Can you Obama bashers out there give me the number..

[busterbrown]

of elected politicians in office who can could fulfill your political expectations...I can name perhaps as
many as ten...Now you can tell me how you would turn this country around in the next 2 election cycles?

Have you guys who have blame the whole electronic surveillance on Obama, ever consider the fact that
this thing has developed to such a point that he in fact is practically powerless over this fucking military, industrial Complex which now runs our country?

And finally, what do you think would happen politically if a terrorist attack was perpetrated on our shores after our President derailed some these National Security Operations.. Probably would loose the House, Senate and Presidency for 2 or 3 cycles..

Perhaps by then you all would probably see your S.S and Medicare benefits sliced and diced until they became almost useless.. Perhaps we have to work with what we have until we home grow some people who actually will represent our interests.. That ain’t happening quickly.

In the meantime quit giving the other side more and more ammo so that in the end we will have little hope of change..

[rug]

1. I have no political expectations. It's pure defense now.

[cantbeserious]

2. Personally - I Am Tired Of Voting For The Lesser Of Two Evils

eom

[busterbrown]

5. Well thats a vote for Randy Paul..

[cantbeserious]

9. I Voted For Obama Twice And Am Very Disappointed With His Performance

eom

[all american girl]

30. I'm disappointed with Obama also, but I think, overall, I'm happy with what he has to work with

No one will ever live up to a person's expectations....

I'm disappointed that my son finished his first year in college and failed his Calculus class....and the boy is majoring in computer science.

I'm disappointed that my 14 year old girl think she needs to give me lip when I tell here to do chores...can't wait until she is 16.

I'm disappointed that my dad thought we weren't good enough to hang around when I was a kid.

I'm disappointed that my mom worked her ass off to raise us, and still could make ends meet. Yeah, we were those welfare queens, and believe me when I say, no living large in this family.

I'm disappointed that when I asked my husband not to go to Iraq, he did...but to be fair, I already knew the answer, I just had to ask.

So, when it comes to President Obama, yeah, there is disappointment, but overall, I'm happy with what he has had to work with.

[jaysunb]

34. +1 nt

[yeoman6987]

101. I'm disappointed with Obama also, but I think, overall, I'm happy with what he has to work with

That is a super look at things. Your post should be "post of the day"!

[all american girl]

105. Are you making fun of me?

[yeoman6987]

129. Are you making fun of me?

No....I swear. I seriously loved your post. I thought it was excellent. I am so sorry I was not more clear.

[all american girl]

143. Thank you. Sorry about that. I've notice, as of late, there have been some mean people.

At first I took your post as positive, then I let my brain get in the way I should not do that

[Lydia Leftcoast]

172. I had low expectations (because I knew that only candidates who kowtow to the corporate

bigwigs are considered "serious&quot , but I'm still disappointed at his carrying out and intensifying all that security state nonsense and continuing to meddle in the Middle East.

[WeekendWarrior]

119. We are ALWAYS going to be disappointed

It doesn't matter what liberal or progressive we put in office. We will always be disappointed. Why? Because of the nature of our political system, every man or woman elected President will have to move to the center, will have to compromise his/her and our beliefs, will have to deal with a system that is inherently corrupt and will not always do it in the way we desire.

I read some of the posts on this forum and can't believe how naive so many people are. You simply have to educate yourself on the history of our country, how it was formed, how it grew and how it prospered in order to know that even those with the best of intentions cannot be everything to everyone.

It's terrific to have an ideal and strive for it, but you also have to be realistic about the world and it's bullshit. People are not nice. People don't play fair. People will always be screwed over by the people who "represent" them.

So expect to be disappointed no matter who is in power.

[Thinkingabout]

13. A vote for Rand Paul would be a vote for the most evil unless Ted Cruz was running.

[MNBrewer]

33. Oh, is that who DU has decided will be running on the Republican ticket this week?

[mikekohr]

107. President Obama is steadily amassing a substantive record of accomplishment in spite

of unprecedented Republican obstructionism.

A deciding number of left leaning voters decided that Al Gore was not pure enough in 2000. That gave us George W. Bush. How'd that work out?

President Obama, the greatest deficit reducer of all time
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/2013/04/president-obama-greatest-deficit.html

Class, Accomplishment, Results, Over the last 4 years:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1251&pid=314457

Job Creation Under President Obama
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/2012/10/job-creation-under-president-obama.html

LOOK WHAT HAPPENED WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA'S STIMULUS TOOK EFFECT http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/2012/02/look-what-happened-when-president.html

[cantbeserious]

114. Yes, And A Steady Record Of Accomplishments That Benefit The 1%

eom

[SunSeeker]

122. The ACA, repeal of DADT, saving auto jobs, all that helped the 99%.

My brother will have health insurance for the first time in his adult life when the pre-existing condition exclusion becomes illegal for adults next year.

You are just repeating a right wing talking point.

[cantbeserious]

124. Yes - However, That Is Drop In The Bucket Compared To The Avoided Losses On Wall Street From Prosecution

eom

[Zoeisright]

147. Oh bullshit.

For christ's sake, grow the fuck up. Anything that helps the average American is a good thing. Your whining is pathetic.

[cantbeserious]

150. Thank You For Being So Tactful - We Will Have To Agree To Disagree

eom

[bigwillq]

159. There are other candidates on the ballot.

Vote for them.

I do.

[Kolesar]

3. & the obtusanoids here blame the President for what Wall Street does

Like being elected makes him King

[cantbeserious]

4. How Are Those Wall Street Prosecutions Going - The Obtusanoids Would Like To Know

eom

[Kolesar]

6. Your *second* deflection on this thread

In two posts, too!

