The Liberal Case Against Donating to Jill Stein's Hail Mary Recount

[oberliner]

Give your money instead to Louisiana's Foster Campbell, who desperately needs it.


For those of you slowly coming to grips with the prospect of spending four years treading water in the deep, dark ocean that is the forthcoming Donald Trump administration, the life preserver suddenly proffered by Jill Stein might appear quite promising. Stein, the Green Party presidential candidate who scored around one percent of the popular vote nationwide, began soliciting donations this week to fund recount efforts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania—all states that Hillary Clinton lost—based on reports of "statistical anomalies" in the voting results. Stein first asked for $2.5 million, but quickly revised her methodology when she hit that number in less than 24 hours. Explaining that $2.5 million was merely the price tag for filing fees, she hiked the target to $4.5 million, and then again to $7 million. The thermometer-style donations counter on her web site passed $5 million as I typed this paragraph.

Although Stein doesn't expressly say so, the "statistical anomalies" she invokes presumably refer to reports that Russian hackers may have manipulated the results in those three critical states that unexpectedly went Donald Trump's way. On Tuesday, New York magazine reported that a group of concerned "prominent computer scientists and election lawyers" were urging Clinton to pursue recounts. One of these computer scientists quickly penned a lengthy Medium post clarifying that he believes it possible, but not likely, that any foreign hacking occurred. Still, reports like this were good enough for Stein, who launched her fundraiser shortly thereafter.

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In Louisiana, Democrat Senate hopeful Foster Campbell is mired in a tough runoff election, and a Campbell victory would result in a Senate of 51 Republicans and 49 Democrats—a majority, sure, but the smallest majority possible. A real live election hangs in the balance, and Foster Campbell could really use some money right now! Donating seven million dollars to a battle already lost instead of one that can still be won is wasteful at best and delusional at worst.

http://www.gq.com/story/case-against-jill-stein-recount

[Hannahcares]

1. Support the Greens Recount Efforts!

I worked on the Green Party Recount Efforts in Ohio after the 2004 election mischief. They were incredibly professional, dedicated, and very savvy about possible precinct election manipulations.
While their efforts did not change the election outcome, much was learned about needed improvements in electronic Voting and tabulation procedures. Many of these improvements, like printed receipts from electronic machines were later implemented.

I encourage everyone to support these recount efforts!! These auditing and recount efforts have been suggested by well-respected academic election activists like Jonathon Simon from the Election Defense Alliance, author of Code Red, computer scientists like Alex Halderman of the university of Michigan, Philip Stark from the University of California and many others. We are not talking about Russian hackers here, we're talking about software to alter voting and scanning totals. See articles on "cumulative vote share... (Please stop suggesting that something nefarious is going on here, other than a sincere effort to verify the actual voting results in the recount states )
Peace, Hannah

[oberliner]

4. What happens to the extra money?

I look forward to their full accounting of all 6 million+ dollars they raise.

[Glassunion]

13. Accounting...

Filing fees: $2.5 million
Stuff: $3.6 million
Things: $2.1 million

[Statistical]

18. What accountability. It was donated to her campaign fund. It will be used for campaigning.

You know like in Michigan 2016 where Stein got 50K votes (30K more than 2012) and Clinton lost by 10K.

[oberliner]

19. And yet Democrats continue to give her money

It's unfortunate.

[saltpoint]

2. The Clinton team has endorsed Stein's recount

effort by joining it.

A closer look at the ballots would not hurt. A specific cyber hack need not be the source of suspicion, as there are other ways to cheat. No harm in getting an accurate count.

[oberliner]

3. No they haven't

They said that they will have representatives at the recount to make sure it is conducted properly.

[saltpoint]

6. Between Endorse and endorse, then, but

they are paying lawyers to attend the proceedings as opposed to issuing a statement denouncing the effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us/politics/clinton-camp-will-join-push-for-wisconsin-ballot-recount.html?_r=0

This may or may not be grandstanding by Jill Stein, but no one knows right now if any irregularities will be found or if any percentages would change the election results. Someone may know something we don't. We don't know if that's so and we won't find out what it is unless there's a recount exposing it.

I think a recount effort is one Dr. Stein could raise at this time but not the Clinton camp. The Clinton camp potentially benefits from an overturn, and no matter the odds of that overturn, it is politically cleaner IMO that Stein initiate these recounts.

[oberliner]

20. Fair enough

It's certainly not a bad thing that this is happening. I just wish Jill Stein wasn't taking advantage.

[saltpoint]

21. oberliner, I was extremely unimpressed by

the Stein campaign this year. I thought there were dozens of things they could have done a whole lot better, speaking strictly from a pragmatist's viewpoint.

And that vaccine thing -- my god, what in hell were they trying to do with that? I have no idea, but it disrupted the campaign significantly. And as a campaign, it was more or less dead in the water to start with.

Let's not worry about Jill Stein as an influential political figure. Her percentages were perfunctory and will not impact the course of U.S. political life.

We also don't know for sure Stein is taking advantage of this. Any entity with the proper filing qualifications can make such an effort. No sense in blaming Stein for doing it here. We also don't now the origin of the money she's raising. Some of it certainly would be from individual donors. But she raised a lot in a short time. A list of donors might be instructive if our democracy were more transparent than it is.

Many members of this site raised cash to send roses to Senator Boxer in the 2008 election when she called for an investigation of voting irregularities in a county or two in SW Ohio. We have no hard evidence at all that Boxer's impulse toward a fair outcome then was any different than Stein's for Wisconsin now.

[Dream Girl]

5. You really don't want this to happen do you?

[oberliner]

7. I want people to stop sending money to Jill Stein who was and continues to be anti-Hillary

She is as bad as Trump as far as attacking, maligning, and attempting to destroy Hillary Clinton and Democrats in general.

[saltpoint]

8. Too late -- the recount fundraising has

already exceeded initial expectations.

There is quite an appetite for it, in fact.

The media report, accurately, that the Clinton team has 'joined,' 'will participate in,' and 'will back' the recount effort initiated by Dr. Stein.

If the Clinton camp wanted nothing to do with the recount effort, it could say so in no uncertain terms.

[oberliner]

12. The Clinton camp is definitely participating

However, they were not urging people to give money to Jill Stein.

[saltpoint]

14. They don't have to. Clinton's attorney's

are being paid by the Clinton campaign, however.

[JTFrog]

9. Donating again. You aren't gonna stop this sorry.

Donating to one doesn't mean we can't donate to the other.

[oberliner]

17. Are you saying you donated in the LA race?

If so, then that is great.

[JTFrog]

22. Yes. nt

[jalan48]

10. We have had questionable results for years.

This is an important check for our democracy.

[FBaggins]

11. The almost-zero chance of the recount producing anything...

... is still higher than the chance of Campbell winning LA.

While I think the recount is driven by irrational conspiracy theories, a few million dollars is a tiny price to pay to ease the fears of some that our elections are suspect.

[Grey Lemercier]

15. I donated to both, so don't hate the playa, hate the game

[oberliner]

16. I can respect that

Here's hoping for positive results.

[TheFrenchRazor]

23. you seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against Stein. nt

[oberliner]

24. Yes, indeed

She worked aggressively to do everything possible to defeat Hillary Clinton, so I very much do not like her.