NEW: New Texas ‘fetal heartbeat’ bill would outlaw nearly all abortions

[Tx4obama]

New Texas ‘fetal heartbeat’ bill would outlaw nearly all abortions

Just hours after Texas Governor Rick Perry signed a controversial anti-abortion bill into law, Republicans in the state legislature introduced yet another bill intended to prevent a woman from obtaining an abortion.

The new legislation would ban most abortions after a fetal heartbeat is detected, which can be as early as six weeks into pregnancy.

“A person may not knowingly perform or induce or attempt to perform or induce an abortion on a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of the unborn child if it has been determined, in accordance with Section 171.103, that the unborn child has a detectable heartbeat,” the bill states.

The bill was introduced to the Texas House by state Rep. Phil King (R-Weatherford). King was a co-author of the bill signed into law on Thursday, which could close down all but five abortion clinics in the state.

-snip-

Full article here: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/18/new-texas-fetal-heartbeat-bill-would-outlaw-nearly-all-abortions/

The 'War on Women' continues...

[malokvale77]

1. It just never ends...

and it gets uglier and uglier.

[trublu992]

2. They want to push this to the Supreme Court to overturn abortion

That's why the aggressive abortion bills they know it will be challenged and they have their

hit men in place they're gonna go for it. Same strategy civil rights and the women 's movement used

but in reverse.

[MillennialDem]

9. It's their only chance. They know a dem will likely win in 2016... and 2019-2020 is a long time to

hope Kennedy and Scalia are still on the supreme court

[Skittles]

3. whatever would repukes do without their wedge issues???

[A Simple Game]

22. Hopefully they will not feel the need to vote.

I wonder how the national Republicans feel about the new state abortion laws?

[jmowreader]

39. They will create new ones

[trueblue2007]

4. these MEN ARE ASS HOLES

[cali]

5. I don't think even the 5th circuit could find anything to hang their hats on and

uphold that. The legislators may be betting that when it gets to them, the 5th circuit will indeed do that, but it's a very dubious bet. All the rest of that putrid bill? The 5th may well uphold it, and then it really is on to the Supreme Court.

For those that don't know: Next up: The Texas legislation is challenged in part or in whole by the ACLU, PPP or the Center for Reproductive Rights in federal court; a temporary injunction is probably issued.

[Tx4obama]

24. The Fifth Circuit has 5 Democratic and 10 Republican appointed judges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Fifth_Circuit

[leftynyc]

6. As Lewis Black said

earlier this week - This New Yorker says FUCK TEXAS.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. And more expensive tests that the woman has to pay for and with the result of

not being allowed the opportunity to pay for a sonogram and wait another week to get an abortion in a clinic that is located more than 300 miles from where she lives.

[geek tragedy]

8. I live in New York because it's not Texas. nt

[KansDem]

10. You gave me an idea for a bumper sticker

[font size="6"][center]Kansas
[font size="3"]At least we're not Texas...yet
[font size="1"][/center]

edited for html corrections

[Coyotl]

11. Return to the Dark Ages = constantly twisting that reostat.

It is as if they hunger for the feudal Middle Ages, burning witches, and a return of the Crusades and Inquisition.

[AZ Progressive]

15. I would bet on that

They would legalize killing of gay people, put women "back in their place", and reinstate slavery if they could.

They must envy Saudi Arabia for the way they treat women there, as well as Uganda for the way they treat gay people.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

12. Wonder if there will be a special session called

To deal with this massively critical piece of legislation?

[okwmember]

13. No hearts. No brains.

Why can't we just abort these legislators?

[FiveGoodMen]

17. First, you have to abort the idiots that keep voting for them.

[AZ Progressive]

14. They won't ever stop

There needs to be a force from the left / left leaning side that's fierce enough to fight the right wing. Either that or this country needs to split up into two.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

16. kick for visibilty. And rec.

[Ezlivin]

18. Eventually they will prevent women

N/T

[MrScorpio]

19. With the same hand, he signs the death warrants of people on Death Row...

As well as the death warrants of pregnant women.

