I will tell why we were all wrong.

[boston bean]

Because no caring human being could imagine that an out in the open racist misogynist xenophobic homophobic piece of shit could ever be elected in 2016 to the office of the presidency. Also a man who had so little in a provable way respect for the constitution.

But it appears that the woman was the worse candidate. Go figure. You know the woman who dedicated her entire life to public service but had a private email server.

[LisaM]

1. Yes, for running while female.

(I didn't make that up, but I like it).

[ErikJ]

36. Elizabeth Warren would have CREAMED Trump

Its not sexism its CHARISMA. Hill doesnt have it. Bill does not her.

[INdemo]

43. Has anyone said this yet..

Bernie Sanders would be President elect now if DWS and the DNC would not have pulled all of their shenanigans,starting with the Iowa recount of which Bernie was winning but was stopped.

We mow know that DWS did in fact work against Bernie as did other DNC personnel including the current interim DNC chair Donna Brazile

I just did.
Hillary was ill advised by her team and a Major mistake the Clinton campaign made was to start campaigning for the down ballot candidates which show a bit of overconfidence on her part when she should have spent more time in the rust-belt of PA,Ohio,and listened to the Unions and other blue collar concerns.
That cost her dearly.

[ErikJ]

46. BOTTOM LINE: Hillary admitted herself "I'm not good at this"

Why the HELL r you running then Hillary??

We need somebody that has charisma and can hit on all 8 cylinders. Not a Lesser of "2 evils candidate" bureaucrat.

[INdemo]

53. Hillary is not Bill and Bill has actually lost it

now Michelle Obama..well now she could win the hearts everyone on the left side and the Reich side would fear her greatly.

[ErikJ]

57. Sorry, Not sure what youre saying.

Could u rephrase that?

[INdemo]

88. Hillary Clinton is not the campaigner that Bill was

and Bill Clinton was/is not the campaigner he once was or thought he was during Hillary's campaign.
He actually hurt her in many ways
When Bill Clinton made a speech about how bad Bernie Sanders was,how flawed his campaign was and idiotic his Healthcare plan was I lost all respect for him standing there lying about Bernie Sanders.This was something I would have expected from a Reichwinger but not Bill Clinton.

[duffyduff]

60. None of this Hillary trashing is true about this election.

Wake up and smell the coffee about what happened here.

[ErikJ]

69. I am. Hillary was UNINSPIRING. Period.

And she was damaged goods from 3 decades of Republican relentless attacks ever since she proposed Hillarycare and the SCHIP health care program for kids. Gingrish declared war on her for 30 yrs.
UNINSPIRING + DAMAGED GOODS = defeat.

[LisaM]

70. Speak for yourself.

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:33 AM - Edit history (1)

I could not disagree more.

[ErikJ]

72. Fact: Hillary targeted for 30 yrs by GOP.

They were just waiting to rip into her for the past 30 years. Then silly Benghazi and emails made it worse. They r masters of propaganda like Hitler's Goebbels.

FACT: Hillary admitted herself she wasnt to good at this in one of her speeches. That should have disqualified her right there.

FACT: She was in bed with Big Banks and was lukewarm on everything that progs wanted to see. She promised Bernie but Hill isnt known for her honesty.

Conclusion : Terrible candidate.

[NastyRiffraff]

109. Political candidates don't exist to inspire you

Period. If you want to be entertained, go to a circus.

[ErikJ]

121. Tell that to almost all of our presidents who usually had tons of energy, sincerity and magnetism

FDR, Truman, Eisenhower (WW2 hero), JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Carter. Reagan, Bill Clinton, Obama.

Bush is an exception but they did say he was a guy who theyd like to have a beer with. WHatever that means. But now most Conservatives hate Bush. Wont admit voting for him. lol

[DemonGoddess]

115. Of course she is uninspiring to you

you're a man, what the fuck do YOU have to lose?

[ErikJ]

120. I wouldve LOVED Warren to run.

I think she wouldve won. She's got sincerity and magnetism for her ideas. NOTHING wishy washy about Elizabeth.

[pnwmom]

142. Yup. You would have loved the woman with NO AMBITION for the Presidency to have run.

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Because women with high ambition are so unappealing.

[NastyRiffraff]

145. Bingo!

I see that misogyny still exists on DU. Any minute now we'll hear "shrill."

[lunamagica]

101. You do know that more people voted for her than for trump?

[hueymahl]

127. Yes, but not in the states where it mattered. NT

[pnwmom]

146. Yeah, people in red states count more than people in blue states, so Hillary's voters

apparently don't matter.

[hueymahl]

148. Her problem was she lost the blue states

No excuse to lose Michigan and Pennsylvania

[pnwmom]

149. I don't believe she lost Pennsylvania, actually. But we'll never know

because they use paperless machines that can never be audited.

Michigan we lost due to voter suppression. Many more people were knocked off the rolls than the tiny difference between Hillary and DT.

[hueymahl]

150. Respectfully, that is tinfoil hat thinking

I prefer to deal with reality. It should never have been close. Her message did not resonate with enough voters and she didn't have the charisma to overcome that. It is really that simple.

[Fast Walker 52]

113. Iowa didn't matter, didn't change anything in the primary

The DNC only slightly worked against Bernie once it was clear Hillary was going to be odds-on the nominee-- they were protecting her from needless.

