If You FEEL IN YOUR GUT that Something STRANGE Occurred on Election Day....You may BE CORRECT!

[FrenchieCat]

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 11:10 PM - Edit history (3)

While we discuss among ourselves via 2016 Postmortem Analysis as to why we lost,

I'm one of those asking, did we really lose?
Was it a Coup? Is that even remotely possible?

We remember how D. Tramp accused the election system of being rigged, right?
And we remember how the Media made a big deal out of those statements of his,
and acted shocked and offended that D. Tramp would stoop so low as to say that.
They went on how he was questioning the very institution that makes us a democracy.

You must also remember how the corporate media pressed the Democrats to denounce Tramp on his "Rigged" statement,
and so they did...All the way down to Hillary Clinton and the President.

Now this was not the first time that "rigged election" had been brought up, as both D. Tramp and Sanders stated this during the primaries. However, it was the first time that the Corporate Media actually paid attention to the statement, as though it was the first time that they had heard it. This story of rigged election and the denouncement of D. Tramp lasted 3 days, an eternity in news world. What D. Tramp said at that same time that he brought rigged elections? Statements of jailing his opponent if he won, and how if an Iranian soldier looked at our Soldiers sideways, D. Tramp wouldn't hesitate to blow them out of the water, or something like that. Those statements didn't get much attention from the news media, but yet the rigged election statement got three days. Why?
Was it a set-up?
OR just something innocent that we don't need to talk about....
because at the time that the media was pressing that our Dem leaders make statements of assurances,
I was always skeptical, because I knew that we do have problems and have had problems with our election voting system.
It was all kind of surreal....but Hillary was ahead in the polls, and everyone and their mothers were saying that we were gonna win this thing, possibly in a landslide.

So I'm just gonna put all of these links and info I have gathered to date.
Note: All of these articles were written in the latter part of 2016


If you have additional information, please post it. Perhaps if we look at all of this info in its entirety, it will be helpful!
Also please vote in the poll below. Thanks!

According to the exit polls conducted by Edison Research, Clinton won four key battleground states (NC, PA, WI, and FL) in the 2016 Presidential Election that she went on to lose in the computerized vote counts. With these states Clinton wins the Electoral College with a count of 302 versus 205 for Trump. Clinton also won the national exit poll by 3.2% and holds a narrow lead in the national vote count still in progress.
Exit polls were conducted in 28 states. In 23 states the discrepancies between the exit polls and the vote count favored Trump. In 13 of these states the discrepancies favoring Trump exceeded the margin of error of the state. See Table and its footnotes below.
READ MORE http://tdmsresearch.com/2016/11/10/2016-presidential-election-table/

Math Increasingly Suggests Election Fraud Against Hillary Clinton - WATCH VIDEO

&feature=share


ALSO THIS FROM ALTERNET.....POSTED HERE AT DU ALREADY
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512611153


Russian hackers targeted Arizona election system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-is-investigating-foreign-hacks-of-state-election-systems/2016/08/29/6e758ff4-6e00-11e6-8365-b19e428a975e_story.html


Feds believe Russians hacked Florida election-systems vendor
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/12/politics/florida-election-hack/index.html



Cybersecurity expert: One battleground state most vulnerable to voting hacks- Pennsylvania
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-nsa-expert-if-i-were-an-election-day-hacker-id-hit-pennsylvania/



How to Hack an Election in 7 Minutes
With Russia already meddling in 2016, a ragtag group of obsessive tech experts is warning that stealing the ultimate prize—victory on Nov. 8—would be child’s play.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/08/2016-elections-russia-hack-how-to-hack-an-election-in-seven-minutes-214144



Voting machines are still too easy to hack
Worried about a 'rigged' election? You should be, but the risk lies in outdated technology and untrained bureaucrats, not voter fraud
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3114784/security/voting-machines-are-still-too-easy-to-hack.html



A hackable election: 5 things you need to know about e-voting machines
E-voting machines without paper trails are still used in several U.S. states, leading to fears that a 'determined adversary' could hack this year's election
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3099012/a-hackable-election-5-things-you-need-to-know-about-e-voting-machines.html

While Boris and Natasha attempt to meddle in American electoral politics, districts in key states dust off vulnerable touchscreen voting machines. The electronic voting machines' hackability—unrelated to online registration databases—begs extra vigilance against "bad actors" attempting to swing the vote.
Paranoia strikes deep wherever touchscreen devices, known as direct-recording electronic voting machines, or DREs, are still in use. It took a Princeton professor mere minutes to hack a machine, one which some Pennsylvania districts still use. If a "bad actor" wanted to swing the election, she would simply coordinate attacks on outdated digital voting machines in split districts across decisive swing states.
---
...three high-stakes swing states still use any unguarded DREs: Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Although Florida has replaced most of its touch screens with paper ballots, DREs without paper trails remain in use ...
A majority of Pennsylvania counties offer only touchscreen machines without audit trails, and cyber security firm Carbon Black recently declared Pennsylvania the most vulnerable.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/dont-hack-the-vote/article/2004709

