I just don't understand why we are supposed to kiss Jill Stein's ass

[bravenak]

It seems like everyday we have more supposed Democrats getting all miffed that we are not treating Jill Stein like the delicate fine china she is. Like, I totally thought that an election was a competition and we were supposed to take on all comers. I see her stupid ass ad every day where she attacks Hillary and never mentions Trump once. Hell, I thought that was her throwing down the guantlet, so to speak.

In my opinion, it is our DUTY as Democrats to give her exactly what she is asking for, a fight. And we know how to fight. She better learn how to fight if she wants to be in the ring boxing it out with the Democratic party. So, Fuck Jill Stein with her strange commercials and Trump helping ways. I was gonna ignore her but too many folks seem to think we need to treat her with kid gloves and blame ourselves for not being 'open' to third party spoilers. Um hai! Third party spoilers gave us dumb ass Dubya. No more of that whiney ass Sarandon crap. We need to win and crush all opposition. Including Dr. Jill Stein.

So, if anybody can clear up why we are supposed to help the competition or ignore them, cool. Let's have it then. Because I just cannot make sense of it.

( Funny thing. Everytime I do that political compass it says that I side with Jill Stein,lol. Whatevs )

[tonyt53]

1. We aren't. I will never stoop that low. She, and the Greens need to be exposed for what they are.

[bravenak]

3. The more I learn about her and them the less I can stand her and them

[Bob Buttons]

242. I totally agree

I first saw her during the convention, while she was outside with a megaphone. Seemed like it would be worth the time to look into her a little more. And it kept going downhill.

She doesn't actually think there's any link between vaccines and autism, yet she's said more than once that it's something we should look into. What?! Oh, right, pandering. I can't stand politicians who pretend they're above pandering (and criticize others for it) yet still pander themselves. So hypocritical.

Plus, how the heck are you just going to forgive (I'm presuming) billions of dollars in student loans without generating that revenue somewhere or just completely crashing the market? At least Bernie's ideas were grounded in reality. Hers are (surprise surprise) just her way of pandering to the youth vote. Joke's on her, most people I know in that age bracket are really into doing the legwork and researching these issues themselves. I think most of her supporters are just the folks who are really emotional or really inexperienced with how elections actually work. (No judgement on their part, I used to be one of those, y'know, around the first or second time I ever voted.)

[bravenak]

246. I noticed that too

She says whatever to pander to each group, even if the ideas totally conflict with reality. Like the wifi thing.

[Bob Buttons]

253. Wifi thing? Oh, this is gonna be good

Wow, I had to google that. So, that means she's against broadcast TV, satellites, GPS, uh, 50 million other things I'm not even considering. And, of course, those death machines we call microwaves, which have been killing millions for the past 70 years!

She just went from being an "unrealistic fringe candidate" to "raving lunatic" in my mind.

[bravenak]

254. See? She just killed it yo

Anti WIFI? Hate her now. Just too crazy.

[WhiteTara]

2. She is definitely a hypocrite

with her fur coat and US bashing and stealing everyone's platform. She doesn't have an original thought and I can't stand her...and haven't in ANY of her "presidential" runs.

[bravenak]

5. I barely noticed her last runs, but her phoney ass commercial got my attention

I think thats what she wants- attention. She has no clue how to get anything done.

[SusanCalvin]

11. Yep. She's an OPPONENT!

And what do you do with opponents? You defeat them soundly.

[bravenak]

20. Yep. Plus I find her strange

Kinda liked her before she started talking

[sarae]

94. hah!

I never had much of an opinion on her until MSNBC interviewed her at the Dem Convention.

She made wildly unrealistic promises, trashed Hillary and Trump (although she really seems to have it in for Hillary), and ingratiated herself with Sanders fans by praising Bernie in a fake, smarmy way. She spoke so fast that she didn't take any breaths, which was comical to watch. The overall impression was not flattering.

[bravenak]

99. I saw that. Started calling a weirdo a weirdo that day

She was amped. And weird as hell.

[calimary]

113. Ben Carson meets Sarah Palin.

I saw an interview with her in which she - um - expanded upon her fabulous theory that all we have to do is cancel the debt and we'd instantly have "the economy of our dreams."

Uhhhhh...

What's the word? "Derp!" ?

She talked in such maddening word-salad circles that I just started getting dizzy. Made my eyes cross. It was a 14-minute interview. I had to bail out about halfway through. And go find some Dramamine or something.

I'm sorry here, but I'm forced to conclude that anybody who thinks she makes a good case for being President - is as out-to-lunch (on Mars) as she is.

[bravenak]

117. Right?

Just plain delusional thinking in that one. And sadly? I think she believes herself.

[sarae]

188. There's something really off-putting about the way she talks.

She reminds me of a cult leader. Her eyes are a bit glassy and she seems overly intense, like she's trying to convince herself of what she's saying.

[Bob Buttons]

244. Ben Carson meets Sarah Palin. Universe implodes.

[calimary]

259. Welcome to DU, Bob Buttons!

Carson meets Palin. It's almost too excruciating to try to wrap one's brain around!

[Maru Kitteh]

178. Funny - she picked as her "VP" a guy who calls Sanders' supporters "white supremacists" and

called his campaign an "ideological prop" serving the "capitalist-imperialist settler state"

http://americablog.com/2016/08/jill-steins-vp-choice-thinks-bernie-sanders-capitalist-imperalist.html

[sarae]

189. WTF

what a strange VP choice when she's trying to peel off Sanders supporters...

[Bob Buttons]

245. That was the last time I paid any attention to the Green Party

... yup. As soon as I saw that, I realized it was safe to completely ignore the green party as long as Jill Stein is at the top of the ticket. Maybe even for a while after that.

[Lifelong Protester]

181. I don't like her opportunistic

pandering to Sanders' backers (is that an oxymoron? opportunistic pandering?)

[sarae]

192. Yeah, I agree with you...

it seems very disingenuous, especially when you combine it with the fact that her new VP choice has called Sanders supporters 'white supremacists' (someone just posted that a few replies above).

I know all politicians have to pander, to a degree, but it seems underhanded of Stein to sneak into the Dem convention (through FOX News!), be interviewed by MSNBC, and then stage a walkout. And it's a little ridiculous when she acts like Clinton is just as bad, if not worse, than Trump.

[Bob Buttons]

255. That's the message: Clinton = Democrat Trump

And it's a little ridiculous when she acts like Clinton is just as bad, if not worse, than Drumpf.

Sigh. Even CNN does it. Was listening to whoever filled in for Anderson Cooper on his Friday show, and they had some republican (forgot who already) start comparing Clinton's "lying to the mother whose son was killed in Benghazi" with Trump attacking the Khan family. Nobody felt the need to stop him and say "wait a second, these two things are in no way similar, let me list the reasons they're in entirely different ballparks." Even if someone really believes she lied to the grieving mother about the details of what went down, that is in no way comparable to attacking someone and saying "maybe she wasn't allowed to speak" (not even counting every other ridiculous thing he's said).

Seems that's the theme of this election cycle, doesn't it? Throw so many false equivalencies at everyone that at some point they stop noticing. "Trump is a horrible racist sexist xenophobe who can't be trusted with the nuclear codes, but I can't vote for Clinton, because, emails."

[WhiteTara]

19. I know several greens and they are

always throwing up their weak ass candidates.

[bravenak]

22. The ones I know do that. Then they don't bother actually voting.

I have no idea whats up with that.

[Squinch]

4. Because many who split their time between this and another site are campaigning for her.

[bravenak]

7. They are wasting their time. Better spent helping democrats win.

[MohRokTah]

8. ^^^This right here is why you are being asked to kiss Stein's (G-Moron) ass.

It's their way of passively campaigning for Stein on DU.

[Squinch]

27. Aren't they so slick? Who would ever have guessed???

[Andy823]

177. Yes they are pretty obvious

All those who "complain" she should not be attacked, are busters from that "other" site where they promote voting for her, and some even promote voting for Trump. Those who keep coming here from over there are just trying to cause more problems here, like they did during the primaries.