Hillary lost for many reasons, some fair and many massively unfair. Oddly, if she was the monster so many thought she was, she would have won.

[zonkers]

143. I did. My thread was alerted and locked in 45 seconds.

A day ago. I mhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/12512610517

[pnwmom]

147. The emails purporting to show the DNC helping Hillary were written in late April and early May,

when it was mathematically impossible for Bernie to earn enough pledged delegates to win. He stayed on in the vain hope of having superdelegates overturn the will of the voters. The DNC was just trying to figure out how to help Hilary -- the candidate the pledged delegates were bound to support -- even though Bernie was stubbornly hanging on till the convention.

What cost Hillary the most support was James Comey suddenly putting his fist on the scale in the last days of the campaign, leaving Hillary no time to recover. That was despicable and unprecedented.

[duffyduff]

59. She'd have been slaughtered.

You don't understand this election AT ALL.

[frazzled]

98. Totally agree

The inevitable influx here of what I like to call the empty slaters (those who like to project their narrow ideological wish lists onto totally unproven, mythical candidates) still don't get it. At all.

They're still stuck in their petulant railing against the establishment, just like the Trumpers. They still think an Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders could've won this. The only reason I can think of is that they completely disregard the interests of voters from the African American and Latino communities, who have no truck with the kind of populist economic bombast that comprises the appeal of these mythical candidates. They still like to talk about rigged systems, just like the Trumpers. They still want to emulate the Trumpesque name-calling and bogey-man fear mongering of the right, just with "bankers" substituted for "Hispanics."

There's a kind of sad and, frankly, offensive narcissism to it all. I've had it with this kind of illiberal trash talk.

More than a million and counting (it's expected to end up around 2 million) more of the PEOPLE voted for Hillary Clinton. That they were congregated into the nation's urban and coastal areas rather than Nebraska made their votes count for less, because of our electoral system. And oh yeah, all those self-important empty slaters who could not bring themselves to vote for "crooked" Hillary and either abstained or voted for a third party: they are responsible for this debacle.

[mcar]

122. Thank you

I'm offended to see this kind of talk on DU (but not surprised). Some people just want to run down our candidates and even our wonderful president.

[zonkers]

144. Slaughtered.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. NO. QUESTION. ABOUT. THIS.

[pnwmom]

141. Utter crap.

The sexism would have been her downfall, too. There were even more complaints about her 'shrill" voice than about Hillary's.

The left assumes that EW's appeals to reason would have the same affect on the independent low-info voter that it does on the progressive left. Wrong. She wouldn't have charisma for that group of people. She would be portrayed as yet another elitist, academic Dem who wanted to raise their taxes. And a woman, to boot.

[mcar]

2. So much sexism

People try to say x, y or z but the end result was sexism.

[SharonAnn]

83. Our own unenthusiastic Dems didn't help. "I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary"

I made a few friends angry by telling them to stop saying this. We had some moderate gop friends and we should've been saying positive and encouraging things instead of letting them think that we thought h was a bad candidate.

And sexism, oh my goodness yes. Some of it was overt but much of it was not. I was shocked by it, both from Dems and Republicans. Seems like nothing has changed in the last 50 years that i've been politically active.

She is a truly exceptional candidate. I wanted her competence. And people who are look for a TV star instead of a competent president have got what they wanted. Unfortunately, that's what the rest of us got, too.

For the first time in a long, long time I'm truly and deeply frightened. Frightened about the damage he can do to our democracy, about the damage he can do to world stability, and about the safety of individuals and the country.

I'm truly frightened, and I don't scare easily.

[MelissaB]

3. I'll say this again... it had nothing to do with her being a woman.

I voted for Bernie in the primary and her in the general, but neither vote had anything to do with sex. It had everything to do with her being a DLC/Corporate Dem with ties to Wall Street, her war vote (yeah, I remembered), and support for NAFTA, the TPP, etc.

[boston bean]

4. Thanks for the vote. U were smarter than some. But ur answer here doesnt

Really adress the first part of the equation.

Good for u that ur vote was pure in ur view.

[MelissaB]

5. You want me explain how someone could vote for Donald

over Hillary?

My vote was "pure" in my view? I don't even know what you mean by that.

[boston bean]

11. You have been explaining it to me.

[R B Garr]

17. This is truly self-serving claptrap. Gore was thrown under the bus by the

same third party type voters. He was not pure enough either.

And if you continue to present only pro Bernie talking points, then you are way off base. You can't pick only pro Bernie talking points for your blame game. If the economy policies are your emphasis, then you can't deny that Obamacare and the rate increases could have attracted voters to come out against it. That puts to bed your claim that people would be happy to vote for even more costly social policies. No way could Bernie have overcome that mindset.

[bettyellen]

37. Exactly- these voters hate "tax and spend" Dems and he is the biggest one around.

[Lil Missy]

71. Yep - there was definately a "Nader effect" contributing to this loss.

I had no sympathy or patience for 3rd Party voters before this happened. Now I have nothing but contempt for them.

As for what that means for DU - I am very happy to learn that Admins have had a change of heart about who is welcome here and who isn't. The bottom line is - a vote 3rd Party was a vote for Trump. They are part of the problem and don't belong here.

IMHO.

