Why do we sometimes act like Trump supporters?

[CajunBlazer]

Heck, with all of the talk about voter fraud, some of the stuff I read here could have come out of own Trump's mouth.

Let's quit putting out BS that would make conspiracy theorists on the left and right fringe proud. Numerous exhaustive studies have all indicated that there is no massive voting fraud in our election system.

Is there voter suppression - yes, unquestionably - Republican controlled state governments are blatant in their use of this tactic. But except for a few isolated cases, there is absolutely no proof of voter fraud.

The integrity of our voting system is the pride of the world. Let's quit trying to tear it down because we don't like the results of the election. That's not rational and it is not productive. Let's figure out how to win instead.

[hueymahl]

1. Thank you

This needs to be said over and over. Focusing of conspiracy theories of voter fraud does us nothing for the future.

[Ace Rothstein]

2. 1000

[Garrett78]

3. There's a difference between election fraud and voter fraud. Terms matter.

I'd say voter suppression could be classified as election fraud. As for voting machines being hacked or manipulated, I have my doubts.

Anyway, I've seen far too many conflate voter fraud and election fraud. When I pointed out the difference elsewhere, another poster said something like "Good luck getting the masses to tell the difference." Well, getting people to recognize the difference will be that much more difficult when even Democrats conflate the terms.

[CajunBlazer]

4. Voter suppression is not election fraud

Voter suppression, whether it be legal - created by state law, or illegal - voter intimidation, etc., is voter suppression. By definition it is not fraud. Stating voter suppression is election fraud is not accurate, it is confusing, and it is certainly not helpful. If you want the the masses to understand what voter fraud and election fraud are, you don't push that kind of narrative.

Since voting machines are not connected to the internet, they are very difficult to hack or manipulate. If there were an attempt to hack them, someone knowledgeable would have access each machine. In addition, most voting machines are actually vote counters which tally paper ballots, which if counted manually, would reveal the manipulation of the machines. If caught, someone is going to spend a lot of time in jail.

Most states and locations have sufficient safeguards in place to make it difficult if not impossible for individuals to vote improperly. Organizing such an effort on a massive scale would be impossible.

[Garrett78]

5. Agreed on voting machines, as I had said. But not on voter suppression not being election fraud.

I think removing people from voter rolls, voter intimidation, having an insufficient number of polling sites and the like all falls under the category of election fraud. The Shelby County v. Holder decision helped enable massive suppression.

Regardless, the point is that there's a difference between voter fraud and election fraud (hacking voting machines would most definitely be an example of the latter).

[CajunBlazer]

12. Again - voter suppression is not election fraud!

Continuing to push that narrative is totally counter productive.

[Garrett78]

15. You're making too much of a minor point.

I've explained why I classify voter suppression (including the illegal removal of people from voter rolls) as election fraud. You're free to disagree. I'm not pushing any narrative.

The larger point that you aren't acknowledging is that there's a difference between voter fraud (where people vote twice or vote for a dead person or vote without being registered), which is rare, and election fraud.

[CajunBlazer]

16. Whatever....

[hamsterjill]

6. I don't think it's acting like a Trump supporter when we know that Russia was able to hack the DNC

Caveat: I don't believe that the recounts will change the results of the election.

I do believe that there was Russian involvement in the political process during this election. It is the extent of that involvement that is unknown. Was Russian capable or even willing to hack voting machines. Hmmm...does anyone know the answer to that? For certain? Without doubt? Not to my knowledge.

I firmly believe that democracy should be transparent, and if the requisites for a recount have been met, then that recount needs to be allowed to go forth. If that process of recount gives Heir Trump a little grief, then I am even more for it happening.

[CajunBlazer]

7. You're confusing voter fraud with foreign intervention

Not even close to the same thing. I talking about those pushing the "the election was rigged" narrative.

[hamsterjill]

8. You're right. I was wrong.

I didn't read your thread closely enough.

n/t

[JSup]

9. Because rational thought...

...doesn't seem to inspire enthusiasm. To win we need enthusiasm which, apparently, requires conspiracy theories, lies, unicorns and rainbows (promises that won't be kept).

[CajunBlazer]

10. And lies, you forgot lies.

[JSup]

13. Nope! ;)

which, apparently, requires conspiracy theories, lies, unicorns and rainbows

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. Exactly n/t

[treestar]

14. I thought like this though now am convinced

maybe electronic machines should not be used. Not everything has to use modern technology. It seems like hacking could occur. Why not use paper and have a paper trail, so there is confirmation.