I guess trolls will be trolls.

[zappaman]

33. Exactly.

[Demsrule86]

61. That is true for sure.

I don't know why they even try.

[fleabiscuit]

144. Truth nt

[Maru Kitteh]

180. DING DING DING DING DING!

[MohRokTah]

6. I DESPISE Stein with the fiery passion of a thousand suns

I DESPISE her more than I DESPISE George W. Bush.

[bravenak]

9. Are her ignorant ass ads playing in your town too?

She makes me sick. But I cant hate her more than Bush because Katrina.

[SusanCalvin]

15. They're playing in TEXAS!

I saw three of them within a half hour.

And Democracy Now was a waste of air time this morning - both her AND her running mate.

[bravenak]

18. I keep wondering where the FUCK is she getting the money?

It plays CONSTANTLY!

[SusanCalvin]

23. That's what I want to know.

IIRC, they were credited to her campaign, not a superpac. If I'm remembering correctly, the source should be discoverable.

[bravenak]

25. Her FEC filings at the end of the month should tell us

If she doesnt get an extension.

[glennward]

182. But they will be smoothly laundered...From Russia with Love? nt

[bravenak]

185. We will see that once again the GOP is financing them, I'm sure

[Maru Kitteh]

202. If you look at the front page of RT at any time, it looks like a Stein commercial

Russian social media trolls are making a strong showing on any journalist blogs who dare to point out Comrade Stein's ties to Putin and RT. https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/762454342125228032

Not sure if this is a shift away from Russian trolling for Trump, or just a diversification of strategy.

My guess is they've figured out they've gotten as far as they can with propping up Trump directly, and have moved to a strategy of trying to shave points off of Hillary by propping up Comrade Stein, who spends so much time on Putin's RT network she probably has her own locker in the employee break room.

[lushluxe]

283. Koch Kash

I swear she is funded by a Koch PAC. And, as much as I would love to accuse her of taking it knowingly, she is too flat out stupid and would be easily fooled by some "Progressive Americans for the Future" fake named dark money portal.

fuck that poseur Jill Stein and her dangerous fascist bullshit propaganda

[Demsrule86]

65. The Greens have taken money to run against Democratic candidates before

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/more-gop-green-party-ties-found/nRt8C/

[SusanCalvin]

75. I never paid much attention before.

I know I should have.

But I only hated W. Trump terrifies me.

[Demsrule86]

114. Me too.

[Gothmog]

174. Rove financed Nader in 2000 and 2004

For some funny reason, Karl Rove funded Nader in 2000 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader's campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP's Laura Meckler headlined "GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads." She opened: "Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... 'Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,' Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: 'What's Al Gore's real record?' Nader says: 'Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.'" Meckler's report continued: "A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader's speeches." Bush's people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.

This is from the GOP bag of dirty tricks that worked once

[sherlocksistah]

207. opensecrets.org has the list of Stein contributors (some are pretty mysterious!)

so I'm researching some of them like "Zoom Global Money Transfer" which makes me wonder who would use that to be one of her top donors - Russia?
Top donor; AON Corp. , IBM, etc.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00033776&type=f

Also, dailykos has a great article: "12 Reasons NOT to Vote for Jill Stein or Ajuma Baraka"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/8/6/1557554/-Twelve-Reasons-NOT-to-Vote-for-Jill-Stein-Ajamu-Baraka

From my own experience, the Greens are impossible to reason with, very much against Clinton to the point of
sounding like Trump supporters. I see no reason to be nice, defend or otherwise do anything but fight them
to the bitter end.

[drm604]

266. Not to defend Stein. I think she's a Putin patsy, unwitting or otherwise,

but I don't think that listing indicates that Xoom was used to transfer the money. Instead, it indicates that the corporation "Xoom Global Money Transfer" itself contributed the money in the same manner as AON, IBM, etc. did.

[Demsrule86]

110. I do too...she is a spawn of satan

The Greens whine about money in our elections when their actions opened the money door..they elected Bush which gave us United...and now they want to help enact more GOP policy and apparently overturn Roe V Wade by giving the GOP three or more court picks...if they managed to get Trump elected we would lose Roe V Wade...fuck you Greens and Stein too...and any who support that wacko POS.

[Peacetrain]

10. She is running in opposition to our Democratic candidate..

She is running bloody awful commericals in Iowa.. sort of dismissing Trump as just words and attacking Hillary as the enemy..

I guess I am confused on how anyone who is supporting her would think that the Democrats would not hit back..

Hello???

[bravenak]

13. I know, right? That COMMERCIAL!

Cannot stand it. It might be okay to ignore her but I want to shut her down on election day. Keep her under 1 percent.

[Spazito]

12. She is just as much an opponent to the Democrats and the Democratic Presidential...

candidate and should be taken on as such, especially with her enabling trump at every opportunity. Those who are 'concerned' about criticism of her on DU are puzzling to me as well.

Good OP and a good question, bravenak.

[bravenak]

16. I agree, she is trying to subtly help Trump.

And in my opinion so are those who try to assist her campaign in any way.

[SusanCalvin]

21. I haven't seen those.

I guess the titles didn't get my attention.

Stein is an opponent just as much as Trump is. And I want to know where she's getting the money for those ads.

[Spazito]

41. Well, if the past is any indicator of the present...

her funding is coming primarily from the repubs just as it did when Nader ran.

[reACTIONary]

223. Those who are "concerned" are what's known as ....

..... "-concern trolls". By being "concerned" they can covertly promote that which cannot be openly advocated .

[MoonRiver]

14. Nobody told me I was supposed to support her, AND I DON'T.

[bravenak]

17. Good! Me neither!

[MoonRiver]

47. Great minds!

[Mass]

24. We' re not, but should we not focus on the real danger : the MEDIA and the GOP?

The MEDIA is currently the greatest danger because they confuse honesty and false equivalency. Otherwise, how can we understand the milquetoast reporting of media like the NYTimes and CNN, who are currently trying to push the meme that Trump is now a balanced person (because of 3 days where he did not insult veterans or republicans).

How is it possible that the Times today has an article explaining Trump likes fast food (he is a regular guy), implying that Hillary Clinton is not. Who seriously believes that Trump eats fast-food at McDo normally???

Or an article yesterday attacking Clinton as non natural for a gesture she has been doing for years.

Or CNN inviting a panel of Republicans and Independents leaning heavily for Trump (but no democrats???).

No, their business imperative to continue to report as if the race was balanced rises a conflict of interest here.

So, certainly Jill Stein is not qualified to be president, but this is by far the least of our problems. She is not going to get more than 2 or 3 %. The % of independents who may go to Trump because the media tells them that it is fine and because Trump and his cronies tall a story that goes unchallenged is the most URGENT problem, even if polls look rosy for now.

[bravenak]

28. Of course the media is a danger. But they are finally figuring out that Trump would fucking kill

their industry once we are all too broke under a Trump presidency to buy a damn thing. They have been doing it like this forever. It actually stopped working now that the candidates bypass the media and jawjack it on twitter. I honestly think that social media is the weapon we can use against the regular media in creative ways.
It has gotten to the point that they have to report on twitter constantly. Donald Trump is unexpectedly our best friend right now.

[Mass]

37. They are already out of the period where they had no options but to present Trump as a danger

They are now trying to move on and follow the GOP talking points again. This is dangerous.

[bravenak]

38. Good thing he cannot stfu to save his campaign

[Moonwalk]

127. Trump is eating at McDonalds and KFC because that's all he running out of money....

...he's losing as much if not more money thanks to this election than he's getting from donors. No one is booking his hotels, no one is buying anything from him outside of his hats, he's got all sorts of debts. And he's got that court case coming up. That can't be cheap.

I bet he ends up selling that purple heart he earned...gained...was given....

[pnwmom]

150. I think we can and do succeed in talking about more than one thing every day. n/t

[lonestarnot]

26. Who the fuck is Jill Stein?

LOL, no generic answer required. No answer at all required.