[cantbeserious]

7. No Deflection - An Honest Question To Your Original Misdirection

eom

[pscot]

8. Little hope of change is what we have now

If this is as good as it gets, just shoot me now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. What could we have done to you if Romney had of won?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. Some observations

Can you Obama bashers out there give me the number of elected politicians in office who can could fulfill your political expectations...I can name perhaps asmany as ten...Now you can tell me how you would turn this country around in the next 2 election cycles?


I expect out elected officials to do what they promise. Otherwise why vote for them?

Have you guys who have blame the whole electronic surveillance on Obama, ever consider the fact that
this thing has developed to such a point that he in fact is practically powerless over this fucking military, industrial Complex which now runs our country?


That almost sounds as if you are promoting that we live in a military dictatorship...and apologizing for him for it. If you believe that then why vote?

And finally, what do you think would happen politically if a terrorist attack was perpetrated on our shores after our President derailed some these National Security Operations.. Probably would loose the House, Senate and Presidency for 2 or 3 cycles..

It appears that you are now endorsing the "fucking military, industrial Complex" over political grounds and a smoking gun that turns into a mushroom cloud. Condi did it better.

Perhaps by then you all would probably see your S.S and Medicare benefits sliced and diced until they became almost useless.. Perhaps we have to work with what we have until we home grow some people who actually will represent our interests.. That ain’t happening quickly.

Are you sure they will be sliced and diced as opposed to slashed or cut?

In the meantime quit giving the other side more and more ammo so that in the end we will have little hope of change.

I'm not sure how you can write of change when your second paragraph infers that Obama is "powerless over this fucking military, industrial Complex which now runs our country."

[busterbrown]

12. Well...

Because if we did not vote for Obama we would have had Sarah Palin as our President...And there
are plenty more out there far worse than her..

You sound as though this whole military disaster started thing started 5 years ago. .

For God Sakes, I’m trying to destroy the complex.. Your “Political Grounds” are the point..What are they?.It is so easy to say whats wrong. What politicians are you backing, or whats your strategy for introducing new ones who can solve this problem..? I’m asking for solutions, not snark..

Slashed and Cut another example of snark?

You have convinced me of little....

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. "You have convinced me of little.... "

Well, you have convinced me that you need some more work on your argument.

Firstly, you suggest that P-B-Obama is powerless against the MIC, but in this argument he is somehow better than Sarah Palin who is a failed politician.

Secondly, you wrongly assume that "this whole military disaster started thing started 5 years ago." I never wrote that. Not sure where you are going here.


Brush up on your outrage please, and don't endorse the NSA/MIC after you accuse it of being more powerful that the POTUS. "

"And finally, what do you think would happen politically if a terrorist attack was perpetrated on our shores after our President derailed some these National Security Operations."

[busterbrown]

49. I’m pretty reasonable, maybe not as well written as you....

but you have not convinced me to retract anything..

Conflating Obama with Palin? Please! Perhaps Rand Paul, Marco Rubio or Chris Christie might be more
“reasonable” examples...

Never said you wrote it, but critics often site that Obama just has to wave that magic wand and the MIC would just disappear..

I certainly still feel that MIC is more powerful than the POTUS at this moment..Not until we get the money out of politics will this change..

A terrorist attack after a draw down of surveillance operations would spell disaster for our country for
at least 2 election cycles.. The House would be 75% tea baggers and we would loose the Senate and the
White House..This country scares very easily and would react violently...Again, taking their anger and fear out on minorities, the poor and elderly..

[cantbeserious]

17. Massive Civil Disobedience Is The Only Solution And Won't Happen Until The American People Have Had Enough

eom

[busterbrown]

50. Agree, but this isn’t the 60s..

When it comes to reacting to disobedience, the country now has put together a military like police force which will be just itching to use heavy arms against the crowds...

[cantbeserious]

71. Agree - The Discipline Required To Undermine The Agents Of Agitation Will Be Significant

eom

[Sunlei]

32. who the heck in your mind is worse than palin as presidential material?

she's worse than romney-scissorhands.

[busterbrown]

51. Cruz, Perry, Nugent (ha) and Paul...

[graham4anything]

77. Well, Obama is ending two wars, is closing Gitmo, gave us fantastic new health care, DOMA overturned

car industry is better than ever

economy picking up

Of course, those that wanted Hillary(are there any still bitter?) If so, can vote for Hillary as she is going to be #45.

I don't hear ONE person saying they will get rid of the FBI,CIA,NSA, all the defense departments

and if they did, where exactly would all those 99% workers, work?

[Jamaal510]

120. +1

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

125. That's great, but it has little to do with my post or the one preceeding it.

[obxhead]

11. He could simply start by ending Bush Admin policies he campaigned against.

That would be a hell of a start.

Instead he has reinforced and expanded many of the worst policies.

[Thinkingabout]

14. He campaigned against warrantless wiretapping, now a warrant is being issued so your need of the

Administration has been accomplished. What is your next complaint?

[HooptieWagon]

18. Secret broad warrants, by a secret court, according to secret law.

Does that sound like "the most transparant administration, ever" as Obama promised? He also promised increased protection for whistle-blowers....and made a 180 on that promise too. All of Bush's imperial executive excesses we detested? Obama doubled down on them. The WH is in direct charge of the DoD, DoJ, NSA, CIA... changes easily made by executive order. Congress is not blocking him.

[Thinkingabout]

20. The Whistleblower Act excludes those in the NSA. The warrants have been issued and it does not

Matter if they was obtained through FISA Court the warrants was issued. The one which was not issued was to Snowden to collect files from the NSA. Which agency provided oversight to Snowden, the patsy of Spy and Lie?

