Rust Belt Dems broke for Trump because they thought Clinton cared more about bathrooms than Jobs

[brooklynite]

The Washington Post

YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio—Back in May, the longtime chairman of the Mahoning County Democratic Party sent a private memo to leaders in Hillary Clinton’s campaign warning that she was in grave danger of losing not just Ohio but also Pennsylvania and Michigan unless she quickly re-tooled her message on trade. His advice went unheeded.

“I don’t have to make the case that blue collar voters are, to put it mildly, less than enthusiastic about HRC’s positions on trade and the economy,” David Betras wrote in his 1,300 word missive, citing her struggles in recent primaries.

...snip...

“More than two decades after its enactment, NAFTA remains a red flag for area voters who rightly or wrongly blame trade for the devastating job losses that took place at Packard Electric, GM, GE, numerous steel companies, as well as the firms that supplied those major employers,” Betras, a practicing attorney, tried to explain to the Clinton high command. “Thousands of workers in Ohio … continue to qualify for Trade Readjustment Act assistance because their jobs are being shipped overseas.”

...snip...

“Look, I’m as progressive as anybody, okay? But people in the heartland thought the Democratic Party cared more about where someone else went to the restroom than whether they had a good-paying job,” he complained. “‘Stronger together’ doesn’t get anyone a job.”

[cilla4progress]

1. Valuable feedback

Listen to Tom Friedman on On Point on NPR this morning. Very cogent discussion of trade.

I see how this could be a problem. Rural voters aren't really onboard with the social agenda of the left.

[kcr]

2. When this losing strategy of turning into Trump-humpers loses yet again

They will forget that they abandoned women and minorities, and it will be blamed on the minorities yet again. Because everyone knows they don't care about the Working Class tm! Nobody listens to them! The Real Workers! As the country continues its swirl down the drain and they scratch their heads wondering why the Trump-humpers STILL aren't voting for them.

Mark my words.

[BlueProgressive]

14. The working class is multi-colored and bi-sexed,

and helping them doesn't mean just helping white men... Democratic pro-worker policies will help everyone in the working class.

As a white man, I'm getting sick of hearing about the "white male working class"-- they're way less than half of it.

[kcr]

32. Yep

It's a classic dog whistle.

[Ken Burch]

52. Why do you assume that women and minorities would HAVE to be abandoned?

Nobody is saying we should STOP fighting institutional bigotry. No one. Or even that we should fight it LESS.

We just need to make sure that everyone knows we are also committed to fighting against things like outsourcing and bad trade deals. In some cases it's simply about making sure that the campaign ads and the stump speeches point up the things we already have in the platform on economic issues.

What would be needed to establish some trust on this?

[Squinch]

3. So it would appear that lots of rustbelt Dems are dumbasses. May they reap what they have sown.

[dogman]

13. They didn't sow NAFTA.

It was sown by Republicans but they managed to get Clinton to sign the Clinton name to the bill. They receive training for non-sustaining jobs in government designed programs. They've had their asses kicked and are too depressed to think critically.
When the social system has failed, anarchism seems plausible for those on the right and left.

[Squinch]

22. So you think those industries are coming back? They aren't. And Nafta isn't what moved them away.

Likewise coal isn't coming back, and neither are buggy whips.

[dogman]

24. Really?

I wrote that the failure of the retraining to provide sustainable jobs is a reason they do not trust their government. They are fucked and don't really seem to care that everyone will be now. What did they sow that they are now reaping?

[Statistical]

28. No evidence NAFTA has cost any jobs. Automation has cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

US manufacturing output is at an all time high. The "problem" is US manufacturing employee productivity is at an even higher all time high. It simply takes less people to produce the goods we do.


[img][/img]

Repealing NAFTA isn't going to magic some jobs back. One example is that today it take an average of 30 manhours to produce a car (including all components, final integration is about 16 hours). In 1990 that was 58. In 1970 that was 75. The trend is even longer than that. In 1910 it was 300 manhours to produce a car (a far smaller and less complex one at that).

[dogman]

31. That is not their perception.

The evidence they have is that the job they had was shipped to Mexico. You will never get their vote telling them to get over it and go take a job for less pay.