[NurseJackie]

29. "No more of that whiney ass Sarandon crap." --- Perfect!!!

[bravenak]

36. I bet ol Susan is just so bummed these days.

[betsuni]

30. Right? What is it with the "Leave Jill Stein alone! ...

Her polls are not seriously surging or throbbing, pay no attention to anything she says or does! Give her an absurd benefit of the doubt, just like Trump, because only Hillary 'Satan' Clinton has to play by the hardball or beanball or whatever rules!"

[bravenak]

34. Seriously.

It's like they want us to let her rant and bullshit around sans comment. Well, how fair is that? I have things to say too, just like she does. I think she's a weirdo. She likes Putin and he's weird too.

[MineralMan]

31. Frankly, we should simply ignore Jill Stein.

She will not play a significant role in the 2016 election. Those who would vote for her would never vote for Clinton, so they don't really matter to the Clinton campaign.

Now, the Libertarian Party is another matter. It helps the Clinton campaign by stealing votes from Trump, primarily. If it does well, it will ensure a substantial electoral college victory for Clinton. Any other party on the right will do the same, if one manages to get started in time.

As I have been predicting for some time, I believe that Clinton will win with 350+ electoral votes, in large part due to bleeding off of Trump voters to third parties. That could flip some states, like Arizona and Georgia, which are normally solidly Red.

[bravenak]

32. I agree with you mostly

If her ad was not getting on my nerves constantly I'd still be ignoring her like always.

[MineralMan]

35. Just remember what the French say:

C'est pour rire! Jill Stein is good for a laugh. So are her ads.

[Scruffy1]

208. Another reason i'm glad I don't watch TV.

But you are so right about ignoring her. Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig loves it. Seriously I don't think sthat the Green Party will ever be a real political party because they have no real ideology or plan. Historically, political parties evolved around issues and regional differences. I have yet to see anything other than vote for me because were not Dems. Where I live their are quite a few lefties and not one of them is interested in the Green Party. The SWP even has an office in my neighborhood, and i know quite a few dedicated anarchists. In order to recruit members you have to have at least a philosophy not just vague positions. Stein is just and a big ego trip like many who who pick a small pond so they can be a big fish instead of one of us. Not to hard when most of your members are scrambling to survive and you are financially independent. There is a reason she won't show her taxes. I really like Winonah LaDuke, but I think she got used by them the last time around.

[Maru Kitteh]

203. Ignoring a candidate who is running a good portion of her campaign out of Putin's RT network

seems unwise to me.

I don't think overconfidence, or ignoring this woman who is so comfortable playing footsie with Putin and Trump would serve us well.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. LEAVE JILL STEIN ALLLLOOOOOONNNNNEEEE!

Who the fuck are these people?

[bravenak]

40. I know

[AgadorSparticus]

108. Obvious disruptors who think they are so slick.

[Ken Burch]

281. No...just don't waste time with bad strategy.

Devoting energy to attacking Stein simply doesn't help us electorally. It can't persuade people currently supporting Stein to vote HRC, and it doesn't impress anyone else.

Anything we do in the fall should be judged by the question "will this hold onto or GAIN votes for the Democratic ticket?". A campaign focused heavily on the discredited tactic of trying to badger and intimidate disaffected progressives(a very tiny group this year)into voting for our ticket by bashing Stein fails that test.

It's not about treating the Green candidate like she's a special snowflake, it's about running a WINNING campaign.

I don't like Stein. I wish she weren't running. But wasting time going after her when we should be(as the ticket is)focused on fighting Trump doesn't help us. And in any case, she's doing a more than adequate job of discrediting herself.

Best to just pretend she isn't there and to make positive appeals to progressive voters(as we have been doing)on how much better our program is than in previous years.

Why do some people have so little confidence in our ability to elect our ticket ON ITS MERITS?

What does anyone think going scorched-earth on Stein will actually accomplish?

[Gothmog]

42. I see no reason to be nice to Stein or the green party

[bravenak]

43. Same here. They are not useful to us in any way

[Gothmog]

173. Like Nader, Stein is trying to help Trump win

Stein and Nader somehow believe that helping the GOP win helps their cause but that theory is crazy. Nader got W elected and as a result, we had the Iraq war, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the Citizens United decision.

[LowerManhattanite]

44. She's being passive-aggressively (and sometimes not so passively) pimped around here...

...by the folks you would expect.



Many are on various disingenuous “Why worry about her?”/ “Why are you alienating true progressives?”/ “Can we NOT be so mean talking about her in spite of her clearly undermining the Democratic candidate?” rips around here while off at The Cuckoo Ranch close to 90% of 'em are championing her.

The tut-tutting and concern-trolling over turning the cannons her way (as she IS actively campaigning against the Dem candidate) is pretty transparent.

The people I see engaging in it should be ashamed of themselves...but you have to have shame for that to happen I guess.

[bravenak]

45. Best post of the thread!!!!

The part about the Kookoo ranch? My feelings exactly. Since I posted this another one has gone up, so, I guess it's going to keep going for a while. Tut tut! Smh

[Squinch]

58. Those "true progressives" have turned out to be the most bat shit crazy conservatives I have

ever encountered.

And all of them chastised us at one time or another for our lack of "progressive" purity.

[Demsrule86]

116. wonderful post and completely true...many not all who come here and champion her are

her supporters at the other site.

[rbrnmw]

46. I just wish they would stay at Jackass Laughingstocks

and leave us be

[bravenak]

51. Me too. They cant cause we are more interesting

It looks boring as hell over there

[rbrnmw]

54. very true

[Demsrule86]

68. No doubt that is a boring site. nt

[SunSeeker]

268. +1

[NurseJackie]

48. Here's the deal ... when someone says "Be nice to Jill Stein" (or any other variation of that)...

... what they mean is they're really not on-board with Hillary, and this is just a rule-skirting way to express their dissatisfaction. It's pretty obvious to me what they're doing, but when challenged on it, those people generally retreat to a doe-eyed "who me?" stance by arguing that it "helps the party if the Dems were more like the Greens".

It's impossible for me to tell if it's limited dissatisfaction with Hillary personally, or whether it's also left-over animosity because Hillary got the nomination instead of Bernie ... or whether it's some other emotion entirely different. It's definitely emotion-based and lacking in all strategy, logic, or realism.

I've never been good at mind-reading or determining the precise nature of what motivates people to do things. But even if the actual motivation is a mystery, what they're aiming for, and the desired outcome is a bit more obvious.

Fuck Jill Stein, fuck the Naderites, fuck the Greens. They're toxic.

[bravenak]

60. Yep.

This is my new response to that kinda shit. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2351080

[SusanCalvin]

64. Bingo. nt

[Demsrule86]

76. Some who start the Jill Stein threads have posted in other places

that they will never vote for Hillary...it is an attack against the Sec. Clinton and keeps them within the rules maybe.

[NurseJackie]

87. I have a good idea what motivates people, but I'll refrain from making direct accusations.

Mainly, because I could be mistaken (unlikely, but possible) so I think it's important for everyone to look beyond the facade of the "can't-we-just-get-along-with-the-Greens" posts. People need to look deeper and consider more than just the words, but also consider the outcome.

I'm not much of an expert of the other places you refer to, but you do make an excellent point. For those who are inclined to wander the corridors of the anti-Hillary sites, I imagine it would be easy to make associations that explain the pro-Green and pro-Stein posts.

[Demsrule86]

118. This is why I don't name names either.

It is not my place. Any who are interested can check it out for themselves.

[Turin_C3PO]

109. Exactly.

I won't go easy on Stein. I think some posters are sincere in their postings (worried that the baby is thrown out with the bathwater in insulting the left wing, etc.) but I also know many more are just trolling around. The Green Party only pops up every 4 years to screw the Dem candidate and Stein voters are, at minimum, misguided or privileged and at worst, terribly selfish.