[HooptieWagon]

22. If you're doing something illegal, pretty clever to exempt it from the law.

Of course, there are non-NSA whistle blowers being hounded and charged also. The most secretive administration ever is pretty desparate to keep their activities hidden from Congress, the media, and the public. What are they hiding?

[Thinkingabout]

44. Illegal, like stealing files from the NSA? There was a process for Snowden to follow, it did not

Involve a foreign news media, also Greenwald was not in the process. The patsy either was not told the NSA was exempt, or did not listen or was hell bent on being illegal.

[HooptieWagon]

55. Illegal like breaking 4th Amendment.

And who is Snowden going to go to? Boss at Booz Haxmilton? Director of NSA? Its pretty clear they aren't going to go "gee, you're right! We are doing something illegal, We'll stop right now". Yea, sure. No, media was his only resort. And US media would have reported it, had to be foreign media.

[Thinkingabout]

80. Snowden did not have a warrant to gather information so he was illegal. Did he attempt to use the

Procedure he should have followed, no. He has stolen and delivered to not an American news source but to a foreign news media. NSA is following procedure under the FISA Act in obtaining a warrant and therefore is the requirement u tnder the Fourth amendment so where do you get illegal?

If your desire is to do the typical libertarian move and now do away with the Fourth amendment and then there will not even be a need to have a warrant to search your personal space. Think what will happen when amendments start to be repealed. You probably will not be happy without freedom of speech and many others we enjoy every day.

Snowden will probably never return to the USA, this will be his punishment for being a patsy. He could return and get a lesser charge if he agreed to out the conspiracy and those involved. This is a step I could see him taking since he claims his conscience guided him to take the steps he already has. But it would be dangerous for him for surely this bunch would kill him.

[truebluegreen]

93. Here's a little discussion on the "process."

Enjoy!

[Thinkingabout]

97. You send me a link to probably the puppet masters of Snowden and this is going to prove exactly as I

said Snowden did not attempt to follow procedures. BTW, the Guardian is a foreign media news.

[truebluegreen]

98. Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...gasp...pant pant

Puppet masters! Foreign media news!

Dude, thanks for the laugh, srsly.

[Thinkingabout]

99. Why all the whining?

[Sunlei]

35. FOIA requests took 6 years under bush, one month under Obama.

one of the first changes President Obama made soon as he took office.

protection for whistle blowers is that most of them are no longer in the news or made public/political fodder like in the bush-years. Unless they run to the media and expose themselves.

The Obama admin has shut-down billions in gov. fraud, that info came from whistle blowers.

[HooptieWagon]

37. Every single FOIA request about NSA and FISA court has been denied.

Administration is even blocking the release of a court decision that stated the spying went too far.

[busterbrown]

52. And if after some Executive Orders to reduce “illegal surveillance” there is a terrorist

attack on our country.. We would loose the House, Senate and White House for at least two election cycles.. They would run the country on fear and make sure that we wouldn’t see a Dem. Administration for years..They also would dismantle as many social safety net programs as possible and pin the blame
for everything on the, Poor, minorities and the elderly...

But I still ask for solutions to who we support in upcoming elections.. Getting the money out of politics and dismantling the MIC is a mind boggling undertaking.. Please give me some names...

[treestar]

90. They will continue to lie about this

It's what they do.

[hlthe2b]

15. There has to be a middle ground between blind sycophancy and absolute withering excoriation...

with total withdrawal of support. Why do some feel that there is no room between these extremes?

Criticizing those we otherwise support is not wrong--even Obama has asked that we hold him to account.

[HooptieWagon]

19. It has been a steady drip drip drip...

...of Obama's bad policies that has led to valid criticism. It is the recent revelation of Obama expanding Bush's illegal surveillence that is the final straw. I supported him, with much disappointment, until then. I will no longer. I refuse to compromise principles I hold most dear. Those that support a Surveillence State really should go join the GOP.

[Thinkingabout]

21. I am nit ever planning to join the GOP, and I wonder why some of the libertarians posting

Don't return to the libertarian sites to post where they are in common with libertarians.

[HooptieWagon]

24. What libertarians are those?

All I see are long-time Progressive Democrats who are fed up. They opposed bad policy when Bush did it, and continue to oppose it when Obama does it. Others are willing to sell out their principles when a D is in office....which is why the Party has drifted so far right.

[Thinkingabout]

26. Maybe like those who thinks Rand Paul would be a good candidate, not on the Democrat

Party.

[HooptieWagon]

29. I haven't seen any DUer advocate for Rand Paul.

All I've seen is some DUers cheering bad Bush policies when Obama does them.

[Thinkingabout]

31. Do a search, saw one today

[Bluenorthwest]

84. You have to support your assertions, you would if you could. You can't.

So you won't. This is Democratic Underground, it is a violation of the TOS to promote Republicans for office and that standard is fiercely enforced by members and administrators, so when you claim you have seen all these Paul for President posts, I don't believe you, I say support your assertions with links or admit to mendacity.
Insulting the community here is shitty. So support your assertion. You would if you could but you can't so you won't.

[Thinkingabout]

88. Try this one for starters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251314455#post5

[truebluegreen]

94. That's the "Democratic" Party, if you don't mind.

[Dustlawyer]

43. Right on brother!

[Thinkingabout]

45. There was a post by buster brown today.

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. So if nothing changes where will drive the Hooptie?

[HooptieWagon]

60. To the polls to vote Progressive.

No more donations to Dem Party or knocking doors for non-progressive Dems. And my state (Fl) doesn't have many progressives to vote for.

