Question about US-elections and photo-ID

[DetlefK]

I'm not from the US, so correct me if I misunderstood something here:
- The Republicans demand photo-ID to prevent voter-fraud.
- Minorities are less likely to have photo-ID.
- Minorities are less likely to have a photo-ID, because many of them are poor and can't afford the costs to get one.



Sooooooooooooooo...

Why not make IDs free?

Simple proposal:
All IDs that are valid for the purposes of an election may not be issued at a cost to the owner of the ID other than a tax levied on the community as a whole.
Travelling-costs and external processing-costs related to the obtainment of such an ID are reimbursed on the local level.

Everybody can get a valid ID and voter-fraud will be no more. The Republicans will love this.

[unblock]

1. that's where this should end up, but republicans would hate this.

voter fraud is extraordinarily rare already and republicans really only do this precisely to make it expensive and difficult for poor people to vote. make it free and easy and that defeats the whole point from the republicans' perspective.

note that it needs to be easy, as well; e.g., get a voting id at the polling place on voting day.


that said, even this is a silly compromise. anyone determined enough to commit voting fraud by showing up under multiple false identities can readily figure out how to obtain false ids.


meanwhile, hacking into the voting machines themselves is a problem completely ignored. that, of course, is a vastly more real election fraud issue, but republicans want to pretend that people voting under false names is rampant instead.

[DetlefK]

5. Hacking is just one of two problems with voting-machines:

The other problem is aging. As a rule of thumb, electronics are almost guaranteed to develop errors and problems once they hit an age of 10-15 years. (Because the semiconductor-microchips are slowly deteriorating over time. Electric tubes don't have that problem.)

A county that bought a voting-machine for the 2004-election? That machine is 12 years old by now. Even if it doesn't already produce errors by now, I'd be highly surprised if it still works accurately in 2020.

And not to mention malfunctioning touchscreens, because the glue holding the plates in place is deteriorating.



Voting-machines actually should get checked on a regular basis if they still work.
And voting-machines should regularly be replaced with new ones.
Except that they are expensive and small towns don't have the money for all of that.

[Chasstev365]

2. Exactly! To require a person to pay to vote in ANY WAY constitutes a Poll Tax

which is expressedly illegal under the voting rights act of 1965. That is the case I would make.

[jberryhill]

3. Can you vote naked, or do you have to buy clothes?

[Wounded Bear]

18. I can vote naked....

of course we have all mail-in voting here.

[jberryhill]

19. How did you fill out the form?

Without buying a pen or pencil?

[mothra1orbit]

4. It's not simply a matter of money

First of all, voting is a right for all US citizens. There should be no impediment for anyone who is a citizen to vote. Even obtaining a free photo ID can be an impediment.

Photo IDs now are the provenance mainly of state departments of transportation; your photo driver's license is probably the most common form of photo ID. Many if not all states also offer an official photo ID for non-drivers, but that is created and obtained from the dept. of transportation. These facilities are not typically located anywhere near the inner city, so getting to the place where you can obtain an ID can be an insurmountable problem. The one nearest me, for example, is located just outside a suburban mall where there is very limited bus service.

Licensing centers are notoriously unpleasant and crowded, with long waits on hard chairs. They serve as the location for taking written driving tests, resolving problems with licenses, and the starting point for road driving tests. They are understaffed. This sounds like petty concerns, but if you're an elderly person or a person with disabilities you may not be able to tolerate the situation. My daughter, 30 years old, is severely disabled, and just the process of getting a photo with her eyes open took a long, long time.

When you go to the polls, you sign in. The poll attendant matches your signature from when you registered to vote. It seems to me that this is a better way of verifying someone's identity than a photograph taken every couple of years. What if I lost or gained 100 lbs. between elections? How about hair color and style? Plastic surgery?

Photo ID is nothing more than an attempt by Republicans to keep people who won't vote for them from voting at all.

[DetlefK]

6. Example: Germany

You get an official notification by mail that there is an election and where you can vote. (Plus instructions for early-voting andsoforth.)

On election-day, you go to the voting-place.

To prove your identity, you show the notification and an ID that you are this person living at that address.

[mothra1orbit]

8. The US may be too big a country for that to work here

My cultural bias is showing, but I think Germans are probably a lot more organized than we are here in the US.

I don't see what's wrong with comparing signatures. Very, very few people are good forgers, especially if they don't get to see the signature they're going to forge before they try to forge it.

[Jerry442]

7. There are still some of us who don't want a "Papers, please" society.

Although the ship is pretty close to sailing on that issue.