[AgadorSparticus]

126. Exactly! Another tactic is "be civil" to Jill stein. It is another

Passive aggressive way of defending her and censoring speech here in DU.

[R B Garr]

176. Exactly! And more rule-skirting is pretending to critique Hillary by "reminding"

people that lots of people hate Hillary, like their little "reminders" that they know a co-worker/neighbor/cashier/relative/etc. who "hates" Hillary. So obvious.

Great post.

[AgadorSparticus]

184. That too! So obvious!

[redstatebluegirl]

49. Because some of the delegates were holding up her signs at the convention.

Sarcasm.....for sure!

[bravenak]

63. Prolly Nina Turner

[emulatorloo]

112. Even Nina ran like hell from Stein!

I give her some credit for saying she's a Dem and not at all interested in that Green crap.

[bravenak]

119. Did she? Lol, cant even get Nina, lol

[emulatorloo]

123. Yeah, Stein offered Nina the Green Party VP spot.

Nina gave the polite version of Hell No. Said she's a democrat and will keep working in the Democratic Party

There were some stories saying she was considering it, but Joy Reid said Nina never considered it for a minute.

So then Jill had to go pick that whack-job Bernie hating VP guy. I swear she has the poorest judgement, just crazy the shit she does.

[bravenak]

125. Good. I never saw Nina as the type to run to the greens. But she was getting on my last nerve

for a while there.

[emulatorloo]

129. Uh-huh

Sanders primary supporter here, IMHO she hurt Bernie's chances way more than she ever helped. A lot of red meat and preaching to the choir. Not much in the way of trying to broaden Bernie's coalition beyond the rabid HRC-hating GD: P types

[bravenak]

131. Agreed.

She and Cornel should not be spokespeople for the next progressive campaign.

[Gothmog]

175. Nina Turner was wise to turn down Stein's offer

Being on the Stein ticket would kill Turner's career as a democrat.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. We absolutely do NOT have to

And I'm getting really annoyed with the 'Jill isn't the enemy posts' which is just a backhanded way to spread the little green foe's name all over the internet.

They can stand down until November 9th.

[bravenak]

55. Seriously. Think they slick but it's stupid at this point

[SusanCalvin]

71. Agree, Jill is so the enemy!

How else? So is any other presidential candidate who can siphon votes from Hillary.

[Hiraeth]

52. You're not.

whatevs.

[bravenak]

57. Oh goody

Tell ya buddies then, thx, I like them so much, love them totes!

[bravenak]

56. Blah

She is a green. I am a Dem. We are in competition and she is going to FAIL

[cwydro]

69. Enjoy your stay here.

I think you may have blundered into the wrong site.

[Demsrule86]

59. 1000000 + This is exactly what I think

They can take the Jill Stein is Ok stuff to the other site.

[bravenak]

70. PLEASE! Please let them take it over there where it belongs

[AlbertCat]

62. I just don't understand why ...

.....we are supposed to kiss anyone's ass

[bravenak]

66. Me neither

[AlbertCat]

67. Me neither

Well, you brought it up.

Keep a-stirrin'!

[bravenak]

73. Of course I brought it up. I wanna Know why we should be ass kissers

Makes no sense

[mcar]

72. K&R

[Coolest Ranger]

74. Jill is nothing but a cray cray

candidate who will only be President in the Mirror Mirror Universe.

[bravenak]

78. Even there I think they will Pass on her special type of cray cray

[ismnotwasm]

77. She's an opportunistic anti-vaxxer

With her double-speak. That's all I need to know. Fuck her.

[bravenak]

80. Thats crazy

Anti vaxx shit pisses me off.

[ismnotwasm]

86. It infuriates me

What she did was use weasel words in an attempt to get the anti-vax assholes support--It's fucking disgusting man.

There is already a pertussis outbreak in my area.

[bravenak]

89. And she's a doctor? Wtf?!?!

[NastyRiffraff]

157. Yeah, I remember when doctors were supposed to be smart

then along came Ben Carson, and Jill Stein.

[sheshe2]

79. For the most part I am ignoring her.

However, she is the enemy just like tRump is.

[bravenak]

82. Me too

I do despise her commercial though

[sheshe2]

90. I haven't seen the commercial.

Not sure if it is playing here. I don't watch much TV.

I did catch the Olympics though~ WOW!

[bravenak]

92. Damn! Strong!!!

[aikoaiko]

81. Reparations and affirmative actions?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1198520

[IMG][/IMG]

[bravenak]

85. Did you not see 'IN THEORY'?

In practise I am voting for Hillary and was voting for Hillary then too. My point was that in 'theory' ideological purity is so very nice to dream of based on our own needs and wants and ideology. In practise we aint getting everyting we want. Now, let us not refight the primary threads.

[aikoaiko]

104. Sure, but your OP wasn't just about voting.

You asked why should we kiss her ass and you said, "We need to win and crush all opposition. Including Dr. Jill Stein. "

To answer your question, it might be good to not trash/crush/antagonize someone who talks about reparations while we still make the case for voting for Hillary.

[bravenak]

106. That post you dug up was from THE PRIMARY SEASON

Shit done got real and I was discussing Theory

[aikoaiko]

111. I still think your Feb 2016 thoughts are good reason to not treat Greens as the enemy.

The support some issues we should. I don't think DU or the Democratic party is served well by DU becoming a Green Party hate site.

YMMV

[bravenak]

115. They are the competition. We defeat our competition, we do not hold their hands and play

pitty pat just because of platform. The greens have done jack shit for my civil right but say good sounding shit. No accomplishments. They can kick rocks.

[Demsrule86]

120. I don't...we are in GE mode and the Greens and Stein are making every effort to elect

the orange menace.

[jack_krass]

133. LOL good find!

[Me.]

83. Jill Stein in Moscow criticized US

“Green party Jill Stein, who has expressed skepticism about the safety of vaccinations and wifi, has found another thing in the world that she finds dangerous: America.

And Stein decided to go to Moscow last winter to share her concerns.

And, what do you know, she’s happy to report she found an audience that agrees with her!

Stein’s report from Moscow is in the video below. She went to attend a conference hosted by the Russian state propaganda organ. In a sign of the importance Moscow put on the conference, Putin himself joined Stein and other attendees for dinner.”…

http://americablog.com/2016/08/jill-stein-moscow-criticized-us-human-rights-said-nothing-russian-human-rights.html

[Me.]

84. More

…”With Red Square as her backdrop, Stein suggested that we need to “replace a US policy of domination with a way forward based on respect, collaboration, international law and human rights.”

In fact, according to the video Stein published, Putin agrees with her:

Stein has nothing negative to say about Russian foreign policy, or Russia’s horrific lack of respect for human rights — Putin has journalists and other opponents killed. And we all know the way Putin treats LGBT people. Yet Jill Stein had nothing to say about any of that. She was too focused on criticizing the US at a conference put together by the Kremlin’s propaganda agency.

PS And for any of you feeling the Bern, Stein’s VP thinks Bernie Sanders is a white supremacist capitalist imperialist.”

[bravenak]

88. Omg.

[BainsBane]

91. I don't think we should be giving her attention

and with it name recognition. She's not a serious candidate, so why treat her like one?

[bravenak]

96. I only started noticing her when her ad started playing 24-7

This was a big Bernie state and I think it's best to fight her if shes fighting for votes here. I really have no idea how she polls here since polling sucks here.

[Demsrule86]

122. When you run ads in swing states you need to be pummeled. nt

[BainsBane]

164. Where is she getting the money for advertising?

[R B Garr]

179. Great question. That's what we should really be talking about.

I hope someone uncovers the sources soon, because that is the real story.

[stopbush]

93. Worrying about Jill Stein is like worrying about the won-loss record

of the dodgeball team at a local community college: it only matters if you think it matters.

[bravenak]

101. Hey! I love dodge ball!

No really. Its the ads. Constantly playing those ads. Be nice if she ran out of money.