[SMC22307]

45. A-fucking-men to that.

The vast majority of DU won't accept it, but she didn't lose the Rust Belt b/c she's a woman. Jesus, people.

[stolnepounder]

51. I pretty much agree with you.

Yes, being a woman made it harder. But the main reasons she lost were a) the GOP spin machine has been waging a non-stop war against the Clintons for over 30 years now. There are many, many people (Trump included) who are absolutely convinced that she and Bill are criminals guilty of multiple crimes, including murder, corruption, malfeasance in office, leaking secrets to Russia, issuing a 'stand-down' order to troops who could have saved Chris Stevens, and on and on. b) Trump supporters live in an alternate reality, c) they believe that Trump can 'make America Great Again' even though they don't know what that means. And d) it is a backlash about having a black man in the White House for eight years.

[mountain grammy]

64. On that, I could never agree.

I also voted for Bernie in our caucus, but the general was everything to do with her being a woman, and I mean everything. Racism, sexism and ignorance won this election.

[closeupready]

118. Me, too, on all points, every single point.

[Lucinda]

6. Yep. It was shocking to see that so many would vote for him. She won the most votes, but

it really shouldn't have even been close.

I've seen people who voted for him excuse away all his flaws by saying that Trump "doesn't really mean" the things he said. Unless it was something they cared about, then he was speaking the truth!

[manicraven]

76. I know, right! "He tells it like it is." "He doesn't really mean that."

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

132. He tells it like it is

IE he says all the racist sexist shit they want to hear.

[napi21]

7. I've been thinking about this ince the votes were counted. I think I finally accepted two reasons.

The MAIN reason is too many people who lost their job due to outsourcing, and they BELIEVED the CON when he said he would bring their jobs back.

The second reason is way too many people are disgusted with the way our elected officials have been doing things, or NOT DOING THEM! They saw the Con as being completely out of politics so they decided HE would change things. They might not like the change they get, but they felt out of options.

It's sad that so many believe he will do all those things he promised.

[MyOwnPeace]

9. Oh, hell...............

half of those idiots still believe in the tooth fairy!

[mountain grammy]

61. Nope, not buying it..

White fear and ignorance elected Donald Trump.

[Ligyron]

103. Yeah, but if that is truly the case then we'll never win another election.

White fear and ignorance did contribute, but we better figure a way around this problem.

Quick.

[mountain grammy]

104. right now, I'm not optimistic that we will

I'm not optimistic at all. America has left us and the minority is in charge.

[Ligyron]

106. It will be bad for at least a couple years for us.

Fortunately, it will be bad or worse for the ones who put him in office, I think.

I have some hope that he's not as conservative on some social issues as he pretends to be.

It's the GOP being in charge that's the worst part and we need to fight them every step of the way.

Block, delay, filibuster, stall and organize for 2018. Educate.

I was saying we need to be out in front of every social security office, welfare office, etc. registering voters and putting out a friendly, populist Democratic message in simple terms and we need to be doing this in red states. Colorado is fairly safe for instance, but to the eastern part and places like it - we need a presence.

[manicraven]

77. I think that's a part of it. If we listen to what they would tell

journalists when asked, they'd often say things like that. They wanted an outsider to shake things up (clean the swamp), and they wanted manufacturing jobs back, and no more "bad" trade deals either. But, I also think many wanted revenge for 8 years of a black President. I know others who wanted control over Muslim immigration, and they really didn't understand the lengthy vetting process already in place. Others wanted to control Supreme Court openings. Meanwhile, the media relentlessly hammered on about e-mails.

Trump, however, will be disappointing his supporters the most. For one thing, his attempt at draining the swamp is laughable.

[MrScorpio]

8. Basically, so few of us could realize how fucked up America really is...

Consider it a wake up call.

[boston bean]

10. Pretty much. I am on the outs with family over this

I cannot ever imagine any reason to vote for such a disgusting racist etc.

What they did was a personal affront. It wasnt a political difference. It was personal.

[SHRED]

13. Many of us are dealing with this

We very well could lose our access to healthcare and it's tough facing family over this.

[manicraven]

79. Me, too. Much of my family here in a blue state voted for Trump.

[manicraven]

78. Yes! I still feel gobsmacked.

Low-information voters who happen to be racists, too. And, there's a whole lot of them!

[ErikJ]

12. Trump generated excitement, Hillary not so much

Charisma is an important part no matter the message. Hillary just doesnt seem to have it like Obama, Bill C, Bernie or Trump.

[boston bean]

14. By the time it is done it is estimated hillary will have ove 2M votes more than trump.

So for me your point isnt holding water.

[ErikJ]

29. Yes, we need a lot more than they do to win anymore.

She needed a couple more million to win the electoral vote even though she won the pop vote. Only in AMerica, the 1st nation of democracy. Ironic.

[BainsBane]

16. She turned out millions more votes than Bernie

So your point is demonstrably false on that comparison.

You may not have been excited, but a lot of people were. I certainly was.

[Nevernose]

21. Apparently not as excited as Trump voters

In swing states, and not exciting enough to turn out as many Democrats as Obama did.

It sucks.

[BainsBane]

24. Eichenwald explains part of why that is

Also a number of those states that turned out to be decisive implemented voter restrictions. It is also extremely difficult for a candidate from a sitting president's party to be elected. To pretend that would have magically disappeared if Bernie were the candidate is without foundation.

