I thought that GWB was a low-IQ President.

[MineralMan]

He never seemed to really grasp any nuance in any situation, and followed a more or less rote response to things. I thought he was one of the least intelligent men ever to serve in that office and that we might never see anyone like that again.

However, Donald Trump appears to me to be even less capable intellectually. He has a small vocabulary, little education, and no inclination to look at things from any perspective but his own narrow, limited one. He lacks interest in learning anything new, and actually resists any attempts to teach him anything.

An intelligent person would never have to ask why we shouldn't use the nuclear weapons we'd created. The answer to that question is evident to any thinking person. An intelligent person would know the significance of a Purple Heart or a Gold Star family and would behave accordingly. A smart person knows when he's stepped over a line and finds a way to step back and heal the problem he has caused.

Anyone with a brain in his head would know that simply building some wall could not fix any problem with immigration and would create far more problems. There are so many things that this buffoon says that demonstrate how little intelligence, wisdom and even wit he has.

I thought I would never see a candidate for President as stupid as George W. Bush. I was wrong. Donald Trump has even less between his ears than even the Shrub.

There's no light behind his little eyes. Nothing goes on inside his skull that will be of any good use to this nation. What he doesn't know he cannot learn. His brain is full, and has no more room for information. He doesn't even have the intelligence to know that he is stupid.

GOTV for Hillary! Please!

[speaktruthtopower]

1. I don't think anyone who gets to that level

is dumb, but you have to wonder about some of the statements and decisions.

[MineralMan]

2. My guess is that his IQ is right about 100.

Just average. Our Presidents need to be smarter than that, frankly.

I'd love to see how he has tested, though, if he ever has been.

But, yeah, about 100. Based on vocabulary and reasoning ability, that would be my guess.

[speaktruthtopower]

16. He got into Wharton

He's made 10 billion dollars. Has to be 120+

[Hekate]

18. Would love to know how much $$$ his daddy had to give them in order to make that happen.

Those buildings don't just endow themselves, after all.

In addition, Benedict Donald went to college at a time when it was more difficult to spot a skillfully written term paper produced by somebody other than the student. Would love to see his transcripts, but I don't think they would tell the whole story. At his age, nearly all of his old professors are dead, and you'd have to root around for any classmates willing to talk about their experiences with him.

[Hekate]

19. Also, you have to append "Claims to have made" to that sum, and "Also lost it several times."

[Zynx]

44. No one thinks he's worth $10 billion. And he got a BBA, not an MBA. There's a difference.

[pnwmom]

45. He got into Wharton during the era of the "gentleman's C." And Wharton was not

equivalent to the Ivies in admission difficulty. I doubt if it is now, either.

[speaktruthtopower]

47. Penn is an Ivy..

not one of the higher rated ones back then, but still a very good school.

Trump is probably very smart in some ways, despite the outrageous statements. I don't blame Republicans for thinking he might be throwing the election.

[pnwmom]

48. You're right. I'd forgotten because Wharton, despite its reputation, was easier to get into

than U Penn overall. I knew someone who was applying in that era.

[politicaljunkie41910]

17. I would agree with you but I'd add the following:

What moves him into the Dumb category for me is that he's running for the highest office in the land which requires a deeper knowledge base and skill set than he possesses and he has done nothing in the past 14 months to acquire that knowledge or skill. And worse yet is a compulsive liar and demagogue who, without that knowledge could put nations' lives and treasure at risk due to his ignorance.

[Chemisse]

51. I agree that he is probably average.

He could succeed if he worked hard. But I think his personality disorders cripple him intellectually.

[MoonRiver]

6. Powerful and rich people can get to that level. Dimson and DimDon are perfect examples.

I agree with MM. I think he's basically Average IQ. My educated opinion is that he's between 95 and 100. No way is that smart enough to take on the responsibilities of the world's most powerful leader! I think Dimson also had a learning disability, which made him look more ignorant than he was, although he sure wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box. I think Rump is lower IQ, but may have been able to get through his undergraduate program without excessive cheating.

[Cosmocat]

3. GW was a complete dolt, but ...

1) He was a lot more disciplined than the Donald by the time he got into politics. He had his younger party years.but by the time he ran for Governor he had started to discipline himself with how he ate and also exercising. He also knew after losing his first election that needed help and direction, and he allowed himself to be managed by Rove. He had his share of saying some stupid ass things, but, FOR THE MOST PART, he allowed Rove to coach him up on talking points and what not to say, and he was VERY disciplined when he spoke in public.