[AgadorSparticus]

95. I read also the claim about "party unity"& then going around hiding behind the civility card

Please be civil. And then they target only posts about stein. They are pretty obvious disruptors.

[bravenak]

102. Obvious as all get out

[LiberalFighter]

97. I sure as hell ain't kissing that ass.

And we are allowed to oppose her on this site.

[bravenak]

103. Good thing too cause I oppose her.

[Turin_C3PO]

98. She's a narcissist and delusional.

I'll refrain from insulting her supporters too badly, but I sure as hell think they're being selfish.

[bravenak]

105. She irritates me cause she is lying

[Gman]

100. Screw Jill Stein. Anyone now running against HRC is enemy

and should be treated as such.

[bravenak]

107. Yep

[happydaze]

121. I don't see the "Green Party" as a threat. I see it

as a challenge and hopefully the voice that keeps the Dems Platform in play for progressive change. There's an awful lot of Republicans coming into our party and a ton of money from the corporate/ military/ wealthy elites that are getting up close and personal benefits for sitting in rooms and dinner events a handful at a time.

I've noticed that since the Stein ad, Clinton is now highlighting her economic plan... Jill says 20 million jobs, Hillary says 10million new good paying jobs (the 10 is more likely conceivable in the first 100 days with an economic stimulus plan). They both still say free college (basically), but their is dispute over how to alleviate the 1.3 trillion in debts already accumulated. One says Medicare for All, the other says Public Option and lower Medicare for 55+. The reality is, state by state that fight is where the "all" will win first. public Option is a good way to unburden Americans and transition people into the system... And most Dr's want a sane system of healthcare, not this crazy crap occurring now (plus free college means more Dr's and nurses and not being in the hole 1/2
A million to pay back).

Politics is a rough sport. She's appealing to progressive Dems and independents who favored Bernie. She could be a real threat to Hillary... But id rather hear the two or them debate policy on a stage than Trump and Clinton. I wouldn't be surprised in Gary Johnson pulled out a bigger vote total than Trump at this point.

BTW, it should be pointed out to disaffected Dem voters that Gary Johnson is in NO way reflective of any progressive values other than less war intervention. He's pro-TPP (unlike all other candidates - as they say now). He's pro de-regulation of corporations and wall st. He's anti-tax at federal levels. He's libertarian and that is like having a Somalian country.

But honestly, wouldn't you rather watch a debate between two women who have brains, think about policy details, have a more "inclusive" American party (I didn't realize how diverse the Greens have started to become). We may just be able to wipe away the Republican Party this year!!! Could you imagine if policy debate in the congress was between Greens and Dems? Damn, I think the American People would for sure win by electing left types of parties.

If Dems and Greens were working on Trade Deals that effected the US and the world, they might actually do it in the light of day, consider solutions that work for people within and in these other countries who tend to lose out their human rights.

I personally don't like how this entire GE has devolved into "I'm less scary than the other guy". Bernie woke quite a few folks up. Policy issues were a driving force... And he didn't spend time, energy, or money on trying to lay waste to an opponent on a personal level.

Someone says she had a fur coat, Hillary showed up to an economic justice forum in a $12,000 Armani jacket... It's just stupid crap that makes many people tune out.

[bravenak]

124. The Greens ars irrelevant because we DENOCRATS already possess all of their decent qualities.

Once folk go anti vaxx I have nothing more to do with them because that is DANGEROUS to the health of my children. We dont need Greens to keep us honest, they already have isses with ignoring human rights violations in Putins Russia while castigating the US so Please forgive me if I do not take their ideological purity seriously.

[happydaze]

191. Well the first is a lie, she has said NO. The second sounds

like u want to start a war with Russia. Should we just go thru the list of many atrocities our country has caused upon the world?

The idea of a patriarchal society has got to die out and the leaders need to be rid of.

[bravenak]

194. What ridiculous drivel

[happydaze]

204. Not at all... But you don't really want to listen or debate.

I'm not going to bother typing on a phone a response of detail.

[Demsrule86]

156. NO way Stein should be in the debates.

I have no interest in working with the Green traitors for any reason. They are our competition and have always attacked Democrats.

[happydaze]

193. I'd certainly rather the two parties in contention be Dems and Greens!

Or are you saying the past 8 yrs of republican obstruction, tea party Astro-turfing antics, birther racist waste of time and energy has been productive?

[Demsrule86]

209. The Greens are not a serious party thus have no

say in anything...they are helping Trump and we don't need three candidates beating up on our nominee...Trump and Clinton...because the 3rd party candidates are a bad joke.

[happydaze]

210. Last I looked, it's a 4 party race and the way Trump is heading

Gary Johnson will beat out his numbers. The Tepublican party may just wither on away.

[Fla Dem]

282. It is not a 4 party race.

Yes the outlier parties MAY be on the ticket in some states. The Green party is on the ballot in 27 states. The Libertarian party in 33 states. You have to be competitive to be in a race. They are not competitive. What they are are spoilers.

This is the Bloomberg poll from August 5th - 8th.

Libertarians and Green Party have combined 13% of the vote. When they are polled with Clinton and Trump, they pull 6% from Clinton, 4% from Trump and 3% from undecideds. Clinton still leads Trump by 4%, in other polls more than that.





By the way Rasmunnsen poll is a right leaning poll and generally shows poorer results for the Democratic candidate.

[Bob Buttons]

258. Bernie made waves that we'll feel for several election cycles

I still can't shake the feeling that Bernie would've gone down in the books as one of the great historical presidents, looking back 50 years from now, had he won. Then again, who knows what would be going on now if he had won the primary... I think there's something to be said about Clinton being more of a centrist and more inclined to change her views to match what most folks in the party are leaning toward (not necessarily a bad thing, just a different style -- "voice of the people" vs "what I think is in everyone's best interests&quot .

But one thing's for sure -- tons of people had the impression that the only way to run a real national campaign was to take corporate money, and it definitely felt like democrats had lost their edge when it came to pushing for a real progressive agenda. I think we're getting a much clearer vision of who this "silent majority" really is this go round. (Yeah, yeah, that also includes the crazy bubble people who go to Trump rallies.)

So, now there's a new roadmap for future candidates to follow. Just, ya know, too late to do much good this time.

[bravenak]

134. She is nothing like Bernie. Nothing!

[Demsrule86]

137. Stein is nothing like Bernie

She wants to elect Trump and is running ads in swing states. Bernie cares about this country and endorsed the only person who can stop Trump...one can not equate rat fucking Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders who is a patriot when all is said and done. He cares about this country Jill Stein does not, and she is a Russian puppet too it seems.

[Fla Dem]

172. No they do not.

They may want a party that speaks directly to their needs, ideas and morals, but they do not want a singular, unified 3rd party.
Even the 3 "major" 3rd parties don't have a unifying POV.

"Third Parties"
Libertarian Party
Green Party
Constitution Party

America First Party
American Conservative Party
American Freedom Party
American Solidarity Party
America's Party
Black Riders Liberation Party
Christian Liberty Party
Citizens Party of the United States
Communist Party USA
Freedom Socialist Party
Humane Party
Independent American Party
Justice Party
Modern Whig Party
National Socialist Movement
New Black Panther Party
Objectivist Party
Party for Socialism and Liberation
Peace and Freedom Party
Prohibition Party
Reform Party of the United States of America
Socialist Action
Socialist Alternative
Socialist Equality Party
Socialist Party USA
Socialist Workers Party
Transhumanist Party
United States Marijuana Party
United States Pacifist Party
United States Pirate Party
Unity Party of America
Veterans Party of America
Workers World Party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

[wryter2000]

130. We're not. Eom

😄

[think]

132. Many Green party members might vote for down ticket Democrats.

Everyone knows that Green party members are much more aligned with Democrats on the issues than they will ever be with the GOP.

If one's goal is to keep rivals that have similar views on issues close but not make them mortal enemies perhaps a more nuanced approach might be more effective in the long run.

Hillary Clinton is leaps and bounds ahead of where the Greens will ever be. She has enormous support both within the system and financially. Hillary has had every advantage in the election in comparison to Stein and the Greens.