Also the polls fucked up majorly. Too many people got complacent and threw their votes away.

[Nevernose]

73. I'm not saying Bernie is magic

The list of shit that went wrong here? The Internet might not be a big enough place to list it all in detail. CNN, Comey, Clinton herself, Bernie Bros, Russia, voter disenfranchisement, et cetera ad infinitum.

[ErikJ]

40. Zactly right. I'm in Portland where Bernie signs EVERYWHERE

I hardly saw ANY Hillary signs after he was kicked to the curb. She admitted it herself. She's not good at this. Well duh.

[R B Garr]

58. I saw lots of Hillary signs in Southern California. When Bernie had no path to victory,

he should have left the campaign. He insisted on staying, and the result was that he gave Trump nonstop ammo. Trump even thanked Bernie for it. It's common knowledge that primary opponents are not encouraged to damage a General election opponent. It's really a shame that he disregarded that common sense advice to no good end.

[July]

22. So, "charisma" is defined as what?

Crassnes, vulgarity, racist dog whistles, lechery, stiffing people, raging narcissism?

Not seeing charisma in any form.

[ErikJ]

28. Bernie-like rallies.

Excitement and huge.

[bettyellen]

34. Low info but so much fun!

[duffyduff]

62. Bernie would have lost in a three-way contest.

We would have President Bloomberg now.

Stop trashing Hillary Clinton.

[ErikJ]

65. No I wont. Dems have to learn their lesson.

U cant run a dynasty candidate that doesnt "have it" and cant connect to the masses.
No more "coronation dynasty" bullshit in the future. Bill had it, Hill didnt.

[INdemo]

67. We had a three-way race and Hillary Lost remember

Johnson got a lot of Sanders voters and Trump got a lot of young voters because they thought Bernie was screwed over by DWS and the DNC and he was...
Also Bernie Sanders would have picked up some of the Republican votes that Trump got that was a vote against Hillary as well.

[bettyellen]

27. Trump has "charisma" ?!? Good lord the straws y'all grasp at to deny the sexism...

[ErikJ]

31. Yes he was able to excite his followers like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, Obama, JFK, FDR and Bill did

Hillary not so much. She just doesnt have it even though shes very smart.

[bettyellen]

33. Bernie didn't excite he majority of voters- he lost by a large margin.

What delusional nonsense. Wow.

[NYC Liberal]

41. "Excitement" doesn't win elections.

If Sanders "excited" his fans more than HRC "excited" hers then he should have won. But he lost big -- by nearly 4 million votes. And he won 11 fewer primaries and caucuses.

If Trump "excited" his fans more than HRC "excited" hers, HRC wouldn't have won nearly 1 million votes (and counting) more than he did. And he wouldn't have won the swing states he needed by only razor-thin margins -- margins smaller than the total number of votes for third-party candidates:

Michigan, 0.27%
Wisconsin, 0.93%
Pennsylvania, 1.24%
Florida, 1.27%

[ErikJ]

44. The Bill Clinton-loving black seniors mostly women gave the primary to Hillary.

Mostly southern state Dems. They werent on the Bernie train. Even though most young black voters were Berniecrats.

Popular vote doenst matter any more. Dems need 10% more at least to win anymore.

Admit it. The electricity wasnt there for Hillary. She was a "meh" candidate. "Lesser of 2 evils".

Here in Bernie country Portland Or I hardly saw ANY HRC signs. But millions of Bernie signs.
We were punched in the stomach when Bernie lost. Probably half didnt vote after that.

Then we were punched even harder in the stomach when the unthinkable happened.

[NYC Liberal]

49. Signs mean nothing. Nor do rallies. Only votes.

Sanders failed to GOTV no matter how much excitement he supposedly had. Which proves my point: "excitement" means nothing.

Anyone who failed to vote because they weren't sufficiently "excited", as though this election was some sort of game show, voted for Trump. Anyone who voted for Stein or Johnson voted for Trump. All of those people are part of the problem. They helped elect possibly the most dangerous candidate in the history of this country because their fee-fees were hurt. Fuck all of them.

Millions of us HRC supporters were also "punched in the stomach" in 2008 when she won 300,000 more votes than Obama but still lost the nomination. And yet we got over it and worked hard to elect our Democratic nominee. We didn't throw tantrums at the convention; we didn't take our ball and go home on Election Day.

[ErikJ]

54. Reality: For president Charisma and issue policy mean everything.

Hillary had NO charisma and ran not on policy but slamming Trump.
Her TV ads were all just anti-Trump.
Hardly anything on who or what SHE was for. "lesser of 2 evils" apparently.

I guess she was over=confident of winning and didnt want to make any promises she knew she wouldnt keep. MEH!

[manicraven]

81. I think Hillary has different qualities that many did appreciate, such as

dignity even in the face of low sucker punches (like when Trump parading Bill's alleged mistresses out); resilience, such as staying on message while Trump stalked her; and initiative and a work ethic to actually prepare for the debates. It showed she took it seriously and she cared enough to actually prepare. Plus, I thought her shimmy was cute! She often hugged people, she listened to them, she tried to answer their questions in an intelligent fashion. She provided substance at her rallies; Trump did not. These are the qualities that I think matter and should have been more important for all voters.

