There's a serious case that Dems need to respect voters less, not more.

[DanTex]

It's hard to look at 2016 and come to the conclusion that the candidate who respected voters more won. First, Trump routinely insulted the majority of them -- everyone who wasn't a straight white christian male. Then, Trump lied constantly, and anyone will tell you that lying is a serious sign of disrespect. Fact checkers rated Trump the least honest and Hillary the most honest of the entire primary fields.

To draw a sales analogy, Trump was the late night infomercial salesman. Dishonest and scummy. But not all salespeople are like that. If you want to buy, for example, a musical instrument, typically you will get someone knowledgeable and honest who tells you facts and helps you make a good decision. I've had great experiences with salespeople when buying computer equipment.

Hillary was more a like the computer salesperson. Lots of facts, trying to come up with solutions that would actually help voters/clients with their needs, not disrespecting them with lies and false promises.

Here's the problem. People who are in the market for customized computer machinery are intelligent and well-informed about the product they buy. People who are in the late-night infomercial market are not. And the American electorate, by and large, is not intelligent and well informed.

Here's where someone says "insulting the intelligence of voters isn't going to win elections." Which is true: I don't think any politician should campaign on a platform of "you are all idiots, vote for me." But I'm not a politician.

Late night infomercial salesmen don't say "you are going to buy this because you are dumb and will believe anything". Instead they lie. But you can be quite sure that behind the scenes, the people crafting the marketing strategy aren't thinking "gee, people looking to buy snake oil at 1am are really smart discerning people, let's make an honest case about how our product will suit their needs."

The Dems need to recognize that their audience, the electorate, is dumber than they think.

[COLGATE4]

1. The great H.L. Mencken nailed it almost 100 years ago

"Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the American public".

[DanTex]

2. Along those lines, this gem from Mark Twain:

“Hain't we got all the fools in town on our side? And hain't that a big enough majority in any town?”

[COLGATE4]

4. The more things change...

[Cosmocat]

3. It is a absolute fatal flaw for liberals

in today's environment to be tethered to facts and reality ...

Not sure how to get past it.

[COLGATE4]

6. If getting the shit kicked out of us for three elections running

doesn't make the point clear, I don't think we'll ever get past it.

[Cosmocat]

18. Yeah, I suspect we will continue to bring cupcakes

to the gun fight.

[RKP5637]

27. I'm seriously beginning to think we won't make progress. I grew up with democrats that kicked

ass and did not whimper. Today, I see little of the old time hardcore democrats. My father was one of them. Kicked ass and carried a big stick, and always won elections as a tough hard nosed democrat.

[el_bryanto]

10. And there's a valid question of whether we actually want to break that tether to reality

I mean it might make us more electable, but seems like the decision to be dumber would have downsides as well

Bryant

[DanTex]

14. That's the question.

There is a downside. It comes naturally to the GOP since their whole platform is based on falsehoods. For the Dems, we're selling the correct solutions, but we have to stop pretending that the electorate is smart enough to understand that or even care.

[think]

15. Bernie Sanders uses the exact opposite philosophy. He strives to inform the voters so they will make

better decisions.

How many ordinary people knew Carrier was owned by a major defense contractor? How many ordinary Americans knew the former CEO of that company got a golden parachute of over $100 million dollars? How many knew the Americans jobs that are moving to Mexico will pay only $3 per hour?

These are important facts and thankfully Bernie is making sure the American people are aware of them.

Bernie Sanders understands the American people aren't idiots. He also understands that the major news networks aren't informing the American people.

There is a reason Bernie wanted very much the leadership position of outreach chair in the Senate for the Democratic party. He hopes to go out across America , speak to the American people, and help inform them on important issues as he did during his campaign.

Working to help the American people understand complex issues to make better decisions is the kind of spirit I hope the party emulates and chooses to embrace.

[Cosmocat]

19. Bernie's approach is clearly the best, but

he is a politician, too, and he damn well knows how full on stupid this country is, which is why his message is so simplistic.

He was pitching free college knowing full well that it was not as simple as he made it out to be, for example.

BUT, he is and remains right that the primary battlefield has to be a populist economic one, and he has a wonderful ability to not get mucked up in a policy pitch like the average dem does and presents things in a MUCH simpler form.

[radical noodle]

28. Yet most people

will only know and remember that "Trump kept the jobs from moving to Mexico." That's it.

[think]

29. Yes. Bernie is just one voice in the Democratic party. Other Democrats would need to be as vocal

as Bernie if there would be any large scale success in informing the majority of the American people.

[radical noodle]

30. The media will largely ignore it

The people we're discussing don't pay that much attention. We can have Bernie and others on MSNBC telling the facts until the cows come home, but they aren't watching.

[pscot]

5. If we're so smart

how come the Republicans will be in complete control of he federal government and 37 states come the new year? I must be missing something.

[DanTex]

8. Because we're not so smart. The GOP understands that the electorate is full of

idiots, and we haven't figured that out yet.