Stein's opinions and dissent may be annoying but she is not nor will she be a threat in this election.

She and members of the Green party might not be complimentary but they are coming from a tough position. Being supporters of the much stronger candidate it would be good to be less visceral in response. Democrat should recognize their greater advantage and try to be more respectful of the fact that others feel alienated rather than insult and denigrate them. Take the high road as it would be.

That doesn't mean kissing anyone's ass . Nor does it mean one shouldn't point out differences and express disappointment in alternate views and opinions. Just don't go ape shit on them for difference in opinion on their preferred candidate for president. Calling a Green party member and their candidate a Trump supporter is a sure fired way to make sure they want to have nothing to do with the Democratic party and their candidates.

So while the supporters of the Green party might not be congenial and supportive of all Democratic candidates they still might plan to vote for SOME Democratic candidates. They are highly unlikely to vote for GOP candidates who they have NOTHING in common with.

Just something to consider....

[bravenak]

138. You know what? No.

No no no. I am done treating them like fine delicate china and taking the 'high road' while their candidate calls the Dem evil and ignores the dangers of Donald Trump. If they wanna help elect trump? They are also my enemies.

[bravenak]

142. Yes. They can fuck off with their Naderesque bullshit. Their shit does not HELP.

It gives us shit like Gwb

[bravenak]

149. I been done said 'fuck the highroad'

[bravenak]

153. Yaas. I'd not want the greens or pigs to think im too stuck up to rumble in the low road

[Demsrule86]

148. OK

fuck off Green traitors...you will not elect another GOP ...and this time the one you are 'helping' is a dangerous lunatic.

[Demsrule86]

141. That is not what they say... anyway.

And we won't win down ticket if we don't win the presidency that is the way it is...thus when they attack our nominee...they deserve any abuse heaped on their green troll heads.

[jack_krass]

135. It's an outrage I tell you. AN OUTRAGE!!!! I'm so outraged

[Wibly]

136. More hurt than help

No one has asked you to kiss Jill Stein's ass. And if you keep using this type of school yard language and hyperbole you are going to spoil it for Clinton.
You're doing more to hurt Clinton than help.

[Demsrule86]

146. No yo have that wrong...Stein is running ads to spoil it for Clinton in Swing states.

[pnwmom]

155. bravenak has been doing more to help Clinton than most DUers. And her language

regarding Jill Stein is well deserved.

[Wibly]

284. Maybe

But if this poster Bravenak keeps acting like a Trumpette, he's just going to muddy the difference between Clinton and Trump.
You don't beat a gutter snipe by becoming a gutter snipe. That just makes you another gutter snipe.

[bravenak]

158. Wah!

We're adults. We can handle the fucking word 'ass'.

[Fla Dem]

140. There should be NO Jill Stein promoting here on DU. There are plenty of other sites

where people can do that to their heart's content.

We don't need to hear about her. She is insignificant. The only reason she is getting any traction at all is because she has repeatedly pleaded with the Bernie supporters to join her campaign. Also the media needs to create drama. Right now the horse race they thought they were going to have between Clinton/Trump is imploding. So what to talk about? An obscure candidate who has run in the past and never generated any publicity.



The Green Party has never been a factor, except maybe in 2000 when Ralph Nader may have cost Al Gore the election.

[AgadorSparticus]

183. +1

[Blue_Tires]

147. +1

[lark]

154. Clear and simple - she is the enemy.

When she put out an ad against Hillary but didn't mention Trump, she crossed the line. It's now game on. She's not a progressive, she's willing to give the country to trump out of spite against Hillary. That's not progressive, it's regressive and stupid to boot. Her anti-vax stance is also heinous and destructive. Her talk of Bernie is just that, talk. It means nothing and she obviously doesn't get Bernie or she wouldn't have put out that ad. The only reason she's mentioning Sanders in a good light is she's trying to peel off his supporters. Speaking as a Sanders supporter, Jill Stein, you are no Bernie and aren't fit to shine his shoes. He cares about the country and she only cares about herself.

[bravenak]

162. Yep

She is trying to be Bernie and failing at it. Jill is no Bernie.

[DemonGoddess]

159. For me, with the commercials?

It's the principle of the thing. She took Hillary's PRIMARY platform and used it in the commercial as her own. Then turned around and bashed Hillary with her own platform. The platform we all WANT, FFS.

As far as "being nice" to Greens? My sister is a Green. We don't talk about politics at all. If we did, I'd never speak to her. She, and all the other Greens I've met are inflexible, and only hear what they want. What the fuck do I have to be nice to that kind of close mindedness for??

[bravenak]

160. Thank you, exactly how I feel

[workinclasszero]

163. Screw Stein she's a howl at the moon lunatic

Anti vax, anti wifi??

And a tool of dictator Putin.

[bravenak]

165. Whoa?!? Anti wifi?

Oh fuck her for real

[workinclasszero]

166. Yup

Jill Stein thinks WiFi is dangerous
8/3/16 4:08pm by Anhvinh Doanvo

http://americablog.com/2016/08/jill-stein-liberal-pseudo-scientific-demagogue.html

[bravenak]

168. I hate her more now

[hrmjustin]

167. The concern for Stein's feeling here is amusing.

[bravenak]

169. Sure are

[Geronimoe]

170. One or two degree C rise in Global Warming

Is it worth it? Yes. an Obama and Hillary Presidency is worth a couple of degee Celsius rise. Heck I'm old and will be dead before all of the glacial ice melts. I might think differently is I were in my 20s or 30s.

[hughee99]

171. I think the political compass shows you as siding with a candidate you dislike because it assumes

you'd base your vote on your beliefs as opposed to basing your support on loyalty to a specific political party.

[CajunBlazer]

195. You meant to say that he is basing his vote....

.....on what is realistically better for the country rather than throwing away his vote on a candidate who is totally unqualified to be President and has absolutely no chance of being elected.

How can anyone in good conscious vote for a candidate who has virtually no management or government experience to be President of the United State and while doing so convince themselves that they are doing their best to protect those who will be defenseless under Trump administration?

[hughee99]

232. His issue seems to be a genuine dislike for Jill Stein, which is fine.

My point is that people don't always vote for the candidate they're most closely aligned with, and I guess on some occasions, they don't even like them. Voting isn't all about ideology and sometimes it may not be about ideology at all, but (as you pointed out) pragmatism. That's why I don't put a lot of stock in where someone falls on the political spectrum, because what they believe and how they vote aren't often the same thing.

[CajunBlazer]

276. True for most people, but not for those who consider themselves idealogically pure

Zealot seem to opt to vote for the person who best represents their ideological beliefs, rather than the most qualified person. How else can anyone explain those who say they will Jill Stein who isn't even qualified to be mayor of her small town.

[hughee99]

280. I think some people believe that they aren't going to get better candidates until people vote for

the person they believe is best for the job. They do what they can, as idealists, to follow through on that belief and have no control over what everyone else does. While this may sound like a good idea, if everyone did this, we'd end up with lots of candidates that each only receive a relatively small number of votes.

I'm not saying I have a problem with making a pragmatic vote, it's the way the real world works, but I'm not going to denigrate someone who chooses to do what they truly believe is the right thing to do (even if I think it's the wrong thing).

[backscatter712]

186. I'm inclined to dismiss the Greens.

With Jill Stein playing footsie with woo-mongers like anti-vaxxers and homeopaths, and now the "WiFi is eating your brain" flakes, I suffer from a complete failure to take the Greens seriously.

The way I see it, Jill Stein's running a vanity ticket. She's in it to sell books and T-shirts.

As far as spoiler potential goes, well, Trump's got it far worse - the worst we've got is the Greens and Bernie-or-Busters, and they're not able to make enough of a splash to be a spoiler.

Now the NeverTrumpers on the other hand... Well, since mainstream GOP politicians and pundits are jumping ship, I'm thoroughly enjoying the show!