[ladym55]

20. And the "pro-life" legislature then went on to help mothers and children, right?

I'm SURE the next bills will expand Medicaid, fund Headstart, and show just how much Texas loves babies AFTER they are born!!!

Doesn't Texas have a really high rate of uninsured citizens? Would that all the effort put forth to control women's bodies would instead be used to (gasp) help people.

[azurnoir]

21. That would leave Plan B as the about the only option

that or going to Mexico to obtain Misoprostol

these men are disgusting

[shockedcanadian]

23. Ok I need some clarification...

I have been pro-choice my entire life, and in Canada it is a fairly accepted issue that has never really come up for debate in my lifetime. Though I have to admit that sadly I do not know the science behind the development of a child inside the womb. This being said, I heard one politician speaking on CNN and saying that 20 weeks was the accepted scientific point in which a baby feels pain according to this guy and this it was his own personal "guideline" for what he felt was morally acceptable...again I know nothing about whether this is fact or not, only what he said and his personal opinion. So...

Does it not seem rational that once a baby has a heartbeat that it is alive? When I read the words it really puts some doubt in my mind about when a child is in fact a child. I don't know when this period occurs, but I would have to consider my position if a baby has a heartbeat, and if a baby can feel pain, has developed nerves and an "existence"....I am confused, and maybe I am getting soft in my old age, my resolve waning; but I have to consider information that I never truly considered before.

Does anyone here know anything more about this subject? Again, I am pro-life, but I am certainly not "anti-life" or "pro-killing"...I realize this is an extremely emotional subject, but I am torn with all of the information and disinformation out there and this is the one discussion board I trust to get some honest discourse.

Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me on the subject. Cheers.

[Tx4obama]

25. Articles below...

The human foetus cannot feel pain before the age of 24 weeks, according to an authoritative review of scientific evidence that sets back the campaign to cut the time limit for abortion.

Nerve connections in the foetal brain do not form fully enough to allow perception of pain until after the 24-week limit for terminating pregnancies, an expert report commissioned by the Department of Health concluded.

-snip-

http://patdollard.com/2010/06/study-fetus-cant-feel-pain-for-6-months/

-snip-

Evidence Synthesis Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing. Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks. For fetal surgery, women may receive general anesthesia and/or analgesics intended for placental transfer, and parenteral opioids may be administered to the fetus under direct or sonographic visualization. In these circumstances, administration of anesthesia and analgesia serves purposes unrelated to reduction of fetal pain, including inhibition of fetal movement, prevention of fetal hormonal stress responses, and induction of uterine atony.

Conclusions Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. ...

-snip-

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=201429

[awoke_in_2003]

26. "I have been pro-choice my entire life"...

..."Does anyone here know anything more about this subject? Again, I am pro-life"

Your slip is showing.

[Tx4obama]

28. Or it could just be a typo. n/t

[shockedcanadian]

30. I meant to say I am pro-choice

[salin]

31. many women have irregular menstruation cycles, and do not know that they

are pregnant at 6 weeks. This policy would suggest that regardless of the circumstances around the pregnancy, and regardless of health risks to the mother or the the fetus, that it the woman would have to carry the child to term or she and the doctor providing an abortion, would be criminalized.

I am not sure what this means when a fetus ceases to be "alive" in the womb, given that the proponents of such laws view extraction of no-longer viable fetus as an abortion, and thus (in their eyes - and in some of their proposed legislation) as "feticide" (= murder.) In some versions of this legislation even miscarriages are suspect and need medical documentation to "clear" the mother from culpability.

Most of these bills that push for earlier and earlier dates to outlaw abortion (and often then add language that to enforce get even more intrusive measures to "investigate and prove that an abortion did not occur&quot penalize doctors and women. They tend to say nothing about the father - even when (as has been the case in some publicized situations) when a male tries to coerce (or does coerce) the woman to abort.

The point tends to be about rallying a far right wing political base, to close down medical facilities, and to hold women penally accountable - or to force women to carry to term even when the viability of the baby is in question and the mother's health is in extreme jeopardy.

These laws tend to distinguish between "prolife and prochoice" people, vs prolife trumps anything else including the life of the mother.