[Sunlei]

25. ya think with the total screwing the libertarians got from GOP, last elect. they would have learned.

But no, they carry water again for the GOP terrorists.

[ancianita]

166. Don't do that. Don't label people's desire for transparent government and liberty libertarian.

Just don't tell people in any forum where to go. You're not an admin, so you can stop the ordering people toward other groups. Not nice.

[busterbrown]

56. The Military Industrial Complex supports our" Surveillance state...” Start with that one first..

But no one on this thread has given me any names of democratic politicians who will or could take up
the fight to dismantle our current “illegal surveillance state”.. I could perhaps name 5 out of all current
Dem. Politicians.. Until we get the money out of politics the Military Industrial Complex will live..

And please don’t ask me to support Rand Paul or Chris Christie or Jeb Bush.. That’s just plain stupid..

[Bluenorthwest]

85. That is awful. You are dishonest, the other poster did NOT ask you to support a

Republican, the other poster clearly said they vote for progressives and you put words into their mouth. That is shitty. Speak for yourself.
I ask that each person reading this thread read the exchange this buster character is claiming asks him to support Republicans. Buster is making that up, and should be resoundingly rejected for doing so.

[truebluegreen]

95. +100

[busterbrown]

109. What is shitty, is telling me not to support Surveillance states... My whole point was that I

don’t support surveillance states and I am asking people like you who are we going to support politically to get us out of the mess.. Not one has given me an answer’
Stup with the accusations and finger pointing..

[treestar]

91. You said it. We don't even get to wonder if maybe, just maybe, Eddie was wrong to do what he did

Or even raise the issue at all, or we are "totalitarian griefers."

[Sunlei]

23. why don't you name your "I can name perhaps as many as 10" so we can tell what your expectations r.

in the OP please.

[busterbrown]

58. Sanders, Grayson, Wyden, Warren, Murphy for starters.

Now please continue..

[Sunlei]

74. good people as admin, but not presidential material or better than O. today

[busterbrown]

106. Agree....Who are the Obama bashers pushing for....Not one reply yet..

[Sunlei]

115. no one should give the Rs any early next pres. election attack target.

I prefer any announcements over who's in the race or who we personally are for wait until the last second necessary.

People are allowed to criticize and question President Obama in my world.

I don't think they should be badgered over that free speech or forced to pick someone else or shut up.

[Generic Brad]

27. Amazing. I have not seen one person recommended yet who could fulfill expectations

If Obama is so horrible - who would be better? Apparently no one can meet expectations here.

[xtraxritical]

38. What kind of miricals are expected of the President with this

f-ing Tbag Congress?

[busterbrown]

59. Someone asked me my five.. Thanks for noticing.

Grayson, Sanders, Wyden, Warren and Murphy from N.Y.

[Generic Brad]

131. Maybe I had you on ignore

That's my excuse.

[busterbrown]

134. You’re not the only one..

Funny not one answer from the bashers and its mon. nite...
I guess you can continue with your sarcasm...I’ll be waiting...

[tularetom]

28. It's like art - I can't define what I'd like but I'll know it when I see it

As far as Obama is concerned, nobody twisted his arm and forced him to run for the office. He knew what he was getting into, so I think he was somewhat disingenuous.

Overall he has been an OK president, miles ahead of the asshole who preceded him and marginally better than the last Democrat to hold the office. However he has not met the expectations that a lot of us had for him, primarily because of his own campaign oratory.

Unfortunately I don't see any improvement on the horizon when I hear who the possible contenders are for the office in 2016.

[ancianita]

167. Incorrect. No matter how brilliant a politician, no one with his experience "knew" what he's getting

into. He's gotten lots of schooling from former Democratic presidents, but he himself has really been the creative one to be able to accomplish as much as he has with with wall of corporate shmuckery he's had surrounding him.

I generally agree with everything else you've said. I've hated his appointment of Holder, but I'm pretty sure that there's more to their work together than I know.

[NorthCarolina]

36. So if Obama "is practically powerless", is he then just a figurehead?

Also, can you please define the level of "practically" in reference to his actual ability to function beyond the role of a figurehead?

Thank you.

[NuclearDem]

39. Easy answer to this:

"And finally, what do you think would happen politically if a terrorist attack was perpetrated on our shores after our President derailed some these National Security Operations.. "

Remind them Bush was President on 9/11/01. Republicans trying to claim being better on national security are full of shit.

[NRaleighLiberal]

40. Very weak.

What is your definition of an Obama basher? Are single criticisms allowed? Is there a threshold number? 2 or 3?

We have a president who is "practically powerless over the MIC" - so what is there to cheer about in that statement?

What would happen politically if there is an attack? So we have torn up our rights to play politics so that we get elected instead of them - great comparison - an awful country, or a very awful country?

Give ammo to the other side? This is not a game. We are people with lives that are impacted by what does and does not go well in different ways, all colored by our expectations.

This OP is an insult to intelligent, broad minded, thinking Democrats who can think for themselves.

[truebluegreen]

96. Yea! +100

[stupidicus]

41. Right, just shut-up about such things

that'll put an end to it.

I've read and heard that's the most effective tactic in stopping everything from spouse abuse to...

I don't quite understand your "losing" math either. The fact that as far as I know no terrorists atacks have been prevented by the spying alone notwithstanding, why would the same voters that demand and end to all the spying then turn around and blame him/the dems and not vote for them, which your stuff seems to be assuming?

And isn't he the one that put chained cpi on the bargaining table without such occurring anyway?

I'd say calling your math "fuzzy" is about as politely as it can be described.

[1StrongBlackMan]

152. No ...

The question was "Name someone that could/would meet your expectations." Should be pretty simple since President Obama and Democrats are some Universe awful. No?

