2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumJust talked to my conservative neighbor...
And he said something that really concerned me. He said that President Obama "simply isn't one of us." He quickly said that it's not about "where he was born" but who he is. I asked him to elaborate and this is the answer I got:
"He never served in the military and he's never run a business." I mentioned to him that I haven't served in the military to which he replied "Well, neither have I, but my father did!"
This is the problem I have with the righties...they believe that if an American citizen isn't exactly like THEM, and have had THEIR experiences, they are somehow "less" of an American than they are. This divisive attitude is what's polarizing this country. Now, I understand that people tend to vote for candidates who they believe understands their needs and values. I personally didn't feel that Mitt Romney could possibly understand the needs and problems of people like myself, given the fact his background is very different from mine. However, I have never doubted that Mitt Romney is as much of an American as I am.
The truth is this--it takes ALL KINDS of people to make a strong society and thus a great country. Why is it that so many conservatives cannot understand this?
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,704 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)American that some people think is equal to the blue eyed blonde Jesus they want to believe in.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Your neighbor is a racist, and his tip-toeing is simply trying to hide that fact under a pile of bullshit.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)sellitman
(11,607 posts)Your neighbor is a racist bastard.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)I grew up in South Africa (have lived in the US for 15 years now) and I know racism when I see it. This is as clear as it can be.
renate
(13,776 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The guy is a racist and thinks Obama is "not one of us" ... but he can't say that, so he has to "reverse engineer" the rationale.
If Obama had run a business, or if he had served in the military, or even both, the guy would simply manufacture other justifications to describe his feeling that "Obama isn't one of us."
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Rambis
(7,774 posts)He's Black.
Blue4Texas
(437 posts)From Kansas
We People
(619 posts)See the image of his Dunham grandparents at
http://bit.ly/PQo59A
Blue4Texas
(437 posts)busterbrown
(8,515 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Perhaps he hasn't recognized it in himself but that's the word we're looking for here.
I call people out on this whenever I get the opportunity. I especially like to call out those who declare they are not.
I'm black, my bigot-dar is always set on "sensitive".
FLyellowdog
(4,276 posts)MissMarple
(9,656 posts)In fact, Jonathan Haidt says we, liberals, are actually in the minority. We are more open to novelty and accepting of change. Conservatives are less tolerant, more religious and hierarchical. We are all born the way we are but we can change our views. It is just easier for us. Google him. I think he's great. A lot of work has been done in this area in the past 20 years or so.
http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html
FLyellowdog
(4,276 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)EmeraldCityGrl
(4,310 posts)served in the military than rmoney. Not one rmoney male going back generations ever served
in the military. Obama's Grandfather and his Uncle both served during WW2.
Mike Nelson
(9,967 posts)...while George McGovern and John Kerry did not... they only see what they want to see.
Ilsa
(61,698 posts)From top post:
"He never served in the military and he's never run a business." I mentioned to him that I haven't served in the military to which he replied "Well, neither have I, but my father did!"
Stanley Dunham was much more of a father to Barack than Obama Sr - who spent just a few weeks with him when he was old enough to remember it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama
...
Stanley Dunham is the grandfather of Barack Obama. He was born in 1918 and served as a sergeant in the U.S. Army during World War II, enlisting just after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. Stanley and his wife Madelyn raised Obama in Honolulu, Hawaii.
...
Charles Thomas Payne: Great-uncle of Barack Obama, younger brother of Madelyn Dunham, born 1925. Served during World War II in the U.S. Army 89th Infantry Division (cleduc - 89th division was part of General George Patton's Third US Army).[35] Obama has often described Payne's role in liberating Ohrdruf forced labor camp.
...
Ralph Dunham: Great-uncle of Barack Obama, older brother of Stanley Dunham, born 1916. He served in the U.S. Army as an assignment and personnel officer during World War II, landing at Normandy's Omaha Easy Red Beach on D-Day plus four, working his way through France, Italy and Germany.[40][41]
Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham: Barack Obama's maternal grandmother
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelyn_Lee_Payne_Dunham#World_War_II
During World War II, .... Madelyn worked the night shift on a Boeing B-29 assembly line in Wichita.
That is as American a family history as apple pie.