Many U.S. voting systems still have vulnerabilities, and many states use statistically unsound election auditing practices, said Joe Kiniry, a long-time election security researcher.
"With enough money and resources, I don't think [hacking the election] is actually a technical challenge," said Kiniry, now CEO and chief scientist at Free and Fair, an election technology developer. "It’s a social, a political, and an infrastructural challenge because you'd have a medium-sized conspiracy to achieve such a goal. Technically, it’s not rocket science."
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3127803/security/3-nightmare-election-hack-scenarios.html

Hacker demonstrates how voting machines can be compromised
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rigged-presidential-elections-hackers-demonstrate-voting-threat-old-machines/

Which voting machines can be hacked through the Internet?
SEPTEMBER 20, 2016 BY ANDREW APPEL
Over 9000 jurisdictions (counties and states) in the U.S. run elections with a variety of voting machines: optical scanners for paper ballots, and direct-recording “touchscreen” machines. Which ones of them can be hacked to make them cheat, to transfer votes from one candidate to another?
The answer: all of them.
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2016/09/20/which-voting-machines-can-be-hacked-through-the-internet/

Reposted from poster here at DU:
Curious thing about those North Carolina Numbers
North Carolina was a very closely watched state, not only for POTUS, but also for the Senate and Governor race.

Here are the vote totals

Trump 2,339,985
Clinton 2,162,962

Others 186,205

Total 4,689,152

Clinton lost by 177,023 (less than the number of total votes for others)

Senate

Burr 2,371,679
Ross 2,103,510

Other 165,180

Total 4,640,369

There are 48,783 FEWER votes cast in the Senate Race which was hard fought and close.

Governor

Cooper 2,282,052
McCrory 2,277,070

Other 101,068

Total 4,660,190

There are 28,962 FEWER votes cast in the Governor race than for POTUS which was really contentious and nasty.
McCrory is disputing the loss (Cooper is only leading by 4,982 votes) and we may be tied up in legal battles for some time. There has yet to be a request for an official recount.

OK, here's the kicker. The really weird one, in my opinion.

We had a challenge to a NC Supreme Court judge position. The incumbent, Edmunds, ran lots and lots of commercials telling everyone what a swell guy he was. Tough on porn and rapists. Tough on hardened criminals. Undoubtedly he was funded by out of state money. He was one of the guys on the NC Supremes who supported gerrymandering. The race was known to be a serious challenge to Republican control of the NC Supreme Court (and the Legislature is now talking about packing the court.)

Here are these votes

NC Supreme Court Judge

Morgan 2,134,821
Edmunds 1,786,011

Total 3,920,832

There are 768,320 FEWER votes cast in this one judge race than for POTUS. Is it really possible that so few Republicans didn't vote down ticket when this guy was running ads like crazy?

Morgan, the unidentified Dem (they didn't allow Dem/Repub identification on the ballot) who had no money for ads (I think I saw one the day before the election) wins by 348,810 votes over the guy who was running ads constantly! WTF?

And, in fact, Morgan gets only 28,141 fewer votes than Hillary, while the Republican--who was running ads all over TV for a month-- gets 553,974 votes less than Trump!

WTF?

You expect to see fewer total votes down ballot (straight ticket voting was eliminated by the Republicans) just because it takes time. I wouldn't expect to see such a disparity in the Republican totals, though, when there is much less disparity among the Dems. It really makes me wonder if votes were shifted from Dems to Repubs in the top three races for POTUS, Senate, and Governor--and they made their margin of error too close in the Governor's race!

When the early returns were coming in, Hillary was ahead of Trump by about 150,000 votes from the early voting period here in NC. That's a tough lead to lose based on lots of small counties voting Republican--which they usually do--but the lines were long on election day here, too.


**Edited to add:
By November, Russian hackers could target voting machines
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/07/27/by-november-russian-hackers-could-target-voting-machines/?utm_term=.c08a596f5251


If you are gonna vote, please K&R - Thank you!

79 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, I believe, with great certainty that the vote count was manipulated against us
	62 (78%)
	Yes maybe we were hacked, but most likely not
	1 (1%)
	No, we just lost,even if the voting system's integrity is not 100% sound
	7 (9%)
	No, we just lost, and the voting system's integrity is sound
	0 (0%)
	Added per request: Possible but not enough evidence or information for a conclusion
	9 (11%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[FrenchieCat]

1. Please K&R....as I think this is very important information

that needs to be read, even if you don't agree with it.
K?

[Coyotl]

100. Comparing 2004 and 2016:

Remember the good old days when exits polls were only off by 5 percent!

[KittyWampus]

2. Maybe it was. But it was up to Clinton and Obama to secure the vote.

They both failed.

And Clinton failed to even show up in the Rust Belt.

[yallerdawg]

24. Each state is responsible for the voting in their state.

Ask Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris.

[ehrnst]

82. She won the popular vote. By a margin that may reach 2 million. (nt)

[Sunlei]

85. Her margin is now bigger than the winning margins for John Kennedy and Richard Nixon.

[boston bean]

3. I think the election was meddled with by russia and comey.

What can be done about that?

[dhol82]

4. I think we are fucked no matter what the screens show

Sadly, Hillary conceded. Not sure if we can do anything else at this time but cry.

Having the Orange turd in the whitehouse is at least colorful. That's about it.

We need to gather together and fight against the miasma that is emanating from Trump Tower and soon, DC.
Just got a flash of Saruman and the eye! )

Olbermann is calling for resistance. Reich is calling for resistance.
I'm going for resistance.

