Libertarian ticket could spoil Clinton party

[ericson00]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/opinions/libertarians-opinion-zwolinski/index.html

With national polling numbers hovering around 12%, the Libertarian ticket of Gary Johnson and William Weld has the potential to be a real spoiler in the presidential election. But whose candidacy are they most likely to spoil?
Most people think of libertarianism as a kind of right-wing ideology, with its intellectual origins in the free-market economics of Milton Friedman and the unabashed egoism and anti-communism of Ayn Rand. And it's certainly true that for most of its existence, the Libertarian Party has drawn more heavily from the political right than from the political left.

But Gary Johnson is actually drawing just as much support from self-identified Democrats as he does from Republicans. And polls that include Johnson actually show a slight decrease in Clinton's lead over Trump.

Please, PLEASE stop anyone voting for Johnson! He will elect Trump or spoil a Clinton mandate.

[HERVEPA]

1. Ridiculous. He is no threat at all.

[Grassy Knoll]

2. No

[unitedwethrive]

3. Why would a liberal vote libertarian? Makes no sense at all.

[Salviati]

5. There are plenty of damn fools out there.

It's a bad idea to count on people making a lick of sense.

[ericson00]

6. read the effin article and their platform

they're socially to the left of the Democrats on weed, crime reform, and always have been progressive on LGBT/abortion issues.

[mythology]

16. They aren't particularly progressive on LGBT rights

At best they want to not have government restrictions on same sex marriage. But they are just fine with businesses openly discriminating. So a hotel could refuse a same sex couple or a company could refuse to cater a same sex marriage for example.

Libertarians want the government to be so small as to be functionally useless.

[mr_liberal]

19. Thats incorrect about Johnson. He is for anti discrimination laws. Libertarians arent all the same.

[Maru Kitteh]

32. Not true, he said the laws were already in place and skirted around the infamous cake issue

by saying current law says you have to sell a cake to anyone if it's for sale but you shouldn't have to decorate it.

CNN town hall.

He refused to directly answer the question about the government having any responsibility to move equality forward.

[stevenleser]

37. The part I agree with you on is that all Libertarians are not the same. As I noted

In my #36 below, the Libertarians have had an infestation of folks from the Republican party who really are just standard Republicans but are using the Libertarian party opportunistically.

[democrattotheend]

39. One of my good friends resigned his LP membership for that reason

Unlike the major parties, where you register through the state (if your state has party registration), to be a formal member of the Libertarian Party you register with the party and pay dues. My friend resigned his membership after Johnson was renominated because he is frustrated with the party becoming a haven for washed up Republicans as opposed to true Libertarians. Amazingly, had Bernie won the primaries, he even said he would consider voting for Bernie over Johnson because he is fed up with the LP selling out. But there is no way he will ever vote for Hillary, unfortunately. He is a conspiracy theorist and buys into a lot of the crap out there about her.

[stevenleser]

40. I can understand that. I think a lot of Libertarians are annoyed at those folks

joining the party.

I think eventually the Republicans will all become Lbertarian and I think that's great. We will win on Social issues like LGBT rights, women's rights and drug legalization. The great debate will then be solidly on economics.

[Jamaal510]

20. ...

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Thankfully, saner voices are gradually prevailing in our party, on cannabis.

I suspect that the Johnson ticket (lol) will appeal more to disaffected (R) types than anyone else this cycle.

[stevenleser]

36. You have to be very careful which Libertarians you are talking about. Many are just Republicans

who couldn't get to where they wanted in the GOP and so they went Libertarian. Many of those "Libertarians" are far from the kind that are socially Liberal/Progressive.

Wayne Allyn Root, the Libertarian VP nominee from 2008 is a good example. There are a number of them.

[stopbush]

4. !

Ya know, it's not like it's a slow news day.

[brush]

7. Yeah, yeah. More FUD spewing.

If anything Johnson will take sensible Republican votes who are scared and disgusted with Trump.

[Tarheel_Dem]

8. That is not what the polling says, despite "opinion" from the Libertarians. He's hurting Trump more.

[writes3000]

9. Think about it: If you're Never Trump then you might vote for Johnson before Hillary.

Makes sense.

[pscot]

11. This

makes sense

[still_one]

10. I don't buy it. What states would Johnson win? Maybe New Mexico, but I doubt it. Who are these

so-called self-identified Democrats? The vast majority of Democrats realize the very real danger that Trump is. They are voting for Hillary.

[ericson00]

29. They're Bernie or Bust types

Who can't bring themselves to vote Trump, or they're Dems who can't get over the Iraq vote but don't like Trump, young kids who think both Clinton and Trump are corrupt and wanna vote moral purity, etc

[still_one]

34. Those folks never had any intention to vote for Hillary, and there is no point wasting time on them.

90% of Bernie supporters have already said they will be voting for Hillary

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. Oh, is it Thursday again? nt

[denbot]

13. Yeah, all those crazies with the Ron Paul signs are Democrats..

Sure buddy.