[Statistical]

36. Well I agree that that is the perception.

However much like Trump claiming he will bring coal jobs back and ending NAFTA will bring jobs shipped to Mexico back ... he won't. 4 years from now the US will be worse off economically and those jobs won't be back.

I do agree however populist rhetoric helped him get elected. He sold false hope and people bought it. The problem is that false hope never fixes anything.

[Squinch]

42. So they need some narrative other than the truth of where their jobs went, or we will never

get their vote? That is a problem with them, not us or the message.

No one is telling them to get over it and go take a job for less pay. But as you have pointed out, their perceptions are based on wrong assumptions, and there seems to be nothing that can be done to budge them from those wrong assumptions.

I hate to have gotten here, but the inescapable conclusion is that there is nothing else that can be done for them other than to let them suffer the results of their own decisions. And that suffering is going to be severe. But we are outnumbered and outvoted, so they must be allowed to get what they think they want.

[dogman]

45. We did have a populist choice also.

The majority chose status quo which gave Rump an attack that seemed effective even though most felt he lost the debates. The disaffected felt he was in their corner because he spoke to them directly. The majority in the GE also chose status quo. You would think they would have had a better strategy to win the electoral vote since we have lost this battle before. We are not outnumbered or outvoted, we have been strategically defeated, we need smarter leadership.

[Squinch]

47. Your post has nothing to do with mine that you are responding to, and I certainly have no

interest in refighting the primary.

[dogman]

48. That's a good one.

Do a postmortem without looking at the Primary cause. Dwell in your world that could have been.

[Squinch]

49. Lol. Project much?

[Leonardo Da Biker]

54. No evidence?

I am living evidence. The best job I ever had was in a railcar repair facility which took a huge hit after NAFTA went through. Layoff after layoff was the norm where before NAFTA we had steady work year round, two full shifts working anaverage of 50 - 60 hours per week. There was a map on the wall in the boss's office which I nabbed the day we were all laid off once again. It showed Mexico, the US and Canada and had a little red dot where every railcar manufacturing or repair facility was located. Several dots in Canada, many up and down the east and west coasts of the US and a peppering across flyover country. Two dots in all of Mexico. TWO. Withing eighteen months of NAFTA there were FORTY facilities in Mexico. With the last layoff I took another welding job with a company that produced cement mixer truck drum bodies. Guess what? Six months into that job we were told our division was being closed because the parent company based in Texas was mainly in the railcar repair and manufacture business and because of massive projected losses TO MEXICO were going out of business.
My jobs went to Mexico. Juan and Pedro took my job because those guys will work for $40 per week. My job did not go to some fucking robot.

[RonniePudding]

4. Good for them

Now they can get back to whiling away their time waiting for jobs that have been done by robots for the better part of 20 years to return to their rusty little shitburgs.

Lots of luck, folks.

[politicaljunkie41910]

29. Exactly. It's long past time that politicians stop trying to save these people's hurt feelings and

give them a healthy dose of reality. Trade is and always has been good for this country. However, these agreements can result in winners and losers within this country and that's a simple reality that we have to accept. The United States makes up 5% of the world's population. That other 95% is part of some of the fastest growing industrial nations and they are looking to claim a piece of the pie as well and we had better get used to that. The world is a changing and our nation is changing as well.

The future belongs to those who accept change and are willing to adapt to it. The people of China, India, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc. are moving from the rural areas to the cities and embracing change in their countries, and so must our fellow Americans. Those who are unwilling to embrace change are destined to be left behind. Politicians need to be honest with people when they talk about trade and how much of a benefactor this country is. They also need to stop telling people what they want to hear when that politician knows that they cannot deliver on the promises that their constituents want from them. Hillary was honest with the coalminers and it cost her dearly. The GOP took her words and distorted them. But time will reveal who the liars really are and it won't take a lifetime.

[LaydeeBug]

5. They've been eating the GOP Bullshit line on jobs since 2010, and have nothing

to show for it.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

IOKIYAR

[Efilroft Sul]

7. Oh, they've bought the entire line of bullshit from the GOP for much longer than six years.

Remember "Reagan Democrats?" They were the test market 36 years ago.

