Jamelle Bouie: This Wasn’t a Debate. This Was a National Gaslighting.

[babylonsister]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/mike_pence_won_because_he_was_shameless_about_denying_reality.html

This Wasn’t a Debate. This Was a National Gaslighting.

If Mike Pence “won,” it’s because he was shameless about denying reality.
By Jamelle Bouie


The vice presidential debate does not move votes, and will not move votes. People commit to parties, and then they commit to the top of the ticket. Almost no one backs a ticket (or switches sides) because of the running mate. This fact—that these debates, in a real sense, don’t matter—makes it tempting to treat them as pure political theater, judged on style and poise.
Jamelle Bouie Jamelle Bouie

By that standard, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence won the vice presidential debate with Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, full stop. Pence, who worked in conservative talk radio before moving to electoral politics, was calm, smooth, and steady. He was an effective advocate for conservative ideology, a polished voice for lower taxes, less redistribution, a more aggressive posture on the global stage (against Russia especially), and new restrictions on abortion. Against Kaine—who interrupted, cross-talked, and spoke in a rapid, hurried clip—Pence looked commanding, almost presidential. And on Twitter, pundits and observers began immediate speculation about the vice presidential nominee’s prospects for 2020, should Donald Trump lose the election for president.

But politics isn’t pure theater, and we shouldn’t use that standard. Who performed better is less important than whether the candidates were honest and truthful. Whether Kaine or Pence was polished and polite matters less than whether they gave a fair and good-faith accounting of themselves and their politics to the public. And by that standard, Mike Pence was a clear and abysmal failure.

snip//

Again and again and again, Tim Kaine confronted Mike Pence on statements from his running mate, and again and again, Pence either ignored them or denied them outright, shaking his head and giving the audience a look of smarmy incredulity, as if Kaine were reading couplets from the Necronomicon. At a certain point, Pence even doubled down on the idea that Hillary Clinton had run an offensive, insult-driven campaign.

snip//

Mike Pence was better at this debate. He was smoother, more polished. More confident. And for 90 minutes, he used that polish and confidence to deny Trump’s rhetoric and behavior and gaslight the country that has borne witness to them. To call this winning is to act as if nothing matters. But vice presidents stand a real chance of sitting in the Oval Office. It matters. If Pence “won,” it’s because he denied the truth even existed.

Maybe this was a preview of what will happen if the Republican nominee loses his race for the presidency. There won’t be recriminations or questions. The GOP won’t have to answer for anything. Instead, Republican leaders like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz—and even Mike Pence—will shake their heads and give looks of smarmy incredulity and pretend as if nothing happened, as if they didn’t support a white nationalist’s bid for the world’s most important elected office.

[global1]

1. War Is Peace - Freedom Is Slavery - Ignorance Is Strength And A Couple Of New Ones.....

Lying Is Truth - and the one that worries me the most - Losing Is Winning.

We have truly witnessed the genius of George Orwell and 1984 in this 2016 bid for the White House.

Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me all the time and you have successfully achieved Orwelll's world.

Many among us now are fooled all the time.

Be worried - really worried.

[yeoman6987]

2. If they are worthless, why both having it? Seems a waste of everyone's time.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. "smoother"? Kaine rattled Pence several times so that Pence stumbled until he remembered his lines.

[Cosmocat]

5. RIGHT!

this is the frame that people are grasping at try to gussy it up.

He repeatedly mumbled and stumbled, and at least a dozen times rolled his eyes, sighed and did the that is a lie routine. Kaine was a little over aggressive, but Pences non-verbals were MUCH worse. But, the media has to have something to rally around to prop up the Rs, so he "looked and carried himself well" is the last line of defense.

[Coyotl]

4. Just read his Twitter feed. Hilarious stuff.

https://twitter.com/jbouie

Jamelle Bouie @jbouie
@Slate Chief Political Correspondent. @CBSNews Political Analyst.

Kaine: "Your name is Michael Pence. You were born in 1959. You have a wife. You have children."
Pence: "Nonsense. Never happened."

KAINE, SWEATING PROFUSELY: "Gov. Pence. You are a governor. You were elected, twice."
PENCE, SHAKING HEAD: "That's low, even for you."

KAINE, MOUTH OPEN: "Gov. Pence, why won't you defend Trump?"
PENCE, SMILING AT THE AUDIENCE: "Donald Trump isn't real. You made him up."

KAINE, WEEPING: "Gov. Pence, we are at a debate. I am talking to you. Right now. Live."
PENCE, EYES TWINKLING: "Prove it."

[world wide wally]

6. I was waiting for Pence to say, "says who"?

[The Wizard]

7. The Bush administration

told bigger lies with each passing day so the media nd the average American just gave up.

[DAngelo136]

8. I was just messing around on the internets...

when I came across Ronny Cox's website. Turns out he's a hell of a musician. He's been focusing on his band tours than acting lately and he's not immune to the headlines regarding the Presidential election. Check out his song "Trumped":

http://www.ronnycox.com/videos/trumped-ronny-cox/

[hfojvt]

9. "a polished voice for lower taxes"

Too bad that is often NOT what Republicans are about.

Indiana, for example, is the 10th most regressive state in the union. The middle quintile in Indiana pays TWICE the rate of taxes as the top 1%, and the poorest quintile pays 2% more than the middle.

Indiana was NOT in the top 10 (for regressive taxes) in 2007, but they raised the sales tax that year (Pence, however, did not become Governor until 2013). Thus, in 1997 Indiana got 28% of its revenue from sales taxes, by 2007 that was up to 38%.

Another example, a bill which Pence recently signed, proposed higher gas and cigarette taxes along with income tax cuts, which left 80% of people in Indiana paying higher taxes while the top 5% paid significantly lower taxes. (Note, I cannot be sure if the bill that passed included these measures, but it seems typically Republican to me)

Details about the taxes here http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2016/02/rate_cuts_to_offset_gas_and_ci.php#.V_Ujm_T_q1s

Article saying it passed, makes no mention of either gas tax increases or income tax cuts.
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/03/10/whats-happening-final-day-2016-indiana-general-assembly/81577606/

[Saviolo]

10. The media coverage of this debate has been absurd.

And I don't mean silly, I mean actually absurd. Like, surreal and bizarre like a Magritte painting.

So, leading up to the debate, the media hinted and predicted it would be boring. Two old white guys, plain as vanilla, "duking" it out over minor points of policy. It wasn't, really. I found parts of it absolutely fascinating. Watching Pence disavow the top of the ticket, watching Kaine lob facts off of Pence's impenetrable bullshit armour. A major party VP candidate bald-facedly lying with no fact checking.

But the news today? "It was a boring debate." Hello confirmation bias.

Also, of course, Pence gets points for being calmer and cooler and smoother. The coverage immediately after the debate was all about how he won because Kaine was rude. The media didn't pick up on the attempt to gaslight the entire nation until this morning and, it could be argued, that's almost too late.

We need Jon Stewart to come back to scream at the media "I'm here to confront you, because we need help from the media and they're hurting us" again.

[ffr]

11. The difference in debates was the moderator didn't fact check Pence's lies real time.

Lying Pence, not able to defend or play off his rehearsed script. The audience didn't see it and the instant polls didn't see it, BUT WE DID. Mike is blank faced liar.