Meanwhile, Trump's charisma was appealing to voters' lowest instincts, to the worst in themselves, obviously inspiring hate, and he spoke to them as if they were in grade school. He repeated the same inane statements 3 times, never prepared, provided little substance. On top of that, he bullied people who attended his hate rallies, including journalists. His brand of charisma worked for people who were already angry, who wanted revenge, who were fed up, who didn't care about issues or facts, but that's not what I look for in a candidate and millions also did not appreciate his "charisma."

[Fla Dem]

123. NO, he ads were not all anti Trump. Take a stroll over to the HRC forum and take a look at her ads.

Most of the Anti Trump ads came from PACs.

Link to thread of all of HRC's ads.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=4705

[R B Garr]

74. What a horrible mischaracterization. Truly shameful. California is the largest prize,

and it went to Hillary in the Primary and the GE. Portland? Are you serious? It can't hold a candle to California. And there was lots of enthusiasm here for Hillary. I went to a rally at a local college and people were running to get a look at her and cheer for her, but it was a small venue and didn't hold many so she made a brief appearance outside. Don't get me wrong, I loved Portland, but it is no comparison to California. She generated tons of excitement.

And quit insulting people "Bill Clinton-loving black seniors mostly women". GAG, that sounds horrible, but it is truly an insight into why Bernie did not prevail in the Primary.

[TwilightZone]

133. "millions of Bernie signs"

lol, ok

"We were punched in the stomach when Bernie lost. Probably half didnt vote after that."

"Then we were punched even harder in the stomach when the unthinkable happened."

You don't see how those two statements are related, do you? And you think it's all Clinton's fault.

Hilarious.

[INdemo]

48. Thats Bullshit

Bernie had crowds standing outside of large arena's listening to him.
Hillary could not get past the corporatist label.

[NYC Liberal]

52. And those crowds meant, what, exactly?

Nothing. Because he lost in a landslide. HRC beat him by 4 million votes and won 11 more primaries and caucuses than he did.

Sanders would be been demolished in the general election. The "socialist" label alone would have sunk him.

[manicraven]

82. She wasn't running as "Bill's wife." That is a SEXIST rotten thing to say.

You obviously know nothing about Hillary Clinton and the years she has had to go up against your attitude! I feel like I'm back on Twitter right now fending off the haters.

Signing off for tonight. My nerves are shot with all the hostilities and finger pointing. Really, I can't take any more sexist crap.

[Ligyron]

105. There is some sexism involved, no doubt.

But a lot of the same sexists apparently had no problem with the likes of Sarah Palin and Margret Thatcher.

It was sexism plus: hating of liberalism, ect.

We best figure out a way around this somehow.

[R B Garr]

35. She won the popular vote to the tune of 1 MILLION and counting.

Trump snaked some rural folks to the tune of about 100,000 total, spread conveniently over the battleground states she supposedly rigged....

So you are wrong. I was very excited to vote for her. Trump is a truly frightening assclown.

[ErikJ]

39. Eliz Warren or Bernie wouldve creamed Trump

Apparently Dems now have to have 10% lead to win the electoral vote. ONLY in America.

[R B Garr]

42. lol, that is just wishful thinking and recycled claptrap at this point.

People don't even want to pay for Obamacare, so Bernie would have had no chance in a General with his unrealistic, poorly defined and expensive social policies.

Trump is a putdown artist and he would have had Warren or Bernie for lunch. Remember it doesn't matter if what he said was true or not.

And that's not even getting into the third party voters and their pathetic protest votes. It's obvious now that in order to get more policies passed, you have to stay in power. You don't give power up for some purity claptrap.

[SharonAnn]

84. Though I loved them, they wouldn't have beaten Trump.

[MyNameIsKhan]

15. We in DU were encapsulated in our own community... and majority of population growth that favored

HRC was already in solid blue states... I saw so many people crying out here in CA ... we voted solidly in her favor and it appears we will loose so much under Trump. So much funding going away... I hope Jerry Brown will raise taxes to cover for this... I am ready to pay more to cover our poor and seniors.

CA pays so much in federal taxes and get almost nothing back ... have zero say in country.

[FrenchieCat]

18. I believe that this election was a Coup....

So I don't think she really lost.

1% under in each swing state sounds kinda convenient!

[Bobbie Jo]

26. I do too, Frenchie.

There was tampering involved at some level, I'm convinced of this.

No one will ever touch this with an investigation for fear of uncovering the truth and unprecedented ramifications. I'm no conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but there is something is seriously wrong here.

Besides, the narrative is already in place.

[R B Garr]

30. Bingo, I think you're on to something here. All Trump's whining about a rigged

election just gave them cover to rig it themselves. I'm not a conspiracy person, either, but with Trump stealing the rigged system mantra from the Primary, it just gave them cover.

[haele]

129. Just remember Rove's playbook...always accuse your opponent of doing what you're doing.

It either convinces enough last-minute thinkers that the other guy is a crook, or it inoculates you when you're finally caught out (it sets up the "everybody does it" defense).