Blue4Texas
(437 posts)Awknid
(381 posts)He's racist because he is afraid of anyone not like him. Racism is caused mostly from being afraid of the people in the race they are against.
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)Shall I continue? Okay. None of Mitt's sons served.
Your neighbor is a racist prick.
He voted for the white guy whose family has no military service instead of an African American with a maternal grandfather and Great Uncle Charlie; both of whom served in WW II.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)do I need this:
Cosmocat
(14,573 posts)it is simply us vs them, sports like loyalty to the team.
If someone had the same exact life experience as Barrack Obama, from the color of his skin to his childhood to his education to being a community organizer, but he was willing to spew the nonsense that republicans spew, and he got elected president, they would LOVE him.
It is ALL BS, and they just blow in the wind depending on the situation to rationalize their nonsense.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,778 posts)Nobody here is even close to middle class.
Most wanted Obama out of office. Absolutely no arguing with them.
I'm in a "white" neighborhood.
They portray themselves as Conservatives.
No, knowing them they are just racists.
Sorry but true!
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)would the same people vote for a white Dem - probably no.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)And their reason would be because the white Democrat would give everything to "teh blackz".
Even when it's a white guy they're voting against, they're doing it because they hate minorities.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)progressoid
(49,999 posts)As if Rmoney was.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Never mind he's a Wall St predator who doesn't pay taxes, and a mormon bishop to boot. Just being white was sufficient for many voters.
cgnick
(59 posts)beac
(9,992 posts)And Ryan has worked in "big government" for almost 2 decades. By his logic, isn't Ryan not "one of us" as well??
That was the first thing I thought of when I read the rascist neighbor's comment.
And, I wonder how many people who supported Romney even KNOW about his draft dodging? Or if they do, why does he get a "pass" on that?
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)Joe Biden is as close to "one of us" as anyone at that level of gov't has been in decades. He is the only serious example.
GWB, white skin and a redneck accent gave him the appearance, but he was in fact the coddled son of a millionaire and legacy admit to the Ivey League, the only "jobs" he had were running companies dad and dad's friends put him in charge of that he ran into the ground. Not really "one of us".
BHO, working class roots for sure, but President of the Harvard Law Review, sets him apart from "one of us"
Mittens, vulture capitalist son of a millionaire. Nothing in even the most pro-Mitt background pieces ever suggested that he ever did work that raised a sweat or got his hands dirty.
Kerry, married very well indeed - Ivey League - not one of us.
You have to walk a fair way back into history to find "one of us" rising to that level. Some candidates faked it better than others.
None of this is offered as criticism per se, there is nothing essentially wrong with being an exception. It is what you do with it that matters. The problem is the illusion that these folks are "one of us", as they largely aren't, but making it seem that way is good propoganda.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)a kennedy
(29,707 posts)Give me a break. Ugh....
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)My mom has said she has a few friends like that where she lives and told me it really bothers her. She voted for Obama both times.
I've never served in the military or run a business either. That doesn't make me any less of an American.
Their logic is just plain F@(& up!
MuttLikeMe
(279 posts)Firebirds01
(576 posts)grandfather liberated a Nazi concentration camp.
cleduc
(653 posts)that I posted here.
He was asked if a CEO's experience was a good qualification for president and he responded that he didn't think so.
A Chairman of the Board and Owner of a company is the God of that company. Everything he says and does that is lawful goes. He has 100% complete control to hire, fire or delegate employees to do whatever he wants that company to do. He can go into other markets/businesses or get out of other markets/businesses. He can set prices and wages, etc. The CEO is the primary and final decision maker.
Although regarded as "the most powerful man in the world", the president doesn't have that same power as a CEO. He has that authority over those employed directly by the administration with some strings attached. for example, he has to get congressional approval to hire key "management" - the cabinet. And if he fires someone, that also can come under scrutiny by congress - as can nearly any decision he makes by the media and congress - unlike most CEOs.
The president can influence who becomes a judge with nominations. But the final decision and approval is with congress. And once he's made that pick, he can't make the decisions that that judge will ultimately make - he can't fire that judge. So he doesn't have much control over the judicial branch as we saw with Citizens United.
