If you strictly judge style over substance, I'd agree that Pence's "Keep Calm and LIE" strategy was impressive. The man can tell complete and obvious lies with a smooth grace.

And yeah, Kaine was maybe a bit too strident at the beginning of the debate.

BUT.

1) Pence did not help his candidate. Even that CBS poll that shows Pence narroely winning shows that most think Kaine did a better job for his candidate.

2) Pence told obvious, and easily disprovable lies. And the media is spending some time and ink today doing just that.

Pence did not fall on his face like Trump did, but this was all about setting himself up for a later run, where people will remeber him as the "smooth and reasonable one" compared to that walking disaster Trump.

tgards79

(1,415 posts)

9. Yes...

Reply to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 05:53 PM

Oct 2016

...and that was the main point of the article, hence the title.

reggieandlee

(780 posts)

10. How many people went back and fact-checked Pence?

Reply to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 11:16 PM

Oct 2016

The interesting point made in this article is that Pence made a very clear and intentional calculation: that the impression he left in the moment, in real time, was 1.000 times more important than the worrying about whether his assertions passed muster with fact checkers 24 hours later. He knew that only one out of 100 viewers actually tune in to CNN the next day to find out who was telling the truth and who wasn't. In America today, lying is good strategy. The benefits are enormous and the risk is tiny, because most Americans lack the knowledge or inclination to discern fact from fiction. Pence played it. Plain and simple.

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)

13. Nate Silver once observed....

Reply to reggieandlee (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 6, 2016, 08:21 AM

Oct 2016

That the "winner" of the snap polls is not always perceived as having won a few weeks later. The media really needs to reinforce the points for it to take hold. If the media instead is talking about what they are talking about now... how Pence didn't really back Trump, and his outright falsehoods, that deeply undermines the narrative that Pence won.

VEEP debates don;t usually affect the overall race anyway, but this will complete the job.

Bill Clinton's bone-headed remarks will have more impact (and that will be very little).

reggieandlee

(780 posts)

14. And what does "winning" really mean?

Reply to Adrahil (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 6, 2016, 09:34 AM

Oct 2016

You make a great point.

But, interestingly, the article parses "winning" into two discrete components: (1) who "won" the debate, and (2) who did the best job to support the election of the ticket.

Kaine's relentless prosecution of Trump -- with little or no defense from Pence -- may have meant that Pence "won" the battle -- the debate -- but contributed to "losing the war."

susanna

(5,231 posts)

11. What you said here is so true...

Reply to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 11:33 PM

Oct 2016

"The man can tell complete and obvious lies with a smooth grace."

Yes, he can. When I encounter people like that in my own life, I run away as fast as i can. They cannot be trusted. Not sure why anyone finds it okay or benign.

prayin4rain

(2,065 posts)

12. I agree. How lying 70% of the time during a debate can be considered doing a good job, is beyond me.

Reply to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 11:37 PM

Oct 2016

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