[FrenchieCat]

9. True that I was surprised how fast that was....

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:57 AM - Edit history (1)

considering the difference in most of those battleground states was 1%

That was also something I will note as weird! But after the "elections are sound" routine done
a several weeks before, I'm suspecting she didn't want to start a Civil War.....
which was not an impossibility considering the Deplorable factor!

[MoonRiver]

5. It is a sickening prospect, but what to do?

Democrats have ignored this problem since 2000 when it first reared its ugly head. Many of us have been lobbying since then for this highly corruptible system to be fixed, preferably with paper ballots, all to no avail.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Many states did change their machines after 2000....

Just not nearly enough of them.....
and some have a variety of voting apparatus.

If there is a GOP state Governor, even if Democrats pols would press the issue, I don't think it would matter.
It's the people that have to demand it.

[gademocrat7]

6. K&R

[Control-Z]

7. Went aren't democrats doing anything about this?

We could at least try. We need to sue them all the way to the Supreme Court. Like they would if the tables were turned. Since when would we accept a vote that's been tampered with by the Russians and rogue FBI players?

He needs to be stopped before the electors vote. He should never be inaugurated. Never.

[FrenchieCat]

11. There are a lot of reasons why they aren't doing anything...

I suspect the biggest of all is lack of solid proof, even if they have circumstantial data....I'm sure that isn't good enough to possibly start a civil war.

[cilla4progress]

40. Seriously?

Go with a false result instead? I'm not oblivious to your point, but if that's the reason, then why give a good goddam. That is as low as it gets. The most powerful person in the world annointed based on a lie.

It's even worse than I thought.

[cilla4progress]

38. This is what I'm saying

If the NSA Director says that Russia interfered in the election, why isn't the result being thrown out?

Jezus, don't we even have the balls to do that?

I guess we deserve it, then. What a sad ending to a good idea (America).

[Control-Z]

64. No, we don't deserve it.

Most of us have no idea how to go about stopping it. I've racked my brain trying to figure who to turn to. Which institutions? Which leaders?

I think it is apparent we have a majority who would want the election overturned if asked. If I had the ability to write a decent letter I would send one to President Obama, VP Biden, Hillary, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, and my California Senators, Boxer and Feinstein. On the republican side - Lindsay Graham, at least. After those I'm out of ideas.

All I really know is we must stop Trump. And we can. It shouldn't take every voter writing a letter, either. Other than a bogus electoral college "win" there isn't one single argument for a Trump Presidency. Everyone knows he's not qualified. Everyone knows he's a liar and a cheat. Republicans know. His supporters know.

Even before the Russians admitted to it, pretty much everyone knew they were collaborating with the Trump campaign. And we all knew that the FBI, specifically James Comey, put out a big fat lie 2 weeks before the election for the sole purpose of turning people against Hillary Clinton. There does not need to be "proof" that these things changed what would have been the outcome of our election. The fact that rogue FBI operators and Russian organizations influenced the outcome is enough.

[Grey Lemercier]

101. "Which institutions? Which leaders?" Obviously it would be the Clinton campaign and the DNC.

I simply cannot believe that they are not remotely even floating trial balloons about the distinct possibility that the actual votes in key states might have been stolen/switched/disappeared.

It really makes you wonder if the entire argument of the tin foil hatters (2 sides same coin, both parties are owned at controlled at the deepest of deep state levels) has some merit.

I really am at a lose as to what we can do. Time is tight.

[oasis]

10. The whole damn thing stinks. There will be books written about it.

[FrenchieCat]

15. I do believe that it is strange on how "they" say

all of the exit polls were wrong.

and they also say all of the post election polls and predictions were wrong....

But somehow, we should trust their analysis of which demographics voted for which candidate?
Personally I don't think so. I think they are pulling it out of their ass.

If they can keep us fighting one another, they don't need to address anything.
That's what those demographic polls are all about.

I feel manipulated even now to:

be mad at White women who voted for Tramp,
be mad at Black folks who didn't show up
be mad at Hispanics who voted in a larger percentage than expected for Tramp
be mad at millennials who didn't vote
be mad at the DNC,
Be mad at 3rd party voters,
be mad at Hillary Clinton,
be mad at Bernie Sanders...
be mad at stupid White People....

But whatever we do, don't look beyond that....

I'm starting to realize how easily manipulated we are....
Sad.

[oasis]

20. Add one more to the "his" story books.

[Snarkoleptic]

12. Russian hackers surgically manipulated the results, making Karl Rove and

his merry band of miscreants look like rank amateurs.
IMHO

[ailsagirl]

17. That would not surprise me in the least

[GeorgeGist]

13. Surely our 17 federal intelligence agencies ...

are on it; as we speak.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Perhaps....

but most likely not really.

[pandr32]

29. Especially the FBI

Comey turned himself inside out trying to help Trump.

[C Moon]

51. I have a feeling FrenchieCat was being sarcastic. I doubt it as well.

[pnwmom]

69. You mean the FBI and the other agencies that helped him

by keeping his secrets while exposing hers?

[trueblue2007]

14. TRUMP IS A CROOK. Somehow the election was stolen. Will we ever know the truth?

[FrenchieCat]

21. Most likely not....

unfortunately for us and the world....
Perhaps, as well, we will be too busy fighting each other to even stop and try and fix it...
as I think we are the only ones that can demand it, but we are currently busy, many at each other's throats!

