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WiffenPoof

(2,404 posts)
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:28 AM Aug 2016

Random thoughts on the Trump campaign...

How must the the other candidates feel who ran in the Republican primary? To watch what is happening and scratching their collective heads. Other than Cruz, any one of the others would have done better.

Will the rabid followers of Trump take on the role of martyrs? I have real fear concerning what will happen once Trump is defeated.

I'm convinced that those who are the most fervent supporters of Trump hate Hillary more than they like Trump.

I'm not convinced that Trump will make it to November.

I often wonder how close this contest would be if the GOP had a different nominee... Any of the others who ran. This based on how high Hillary's disapproval numbers are.

Finally... Will the results of this contest fundamentally change the Republican party?

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chillfactor

(7,576 posts)
1. Hillary's disapproval rating is going down....
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:41 AM
Aug 2016

and I do not think the GOP has a choice other than to stay with t-rump unless he quits by himself. I am looking forward to his speech today...see how many of the words he demolishes or cannot understand what they mean.....or even if he stays on script....and what he is going to do about manafort.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
2. Random responses. :) I'm not afraid of riots when Trump loses.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:57 AM
Aug 2016

At all. The populist movement on the right is fed by anxiety, but the economy continues to improve and most people are just not that anxious. If the Democrats consolidate enough power to create the big structural jobs programs she plans, as well as minimum wage increases, affordable college and other advances -- which will create hope for the future and distribute more wealth more equitably, most of the populist anxiety will calm down a bunch, even if terrorism and immigration issues continue.

Right now just getting a 2-year certificate to change from a dying field and earn a better income is out of the question for many, much less going back to college to finish up that degree. An economic concrete ceiling for many who have to support families.

The GOP leadership is very afraid of intra-party riots, however. Whether the current right wing power bases in and out of the party, very much including the huge dark-money forces, manage to keep control or to regain control before long is a huge question. Until big money's out of politics, I'm guessing they will manage to hold onto most control without ideology change, just singing different songs and throwing some bones to those snapping at them.

A different GOP candidate? The GOP has become the white power party, national voter demographics are against them in the presidential race, and they are involved both in an internal civil war and populist rebellion against the party leadership. Any of those candidates the conservative electorate rejected would have been heavily handicapped by all these realities and would probably have lost the presidency. We don't know the Trump effect on down-ballot races yet.

Imo, the irrational hate that fastened on Hillary as a focus is actually fairly irrelevant to us. Just that type's usual mild hate ( ) would have kept them from voting for her -- or for any Democrat if she were not on the scene, so the current blazing nastiness against Hillary and "non-whities"? It's consuming the right, not us.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
7. I already thought. :) There're major time factors
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:32 AM
Aug 2016

that can't just be wished away, and of course unanswered power questions, to the improvement of conditions holding down people who are not doing as well as they would. Still, the appearance of working for change in the right direction, if congress cooperates even somewhat, should help a lot. When it comes to national anxiety, hope for the future is a lot more important than a bird in hand.

I'm still not worried about dangerous levels of civil unrest, though. That's for people who feel they don't have much to lose, and even the miniscule percentage of people at Trump rallies typically have a lot.

liberal N proud

(60,335 posts)
3. We all know what Ted Cruz thinks
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:08 AM
Aug 2016

I also fear what the Trump supporters will do in the coming months before and after the election. What will they do on election day? That could be a real concern with Trump inciting them, they could go off on some sort of shooting spree.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
8. The Republican primary candidates were weak
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 07:59 AM
Aug 2016

At the beginning of the Republican primaries, GOP officials and pundits trumpeted what a deep and diverse field of candidates they were putting up. They crowed that their candidates were accomplished, from many different backgrounds and ethnically (!) diverse.

In fact, it was a terribly weak group of mediocre politicians (and Mr. Trump) with little to offer other than standard Republican talking points. The few actual possibilities, like Governor Kasich or Governor Gilmore, were never going to break out of that crowded clown car because Donald Trump's antics sucked up all the attention. After all, would you like to watch a cat fight or listen to an 8-point economic plan? The raucousness of those primaries meant that issues were ignored in favor of the spectacle of the week to week spitting contests.