[Cosmocat]

15. Correct!

nm

[SMC22307]

10. Since 1988 (Wisconsin) and 1992 (Michigan and Pennsylvania)...

Democratic presidential candidates have won. Hillary lost Ohio, which Obama won twice. The decline of the Rust Belt has been going on for DECADES... how much do you expect people to take?

Voters gave Democrats a chance. Now they're giving Republicans a chance. Democrats better be listening going into 2018 and 2020.

[emulatorloo]

33. If Trump revives the rust belt and brings back manufacturing I'll be thrilled.

Most likely that won't happen and the Republicans those voters gave a chance to are gonna fuck them over. They've already poisoned Flint's water.

[SMC22307]

37. That's pretty much where I am with this.

And in many pieces I've read, Democrats who voted for Trump state they will vote against him in 2020 if things don't improve. They're "battleground states" for a reason, and Democrats shouldn't assume they're automatically in the bag.

[emulatorloo]

38. If they are displeased w complete Republican control, I hope they come out in 2018

[SMC22307]

43. I agree. But I'm having PTSD from the '90s...

what with Newt Gingrich, et al. This fight *ain't* gonna be easy and I just hope our fearless leaders are up for it.

[napi21]

51. If tthe Con is ab;le to bring back jobs to the rustbelt "I" will support him! IMO it's impossible

him to do so. I grew up in Pa. and well remember the steel mills, blast furnaces, and lots & lots of jobs. I was there when the mills shut down, one by one. Some of the guys who worked in them found other jobs, but at much lower pay. Some of them never did find another job. I know there are still a lot of those employees around and I knew they would fall for the Con's BS about bringing their jobs back. I feel very sorry for them knowing they will be faced with the realization that the Con was conning them. He's a Bt'd forplaying with so many people's lives.

[DavidDvorkin]

6. Fools.

[LeftInTX]

8. Thanks for posting...was just reading it

Found it relevant

[Bob41213]

9. Very true IMO...

I thought the same thing since the day after the election...

[JI7]

11. that's like saying Rosa Parks was just about Bus Seats

these people are bigots and insensitive to other communities.

and Transgender people are some of the most discriminated in our society.

[BlueStater]

12. The orange fraud sure as shit isn't going to get you a job, buddy. n/t

[Orsino]

16. (And because so many are profoundly sexist, racist and bamboozled by TV.)

I rather belIeve that bathrooms are much lower down the list.

[treestar]

17. THEY were the ones worrying about who

went to the bathroom where. No person on the left has ever worried about that. What a crock. Hillary did not spend a lot of time on that if any!

It is they who don't understand anything about the economy. If they feel victimized by it, why don't they learn about it? White privilege is all they want and care about.

[el_bryanto]

19. You mean the privilege of having a job in a part of the country worst hit by

Nafta and other free trade agreements, largely supported by New Democrats like, say, the Clintons?

Bryant

[treestar]

20. That oversimplifies it

THEY likely do not understand NAFTA at all and only use it as a emotional crutch. And they should learn to adjust to the modern economy. THEY are the capitalists who don't believe in any government involvement! Right wingers have NO RIGHT to complain they don't have a job. They should just get off their ass and get one. That's their response to unemployed people of color!

They should move to where the jobs are. Or be told if they were really hard working, they would be willing to do the job for the price the Chinese can do it and they can have it back. They have a lot of nerve complaining about the results of unregulated capitalism. That's what they are usually for!

[el_bryanto]

21. You are right -that does oversimplify it and reads a little bit like blaming the victim.

I take it you generally support free trade agreements of the sort that we've had the last couple of decades?

Bryant

[treestar]

40. I think they probably make it better than it would be without it

But I have had enough right wingers condemn the unemployed for being lazy that I have no sympathy with them if they are "whining" (their word for us) that they don't have a job.

I once discussed an elderly woman without enough money, they said she should MOVE to where she could get a job and there should be no assistance to her.

So if they vote right wing, they should move to where the jobs are.