But it is what it is!

[rzemanfl]

16. K & R.

Way back somewhere in the DU archives I pointed out disparities in the 2004 vote in Pinellas County, Florida. Betty Castor got 8,000 some odd more votes than John Kerry. The explanation was that "women voted for Bush and Castor because Castor was a woman." I wasn't buying it. Never will.

[ailsagirl]

18. Yep-- that kind of garbage

I'll never buy any of it-- yet we're all stuck with the aftermath

[Lucinda]

19. KNR

[barbtries]

23. I need another option.

I believe the election very well may have been stolen. Not yet ready to categorically say that it was.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Well, I'll tell you that I don't normally wear a tin foil hat....

But the gut reaction I had at the time that all the states we needed were exactly 1% in Tramp's favor seemed...well, rather odd.

All the pre-election polls and predictions were wrong, they say.
All of the exit polls are wrong, they say.

But all of their demographic polls about who voted for who...well we should trust those 100%
far as "they" are concerned.

None of it fits as well as they are attempting to claim,
while they continue to normalize that monster!

[barbtries]

70. yes, yes.

my brother said it immediately.
it totally stinks. and it frustrates sooo much because nothing will be done. he will be president even without winning the election, and we are screwed

[LenaBaby61]

25. I'm one who still ...

Who believes that in 2004, Kenneth Blackwell was up to no good in Ohio, because Bush ended up winning in what I read was phantom counties where the vote he won exceeded the number of people living in a few particular counties. Missouri was a mess also in terms of precincts voting in 2001 and 2004's GE. I know about Gore in 2000, but there were a multiple of things in that Perfect Storm GE loss scenario: The Supreme Court intervention, Gore not winning NH which would have made Florida a moot point. Katherine Harris & Jeb Bush and all of their shenanigans there, & Bush Family shenanigans in general. Voters voting for Nadar, voters voting for Gore and those votes went to Pat Buchanan IIRC. In fact, the scary thing is that exit polls showed Kerry with leads in several states he thought he would win, and polling data, although not as sophisticated as it is now, had him ahead in several states he lost--just as Hillary was thought to have been ahead in several states she barely lost this year, and we cannot for one minute take for granted what foreign shenanigans the Russians pulled off where it concerns our GE this year, because of course they want that dumb as a block puppet in the Oval Office instead of Bernie and especially Hillary because neither would have been kissing Putin's ass like tRump's gonna be doing.

[FrenchieCat]

27. And then of course DU went down.....for an entire week!

That struck me odd as well....
as this is where we would have been all over "Odd" occurrences as they were happening....
but we didn't get to do that!

[pandr32]

31. It was to keep us from being able to coalesce

We would not hear of problems as they happened and send out help. People were searching online for info, but it was spotty and hard to verify. DU being down cut Dems off at the knees.

[FrenchieCat]

33. I certainly needed it....especially to read the analysis of the returns as it was happening

County by county. Things that were OFF could have been spotted more easily....
and discussed prior to a week going by! Yes, it hurt us Dems! I agree.

[chimpymustgo]

104. I have felt from the start the DU hack was part of a multi-prong attack on the election. What can

can do?

We know exactly how they operate.

Here's another link.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/17/russia_hackers_election_trump.php

[Liberty Belle]

109. Yes that was my first thought too when I heard DU was hacked.

they did not want evidence of all the voting irregularities to be posted here.

Perhaps someone should start a thread for DUers to report all the voting irregularities they observed or learned of through reliable and verifiable sources.

[cilla4progress]

41. I'm 100%

with you. Going back to '00 and '04.

Can't believe this is allowed to go on. Very close to giving up and pulling up the drawbridge here.

[BootinUp]

28. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan. nt

[bigmonkey]

92. The real struggle, then ..

is who gets to decide a claim is extraordinary. Your post implies it would be people who think as you do.

[Bobbie Jo]

30. I am absolutely convinced

We were robbed.

[Lil Missy]

32. No options for: Possible, with no further comment. or Not Enough Information.

[FrenchieCat]

35. Ok....I did that

[Lil Missy]

39. Thank you!

[ericson00]

34. can we not become like Freepers and Breitbart types...people who make up their own facts

outside of reality bc they can't accept it? Is like how they spread lies that Trump was actually winning the popular vote, which he's not.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Can we not tell other people what to do and how to think,

cause that's not our job?

[LenaBaby61]

42. I hear what you're saying ....

But there are just TOO many "odd" coincidences that happened during this particular GE to ME that lead me to think about that old adage: Where there is some smoke, there is fire.

You had WikiLeaks, and Assange--who calls himself a whistle blower--got himself involved in our GE in a big way by ONLY releasing information that did no whistle blowing on tRump but all of the so-called whistle-blowing on the Dems/Hillary, although I KNOW there is a boat load of info out there on him, why wasn't the self-described whistle-blower Assange releasing any of that info on tRump? You had tRump practically telling the Russian's to hack Hillary. You had tRump continually trotting out the meme that if he lost the election, it was hacked or rigged, and you have some "odd" and not so "odd" cases of voter suppression going on, and you had FBI head James Comey releasing a very damaging statement about Hillary which did enough damage to Hillary Clinton and to the FBI that did affect her enough in the GE outcome. I'm can't say for sure, but I feel he will stay on as FBI Director under tRump.