[brer cat]

9. The cost of the ID is only part of the problem.

Many states require additional information including certified copies of birth certificates, marriage certificates to verify name changes, plus utility or bank account statements to verify addresses. The former can be expensive and time consuming to obtain, the latter may not be available at all for poor people. Plus for those without vehicles, the trip to a DMV to obtain the ID can be troublesome and/or expensive.

Besides, it is all about vote suppression, not voter-fraud.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

10. I don't need photo ID in Ohio as long as I...

... vote absentee. The last time that I showed up at a polling place, I had to show them my driver's license. My license picture was me with my hair mostly buzzed off, and an old Republican guy working there said, "I don't think that's really you!" I think he was joking, though.

Anyway, that's just another idea that I wanted to float out there. The absentee ballot requires the last 4 digits of my Social Security number (or some other option that I don't recall).

People in Ohio don't need a "reason" for voting absentee anymore.

[Maeve]

14. You can vote in person in Ohio without photo ID

IF you are registered and can show that you are at the address in the book (a bank statement, any govenment mail, a utility bill in your name, for example). And you do have to request the absentee ballot, but that's not a major problem. Still, the homeless are virtually disenfranchised. (just filling in with extra info)

[Buckeye_Democrat]

15. Thanks for the clarification. It's been long enough since...

... I went to a polling place that I didn't remember the details.

I think I indeed used the driver's license because I didn't have other means of address verification on me at the time, now that you mention it.

I didn't even know that I could openly carry my rifle here in Ohio (with some exceptions) until I saw reports of people planning to openly carry assault rifles at the GOP convention! (Not that I plan to win a "Darwin Award" by openly carrying my rifle around town.) I don't always keep up to date with our sometimes crazy laws here.

[Gothmog]

11. The whole purpose of these laws is to steal elections

If the ids were truly free or easily available, then these laws would not be serving their true purpose.

Luckily, the courts are seeing through this lie and these laws are being held to be invalid

[fleabiscuit]

12. Congress can create a law mandating the method of voting for all states.

I'd suggest they use Oregon's vote by mail method as a model for all states.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

13. Sounds good to me! Have there ever been reports...

... of a pile of mail ballots from poorer parts of towns found in dumpsters? I guess that could be another method of voter suppression.

[fleabiscuit]

21. They go directly to the county clerks where they are tabulated.

[Recursion]

16. They often are free, but still unobtainable

They require documentation that many people simply don't have and can't get.

[Hawaii Hiker]

17. Voter fraud is a non-existent Republican ginned up ploy

to make it harder for Democrats to vote....Period...Done...End of story...

When there is REAL voter fraud, it's usually with absentee ballots, (person gets absentee ballot and sells it), but since Republicans (mostly military) use absentee ballots, they don't bother with that....

[csziggy]

20. Some state use photo IDs as money makers

Florida charges $25 for a photo ID. I'm not sure how long they are valid, but they do have to be updated or renewed, the same way that driver's licenses (which can be used for photo ID) do.

In addition to the $25 charge, applicants also have to provide other proofs of identity: a birth certificate ($10 per copy obtained from the state or county where born), proof of any name change (marriage certificate, divorce certificate, death certificate of spouse, court papers if name changed legally - costs vary by jurisdiction and number or type of document needed), proof of residency (cheapest is copy of utility bill - but if you are not the primary resident and the bill is not in your name, you have to have some other form of proof of your address), and proof of citizenship (birth certificate if born in US, green card, Social Security card, etc.).

Costs for all those proofs can add up. The number of visits to the government offices can increase the costs. The stupidity and ignorance of the clerks at the offices can add to the hassle of getting the needed photo ID (in my case, my 50+ year old Social Security card was questioned because the young clerk had never seen one like it - even though her workstation had a page with "acceptable" SS cards pictured that included one like mine - and it was only the intervention of an older clerk that got me through the process).

The various governmental entities that collect the monies for all the documents needed to obtain a valid photo ID are not likely to by-pass getting their cut of citizen's money. They will NOT provide documentation for free.

Now here in Florida you don't even have to show your voter ID card, just your driver's license or some other photo ID. The issuance of voter ID cards is now archaic and is justified as an informational convenience for the voters so they know their precincts and other voting districts. They also serve as a confirmation of residence - the cards are sent out periodically to the registered address; if they are returned to the office the voter is assumed to have moved or died.

If they want photo ID for voting, then put pictures on the voter ID card.