[bravenak]

197. I usually dismiss them too

But I really wanna know how she can afford all these ads

[backscatter712]

205. Good question...

Looking here: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00033776

Her official fundraising hasn't even broken one million bucks. Maybe some group is funding the Greens from a superPAC to try to ratfuck Hillary... Could be Republicans, could be Russians...

[Koinos]

211. Probably both Republicans and Russians.

Both Trump and Stein seem to have no problems with the way Russia is governed or the way Russia violates human rights. The Russians see Stein as a another way to defeat NATO.

[Starry Messenger]

187. She and her husband are worth $3.9 million and have stock holdings in Merck, among others.

She'll be fine if Trump wins and I'm guessing many of her supporters will too. Middle-class tantrum, hold their breath, but the rest of us suffocate.

[bravenak]

196. I noticed that many who dont care if trump wins are in a position to be fine if he does

[BainsBane]

214. Exactly

and would probably enjoy seeing the rest worse off.

[bravenak]

220. Yep. Make them feel 'better' than us again. Tired of it.

[MrScorpio]

190. Count me in! nt

[bravenak]

200. Yay!nt

[Bobbie Jo]

198. Apparently, we're not supposed to pick on

her supporters, either. Else we run the risk of driving them away.

Or some such....

[bravenak]

199. Away where? I do not mind them moving on to Greener pastures

Be nice if they were away for us to lure back. They are helping the gop. Nuff said.

[Thinkingabout]

201. I do not owe the Green party any loyalty, Democrat all the way.

[BainsBane]

215. If they are her supporters

They are already away.

[wysi]

206. We're not

She sucks. EOM.

[bravenak]

228. Good cause yr right!

She sucks

[Gore1FL]

212. We aren't. But that is no reason to drive away her voters for down-ballot races through hostility.

As President Obama says "you can disagree without being disagreeable."

[Lunabell]

263. I totally agree

She certainly isn't a credible candidate, but her voters are young and disillusioned Bernie supporters. They need to be educated not castigated.

[guillaumeb]

213. My take on the issue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028083362

[D23MIURG23]

216. Fuck Stein.

I'm tired of this meme that the fringe ideologue candidates are the "good guys" and people like Clinton who could actually be trusted to govern a country are merely "less evil".

Stein makes no sense and has a running mate with frontal lobes made out of scrambled eggs. I would not trust her to govern a McDonalds. I understand why Hillary isn't bothering to acknowledge her existance, but it would be really satisfying to a super pac tar and feather her.

[bravenak]

217. Yep.

I sgree, and oh shit her running mate is nutz

[PatrickforO]

218. Of course you side with Jill Stein on the political compass. So do I.

So do many Dems, I daresay. To my mind, there are a couple problems with Stein as a viable candidate, and with the Greens as a whole.

1. Stein really likes the socio-economic issues I like - subsidized childcare, early childhood education, basically a very liberal Bernie platform. The problem is, as much of a peacenik as I am, the world IS a dangerous place and we cannot just beat our swords into plowshares all of a sudden without worldwide repercussions:
a) In my city, if we cut DOD, Energy, NSA and other war related spending suddenly to 1999 levels or below, about 20,000 people would lose their jobs and our whole regional economy would be in the crapper until that massive influx of federal dollars got replaced. To put this in perspective, between 2000 and 2015 businesses in my county alone (just part of a 10 county metro area) got over $19 billion in DOD contracts.
b) Our head-up-ass foreign policy has destabilized a huge swath of the globe and our military (unfortunately) is the only thing holding these regions together

In short, Stein isn't really qualified to address point 1 above.

She also isn't that dynamic, and the Greens can't even get their shit together to come up with a platform, let alone having any kind of effective ground game in a general election.

So...I'm not really AGAINST Stein per se - It's just that a vote for her is a vote against Clinton or maybe FOR Trump, which is very bad. Sure, Clinton has been a bit slow in moving to the left, but she has. IMHO, like Bill Maher said, "The Clintons aren't the first ones there (like for gay marriage) but they GET there."

Maher then painted an analogy - he said we are at a train station and we have a choice. We want to go to X, and the Clinton train is going in that direction. It will eventually arrive at X but the trip will be slower than you want...

The other train, though, the Trump train, is gonna move awfully fast, but it is going..........to hell.

[bravenak]

219. You made some damn good points

About number one, thats where she and I match well, we agree on what we need, just not how to do it. For some folks it is always about going back, for me, it is about building on what we have, and making it relevant to our times. Plus 'do no harm' is how I roll.

This world is dangerous and I do live by a joint base, Air Force and Army, and we need those jobs and people here. We need to feel safe and some up here do worry about Russia and their incursions into our waters and airspace up here. I worked for a military subcontractor and alot of the stuff we did there was beneficial to all Alaskans. And we are in budget crisis anyways, the cuts would destroy us.

[Tarc]

221. Jill Stein is an antisemite and anti-vaxxer, she is no friend to the Democratic Party

[bravenak]

224. I thought she was Jewish?

But yeah, the anti vaxx shitand the anti wifi shit are enough for me. Crazy. How can you be anti WIFI?

[Tarc]

274. I don't know if she's of Jewish decent or not, but

that level of extreme anti-Israeli criticism, bordering on manic, can only be described one way.

[SCantiGOP]

222. Just released Monmouth poll

Stein at 2%, Libertarians at 7.
This is what most people were predicting: the Greens will end up with less than 1% but, as we found out in 2000, just a few thousand votes can swing a state and even a national election.

[bravenak]

226. Yes. I really dont want her screwing up swing states for us. No Trump!

She really picked a bad time to play with elections. Hope she stops running.

[Still In Wisconsin]

225. I think you mis-read the memo Bravenak. We are supposed to KICK her ass,

not kiss her ass.

Please try to pay attention

[bravenak]

227. My bad!!

[Cane4Dems]

229. She is dumb as rocks

One of the dumbest people on this planet. Also has accomplished nothing.

Complete loser. Yes I'm sounding like Trump but I don't give a crap.

Thanks for this post- it was much needed

[bravenak]

230. She sounds so dumb in that commercial

And I'm not amused at her anti wifi stance

[dembotoz]

231. posts like this sure do not help gaining back the bernie bots

perhaps the poster loves the idea of pushing the party to the right.....

[bravenak]

233. Number one- calling them berniebots is not helpful

Second- Bernie supports Hillary and Jill Stein's VP candidate calls Bernie some very sistrubing things, so those who support Bernie are unlikely to support that crazy Green Ticket.

[dembotoz]

265. beat your chest all you want but i have to work wtih these folks and post like this hurt

you are showing these dems yes many, most have always been dems to put up and shut up.....

you are driving them to jill
hope you are happy

[Cary]

234. Just heard her blah blah about "lesser of two evils."

She is the one we've been waiting for, she says.

Maybe she gets 5%? Who is we?

[bravenak]

236. She's as crazy as Trmup is

[Ken Burch]

235. It's not about deference to Stein herself.

It's about not alienating voters we might still be able to get later in the fall.

Stein is at 2%. She's not going to go up from there.

We are already neutralizing her by running a positive, progressive campaign.

[bravenak]

237. If they are voting for greens anyways, fuck em

[Ken Burch]

238. Stein is at 2%.

What, exactly, do we achieve by devoting time to targeting her?

I could understand if we were at a dead heat in the polls...but we're thirteen to fifteen points ahead. Barring a massive screwup by our own ticket(which I don't see happening)there's no way we'll lose this thing.

Best to keep the focus on Trump in any case. THAT is what's working for us.

[bravenak]

239. We can get her under one percent if we try

I say let's

[Ken Burch]

240. Agreed. The best way to do that

is to point out how much more progressive this year's platform is, that party reform has advanced, and to demonstrate that space for activism has been created within the Democratic Party.

Going after Stein, emotionally satisfying as that may be for some, doesn't help us in this goal.

If anything, attacking her actually HELPS her...it lets her play the martyr and is likely to make people we might win over dig in their heels and stay with her because they feel the larger party is ganging up on them.