[Hekate]

36. KnR, FrenchieCat

Gods help us all

[lonestarnot]

43. I'll never believe anything else.

[mountain grammy]

44. I completely agree..

Trump set us up. The election was rigged. Only true thing the son of a bitch ever said.

[MontanaMama]

45. Why even try anymore?

I'm so frustrated and sad. Let them take the ship down. Dems in congress seem complicit in their inaction.

[MADem]

46. Soft coup--screwing with the numbers within the MOE. nt

[FrenchieCat]

49. Agree....

Definitely a coup....
with various players involved....

Including some CEOs of the Multinationals Corporations who own the Corporate Media...
They must have been promised some big ass Corporate and personal Tax Cuts!

[dflprincess]

47. Greg Palast has been talking about this.

http://www.gregpalast.com/

Of course, he's been a voice crying in the wilderness since 2000. It would also be nice if this time the Democrats didn't just roll over but stood up and fought.

[alittlelark]

48. KnR.....

[burrowowl]

50. K&R!!!!!!

[radical noodle]

52. K&R

We know something was going on. The Russians, WikiLeaks, and the FBI for sure interfered. Why not vote counts in critical states? I wonder if certain states were more vulnerable than others? All Republican held states that she was thought to be winning should be checked.

[UCmeNdc]

53. K&R

[BadGimp]

54. Thank you for this excellent post!

[lunamagica]

55. K&R

[Ellipsis]

56. Merci beaucoup

[FailureToCommunicate]

57. True or not, your research to back it up is impressive!

[smirkymonkey]

58. K&R

[madamesilverspurs]

59. Scariest thing, for me anyway,

is the utter silence from the FEC, especially in light of Russia's claims of working with the Trump campaign after the news had come out that they had in fact hacked the DNC. FEC's silence is screaming for attention. Maybe we're just supposed to be grateful that the FEC doesn't run the fire department, eh?


.

[liberalla]

60. Well i've been feeling that for a week and yes, my gut is pretty reliable...

but i want a definitive answer. We need an investigation, by someone we can trust.

Thank you FrencieCat for all your work on this! Great job!

[PinkTiger]

61. Kick

I agree

[ProudProgressiveNow]

62. K&R nt

[Liberty Belle]

63. Greg Palast says it WAS stolen and here's how:

Crosscheck software wrongly knocked 7.2 million mostly minorities off the voting rolls by falsely claiming they voted twice in different locations, even with different middle names. In key swing states, Trump's "win" was far less than the number of voters disenfranchised that way. The architect of Crosscheck is Kris Kobach, a racist attorney for an anti-immigrant hate group. Trump has appointed Kobach to head his immigration transition team:

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/election-was-stolen-%E2%80%93-here%E2%80%99s-how

This of course was just one of several methods used to steal votes. There may have been actual electronic hacking by Russia or GOP operatives. We know that voter ID laws kept many away from the polls especially in Georgia where they closed DMVs in black neighborhoods. The list is endless. Dems should be suing. Would Clinton have won without the cheating? Probably yes.

[FrenchieCat]

65. Thank you for the additional information!

[sherlocksistah]

90. that was my gut feeling from the get go!

she would have won had the Ruskies not interfered massively as they did through wikileaks, et al. It was a coup!!

[R B Garr]

66. K&R and bookmarked to go over later.

Great thread/info! Thanks Frenchie. Donald's insistence of a rigged election sure made him suspicious. Very thin margins, stricter voter ID laws, hmmm.

[Bear Creek]

67. Nothing Done

The law suit during the Bush Administration had a gag order put on the result. The Republican programmer just happened to die in an air plane crash prior to when he was supposed to testify to congress. Nothing was done about the machines. Obama was president but never had enough democrats in the senate or house? The result this time is overboard. Just a couple democrats they have to keep it so maybe it is not rigged. I was told every time that the democrats just need to get the voters out. The FBI made sure the polls were close then they force the vote on the machines. Remember the email from the owner of diebold to Bush saying he had assured him a win. Triad the subsidiary of Dibold got caught changing the votes on the machines.

[kebob]

68. Something Strange?

No; something hijacked, plain and simple.

[Stuart G]

71. k and r...nt

[tavernier]

72. Excellent research, thanks!! My only

devil's advocate argument here would be, why aren't the people who have the means to expose this banging the drums? The president, the federal watchdogs (surely there are a few honest men who are sworn to serve and protect), the folks in congress whose jobs depend on insuring honest elections?

They all have better connections, better info, greater means to find answers to all of these questions.

Wouldn't they already have done so?

I'm not saying we are wrong in our suspicions. I'm just very certain that the POTUS and VPOTUS would have been on it in a very forceful way from day one.

And maybe they are?

[ShakeWell]

103. I question this too

The whole country would be up in arms if the roles were reversed. The gop and media would be chalk full of scary talking points and headlines like: "Does HRC deserve the presidency???" "HRC won the electoral but Trump is dominating the popular vote by the largest margin since...." /graphics /darkscarymusic

Yet, with all of this evidence, people who seemly could do something are not doing anything about what appears to be glaring inconsistencies in our electoral process. Very frustrating.