Trump was whining about a rigged election during the debates when he was exposing his petulant tweenager ID because it was already rigged. He said himself - he'd only accept the outcome when he wins. Between those two statements, there were a lot of warning bells going off in my head. I'm an old woman, I remember Lee Atwater as well as Rove. From what I could see, Trump was comforting himself with the expectation all his campaign strategists and the party hacks in GOP dominated states had it handled, with the voter caging, the inaccurate "Cross-Check", etc that was already going on.

I hate to say but I'd only listen to what Trump says is going on around him (as opposed to his promises) - because that's about the only thing he can say that is true. He'll always blurt out whatever's on his mind or whatever the last person told him if he's not following the official script of the sales pitch. He may be a good con artist in sales, but he's a very bad liar when it comes to hiding what's going on.

Haele

[VOX]

50. My thoughts as well...

And I'm NOT a conspiracy nut. But this is just too "perfect" a scenario. Every battleground state? By a whisker? And Repugs have a long history of disliking the results of legitimate elections.

And all of Trump's whining about "it's rigged, etc." They are masters of projection. Whatever distasteful things they accuse Democrats of doing, THEY are the ones who are doing it!

[mountain grammy]

68. It's hard not to think that..

purged voting rolls, voter ID. Lots of suppression going on. Comey. This was a coup all right. Like 2000 and I sure remember how that worked out for us.

[INdemo]

87. I agree but think about this

First let me say Hillary Clinton did not have the creme of the crop to manage her campaign.

Secondly Obama with his team overcame all the obstacles the Hillary Clinton campaign did not.

The Obama campaign team did this twice. Just think about how surprised the Romney campaign was when he lost.
Think about how surprised Karl Rove was when Obama won Ohio in 2012
The fix was in but his campaign officials figured this out

We are talking about an African American that won twice against the Republicans so called best of the best.
In 2016 we are talking about a Clinton campaign that lost against the worst,most incompetent candidate in history.

[blueotter]

19. Trump didn't win without the help of:

The FBI (Comey)
Russia and Wikileaks
The enabling media
Voter suppression
Misinformation on social media

The guy had all that help to win and STILL couldn't win the popular vote. What a loser. It's eating him up, too. His ego can't stand he lost because not too many people like him.

[July]

23. That's why he suggests w/o proof that protesters are paid by rich Dems.

His teeny, tiny, fragile ego must deflect the idea that lots of people have legitimate reason to oppose him. They must be Dem operatives. That's one insecure blowhard.

[Equinox Moon]

20. A perfect storm brewed with angry white men

No-way are they going to vote for a woman, no matter who it was.

[ismnotwasm]

89. Yup.

[Ligyron]

107. They voted for Palin, Jan Brewer, etc.

Something else is going on.

edit: a majority of white women voted against her. Are they all sexist too?

[Equinox Moon]

117. the women who voted for dumpman probably were religious right-wing

Abortion. It could have been a one-issue vote.

[lunasun]

135. Then why did Trump win the white women vote?

[Equinox Moon]

136. Maybe they are from the Christian-right

with one issue voting: Abortion.

[lunasun]

137. Ha yes the ones at his rallies with trump can grab my pussy and clinton sucks Tshirts . Sure

Keep telling yourself that

[Equinox Moon]

138. No cause to lash out at me, we are all hurting from this election.

I was not commenting to be an advocate. I stated my opinion regarding an aspect of the white woman vote. Your comment back to me, stung.

[marylandblue]

25. It doesn't take a lot of misogynists to lose an election

She lost Michigan by 10,000 votes and Wisconsin by 30,000. It's not so hard to believe there could be 40,000 misogynists in those two states.

[Feeling the Bern]

32. The bastard picked up many votes among black men, latinos and white women

Go fucking figure. Apparently, people love their marginalization and oppression.

[shireen]

38. i've been struggling to understand

and have been reading as much as I could about it. WHY?

I still dont understand.

[Bettie]

47. Voter. Suppression.

Along with a 25 year propaganda campaign.

Right wingers, especially women of that ilk hate her far more than anyone realized.

Apparently, hate is the most important value of all to the 25% who voted for that creature.

[duffyduff]

55. All of that is true, but in the end,

people are extremely vulnerable to media manipulation, i.e., propaganda, and we saw the most blatant form of it in American history.

It is hard to wrap one's mind around this, but it is pretty much what happened here.

You have millions of people who were already susceptible to propaganda after years of a steady diet of hate radio and Fox, but it all came to the fore when so-called "mainstream media" perverted the purpose of NEWS organizations and turned them into "entertainment" ones.

You had one man who was solely responsible for promoting an unserious candidate on the public because this man just knew Trump was a ratings winner. He had been one for NBC, so why not CNN? Never mind a news organization's duty to the public interest.

We are really fucked as a result of it.

[SunSeeker]

56. It was obvious to me that Hillary lost because of Comey's 1-2 punch.

First he puts out a letter implying there is potentially criminal evidence against her, and does that 12 days before the election, at the height of early voting. That brought the suburban Republicans, who had been breaking for Hillary, suddenly over to Trump. They assumed Hillary would be indicted or at the very least did something horrible to warrant such an unprecedented letter. Then, just two days before the election, Comey sends out his second letter saying he is not changing his earlier conclusion (which the press dutifully recounted as bashing Hillary's carelessness and bad judgment). That angered and fired up the Trump supporters who thought the second letter demonstrates that the system is rigged. And like the first letter, it further depressed the Hillary supporter vote. That was an obviously devastating 1-2 punch.