[stupidicus]

171. yes

I have no duty to answer a question about whether or not some pol/s would adequately meet my expectations of them. The only ones I'd cite are those with a track record. Hell, I voted for BHO twice with low expectations, and they haven't exactly been satisfied.

I did however choose to respond to the material that provides a foundation for the top poster having his expectations met, which would appear to be a bit higher than mine.

BHO/the dems aren't as bad as the alternative, but then some are satisfied with that, no?

[rury]

42. Excellent OP, busterbrown

DU is full of people who support candidates until they assume office and have to GET RESULTS while dealing with obstructionist Republicans, conservative Democrats, liberal purists AND big money in our Kabuki Democracy.
President Obama has done and continues to do a remarkable job in the face of all of this bullshit!!

[ancianita]

168. Well said. Agreed.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. I wonder how many consider where the MONEY comes from for these programs.

[Iggo]

47. Define Obama basher.

[Skittles]

48. anyone who has ever been critical of the current president

and I mean *EVER*

[Major Hogwash]

53. Some of those people were criticizing President Obama before he was the President.

Which tells me that the high level of criticism that is still being flung at President Obama would not have happened if he were not a black man.

Hillary supported the NSA and the FISA court as well.
But, no one here seems to remember that.

[Skittles]

69. yes, Hillary is NEVER criticized

[Demit]

70. Maybe some people are "flinging" criticism at the half that is white.

Your post is so interesting. It seems you think the current criticism of Obama can only be 'flung', implying that the criticism is willy-nilly and is never justified. You don't specify what criticisms some of "these people" had of Obama when he was a candidate, but I assume you didn't consider the criticisms valid then, either.

You also seem to subscribe to the notion of the one-drop rule. Barack Obama is as much white as he is black. Exactly 50% and 50%. But you disregard the white part and think of him as only black. And imply that the criticism of him wouldn't exist if he were 100% white. So it seems that, in your view, a man has to be 100% white before you allow that criticism of him could maybe, possibly, be based on principle. Or at least that's what I have to conclude from your post.

[NorthCarolina]

103. I think many of those that criticized Obama prior to the election

did so because they saw through his Liberal Leftist campaign schtick, and pegged him as the DLC New Dem corporatist that he obviously turned out to be. In retrospect, these folks are now being vindicated as the truth slowly comes out.

[Iggo]

67. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[geek tragedy]

73. The idiots who believe every single bad thing about him posted at DU

by supposed leftists.

There's a big group of people here who turn off their brains when it comes to Obama--they choose to believe every bad thing they hear and the complain that others who engage in critical thinking don't agree.

[Iggo]

78. Well that'd be about zero, then, which is troubling news.

Because now it's either everybody who has ever criticized him for anything (which is everyone on this board). Or it's everybody who believes everything bad about him they've ever heard (which is nobody on this board).

Or it's both, meaning the definition of Obama bashers then is everyone and no one. Not a very satisfying definition, I admit.

[geek tragedy]

86. Did you miss the latest poutrage over Obama implementing the Emergency Broadcast

System on the Internet?

Complete with calls for impeachment and people trying to decide which country to move to avoid Obama's iron fist of oppression.

Sure, there are only a few who believe the rightwing stuff (Benghazi, IRS) but there are plenty who lap up with great eagerness any accusation or complation originating purportedly from the left.

[davidpdx]

61. While I agree with you for the most part

I think both sides need to start toning down the screeching. The other day there was a good post from Cali, who lately has been pretty vocal about this as many have, where she made concessions about some of her take on the whole thing (Cali if I'm wrong about that feel free to correct me and hit me over the head). I thought this was very honorable and it should be a sign we should start coming together after 3 weeks of non-stop bitching, whining, complaining and moaning by almost everyone on DU (certainly not everyone).

My opinion of what is going on is mixed as I can agree with some on both sides.

The point is eventually this is going to be over, Snowden will go off to whichever country he chooses, and then we need to come together to push for reform.

As I posted the other night and repeat here:

[NoOneMan]

62. Getting a party to endorse you basically disqualifies you from fulfilling political expectations

Oh the promises you must make, the dirt you must wade through, and the favors you must deliver...No shower will wash off that dirt.

So no...those in the system, who were accepted as viable candidates by the system, aren't the ones we can trust to fix the system. The solution to our problems cannot be solved through conventional politics, which are nothing but a distraction

[MADem]

63. Not getting a party to endorse you ensures you are a distraction. You will not win. You may not

be allowed into the debate, even.

Conventional politics needs reform. Campaign finance, equal time, etc.

[NoOneMan]

64. Not seeking an endorsemnt means more time for real tangible solutions

Like ensuring there is local food, water and housing security. You don't need a letter next to your name and a loftly title to actually make a real difference while the "grown ups" are bickering

[MADem]

65. But that's not "politics." That's helping your neighbors. I do that all the time.

All politics is local, but not all outreach programs to help those in need are political....

[NoOneMan]

66. Thats real solutions, and you don't find that in politics

In politics you find corporate reach-arounds disguised as heroic benevolence.

[patrice]

68. Politicians go where their support is in order to proceed with their broader issue agenda.

There is no percentage for them in responding to those who are theirr sworn enemies and there is SYNERGY between Obama's sworn enemies and what calls itself "the Left", synergy that "the Left" pretends is not there. That synergy is pushing this administration to the right in reaction to these attacks.