And we've certainly seen that the President doesn't have much control over congress over the last four years - even when his party has a majority in both houses. He's an influencer of that decision process only if his party has some control within one of those houses but not the final decision maker like a CEO - with the exception of a veto to stop a bad decision.
I think a guy like Romney who has been a CEO would find the presidency quite an adjustment and frustrating because he can't control as much of what goes on as many people think.
The president has a bunch of control over foreign policy but even there, diplomacy is required. Now a CEO usually possesses a component of that: salesmanship. But even there, as the president, salesmanship has it's limitations and isn't the same thing - pitching to potential customers vs trying to get along with foreign adversaries that may be trying to kill you literally.
Even the economics is considerably different. A CEO is usually focused on making a bottom line profit. The US government is not trying to make a profit on Medicare, Social Security, Military spending, etc - they're non profit entities while that's the lion's share of the country's expenses. And the economics is not purely market driven within a slice of the economy like a CEO faces - it's macro economics with currency, inflation, interest rates, tax incentives, median incomes, etc - a different economic problem than what the CEO encounters.
Having experience as a CEO is a nice to have experience but far from a requirement for president because the jobs are truly so different.
People often overlook that Barack Obama has run a couple of billion dollar entities pretty darn well: his campaigns in the 2008 primary and general election & the 2012 general election cleaned his rivals clock in generating direct revenues and how smartly those campaigns managed their money/expenses. He hired great management and staff. The effort was focused, lawful and disciplined. The marketing was slicker with "Change we can believe in", etc and the more effective advertising. The technology was better from internet financing, messaging and supporting the ground game. And all those campaigns were run much better than his rivals on a business level (Clinton, McCain & Romney).
As others have noted, Lincoln, Roosevelt & Reagan and the vast majority of US presidents had no CEO experience.
treestar
(82,383 posts)He bought and sold them. He drained and bankrupted them.
Military service is simply unnecessary. Most people haven't done military service.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Clinton was a life-long career politician. Amazingly, you never heard the "he wasn't one of us" stuff about him.
These people need to get over themselves. It's coming to a point where it's more likely we'll have a President who hasn't been in the military or run a business. And those that think you need some sort of business experience to be the President need to watch a few seasons of The West Wing or read a book about how our Federal government is run. The President is more like a figure head than a CEO. Not to say the President doesn't make important decisions but he has so many advisors around him and people actually running the government that he doesn't need to have those specific experiences.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Neither did his father, grandfather or some such.
That is just an excuse.
In regards to Business, businesses especially large ones are not bound by a country any more.
In fact, larger businesses declare losses in the US with their profits elsewhere to reduce or get off paying taxes altogether.
Sorry but no, like another person here said, "Not One of Us = Black"
gang
(24 posts)hlthe2b
(102,361 posts)Something that still astounds me as I don't know a single person whose grandfather (or father, depending on their age cohort) did not serve in WWI, WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. I know NO ONE like the Romneys.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Actually, it was just to piss them off. Obama's black - get the fuck over it already. He'll at least be in the list of "best presidents", if not THE best, in historical accounts. The racists just can't handle it.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)MrsBrady
(4,187 posts)are saying everything but saying...
"we don't like him because he's black."
that's what they mean, but they know they can't say that...
so they say that other bs instead.
They just don't like it that the black man might be helping them.
DFW
(54,437 posts)Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, who both had childhoods of hardship, both were accorded college on scholarships because they were smart and had determination, despite being poor. Rather than use their educations for immediate financial gain, they went into public service instead, and rose to the highest office in the land.
And yet the radical right STILL insists on preferring those who, as was so accurately said about W, "were born of third base and think they hit a triple." That's what you get when a third of the country watches Fox "News," listens to National Hate Radio, and actually believes what they hear.
CBHagman
(16,987 posts)To say nothing of his great uncle's:
[url]http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/06/ap_obama_grandfather_060609/[/url]
Service members in the family? Check. Just like many of us.
Second question to pose: "Did you know that under presidents who have been businessmen, the country has done less well economically?"
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-a-businessman-help-the-economy-for-presidents-the-answer-has-been-no/2012/10/19/3e96459e-17ab-11e2-9855-71f2b202721b_story.html[/url]