[Buddha2B]

66. When i was trying to be Christian 10 years ago

I spent a lot of time on Christian forums. Almost all of them got taken over by Far Right US Nutters, even though they catered internationally (I am an Aussie) and Christianity does not end at US borders.

I was told I either support Bush and all his wars or I can get stuffed as I wasn't a real Christian unless I signed up to the propaganda of the US Right Wing.

So I was dealing with them for a good 7 years or so. They are why I am no longer part of the Empire religion.

But it also gave me a peak behind the curtain at who these people were. As close to pure evil that we can get in the western world. These were the types of people that would torture and kill people who were witches, but really it was just so people could steal land and property.

These are our (The Western World) Taliban, and they just won the election with the help of conspiracy nutters, the FBI and various other hackers.

EDIT: My rant about Christians is post number 66! Yeah baby!

[Hekate]

75. Hillary actually WON by a million votes and counting. Never forget that.

Sorry about your experience with RW Christians. They can be pretty vile and unChristian.

Back in the BushCheney administration I got on the email lists of a couple of liberal Christian and Interfaith groups, even though I am on the Goddess path myself. Those are some very good people, and they fought what BushCheney were doing. They will be hard at work again in the coming years. Keep the (Inter)faith!

[Yukari Yakumo]

80. She ignored the Rust Belt. That's how she lost.

She never visited Wisconsin once during the GE.
She lost Wisconsin and Michigan to Bernie during the primaries.
She took the entire Rust Belt for granted and Trump pounced.

[boston bean]

86. How do you explain PA then?

[Glassunion]

134. where did she rally in the state compared to trump?

IIRC she primarily visited areas already friendly to her. Philly, Pitt, Scranton, Harrisburg. PA is a lot bigger than those three areas.

[BlueProgressive]

85. A lot of the people who voted for Trump just wanted to throw a bomb

at the system, and now they have.


It was a mistake to nominate a candidate with such high polling negatives, negatives which had been pretty well locked in for decades.

It was also a mistake to nominate a candidate who'd spent the last year (rightly or wrongly) under investigation by the FBI. The actual outcome of such an investigation really does not matter; the damage was already done.

This seems like "basic presidential politics 101" to me. I don't know why so many people thought the rules were going to be different this year, for some reason-- or maybe those people never understood that these were pretty basic rules for winning a presidential election in the first place.

Once the nomination was decided, I got behind the party's candidate, of course, but-- the damned emails and Clinton issues kept coming back like a bad penny. It just never ends.

I had also felt that there should have been a person of color on the ticket, from the beginning-- but I suppose there aren't a lot of viable officeholders from which to choose, there. Still, I think there could have been someone, instead of going with a nice, "safe", WHITE MALE choice who ended up not doing all that well in his single debate.

I'm not going to claim that Bernie Sanders would have won. I can't know that, of course. However, his Howard Bealesque "real change" mantra, and positions on trade seem to be what a large segment of the electorate was looking for. I think he would have gotten at least enough of those Trump voters, especially those who might rather not have voted for Trump because he's been SUCH an asshole and other things besides, to have made the difference for us in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania-- the three states we normally expect to be able to win, and that would have equaled victory in the electoral college (which clearly needs to go, of course). Not that right-wingers would vote for him, but Sanders had pull with independents which was amply demonstrated in the primaries, and was an anti-establishment "angry" candidate in the year of the angry, anti-establishment voter-- he was tailor-made for 2016. He was the REAL populist as opposed to the fake populist, Trump. We lost some Democrats in those states because of TRADE and economics, make no mistake about that.

We lost most of these places by pretty narrow margins-- Michigan was only 11,000 votes at last check. It would not have taken much to have made the difference in those three critical states...

The polls maybe weren't that wrong going into it. They all showed Hillary at less than 50%, and with still a good number of undecided voters. Unfortunately, the undecided broke 2-1 for Trump, and maybe a few Democrats just couldn't abide Hillary Clinton at the last moment.

When I saw how things were starting to go, I was close to throwing up, then just more or less sick and devastated. It was unbelievable to me that this could happen, at that point-- especially with Donald Trump. It hit me much worse than 2004.

I was pretty excited election day, thinking women were finally going to have "their day", and I voted for women up and down the ballot. I am very sorry that they could not break that glass ceiling. Hillary had her faults, but she sure didn't deserve to lose the election to that no good, woman-hating, revolting KKK son of a bitch.

The OP is right-- I could not quite imagine that POS winning this election, after having paid real close attention the whole time. Maybe he won on the strength of those who hadn't paid enough attention.

And yeah, she did win the popular vote by a million-plus so far, but it should not even have been this close, considering the opposition. Still, there's no fucking "Trump mandate" when he lost the popular vote by a million-plus votes.

Now I'm likely to lose my health insurance, which I only have thanks to "Obamacare". I'm just at the age where I may really start to need it.

[B Calm]

90. Hillary did not lose because she was a women. She lost because the DNC

took away the best candidate in the primary, period!

[boston bean]

91. still singing that old song and dance huh?

you still bitter she got more votes than bernie.. poor you...