[pscot]

13. Aretha explains it

[Cosmocat]

20. THIS

the know the market MUCH better than we do.

[JHan]

7. depressingly true :(

[democrank]

9. Your last sentence just about wraps up the Democratic Partys message problem.

Couldn`t be clearer.

There are plenty of intelligent, well-informed citizens who aren`t in the market for customized computer machinery.Some of the smartest people I know are fresh out of the backwoods, and they`re exactly the folks I`d turn to if I wanted information.

[think]

11. What was the success to President Obama's campaign? He did pretty good in his elections.../nt

[DanTex]

12. He was a much more talented and charismatic speaker.

But even that wasn't enough to help the Dems downballot. The Dems need to abandon the idea that voters are intelligent and well-informed. Hopefully if there is a silver lining to Trump's victory, it's that Dems will figure this out.

[Cosmocat]

22. Two things

1) As the other response noted, he is a legendarily charismatic individual
2) But, even at that his message was extraordinarily amorphic. He got into policy discussions at times, but when he had a general audience he spoke in VERY broad and generalistic terms. But, the wording and the messenger was so inspirational people tended to put what they wanted to think into it. In other words, he as a extraordinary politician.

[Garrett78]

33. And let's not forget that it's rare for the same party to hold the...

...White House for more than 8 consecutive years.

And Clinton was victimized by decades of hate. A different Democrat running with the same exact message would have won.

[Cosmocat]

35. Yep

I seriously don't know that this country just is not that stupid, but you are absolutely correct about the same party and what they did to Hillary.

[Trust Buster]

16. This election was a referendum on the state of the American people. The American people are in

worse shape intellectually than we thought. I didn't appreciate Susan Sarandon during the election cycle because I was pretty certain Hillary would win. But, Sarandon said something that stuck with me. Perhaps Trump and the Republicans destroying everything is the only way to wake up a distracted America.

[Cosmocat]

24. DISTRACTED

is spot on. I have spoke and posted for the last decade plus as I have seen this all unfold, while we are living primary in debt, our standard of living is so high we are veered into this superficial view of the world and life that is further heightened by electronic distractions.

We just are too far removed from the consequences of right wing politics, so their banal appeal to the lesser aspects of who we are have greater traction.

[radical noodle]

31. That seems a bit simplistic to me

Destroying everything gives them full control over much of the messaging that most people watch. We have lost the Supreme Court, the one chance we had against them and now it's gone... thanks to people like Sarandon who had nothing at all to lose.

[treestar]

17. Very true

It's clear now people would rather believe their delusions than find out what is really true.

[ucrdem]

21. Thanks to President Obama and his admin

they could afford to pretend that they were broke. If they really were, Dems would have swept like in 2008.

On the other hand, it appears that we did.

[Historic NY]

23. Maybe when people start dying again because they don't have affordable health care,

lose their SS and out spend their medicare vouchers, The hard lesson will come home. People forget Republicans opposed social Security, Medicare & Medicaid and of course the ACA (Obamacare) tooth and nail, from the very beginning.

[Cosmocat]

25. sadly our last hope BUT

It very well, unfortunately may have to come to that.

BUT, don't rule out the sheeple taking whatever bullshit frame blaming on the evil liberal hook, line and sinker.

I suspect we are going to either have a real crisis or some hyped up crisis that they will use to scare the $hit of out the dolts in this country to leave them in power to play it all out, and to then say they need time to clean up their mess, which would be "our" fault somehow.

[RKP5637]

26. Yep, been saying that for years, Americans are stupid. US United Stupidity!

The Dems need to recognize that their audience, the electorate, is dumber than they think.

[Fast Walker 52]

32. It goes against our instincts, but you are correct-- we are too honest and wonky

[Garrett78]

34. Ignorance, willful ignorance, bigotry and religion.

Huge percentages of Americans believe some of the most ridiculous things imaginable. Some are truly ignorant (it doesn't help that we have a dreadful ratings-focused media that promotes false equivalencies), while others simply believe what they want to believe. And studies have made it clear that "Facts Backfire."

And let's not kid ourselves, racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia and heterosexism takes precedence for a lot of folks. There's an immense amount of hatred for persons of color, women, LGBTQ, non-Christians and the poor. Consider how the audience responded to Megyn Kelly reading some of Trump's most misogynistic quotes. Or how the audience reacted when Ron Paul was asked in a debate if people without health insurance should just die.

A large percentage of the electorate simply can't be reached by the Democratic Party. I'm not sure dumbing down the message is going to win over the likes of those who voted for Trump. For which there was no excuse.

But voter suppression can be addressed. And Democrats can do more to give voice to those who are struggling--find folks who can speak at rallies instead of just speaking for them. And, yes, Dems can do more outreach to the rural areas of purple states like Obama did...but that's not the same as buying into the ridiculous "working class whites" narrative promoted by some at DU.

40% of eligible voters don't vote in presidential elections and 60% don't vote in mid-term elections. Democrats finding a way to engage even a fraction of the disengaged would make a big difference.