[mwooldri]

41. What is "alive" ?

Take a cancer tumour... it has blood pumping through it, it is growing, it may have nerves in it too. Is that alive? In my mind it is alive. A very early foetus with a heartbeat is alive, but at this point the foetus is not a baby human. Not all the parts are there, and if they are there, they are not developed enough yet to be viable if the foetus was "born".

My standard of when a foetus becomes a human child is simply this: can the foetus exist and live outside of the woman's body? If yes, then that foetus can be considered a human baby. If not, then that foetus is technically a parasite, it is totally dependent on its host (the woman carrying the foetus) for its existence.

If the woman experiences a medical situation where her body rejects the parasitic foetus, that foetus is dead and it is normally called a miscarriage. When a woman experiences a similar medical situation where her body rejects the foetus (now a human baby) it is generally called premature labour.

The problem is that with medical advances that time for "viability" gets pushed earlier into the pregnancy term. So what was viable at 32 weeks is now viable at 26 or even 24 weeks.

As to abortion: this is a debate that is endless, it will go on for my lifetime and most likely longer than that too. There are plenty of medical reasons to ensure that abortion is available. The "I don't want to be pregnant" abortions are generally early on in the pregnancy when the foetus is most definitely not viable, heartbeat or not. I stand by the "safe, rare and legal" position. I disagree with people here as to when an abortion should not be performed. In any case, since I am a guy and not a girl, some people say I should not have an opinion on the matter and I should not voice the opinion that I have. As to the actual decision, us guys should never force a woman to choose one way or another - that is entirely the woman's decision. So to those people who don't want me to voice my opinion, I apologize for making you read my diatripe of a posting. Probably riddled with grammatical errors and potential mis-spellings since I've got my English mind on today and not my American one.

I think you have a valid question shockedcanadian - when does life truly begin... it is a philosophical question with science, medicine, religion, stereotypes and what society calls "normal" all putting in their point of view. It's a question where the answer has moving goalposts. I may not have enlightened you, but I hope I have given you some insight from my perspective on how I see things. Pro choice, pro life, pro killing, pro this, that the other... this can be so darned twisted.

[Thinkingabout]

43. good point, so pro-life means we don't treat cancer, i will sure try this on the next bunch of rw's

[ancianita]

27. See what they did there?

[Evoman]

29. my question....whats so special about a beating heart?

If it were up to me, I'd allow abortion up to the point where the fetus shows evidence of thinking. That would give us some time to abort Republicans before they give us to much problems.

[Kablooie]

32. Why are all of a sudden all these anti abortion laws being passed without legal challenges?

In the past there aways seemed to be legal challenges that killed them.

Now, once they are passed, they seem to accepted undeniably as law.

[caseymoz]

38. Because now they think the courts will reverse Roe.

Why else do you think the Senate Republicans have been holding up Obama's court appointments? Besides making Obama look bad, it's a strategic priority.

I'm afraid to say they might be right. In the last few terms, the Roberts Court has all but shown it's willing to legislate from the bench, after all the bullshit about constructionism.

Those, plus the fact the it might be Repubs last chance to repeal Roe, since the country is swinging left.

I hate to say the best hope for women right now would be a for Conservative Justice to drop dead.

[blkmusclmachine]

35. Cruel, and stOOPid.

Just like TX.

[LadyHawkAZ]

36. Might as well get used to it now

at the rate we're going, this will be nationwide after 2014 or 2016.

[davidpdx]

37. I'm waiting for the bill to outlaw the word abortion

That is after they ban them. The morality police have arrived.

[chapel hill dem]

40. The default growth path of stem cells is to form cardiac tissue

If you take stem cells and culture them without causing any specificity, they will form a clump of red cardiac tissue. In a about a week, the clump spontaneously begins to beat.

I guess we cannot kill that lump after six weeks (it probably will die before that due to nutrition issues).

[dusty trails]

42. Just curious

Do republicans have a heart beat ?

[Initech]

44. Well George Carlin was right. "If you're pre born you're fine, if you're pre school you're fucked!"