[Overseas]

110. DT knew if he cried Rigged Rigged beforehand & got Dems to denounce that, they couldn't cry the same

Trump calling out elections were rigged & he wouldn't accept the results could have been designed to elicit the response he got-- great condemnation of him for refusing to accept the results.

So how could those who roundly condemned him then go on to challenge the results?

Had more of our Democrats and corporate media dared to cover Interstate Crosscheck and the other examples of how easily our systems could be hacked, they might have the courage to speak out after the election.

[LP2K12]

73. Possible?

Yes.

Do I believe it happened?

No.

Do I believe people fell hard for the bull Trump was selling?

Yes.

[wisteria]

74. The exit polls were wrong on Kerry also, and there were issues in Ohio.

I feel there is enough evidence to question and further review the results. However, you know, the very idea will be shot down and denounced as sour grapes and sore losers.

[Mc Mike]

75. TPM showed a brexit style flip in candidate victory odds, 9:30 pm, election night.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/brexit--2

Now the media is trying to explain the surpise flip of 5 states, all in the orange bald nazi's favor. So they're giving us extremely unlikely particulars to make it seem "sensible". Over a quarter of Hispanics voted for him. Over half of White Women voted for him, 13 % of Black Men voted for him, etc. Statements of ''fact'' that are palpably bull shit.

The electronic vote counting systems are so insecure, at so many points in the process, that it is sickening.

Ken Blackwell diverted Ohio's statewide vote tallying to a private company, owned by repugs, in Chattanooga TN, on election night in '04. The company (SMARTech / Gov Tech) hosted private repug websites, (including the private e-mail servers that 'lost' millions of Congressionally subpoenaed bush admin e-mails between Rove and Gonzales, pertaining to the scandalous firings of 9 US Attorney Generals.) As a result of Blackwell and SMARTech's work, Ohio decided the election in favor of li'l bush, so he 'won' the national election in '04. Blackwell's now working for the dRumpf transition team.

That's at the state level, where all different counties' tabulated results are fed in, to get overall state results. One step lower, all the different district/precinct results for each county are fed into a central county tabulator. The tabulator has code that can be manipulated remotely, or using a thumb drive, or using the tabulator's own terminal. A convicted computer hacker felon named Jeff Dean wrote the code used by 99% of the county central tabulators in the country, used by 4 different voting machine vendors. Jeff Dean is a convicted felon, whose convictions stem from computer hacking into banks. He was an employee of Egil Bud Krogh, the convicted repug party Nixon admin watergate felon who ran the "plumbers unit". Krogh was an Erlichman aide who employed repug operatives G. Gordon Liddy and E. Howard Hunt to manipulate the '72 elections. The candidate who "won" in 2016 employed repug party Watergate criminals Roger Stone and Paul Manafort.

One step lower, at the district/precinct level, there's a possibility the vote counts can be flipped and switched before they go off to the county's central tabulator. I was a poll worker for the county, the majority inspector of elections, in the district next to mine in the 19th Ward, for 5 elections over a 3 year period. During the '07 General Election, the County's elections manager ordered computer techs to go to the different precincts and use the ES&S Ivotronic voting machines' Master PEB Cartridges to "check the voltage", 2 hours before the polls closed. Both District 3 and District 4's machines were accessed by the county tech. (I still have his business card.) Both districts have a strong Dem voter registration advantage, and both usually record a strong preference for the Dem candidate during every election. But in the '07 final election, both recorded a preference for the repug candidate for Mayor.

After seeing this happen, when I was trained for the '08 General (Final) Election, I asked the County elections expert trainer if we should allow county techs to access our machines, using the Master PEB Cart, near the end of the voting day, if the machines are obviously not having any problems. Boy, did they get unhappy and hot in a hurry.

It was a simple question, I didn't ask it in a snotty manner. But they first tried to say maybe I wasn't even allowed to work inside the polls -- since I was a 19th Ward Dem committeeman, there might be some sort of vague unspecified conflict. I said "Oh, all right" and started to leave the training site, and they said "No, no, we want you to work." (The job is long hours, sucky pay, and they can't get enough personnel to work their polls.) Then when I got home, (it was a Saturday) I had an extremely irate message on my phone from one of the wiseguys who control county elections. I called him back, and he was real mad and agro, asking me several stupid and aggressive questions when all he had to do was tell me my services weren't needed to work the polls. Then on election day, my district had a ton of unusual problems, though the 4 previous elections I worked had gone smoothly. So I dealt with the problems, and wrote all the irregularities down. O'Brien and Flynn from the county didn't send anyone to check our voltage. My speculation is that there was a backdoor to the Ivotronics program, where Check Voltage = Flip Tallied Votes, switch candidate preference totals. And I'd like to point out that the current 2016 'victor' definitely received the wiseguy vote.

