring attention to the Green Party. They need to think outside the box and quit doing what their doing and expect different results. They need organization and media attention. They need famous speakers on board. I think they could get people like Mark Cuban and Ted Turner to help them if they did something big to attract them. I feel someone like Toby Keith would perform his song American Ride.

[cali]

29. There's only one viable third party that elects people and it's a state party

It's still a great template.

We are the nation's most successful third party, electing more state legislators than all others combined. We fight for our core principles of social justice and economic equity. We accept no corporate donations, so are free of the big money influence that dominates the other two parties. We run strategically, win elections, and legislate change.


See more at: http://www.progressiveparty.org/#sthash.bJ9bgKbv.dpuf


You can see the entire platform here:

http://www.progressiveparty.org/issues/platform

[tokenlib]

10. no..and that is why the Third Way/Progressive tensions continue on DU

The corporatist/third way types tell the progressives to shut up and go along because they have nowhere else to go and the GOP would be much worse. Because the progressive/New Deal dems have nowhere else to go, they have decided enough is enough with the concessions of the past 30 years and that they are going to fight back.

A third party would be easier..but it won't happen until we get that "proportional representation" thing Thom Hartmann talks about. So the only real choice is to fight it out for the soul of the Democratic party.

[Chan790]

11. There is no need for proportional represenation to achieve viable third and fourth parties...

which represent a broader range of political viewpoints.

That's what I was referring to in the post above this one where I started talking about trying to find reasons in the status quo why that status quo was inevitable and necessary.

There's nothing intrinsically in a proportional representative system to make additional viewpoints more viable and every reason to believe that it would actually exacerbate the problem by polarizing the political environment further and create increased schism without moving the Overton window.

It takes hard work, time and smart organizing from the bottom to win winnable races as a step-stone to greater recognition, increased recognition of your ideas and higher offices. There is no other way of getting any of that. There is no sign that any third-party movement is willing to do the work to get there.

[rhyden77]

12. Third Parties

I have been in touch with several of the third parties. To me, it seems most of them are too disorganized to get anymore than one percent of the vote. At a time when this country is so polarized and our Government so inept, you would think it would create an ideal opportunity for them. I will start an Indiegogo Campaign soon to raise money for a Patriotic CD and Concert in DC. I actually wrote the song 'Bridge to Nowhere' and posted it on this thread. I have seven singers on board, from throughout the country and three national charities. I'm praying this campaign will get some media attention. My goal is to send a message to Washington and somehow wake up these third parties. My favorite is the Green Party. I agree with most their stuff. They also have groups overseas. I still believe in the 'One America' that Elizabeth Edwards fought for. I'm trying to get a hold of her daughter who lives in Washington DC and is a successful attorney. All for now. I'll post the campaign once it's up and running. Wish me luck. Maybe we could start a group and who knows where it might lead?

[rhyden77]

14. One America

I will start an Indiegogo Campaign to raise money for a Patriotic CD and Concert in Washington DC. If successful, then I hope a book and movie to follow. I have contacts all the way to Mark Cuban. Hope he helps fund it. I feel if American Voters can see it on the big screen then maybe they could envision it in real life. I want them to see how efficient a country could be run under third party rule. I had this little intro made.

[ancianita]

15. If they're not set up to be on 50 states' ballots and don't get media coverage, they're not viable.

There really is nowhere to go but to throw your conscience vote away.

[rhyden77]

16. Third Parties

I agree. None of them will become valid if everyone complains and no one does anything about it. They keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

[jazzimov]

17. No.

You'd be tossing your vote away.

[StanGr]

18. No

[Indyfan53]

19. You are handing the GOP a victory.

We can't afford to divide the progressive vote. While I admire what the green party stands for, they need to take over the Democratic party, so we can have less sellouts and a bigger alliance against the republicans.

Voting third party is what gave us Bush in 2000.

[dusty trails]

21. Gee

Voting third party is what gave us Bush in 2000.

And I thought brother Jeb and the conservative Supreme Court stole it for him.

[Indyfan53]

27. What about 2010?

Republicans were propping up green party candidates to take away votes from Democrats.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/more-gop-green-party-ties-found/nRt8C/

[burnodo]

20. No

But then there are no viable first or second parties either

[MineralMan]

23. No. You might as well stay home. nt

[Jamaal510]

25. This country is just now all of a sudden

starting to head in the correct path, and you're thinking about voting 3rd party?

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

Seriously, some people on the Left really need to quit being so short-sighted just because they don't get everything they want immediately. Even if you were to vote for a 3rd party candidate for president, they are still going to need a Congress that will cooperate with him or her. That is why progress has been so slow thus far for Obama since the Republicans gained control in 2010. As far as I know, there are no 3rd party representatives in either House of Congress.
Disillusioned liberals need to learn how to show up for midterm elections. Give the man in the oval office a House and Senate he can get things done with. You want gun control? Elect more Dems. You want minimum wage increases? You know the drill. Neither the Greens nor the Libertarians are ever going to amount to shit; they have neither the name-recognition nor the people-power, nor the money-power for any success.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Where does your majority coalition come from?

The Democratic Party is predominantly a coalition of minorities, single women, some working class whites in the midwest and northeast but certainly not in the south, and upper middle class social liberals. The latter group gives most of the money which means that they have a disproportionate amount of control over the policies.

The Republican Party is a less of a coalition and more of an ideologically driven party. The only actual wedge in their ideology is that they do have some voters who are economically conservative but not socially conservative.

But there's not enough of them to join the upper middle class social liberals in the Democratic Party and form a Libertarian Party that could win elections. Nor would that be preferable to the Democratic Party at all.

But the more common notion is that somehow a Populist Party could be formed because there are lots of Republicans who are socially conservative but not economically conservative. That's bullshit. Upper middle class social liberals are more liberal on economic issues than working class Republicans are. Working class Republicans are Republicans not just because of religion but because they buy into the notion that they are poor because lazy welfare queens are taking all of their money.

The only way you get a better party than the Democratic Party is to get the people who don't currently vote to start voting. All of the remotely desirable elements of the GOP have left the party and become Democrats already.

[Xyzse]

30. Until they figure out that the path to a viable 3rd party revolves around getting...

People in the Senate and Congress, there is just no way they can be treated seriously.

Until they can get at least 5 Congressmen and at least 2 Senators in their party, there is no valid third party.
They tend to just try to run a President, which is ridiculous.

A 3rd Party President will have a much harder time passing anything, than Obama.

[treestar]

31. You have to build it up

It won't just appear on a platter.