I am not saying that people should not stand in opposition to bad policy; they most definitely should and they should stand strong, but the effective way to do that is through constructive criticism that identifies both the positive and the negative, not through destructive power-hungry attacks designed to subtract supporters and brainwash possible allies. Notice how the attack crew never says anything positive about the Obama administration; the reason for that is that if they did, they would lose their more right-wing cohort (Recs and Likes and such) that is the right-wing cohort that is amongst them but that they are pretending isn't there. These attacks make it more likely that authentic Left associated issues will not succeed. It's interesting that that doesn't seem to matter. Apparently everything is expendable in the name of power.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. What I notice is that some of us have countered bad policy and made change

on DADT and DOMA and some progress sought for many years has been won. I also notice that all though those processes, the 'moderates' were constantly weezing and whining about how we did it, when we did it, who did it and yet we got what we wanted. We were called 'pony wanters' our agenda was 'poutrage'.
So the key is to ignore the blathering center and right when seeking to make change.
What great goals of yours have been met? I have a list a mile long. Maybe if you did things more like we do, you too could achieve historic progress. Sounds better than the constant whining.
We could review your own posts on DOMA and DADT. Shall we? Might be fun. Most centrist straights were very vocal that we were 'doing it wrong' and some attacked Dan Choi as a liar and every other thing. But we won, then you all wanted credit for the victory.

[patrice]

121. Issues that have constituencies which cross all party lines are one thing. Other issues that have

different demographics are something else and, yet, those other issues are more at risk, especially if they annoy the professionals.

Go ahead and do your inquisition on my user account here, but be aware that I know there is a cohort here that distorts anything that doesn't conform to the current message dictums. I also understand why it is that way and how that works, i.e. the purpose and function of that kind of control, but don't ever expect me not to be honest with others about that, even when I fundamentally agree with an issue.

People must choose. Those who prevent that may achieve political success, but they are not changing anything.

[tallahasseedem]

72. +1

Word.

[Scuba]

75. I miss the unrec button.

[Iggo]

79. For truth.

[Deep13]

76. Telling the truth is not "bashing." nt

[progressoid]

81. ...

[AnotherMcIntosh]

82. "he in fact is practically powerless" yet we must be silent or "we will have little hope of change"?

If he is a powerless figurehead, why should he care?

[Doctor_J]

83. This post is really absurd

First you say he's powerless, then you say it's crucial that we vote. Did you even read this rant before you pressed "Post"?

It's going to the trash can now. Good bye

[NRaleighLiberal]

100. +1000 n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

87. So DU Democrats are 'bashers' our Democratic President is 'powerless' and yet you

have issues with the criticisms of others? You are calling the President powerless and weak, his electorate fickle bashers. Is that not helpful to the GOP? Is that not very critical of Obama and divisive among those who voted for him and vote for other Democrats?
Got to say brownie, the future is all about candidates who are not Obama. This thing you are doing which tears apart the future to protect the present is a bad choice of tactics.

[busterbrown]

111. Again with the generalities..

Anyone but Obama? That makes sense. I have an appreciation for Obama for some of his accomplishments, but I have urgent concerns about the Military Industrial Complex and I am asking people who blame this whole mess on Obama to give us names of people we can support.. Not one person has done so..

[ancianita]

169. When you put it that way, I get it.Thanks. I keep having to raise my awareness about who lurks here.

[treestar]

89. Just call Elizabeth Warren, when she is President

Everything will go as desired.

[JoePhilly]

102. 100 replies, but not one that names those who would be likely to

fulfill the expectations of those most disappointed in Obama.

I didn't count your list of 5 or so. And I did not count Treeestar's mention of Warren.

The folks who have been disappointed with Obama from day 2, will remain disappointed until his last day.

At which point, its very likely that Hillary Clinton will become the target of their disappointment.

They will continue to believe that you can take a very liberal candidate and run them in rural Alabama and have them win a house seat.

But they can't name even a handful of candidates.

The country is heavily divided between red and blue ... creating a totally divided government ... but where do the most disgruntled folks focus, on the division between light blue and dark blue.

[mikekohr]

108. BINGO! Remember 2000 and those that thought Al Gore was not pure enough.

They gave us George W. Bush. How'd that work out?

"You do not have to be smart to be successful in politics, but you do need to know how to count."
-Robert F. Kennedy-

[JoePhilly]

110. YUP ... and we didn't learn from that ... nor did we learn anything from 2010.

Democrats fighting with democrats is a great way to lose elections and ensure that we get NONE of what we want, and LOTS of stuff we hate.

I continue to believe that much of it is intended to depress turn out, not of the far left, but of people in the middle who lean left. The folks that don't pay attention to the details of the various issues, but on their "sense" of things from election to election.

If those folks come to believe that the government is too broken to fix, or to scary to trust, that group will shrug its shoulders and stay home.

[busterbrown]

113. Hey Joe....

My point.. Many on this site have turned my original question into an argument stating that I don’t want change. That I support a Surveillance state.. Bullshit.. I’m asking for a path...No answers yet...

[JoePhilly]

116. I used to ask a similar question ...

when folks were calling for a primary of Obama before 2012. It was clear that no such thing was ever going to happen.

So I started to ask those who were most upset ... "Who is the acceptably liberal candidate for 2016?" I'd point out that they needed to figure out who that was and get them promoted quickly because you can't wait until 2015 to find this person and get them the visibility they'd need.

As you are finding here ... I got very few direct responses to that question.

I suspect these folks will complain away the time. And then be very angry and disappointed when Hillary Clinton wins the 2016 nomination.

[busterbrown]

133. I’ve been the target of abuse thats for sure..

But I really love the “anyone but Obama” comment.. Yea stay at home...Another great answer..