[SMC22307]

39. Insult them some more.

I'm referring to Democrats who switched to Trump -- those Democrats who in MI, WI, and PA voted TWICE for Obama. They understand NAFTA and trade agreements -- they're living it every day. And why are you assuming these folks don't believe in "government involvement"? I'll use my circle up in PA as an example: the engineer family friend who worked on the turnpike, the electrician grandfather who wired state parks, the secretary grandmother who retired from a state agency. These people, and their kids and grand-kids, know full well the benefits of "government involvement." They didn't live lavish lives, but they lived good lives.

Many have watched good jobs turn into shit McJobs -- THAT is the issue. Crushing college debt for their kids. Unaffordable healthcare. Working, if they haven't given up looking, 'til the grave. Decay -- it makes me sick to see what has happened to the beautiful architecture/homes in many of those old Rust Belt towns. Seriously, look at Detroit.

Move to where the jobs are? Are 300+ million to cram onto the coasts? Once affordable cities are out of control housing-wise: DC, Portland, San Fran. How about farmers and that entire community? Let them all pour into Boston, Chicago or Seattle?

I'm astonished at the lack of empathy coming from Democrats. I live in a blue bubble, but am able to step out of it to see how others across the country live. Why aren't more doing that?

[treestar]

41. They deserve the insults if they think the

Orange Yam is going to be able to change the global economy. It will be even worse. They should quit scapegoating. Oh and anyone who voted for Obama who then switched to the Orange Yam? How stupid is that?

Come on, people who voted for the Disgusting Orange Beast are right wingers and racists, not people who voted for Obama. Or you are describing misogynists, willing to vote D unless it is a female.

Without the trade agreements, things would be even worse! The economy is going global in this century and nothing can be done about that. The Orange yam and Congress can do nothing to stop that.

The problem with right wingers is they want to go backwards in time, and the world never does.

[SMC22307]

44. Stick with that strategy...

you're not going to be happy in 2018 or 2020, either. Maybe then we'll have some new "-isms" to toss around.

I'm eating orange yams. They're delicious. Pecans, butter, dark rum, nutmeg, mmm...

[Squinch]

46. None of the issues you talk about are unique to the rust belt.

Good jobs turned into McJobs everywhere.

College debt crushes people everywhere.

Healthcare is unaffordable everywhere.

People can't fund retirements everywhere.

People who live in the once affordable cities still have to pay what those cities cost without increases in income.

We are all in that same boat. So why should I feel empathy for the Midwest Democrats for the fact that they face the same issues I do, especially when they voted for Trump and made the situation that much more awful for all of us?

Sorry. Nope. They're not special. I wish people would stop telling me that I need to feel empathy for the plight of people who face the same issues as the rest of us, they just choose to be stupid about it while the rest of us don't.

And here's a newsflash: after NAFTA is tabled, their lives are not going to be any better.

[Cosmocat]

18. 1/2 bullshit 1/2 truth

I live in a right leaning area, have inlaws who are conservatives, etc.

The first half of this is absolutely bullshit. We haven't had pocketbook elections in my adult life (three decades). EVERY election has been cultural.

Yes, Rs muddle it up with their "fiscal conservative" bullshit and have effectively brainwashed the entire country to robotically believe only they can be trusted with tax payer dollars and the evil liberal democrats will waste them all. BUT, that was founded all along in the "give aways" to "them."

For the entirety of "Trade Deals' democrats have fought them and republicans have pushed for them. Similarly, the three core aspects of the lives of the "working class" Rs are completely wrong and Ds have been right:

1) Wages, one side clearly states (including Trump) that it would have no minimum wage to allow people to be paid pennies for their work if possible. Democrats including Hillary push for an increased minimum wage.

2) Health care. One side shed political blood to pass SOME kind of reform to get 10s of millions of these working class people health care (the democrats and Hillary) the other side (including Trump) vow to tear this down on day one.

3) Retirement - the only program that ensures SOME retirement, SS, the democrates (including Hillary) vow to protect. The other side is dying to privatize it and it at risk.

And, for extra benefit - Rs are DYING to alter our tax code to give more the ultra rich and fuck you and I.