Our ticket seems to get this, and I respect their perceptiveness in the matter.

[SunSeeker]

272. 2% is enough give a swing state to Trump.

And Stein is running virulently anti-Clinton ads in swing states. She is fucking evil.

[ZombieHorde]

241. Her anti-science stances are hard to overlook.

Weird vaccine and wi-fi beliefs coupled with anti-gmo nonsense makes my eyes roll so hard that I'm afraid I will get an eye strain.

I'm thankful the Dems are sane on those issues. I don't think I could support Dems if they turned against vaccines or GMOs.

[bravenak]

247. Yep. The wifi thing just kill whatever respect I had left for her ideas.

I just can't now.

[liberalnarb]

243. Stein is polling at 2 percent!

Forget about her.

[bravenak]

248. Let's get her down to one percent! Yay!

[liberalnarb]

249. How about we work on getting tRumps numbers down?

[bravenak]

251. We are doing that too! Yay, multitasking!!!

[MADem]

250. She is an asshole who should be mocked like the Nader she is.

Those of us who live in the Commonwealth of MA have seen this bullshit artist up close and personal. She is a wealthy dilettante from Lexington MA who thinks the Green Party is her personal fiefdom. She's like a caricature of the President of the Garden Club in an old Dennis The Menace episode who gets furious if someone else has grown a rose that might take the prize at the competition, or something. She's a complete ass whose sole goal is attention seeking. She likes to see herself on television, she loves the sound of her own voice. She doesn't give a shit about the country; she's all about Jill.

Tiresome, same shit/different day. We've seen her do this before--she might be news to many on the national scene, but she is a whine, a griper and a scold from way back. The only difference now is that she's getting some right wing (and maybe Russian) help this time around...!!!

[bravenak]

252. Oh hell yeah

I noticed how please she was with her own self in her last commercial. It irritates me every time I see it. Phony as hell.

[MADem]

256. Who picked up the bill for that, I wonder? That is a large national ad buy.

Not cheap for an outfit that has no outreach and little infrastructure past the kitchen island in Jill's million dollar Lexington home!

She should have spent a few bucks on someone with production savvy--putting her neck smack-dab in the middle of the tv screen was a strategic error.

I wanna see HER tax returns! I won't hold my breath....

[bravenak]

257. I am over here giving myself a headache trying to figure out how she paid

I know my market has to be cheaper than average but some people in swing states are seeing it too. Had to cost big bucks. Kinda wonder if the Kochs are smart enough to fund her as a spoiler.

[MADem]

267. I'm seeing it in the Boston market, which extends to RI, parts of CT, southern NH, too.

Not often, but every now and again--and on the cable channels, too.

This is a massive, Putin-esque buy for such a small outfit.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

260. Cornel West's praise of her will no doubt turn off many.

He was a horror on Bill Maher.

[bravenak]

261. Glad I messed Maher

Cornell irritates.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

262. Don't know how we stuck with it to the bitter end.

But Maher got him when he got the last word in a 'new rule' . (can't remember what, but a Stein reference I think).

[Gothmog]

277. Prof West is a horrible surrogate

[secondwind]

264. I hear she is running ads in swing states, she is up to no good...

[SunSeeker]

270. Exactly. Stein running ads in swing states shows she's trying to pull a Nader.

[LynneSin]

271. Have you seen the polls? GEORGIA is now a swing state

And that state has been solidly red for decades

[LynneSin]

269. Sorry but if they are voting for Jill Stein then they are NOT Democrats

They are people who very well know that Stein cannot win and their vote could possibly help Trump if they happen to live in a competitive state.

Hillary is the Democratic nominee and her biggest competition in the primaries, Bernie Sanders, has endorsed her. I respect that everyone has a voice and the right to vote how they want but I am challenged by anyone who says they are a 'democrat' and votes for an anti-woman (and I stand by that after her Mother's day comment about Hillary) and anti science candidate like Jill Stein.

[colsohlibgal]

273. Public Enemy Number One?

The recent obsessing on Jill Stein is so bizarre. It has flowered as Hillary has surged way, way ahead. Trump is toast. We are going to get Clinton part 2 so why? It's like she is Hitler and Cosby rolled into one.

[JTFrog]

275. Fuck Stein and Nader. Third party spoilers who claim Dem and Repug are the same or push Trump at us

deserve zero respect and absolutely zero ass kissing.

Skinner has made it clear that Stein is the opposition here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125911354

ATA: Are we allowed to criticize Jill Stein?

Answer: Of course.

The DU Terms of Service make clear that we support the Democratic nominee. Presidential elections in the United States are a zero-sum game in which other candidates must lose in order for the Democratic candidate to win. We are competing with Jill Stein and Gary Johnson and Donald Trump in our effort to win the presidency. They are our opponents.

Stein is not only the opposition, she has pushed some dangerous propaganda this election season and she is batshit crazy. Fuck that. Neither she nor her supporters are our allies.

[Orsino]

278. Better yet, let's rob her.

Of voters.

[Orcrist]

279. To Hell with them here's why

Jill Stein lost any hope of me being respectful to her when she started running ads in swing states in which she briefly and dismissively mentions Trump and then nastily attacks Hillary. Why focus her attacks on Hillary? Seems odd for someone supposedly on the left side of the political spectrum to view Hillary as a bigger threat to their goals than Trump. Unless of course your real goal is merely to hurt Clinton. This is what I firmly believe to be the truth. I still remember the horrible crack Stein made about Hillary on mothers day. It's obvious that she hates Hillary. And the fact that at this point it seems her attempts will likely fail to hurt Hillary enough to matter does "NOTHING" in my book to lessen the shitty nature of the attempt itself. If someone tries to intentionally shoot me with a gun I don't consider it less of an offense just because they miss badly. It's still attemped murder whether they miss by an inch or ten feet. And an attempted political rat fuck is still an attempted rat fuck whether she bleeds off enough votes to actually cost Hillary a state or not.

I am also highly suspicious of where her ad money is coming from. I haven't seen this many prime time TV spots from a 3rd party candidate since Ross Perot. And Perot was a billionaire so it's no mystery where his money came from. Stein is not a billionaire. And the Green Party she heads would go broke throwing a Friday night kegger for a large fraternity. But suddenly a candidade from a party that broke who is pulling 2% in most polls has enough money to run multiple primetime TV spots every night in every swing state in American. Really? I don't think I'm off too deep into the conspiracy woods thinking that seems a bit odd.

As for going easy on the greens because we might need them, you can forget that pipe dream. I have had dealings with them on forums before and in at least one Facebook political group. They are hopeless. Ultimately I was left with the following impression. They fall into 2 groups.

1.) Greens who genuinely believe there is no difference between Clinton and Trump that would concern them to choose one over the other. Some of them even think Hillary is worse than Trump. These people are sub-imbecilic morons. It is pointless to attempt any out reach or conversation with people who are that incapable of grasping the truth and reality of a situation or the world around them in general. What means would you use anyway? Facts and logic bounce off them like a rubber ball off a brick wall. You might as well try to teach Algebra to a rat.

2.) Greens who know that Hillary is actually a much better candidate than Trump but still won't support her because she doesn't pass their purity test. Because of course they are such special people that their vote can't be bestowed on just anyone. Oh sure it's fine for us low inbred commoners to cast practical votes for imperfect people but not them. Their candidate must be perfect. Of course there are no perfect candidates but they get around that by always backing someone that has no prayer to win. Someone that will never hold office and be exposed as imperfect. Because if that happened then they could be held accountable for voting for them. I call them elitist, douchebag, candy ass, chicken shits. They will never vote for a mainstream candidate who has a chance to win for fear of being blamed for that candidates actions. It is therefore just as pointless to try to talk to them or reach out to them as it would be with the group one idiots. In fact I have more respect for the idiots. They are pitiful but at least they are acting honestly on their genuine beliefs, even if their beliefs are tragically flawed.