[B Calm]

92. Continue to ignore the truth and the party is doomed.

[boston bean]

93. If you think everyone is scared off buy bologne like this, and uncritical thinking

and easy answers, you might need to find a different party. especially when you let everyone know DOOMED you think all us people who voted for the better candidate are.

While people who feel like you took no action to stop up, but to actually propel the monster into the WH.

[B Calm]

95. This election proved the party can not win without the left wing

of the party.

[boston bean]

96. hahahahaah.. Glad people who feel and possibly vote like you were so right!!

My god... leave me the hell alone with this BS. I hope they are just as happy as I with 40 years of conservatism on the scotus.

The new deal they cared so much about being gutted. My god, what a bunch of stupid fucking idiots.

[B Calm]

97. The morons were the DNC.

[boston bean]

99. The morons are the ones who risked everything to prove they were right by helping

a bigoted asshole win an election.

[liquid diamond]

108. Preach

Preach. I'm so tired of left wing purists trying to hijack our party.

[MelissaB]

114. The corporate wing is working out so well.

Tell me again how many governors, senators, and congress critters we picked up this election?

[Fast Walker 52]

110. not true at all

[B Calm]

124. Wow, that's a convincing argument.

[randr]

94. We were not all wrong

There were many of us who saw this coming and tried our best to convince others that Trump had a populist movement that would defeat any inside the beltway candidate.
The outcome does not surprise me at all. I look at all the previous Obama voters who just wanted change and accept their holding to principle.
I cannot accept their disregard for the integrity of our nations highest office by placing such a despicable person in our WH.
We had a candidate that promised a change. Both parties and the MSM made sure that would not happen.

[Ligyron]

111. I'll say this once to get it out of my system and I'm done.

We ran a candidate that had too much going against her. Yeah, it was all BS true - and I donated to her campaign and voted for her anyway but was afraid this might happen and it did. She actually won the election but that doesn't count apparently.

Everybody in the DNC needs to go.Now.

Under their inept leadership we have lost all three branches of Government. We'd have a better chance by all joining the Republican party and trying to change it from within than wining another election with the corporate DNC mindset still in charge.

Instead of being idealistic to win elections maybe we need to win first and then be idealistic. Too much emphasis on women, minorities, LBGT issues and pandering to corporations and the donor class and not enough on the working class that was once the backbone of our party.

Now did I say I was against any of the former? On the contrary, I fully support all of them except the corporations but if the face of the party becomes Keith Ellison be prepared to lose even more than we already had if that's possible. I like Keith but we need him in Congress and we also need a full time Party Chair in the mold of Howard Dean who delivered all three branches of government the last time he was in charge.

I say we get to work and remember that all politics is local.

[They_Live]

139. Yes

Thank you.

[closeupready]

112. Wrong but since you and your clique know everything,

I will be silent. Cheers.

[MelissaB]

116. It's looking pretty hopless here.

This has been my internet home for 12 years or so. Bloody hell...

[closeupready]

119. Yes. If you are a liberal or progressive, and DU is run by people like the OP,

you are wasting energy and time looking here for guidance as to how to win elections. It saddens me to say that, but it is clearly the reality.

Peace to you, MelissaB!

[cwydro]

125. Even my 90 year old mom said that there was misogyny involved.

Obvious.

And sadly, much of it came from women. It makes me sad.

[George II]

126. "it appears that the woman was the worse candidate"....the truly sad reality is that...

....in the eyes of too many American voters Hillary Clinton was of the worse gender. I don't think that's going to change very soon, either.

[Generator]

128. Basically racism & hatred of women

And oh and probably Putin doing WHATEVER he could.

And I will give a pass to all that voted for 3rd party or even didn't vote. They were stupid=probably cost us everything but.. but not evil and selfish like Trump voters. My pocketbook over a few million kids losing mom and dad. My pocketbook over some innocent Muslim (up next Jews-they hate Jews just as much believe me I know I have a neo-Nazi relative-I refuse to say "alt-right"-it's too cute) being killed some innocent Mexican being beat up. Some woman being raped. Who cares? Trump might help me get a job. Say 20% of the people are evil fucks. They are the ones I blame the most.

[WhiteTara]

130. Yep. Nasty Woman who got too uppity

and THEY cut her (and all women) down to size. It will probably be a long time before another woman gets up the nerve to try that again. Especially since we will lose rights to our own bodies.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

131. Sanders doesn't have charisma. He is anti-charisma. Charisma is a small part of running.

We know when somebody looks good like O'Malley, his message - if any - didn't resonate.

New faces are popping up and getting in the fight like Tom Steyer

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steyer-vows-to-battle-trump_us_582c8307e4b099512f80135e

We need to stand up for the vulnerable and Medicare. For fighting Climate Change. And finally women. We need to talk more clearly about tax cuts. It is all muddled.

[duffyduff]

140. Moreover, Trump was a JOKE candidate along the lines of Pat Paulsen

who was endlessly promoted by NEWS media. Millions of idiots thought he was better than a vastly qualified woman.

But don't kid yourself about the sexism. It was rampant in the Democratic primaries. Many men especially are fucked up in the head when it comes to women exercising power. The left dudes are the worst because they have no use for women unless the women provide them unlimited sexual access. Bernie Sanders was one such dude back in the day when he was involved in the New Left. Many of his male followers have the same beliefs.

It may be centuries before this country, if it still exists, has a female president.