In any event, none of those candidates could really distinguish themselves anyway since their policies were all merely variations of the traditional Republican talking points: cut taxes and spending except for the military, repeal Obamacare, defund Planned Parenthood and so forth. So the primary voters, who tend to be each party's hard-core base, went with the extremely loud but totally unqualified Donald Trump.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton had been serving our country for years, building a national organization and solid fund-raising base and working with the Democratic Party to advance some progressive ideas. She was clearly poised to be a very strong candidate. While Senator Sanders' campaign gave her some competition, he was never going to defeat her. What he really did was promote more progressive programs and pull Secretary Clinton more to the left. Earlier on, I supported his insurgency candidacy but as the primaries came to a close, it was obvious that she was going to win the nomination. As a lifelong Democrat, I knew that I'd be voting a straight ticket, anyway.

So, this is really just a long-winded way of agreeing with you, MichiganVote. Hillary Clinton would have trounced any one of those clowns from the Republican "deep bench."

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
9. One of our sons recently said, "Why would I vote for a republican? They
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 10:08 AM
Aug 2016

haven't offered anything different in the last 30 years-not socially, not economically and not in terms of candidates. Meanwhile, the country has been changing and they don't seem to notice that."

As an oft named millennial, I thought our son's remark very insightful for one so young (to me anyway). Afterall these are not the youth who lived through the assassinations, the impeachment attempt, the Nixon resignation, all these wars and about 3-4 recessions. Granted our bright youth expect that with a swipe of a button, conditions can change favorably for the country. Perhaps they're right.

The idea that HC could or would have been beaten by the repub. field is something I have noticed is being suggested more often here and there. Hence, my response.

To some who object to this idea, it suggests another form of sexism-meaning if the repub. field had not been so weak, a female candidate could not have won the primary let alone the WH. I agree with you that HC has a far more credible record of public service and it should be respected. This is no light weight in terms of service to the people of the US. Diminishing that record has certainly been a central theme by opponents.

I suppose its possible that some thinkers hope to promote this idea on the basis of some old emails (that have not resulted in damage despite the loss) of the Benghazi state dept. employees. Or of the former Clinton WH with its flaws. Or old GOP loyalty is rearing its head and using about anything to deny the inescapable truth-the GOP is not some musty antique sitting in the attic. It has been a dys-functioning political party that has ignored the basic ground game rules of play and survival in preference to the wants and whims of its elite players. That leaves out the needs of the many in place of the few. History has provided us with a long playbook on how well that works.

I did not vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary. I'm perhaps more dogmatic in that I voted for who I thought was the more experienced candidate for the presidency. Yet I'm not sorry if the BS group pushed the Clinton candidate and Dem. party toward a more progressive platform. And I like the fact that it motivated our younger citizens to participate. I think it would be very, very destabilizing to have two major political parties stand in rejection to what the people of the United States need and want. So now the die is cast and the Democrats will have to keep moving in place of remaining static as the GOP has.

I am not naive re: HC. Should she win, and I think she will, it will take time for people to get used to the idea of a female President. Yet I am hopeful and I believe she will do some good things. Great people, great presidents, and great congressional bodies don't come around that often. But Lordy, we sure have seen some bad ones.

So this is my long winded response to say I agree with you PJ-here's to Nov. 8th and all our hopes for the best!

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
10. The frantic pace of national and international affairs...
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 11:04 AM
Aug 2016

...will help people get used to the idea of a female president. After all, most Americans got used to an African American president.

Enjoyed our exchange, MichiganVoter. Your son sounds like a bright young man. I wonder where he got those qualities? (wink)

WiffenPoof

(2,404 posts)
12. What I find interesting....
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 11:20 AM
Aug 2016

Is that we are about to elect the first female president in our history and the phenomena of Trump has even overshadowed this historic event. You don't hear the fact that we are electing the first female nearly as much as you would expect.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
13. Although Hillary Clinton's election will be an historic first...
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 11:38 AM
Aug 2016

...it's almost secondary to the stark contrasts between the nominees. Don't misunderstand me: I'm thrilled that we're heading towards this epic event. I'm suggesting that Secretary Clinton has been in the national consciousness for decades and we already know her. She's been heading for this moment for many years. Donald Trump, on the other hand, is not as well known and his daily revelations are mind-bindingly amazing. I just cannot believe the things he says and does. More importantly, with each tweet or other weirdness, he shows how manifestly unfit he is for any position of authority. Frankly, I think he's insane and so does Keith Olbermann:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/keith-olbermann-gives-trump-a-clinical-sanity-test-and-the-results-are-worse-than-you-think/

The subconscious threads of thought generated by a woman president following an African American president will permeate the younger generations. My broadest hope is that Secretary Clinton's presidency is as successful as President Obama's and our nation will have healed many of the horrific wounds we've inflicted on ourselves as a country.

On another note, there are other historical aspects to this election and here's a link to a thread I wrote the other day:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028095947

Enjoy!

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