The bottom step, in terms of possible vote count security flaws, is the actions of the actual poll workers. In the past, audits of machine results have shown manipulation, where there was a long run of voters who voted for repugs, then several who voted for dems, then another long run of voters who voted for repugs. In this 2016 final election, I worked for Election Protection, at Ward 30, District 1 and 4, a few miles away from my home District. I stayed after the polls finished up and posted their final results tapes outside the polling place, around 8:15 pm. They recorded 60% turn out. Then I went to my voting precinct to see my poll's results. Ward 19, District 28's personnel were still busy inside the polling place, there wasn't a crowd of voters inside, as I could see through the slit windows. I didn't have a county poll watcher's certificate, so couldn't go inside the locked polling location. I waited outside for a half hour, then gave up and went home. I wound up going to see the posted results at 5:30 am the next day, then looking them up on the county website.

My precinct recorded an 81% turn out, 10 to 20 % higher than the 19,4 and 19,3 polls I worked in the past, the 19,1 poll that I voted in for 2 decades, and the 30,1 and 4 districts I just got done 'protecting'. And 31% of the votes in this Dem stronghold poll were for dRUmpf, while only 14 and 19 % backed him in the 2 Ward 30 districts I worked at.

So, I don't allege any felony election fraud was committed by the poll workers in 19, 28. But it would be easy enough to verify, by looking at audited machine results, the district register, the signed voter cards. I'm on the record, with the Ward 30 Chair, with the 30, 1 Dem committeman, with the former Ward 19 chair I served under (2 of whose relatives served in statewide offices), with the 5 election protection lawyers and observers I interacted with, with 3 of my Dem party-backing union officials, with the 2 official poll watchers from the Democratic Party. Every statement I made can be easily verified, all those local Dem honchos know who and what I am and what I did. I'm willing to swear an oath and sign a deposition about all the particulars I related above.

The issue is this: There are a lot of dem bigshots and honchos around this site. BUT, there is a disconnect between the 'important' dems who post here, and the dems who are 'important' in the physical area I live in, in Western PA, which is in one of the states that improbably 'flipped'. As usual, after I put in work on an election, all the area's bigshots immediately stop communicating with me, until they need me again in 2 or 4 years. The official campaigns fold up and disappear, the Dem-backing labor elements go back to not communicating with rank and filers like me, the Dem party local officials go back to whatever they're usually doing, the massive Election Protection coalition's groups of activist lawyers, social justice orgs, civil rights orgs, labor orgs go back to their standard radio silence. There will be no after-action report issued, there will be no post election meeting to offer a post mortem analysis.

It sure would be easy to verify that everything was above board in my Dem stronghold voting district. But while I have the will, I lack the authority, credentials, portfolio, or support to do so.

Of course, I'm willing to entertain any suggestions from this site's Dem bigshots.

[mnhtnbb]

76. I'm the person who posted the curious NC results which FrenchieCat reposted.

It's interesting to see the table displaying the exit poll results compared to the vote results.

My husband and I were talking about how it would only take hacking a handful of states-- FL, NC, PA, OH, MI--for instance
and the election results are changed. You don't have to hack every state. Is that doable? I would think so. Was it done?
I have no idea.

I do know that many, many voters were purged from the voting rolls. I also know that our most populated Dem county in NC--Durham County--
had laptop problems on the morning of the election and had to go to the hard copy poll books to verify voter registrations in some precincts.
That's the focus now where McCrory (Repub governor) is disputing the vote totals since he has lost to Cooper (Dem candidate and our current AG)
by less than 5,000 votes and it was when those votes came in quite late from the Durham precincts that McCrory's 40 some thousand lead was erased.

Hanky panky? Possibly the Republican hanky panky wasn't sufficient to give McCrory the win even though Republicans controlled the election process.

[FrenchieCat]

102. Thank your for the comment that I had read in another post....

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

It was insightful and I felt needed to be included! I appreciate you!

[Stuart G]

77. kick

[Gin]

78. Kick

[get the red out]

79. I felt that way during the election returns

And early on too.

[panader0]

80. K and R

[heaven05]

81. I always figured

the hand of Rove was in this somewhere. So your premise is probably true. A finish to the coup started in 2000. Yeah, yeah I know but....but....Obama. Doesn't make a difference now. His legacy will be besmirched everywhere, except in my mind, the repulicanNazi Party will spin his achievement and glorify their obstructionism. We are done as a free democracy. My call and I really don't care(preemptively)about the naysayers on this one. Have a good life DUers.

[byronius]

83. Motive, opportunity, willingness.

Conservatives tend to be pirates. It's a personality trait shared all along the right political spectrum -- every righty I know is proud to steal music, cable, to force deals on others by what I would consider to be socially unacceptable behavior.

It's their primate signature. That and poop-throwing.

[Sunlei]

84. what bothered me the most was the 90,000 detroit ballots where president choice was left blank.

everything else was filled out on ballots but machines didn't read ANY president vote.

The entire population
Detroit/Population
688,701 (2013)

IMO, 90,000 is an extraordinary amount of blank ballots.

[LP2K12]

86. I know...

At least 13 people who live near me (Detroit area) who left the president choice blank.

[Sunlei]

87. could have been a trend of 'protest non-vote', however the 90k number was way to high, IMO

[ShakeWell]

88. K&R x1000

Thanks for putting this list together, all of this needs more attention.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

89. Look at the people Trump has with him. There is a dearth honestly and respect for fairness,

even the law, in that group.