[DinahMoeHum]

14. Libertarians are too RW to take votes away from Hillary.

Johnson might appeal to those who hate Trump but who can't bear themselves to vote for the Democrat - IOW, disaffected Republicans.

It's Trump, not Clinton, who is screwed with a Libertarian ticket. It's votes not going to him.

[ericson00]

30. Being prochoice, pro marijuana, and pro LGBT

Like Johnson is not RW....Significant 3rd party nominees are more vehicles for protest votes than actual ideology.

Also, we don't need the GOP to have the "Clinton only won because of a spoiler" excuse that the GOP (and far left) gave us in the 1990s. With a stronger mandate, WJC might have gotten more done.

[MH1]

31. Is he not anti-EPA, anti environmental regulations generally?

Anti regulations generally? Pro unregulated capitalism?

Those are extreme right wing positions and normally part of the Libertarian Party platform.

The problem with libertarians is that they are anti regulation on ALL fronts, including being opposed to regulating organized groups from exploiting vulnerable individuals. Being pro drug legalization doesn't make someone a liberal.

[TwilightZone]

33. You might want to look at him on the rest of the issues.

He is decidedly conservative on many, many issues.

Off the top of my head, he's for school vouchers, is pro-gun, says government-run health care is "insanity", wants to privatize SS, wants to get rid of the EPA and the IRS, and supports a flat tax.

Sound like a leftie to you? He's a right-libertarian. Anyone on the left who thinks they should support him for a few hand-picked issues doesn't understand (or realize) that he's a conservative on just about everything else.

[molova]

15. No, national polling for Johnson is not hovering 12%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

[Cali_Democrat]

17. LOL....the media knows Trump and the GOP are in trouble

So they're trying to float anything they can in order to create the horse race narrative.

Hilarious.

[TeamPooka]

18. This! They need it to be a contest for ratings. nt

[JoePhilly]

23. + 1

[Dem2]

21. Writers are bored

I can't take this seriously - 3rd party always seem to fade at the last minute.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I doubt it. I think they'll cut more into Trump than anything else.

Remind people that Trump wants to outlaw internet pornography and will probably appoint "tough on legal weed" Chris Christie as AG.

[GeorgeGist]

25. OK, I'll bite ...

[stonecutter357]

26. fuck Ron Paul.

[misterhighwasted]

27. Libertarian+Tea Party+Christian Coalition =John Birch Society of the Koch Family

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/29/1227404/-Where-do-Rand-Paul-Ralph-Reed-and-David-Koch-Connect

Where do Rand Paul, Ralph Reed, and David Koch Connect?
Jul 29, 2013 11:37am CDT

--------------------


http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=INSIDER-Proof-Tea--Liber-by-Daily-Kos-John-Birch-Society_Tea-Party_Tea-Party-Movement-151121-736.html

INSIDER Proof: Tea & Libertarian Parties ARE The John Birch Society
-------------------

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/01/21/the-john-birch-societys-anti-civil-rights-campaign-of-the-1960s-and-its-relevance-today/#sthash.VFB6ZuRS.dpbs

The John Birch Society’s Anti-Civil Rights Campaign of the 1960s, and Its Relevance Today

Founded in 1958, the John Birch Society (JBS) fiercely opposed the Civil Rights Movement during the 1960s and 1970s. Decades later, the rise of the Tea Party and the ongoing “Ron Paul Revolution” have helped the JBS make a comeback as it attracts young people by re-branding itself as “libertarian.” The organization is a significant force behind promoting the nullification of federal laws, as described in the most recent issue of The Public Eye. The JBS has also helped provide fodder for accusations that President Obama, considered by most Democrats to have governed as a centrist, is a Marxist. ...MORE

[emulatorloo]

28. McClatchy: Clinton 45/Trump 31/Johnson 10/Stein 6

"In a four way race, Clinton retains her lead. She gets 45 percent to Trump’s 31 percent. Libertarian Gary Johnson has 10 percent and the Green Party’s Jill Stein has 6 percent."

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article93763582.html#storylink=cpy

Sorry, CNN, Johnson's taking votes from Trump as far as I can tell.

[Doctor Jack]

35. Uh huh

[democrattotheend]

38. I think it is a wash, mostly

Gary Johnson presents an attractive, or at least acceptable, alternative for those who usually vote Republican, don't like Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary. If he were not an option, I would guess that some of those voters would go for Hillary but more would end up going for Trump, for the Supreme Court if nothing else (although I think Johnson is probably more attractive to the business conservatives than the religious conservatives). So it depends whether you consider a vote for Johnson in that situation to be taking a vote from Hillary or from Trump.

That said, there may be a few people like my friend who is the only liberal in a family of libertarians. She was a Bernie supporter and may vote Libertarian now, but she promised me she would vote for Hillary if she has a chance of winning her red-leaning state. I confess that I even considered voting Libertarian a few months ago, because I was angry and defiant and I figured my vote didn't matter because I don't live in a swing state. I am on board with Hillary now, obviously, but if I had to vote third party I would rather vote for Johnson than Stein, because at least he is not out to specifically harm the Democratic Party.