The decision, if you REALLY are concerned about your economics as a working class person is painfully obvious. You don't need to be an astro physicist to figure this out.

The 60 million who voted Trump, the voters who voted to keep asshole republicans in power at EVERY level of our government, and who voted to get them there in the first place over the years, voted culture.

The democrats have done the right thing in standing up for the rights of all, but it has been an increasingly losing battle (politically) reflected by the power they had acrued leading up to this election.

BHO is just such an extraordinary individual his power of presence glossed over it.

But, minus him, we are exposed to the reality of where this country as a whole is - we, as democrats have a very romantic and high minded notion of things, but the anger and hatred of the other half of the country does in fact "trump" these things minus a super human figure like BHO.

[Adrahil]

23. They want to believe

That Trimp can "bring back" the jobs that existed in the 60's and 70's. They are about to be very disappointed!

[yardwork]

25. This is bullshit. Read the rest of the article.

[elleng]

26. Joe Biden offers frank analysis of Democratic election losses.

Vice President Joe Biden talked about why Democrats lost the presidential election -- saying bluntly that the party had collectively overlooked key constituencies, particularly rural, working-class Americans.

“We lost because of awful lot of hard-working Americans who live in areas where we did not pay much attention to,” he said at a reception celebrating a Hindu festival. “Barack Obama won these people. They are not racist. They did not vote for the Democrats this time.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2620523

Pulling Democrats Back to ‘It’s the Economy, Stupid’

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/politics/democrats-economy.html?&_r=0

The Democrats' macro problem

'In 2004 after a humiliating collective loss of the majorities in the House, Senate and the presidency, the professional class of Democratic Party was stunned by its fractured state with voters.

Twelve years later, after winning back the presidency and historic majorities in the House and the Senate, they have collapsed again, and again that same professional class of the Democrats is back to being stunned.

The Election Day losses evaporated everything that former chairman of the national Democratic Party Howard Dean had put in place for the comeback midterms of 2006; gone was his 50-state strategy program, along with values messaging and the simple mechanics of good candidates running down-ballot. . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016171203

Many in Milwaukee Neighborhood Didnt Vote and Dont Regret It.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016171204

[SMC22307]

30. K&R

[HassleCat]

27. Why our party is in trouble.

So many responses dismissing them as bigoted, ignorant, etc. I guess our party only welcomes the votes of those who are pure, or worthy, or something. No wonder we lost.

[Skinner]

34. The headline is sensational, and doesn't really represent the content of the article.

Which is a shame because the article is worth reading. The article taken as a whole doesn't set up a black-and-white bathrooms-vs-jobs dichotomy promised by the headline. It's mostly explaining why blue collar workers in the rust belt voted for Trump.

[LaydeeBug]

35. Bullshit. Rust belt dems were out in force...suppression happened

and allowing the KGB to rewrite the narrative obfuscates the issue.

[Garrett78]

50. Why did Portman kick Strickland's ass in Ohio if trade was such an important issue there?

I keep asking that question and haven't seen an answer yet.

Besides, I'm quite certain Clinton spoke a lot more about jobs and other economic issues than she did bathrooms. I don't recall bathrooms being discussed during the campaign.

So I call bullshit.

I suspect irrational hatred for Clinton was a much bigger factor. And some had probably come to dislike Obama. Not to mention voter suppression, like having very few polling places, especially during early voting. Plus the racism, sexism and xenophobia trifecta.

The median income of Clinton supporters is lower than the median income of Trump supporters. And Clinton wanted to raise taxes on the wealthiest while increasing wages for the working class. Trump wishes to do the opposite. It was widely reported that his plans would do further damage to the economy. If people aren't willing to listen and think, what are ya gonna do?

There isn't anything Clinton could have said or done that would have won over Trump voters. At least not without hurting her more by pissing off the Democratic Party base.

Millions of people subscribe to patently false beliefs. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that 20-25% of eligible voters simply can't be reached. In this age of 24/7 infotainment, that seems rather obvious. You can't fix stupid.

[oasis]

53. "Restrooms vs. jobs". Yeah sure Betras. Seems your brain has suffered

from rust, which explains your lame cover for the misogyny and racism surrounding you.