[SunSeeker]

123. Don't hold your breath.

They've got no answers. I fear a repeat of 2010 with Obama-bashers on the left doing the Republicans' work for them. Who needs voter ID laws when these Dems are working so hard to suppress the vote?

[busterbrown]

135. Yea, that staying at home comment will really tear at the guts of the Military Industrial Complex..

[SunSeeker]

139. Sigh. If they saw our Home Page, they'd chuckle in their martinis.

"Look ma, no hands. They're suppressing the vote without me having to lift a finger."

[MrSlayer]

104. It's not just him, the whole party are sellouts.

With few exceptions. 2009 showed it. That was when this party and it's leader (Obama) could have done a tremendous amount of good, could have ended Reaganism as we know it, could have rolled the Republicans and wiped them out forever. But what did they do instead? Bent over backward to appease those sons of bitches and act like scared little punks, afraid to actually use the power the People gave them to help us. All we heard was "we need to look ahead", "we need to reach out", "bipartisanship" and other weasel words that meant "we're not going to rock our masters' boat" and "you're fucked either way".

Please spare us. Reagan's ninth term carries on and this President, like the previous five, is no friend of the People. I'm tired of the excuses, like if he had the opportunity all these great things would happen. They had the opportunity and they pissed it away.

And all that bleating "what if another 9/11 happened? Oh noes!" is horseshit too.

[polichick]

112. Our system makes whores out of politicians...

no matter what their original intention - and the "supreme" court just made sure those whores will keep on putting out. Sad. True. Disgusting.

[Xyzse]

117. I've actually limited my criticism of Obama.

It would have been nice, to start negotiations as to what one thinks the optimal/best possible outcome, rather than immediately going to the middle as a start. Which is a guarantee that they will ask for far more than what you wanted. It is basically giving them what they want before a compromise, which allows them to shift and be even crazier in what they ask for.

I guess, in a way, this shows how crazy they are, but it also shifted the middle to something further to the Right, while they have just jumped over the cliff, taking public perception as to what is reasonable with them.

It has promoted the false equivalence that Democrats are as bad as Republicans in regards to compromise when they have already gotten more than what they want during the 80s/90s. Such is the case in regards to many different regulations such as Health Care(the much maligned Obamacare follows pretty closely to Republican proposals back then), Environmental regulations and many things in regards to Education(which is a very dear topic for me), Military Spending, and Financial Regulations.

Many of these things are fall-out from prior administrations. I can't say that I am happy with his performance, nor will I fully criticize it either.

As mentioned, not really expecting much but I just sometimes wish that he would negotiate for the best possible outcome first, rather than heading straight to the middle which many times undercuts the Democrat's position. Like I said, in doing so, the effect is Republicans asking for far more than that, which allowed them to move beyond the realm of common sense. Making them argue against positions that they stood for in the past, which was unreasonable at the time.

----
Any how, I am a huge fan of Donna Edwards, and she has fulfilled my expectations.

[Yavin4]

118. They shat on LBJ/Humphrey and we got Nixon.

They shat on Carter and we got Reagan/Bush I.

They shat on Gore, and we got Bush II.

Now, they're shitting on Obama, and we'll probably get Chris Christie.

There is no politician that can be elected that some folks won't shit, not Howard Dean, not Elizabeth Warren, not even Dennis Kucinich.

A politician has to make compromises and deals. That's the nature of the job.

[graham4anything]

126. +1.

[DCBob]

128. +1!

[busterbrown]

136. It would be helpful if all the I hate Obama posters..

would start help with conversation of how we go about attacking our Military Industrial Complex..
This has got to start at the local level.. I wonder how many posters on this thread who are annoyed with me, are actually working at their local level for change?

I guess its easier to attack Buster...

By the way as many of you have pointed out tonight.. Still no Answers to my original post...

[great white snark]

144. Well said Yavin4.

That's why I laugh at the "Warren 2016" in some sigs...her as a candidate isn't funny but to think those people would actually support her one iota after her first concession is FUCKING HILARIOUS.

[Yavin4]

146. President Warren would make the same concessions as President Obama

If she didn't, her own party would go after her, and her presidency would be finished.

[Whisp]

162. I hear Alan Grayson can change the system

all by himself.

[DCBob]

127. Futhermore, the Obama bashers are just wasting their time..

He's going to be POTUS for the next 3.5 years, he wont be impeached, he wont be running for reelection and he is not going to change his attitudes and style of governing because a few left wingers aren't happy. So what's the point?

[busterbrown]

137. I’ve been asking myself this question for 3 weeks..

So lets start a conversation of paving a new path... Will you help?? Many on here could care less about the solution, only the addictive anger...

[DCBob]

140. Yes, of course. We need to change the conversation to something productive..

instead of destructive.

Cheers!

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Has anyone noticed …

That very few of the critics of President Obama has bothered to answer your question? From that, one can only conclude that there is no candidate that can/does meet their expectations. So what does that tell us about their willingness to live in reality?

[busterbrown]

138. I just got in and I just replied to a previous poster exactly on your point.

Addictive anger is not a path towards reeling in our Military Industrial Complex.. We need solutions and need to begin acting quickly..

Can you imagine the pressure of meeting with the Generals and Commanders of our Military/Intelligence
sector for the first time.. These guys probably would stare you down with cocky know it all smiles just daring you to try things differently.. Telling you the dangers which dwell all over the world if you do not do it as they say.... Then if attacked after some presidential changes, these military leaders would gladly let the world know how our president screwed up by not listening...

I’m just saying, the pressure on any President who is not attached at the hip with the complex must be
huge and intimidating..