[Chimichurri]

91. K&r

[Raastan]

93. K & R

[Fla Dem]

94. Not surprising that 3 of those 4 states have Republican governors.

We know there were shenanigans with Florida in the Gore / Bush election. Would not doubt for a minute there was some fixing of election totals by the Republican administrations of NC, Fl and Wi. Michigan is another one where the Governor is a Republican. Those 4 states HRC hould have won.

Additionally, while many are discounting any Russian hacking of the US election systems because it's to diverse; different states use different machines, systems, etc. If they just focused on these 5 states, Fl, NC, Wi, Pa, and Mi they could totally throw the election and do you really think the governors of those states would do anything about it? If hackers could hack the IRS, the US Dept of Justice, HHS, The White House, DOD, UC Berkley, Cisco, Sony, JP Morgan and many more, do you really think they couldn't get into the pretty rudimentary election systems of those states? I don't doubt it for a minute.

[GoCubsGo]

95. Other: It was the tip of the ice berg.

I would not be surprised if hacking occurred. But, these are all states where great efforts were made to suppress the Democratic vote. THAT made things close enough that they could get away with screwing around with the results.

[nolabels]

96. Okay then, was D.U hacked?

Oh, that's right, Elad just goofed up a little

No matter what you can say, what we are living in this country or however you describe it, it is not a democracy. Any reference to such terms should be corrected.

What the fuck do i have to lose if i believe it or not anyway, I have been living in and with this charade all my life. I have done enough watching and investigation (very much thanks to this website)to know the day we lost our country was many years ago.
It was the day they had JFK murdered, everything after that has just been an afterthought.

So what does matter how they did it? If you need someone to blame, blame your parents for your birth and putting you here. Other than that if we grow up and realize what we are up against and stop underestimating it then things can be more straightforward and easier to recognize. Knowing the small details won't help anyone if we are getting hit by a tsunami.

I don't feel surprised or cheated, it all just seems par for course. To me it seems how everyone responds is going to be more important in the long run.

[Lindsea]

97. My husband is so tired of me saying, "There's something wrong"

I've been thinking something was wrong since I stopped crying on election night. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like we are being set up by someone who really wants nothing to do with the Presidency. He doesn't give a damn about us, he thinks this is a game show. Just my thoughts without the theory I have.

I haven't been anywhere with this thought because it takes a Derby size tinfoil hat.

Russia. There have been comments about Russia and the election, just little ones, but they add up to something rather scary. I'm hoping that "The Government", I don't know who, some secret bureau that exists or was made for this. They bust Trump and his crew before inaugural day for treason and we get Hillary.

Told you it takes a big tinfoil hat. A person can dream.

[ShakeWell]

106. I'm with you

There is something wrong and we knew it in 2000 and paid the price for not standing up. Except this time it won't be years before we find out, it'll be two days after he's sworn in ... "In other news, HRC actually won. Now for the weather..."

[PADemD]

98. Our PA county is a bellweather for the state.

At a local farm show in August, the Trump signs were flying off the shelf at the Republican table. Only one person asked for a Hillary sign at our table; and we didn't have any to give. The campaign rationale was yard signs don't vote, people vote. Well, the people who displayed a Trump yard sign voted.

There were Trump/Pence and Deplorables for Trump signs everywhere. I did not see one Hillary/Kaine sign until election day, and that was at the polls.

Here is a summary of our county:

http://www.northamptoncounty.org/northampton/lib/northampton/northamptonvote/sum.pdf

Our county voted Republican up and down the ticket on election day.

[Fla Dem]

108. I had a Clinton/Kaine sign and was afraid to put it in my front yard.

I put it in a front window and was nervous about that. I also had a Hillary For America sticker on my car, and whenever I got in my car in a parking lot I'd check to see whether or not it had been keyed. I think a lot of people, particularly those living in red counties didn't think it was safe displaying their choice.

[world wide wally]

99. So what can we do about it?

Are we just impotent and helpless?
It sure feels that way

[ms liberty]

105. I agree. K&R, n/t

[FrenchieCat]

107. Thus far an overwhelming majority believes

that the vote count in this election were rigged! It's good that only gold star members could vote...since I would presume that the folks who don't want us to be discussing it probably don't have those stars, or not enough of them anyways!

I took a screenshot, so that the poll isn't freeped once the doors open again to the general public!


We need to organize a movement to:

Investigate the vote count in various counties in these battleground states...especially those who were Obama wins in 2012.

Then we need a movement in each state to demand that our voting system be made rig proof, whatever that would take! I've spoken to many on Twitter, FB and in person, and please know that the majority here is not alone. People may not want to believe it, or feel like others will consider them strange if they mention it....so we all need to be discussing this issue with our friends and families, and I bet that many will find that their suspicion that this election was rigged is not an isolated one of only delusional people that don't want to accept the results. I'm normal, and I know that you are too....so it isn't us, it's what went down that need to be looked into!

we need to protest this shit, and protest the corporate broadcast media too! We need to protest that this was a coup!

[Overseas]

111. K&R. Sad we don't have the courage to admit the faults in our elections.

We discover these things like Interstate Crosscheck and the hackability of our electronic voting but we haven't changed them.

I think the basic issue of allowing Secretaries of State to be partisan positions already corrupts our elections.

Partisan SOS reducing polling places in Democratic areas is already rigging elections. Very low tech manipulation. You have to be super dedicated to brave lines that take hours to get through.

[FrenchieCat]

112. Agreed!