[1StrongBlackMan]

142. I would have thought ...

folks would have busted off a list of 100+ folks ready willing and able to correct the mis-steps of President Obama ... apparently (as a new executive with my place of employment stated in a recent meeting) "it is far easier to be a jerk than come up with a workable solution."

To your point above, I just think Too many here have a romanticized notion of what they think the Office of the Presidency is and what it demands. The reality of the position is and demands far more than we (the citizen on the ground) can ever imagine or will ever know ... leadership is like that in any/every large organization.

And No, we will NEVER get the transpirancy that they claim to want (and IMHO, nor should we) ... Presidents make decisions, on a daily basis, that effects the lives of hundreds of millions of people, some of which have literal life and death consequences. The fact that on his watch, President Obama's (administration's) mis-steps have led to less than a thousand American deaths (the bengazi thing, the Boston thing and our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan) is a testament to the job he (and his administration) is doing.

At the end of the day, Presidents have to use their best counsel and best judgment to make decisions that we (the citizen on the ground) will never know about ... decisions, we (the citizen on the ground) would, in all honesty, be ill-equipped to make. Anyone suggesting otherwise is full of egoistic B.S.

[busterbrown]

145. Eloquently stated!!!

[Amonester]

164. Sums it up quite clearly, thanks!

After all, the POTUS is not a king who can twist arms to get the votes he wants.

He/she is the President of ALL US citizens, not just a portion of them.

He/she must take into account many different variables and complexities.

Thanks for posting.

[NoOneMan]

151. What's wrong with not being willing to accept the status quo and want a more perfect union?

Frankly, if everyone accepted the mediocrity of today's viable politician, tomorrow would probably not look a whole lot different from the first day this nation was formed. To some, that's not an acceptable reality they are willing to submit to.

[1StrongBlackMan]

154. Nothing ...

but that wasn't the question.

[NoOneMan]

155. Your question was an insult and a strawman.

Progressive critics aren't unwilling to live in reality (and alternatively, living in a fantasy). Rather, they seek to make reality better.

[1StrongBlackMan]

156. Chuck a rock ...

the dog that yelps be the dog be done hit. Insult or not.

Besides, you really would ignore the main of my post to find something to rage about? Really?

Well ... Dog be done hit!

[NoOneMan]

157. Your post insults people who criticize the president by saying they are not living in reality

A point you continue to press. Of course I am going to ignore someone's post that suggests people who do not agree with them do not live in reality. That's absurd, childish and anti-intellectual

Have fun with your dog

[1StrongBlackMan]

158. Are you kidding me? ....

Or do you just have a very short memory.

You ignore my post by calling it insulting and a strawman? No, what you ignored was my noting that "That very few of the critics of President Obama has bothered to answer (the OP's) question?" (which, BTW, you continue to do)

And your strawman is choosing to ignore my initial comment to focus on your out-rage.

So put me on ignore if you wish ... and provide more evidence of your absurdly childish, anti-intellectual and COWARDLY conduct.

[NoOneMan]

160. I suspect you are just looking for an e-fight

I apologize in advanced if this isn't your motivation. Otherwise find someone else to flex your e-muscles with.

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. Not looking for a fight ...

just pointing out your selective out-rage.

[markpkessinger]

132. Another "have you stopped beating your wife yet" post n/t

[mikekohr]

141. Another mindless responce that avoids answering the simple question in the lead post -nt-

[Zoeisright]

148. In other words, you have no answer.

Typical.

[markpkessinger]

149. A post addressed to "Obama bashers" does not deserve to be dignified with a substantive response n/t

[mikekohr]

163. And substantive your responce was not.

[creon]

153. zero

No elected politician will ever, or can ever, do what I want done. fact of life.

The world of politics is hard and unforgiving; and, is full of people who are 'long on talk and short on listen'.

Politics is war by other means; and Nixon is not the first nor the last politician who had/has a very long enemies list.

[ancianita]

165. His UNHELPFUL PARTY has contributed to this legislative cornering that he now sits in.

I blame the more experienced congressional people for their cowardice, their backroom deals that chip away at his legislative goals, like the cheap corporate donor whores that they are, always calculating their bribe-to-vote ratio before every floor vote -- letting Obama take the media hits day after day for all of them.

The House MUST be retaken.

[ancianita]

170. I'm peeved at myself for missing this thread. I'm fine with your OP, since it's taught me

a lot about how people here define 'bashing,' 'success,' 'failure' and 'disappointment.' I think you don't get an answer about who could do as well or better because few have confidence in any existing leader's intellectual, emotional capacity and character traits that Obama has. Those who are confident have a point about not revealing too soon any party aspirants for oppositional think tanks' handiwork (if they haven't got dossiers on the whole lot already).

I've held that the MIIC has been at the heart of much of Obama's 'disappointing' change in governance all along. I think that, with them, he 'gives' on some 'program initiatives,' but only if he can draw down on others. I think dealing with the MIIC has been an uphill ordeal for him, and that his visits to troops keep his already strong persistence traits stronger. He's forcing streamlining and peace upon the Empire of the Pentagon, and they and their spawn are fighting it.

His other 'drag' have the dead weight blue dogs and soft congressional bribe-to-vote ratio voters more intent on keeping their donors than doing their jobs for the country's general welfare. These drags on this party's governance continually piss me off. I'm donating to as many House races as I can afford this coming year.

Personally, I hope Hillary's going to be a different president from her husband. The MIIC's love/hate will forever be there, because of its simultaneous display mix of public respect and private contempt for civilian leadership, either directly or through their media channels. The MIIC is running this country, and its people just don't want to know it.

[Wabbajack_]

173. I wouldn't call myself "an Obama basher"

But I have to object to your theory of the President not having control over the executive branch.