He and Rove did a watered down Reagen thing with the Compassionate Conservative bullshit. He VERY rarely was bombastic like a lot of post 90s revolution Rs were.

2) He and Jeb both had a much less virulent sense of nationalism than more populace type convervatives. They did not demonize Hispanics, and GW actually tried to do immigration reform. He was a simple minded dolt, arrogant in his own way and born to privilege, but he was not out and out hateful and dismissive of the "little" people as most Rs tend to be.

[Tatiana]

11. Great points.

GWB did become very disciplined later in life. Donald Trump has exhibited little to no discipline in either his personal or professional life. I think the only one that can sort of manage him is the daughter - Ivanka.

Jeb married a woman of Mexican heritage, so it is no surprise that they are generally in favor of immigration reform. GWB was arrogant ("I'm the decider&quot but I didn't get the sense that he was downright hateful and dismissive of the "little" people. He loved "chest thumping" it up. I can't imagine Trump would even know what a chest thump was or how to do it.

Trump is hands down the worst candidate for President we have ever seen.

[localroger]

23. GWB had one towering Daddy issue

...and that was Saddam in Iraq. On other topics GWB was mostly willing to be advised by his experts, some of whom were idiots in their own right (such as the entire PNAC crowd) but who were mostly, like Reagan's advisors, businesspeople who understood that things like nuclear war are bad for profits and that some limits do need to be observed so that the looting can proceed with minimal friction.

[wishstar]

46. Bush was also extremely careful to never get caught technically lying

Although Bush was an awkward speaker, he was cautious in his wording to never be accused of lying, probably because of what happened to Bill Clinton over the Lewinsky testimony.

When Bush conveyed a dishonest message such as about Iraq's WMD, he was misleading but not technically lying because of the background circumstances. However Trump has shown total disregard for even the appearance of truth, constantly and blatantly lying, repeatedly making false claims with no nuance or subtlety whatsoever.

Bush never promoted xenophobia and racism the way Trump does either.

[Chemisse]

54. W's attempt at immigration reform was the one thing I liked about him.

But it was swallowed up in the very many things I despised about him.

Trump, on the other hand, has no redeeming characteristics at all.

[Siwsan]

4. It would be interesting to learn his actual I.Q. - apparently he has disclosed it is "very high"

I would think that someone as 'educated' as Trump would know his. Of course, he would never approve releasing the actual testing results, so we'd just have to take his word for what he says. HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!

Of course, high IQs might make someone intelligent, but they don't necessarily make them smart.

[MoonRiver]

7. I'm sure he's blowing smoke out of his ass!

Anymore, few children or adolescents get their IQs tested in school. It is now usually just done to diagnose intellectual deficiency. As a licensed psychologist, who has given thousands of IQ tests, I'd bet he has an IQ at the mid to lower levels of Average.

[Siwsan]

9. I had no idea they didn't still do those tests

We had ours tested, in school, and our teacher wrote down the number in the grade book, in a column clearly labeled "IQ". I know this because she handed me the book, one day, to take attendance. That's how I learned mine.

[MoonRiver]

12. My husband had his tested also, but I never did to my knowledge.

By the time I started testing kids in school, they were used primarily to identify students with disabilities for special education, or to qualify students for gifted programs. They are being used much less now even in special education.

[kestrel91316]

28. I have a pretty high IQ, being a former member of Mensa. So I have

been around a lot of other high IQ people in Mensa and also in college (especially vet school).

I have a pretty good "feel" for these things, and am quite certain that Trump is AT BEST average (100).

[Jade Fox]

5. I read something yesterday (sorry, no link)...

speculating that Trump may be in the early stages of dementia. Many of the behaviors you mention are similar, and apparently his father had Alzheimer's the last five years of his life.

[MoonRiver]

8. I didn't know that about his father.

Do you know at what age his father died?

[Siwsan]

10. his dad was 93

He had Alzheimer's for about 6 years, and died of pneumonia.

[MoonRiver]

13. Well at that age might not be genetic.

But I do think Rump exhibits signs.

[HockeyMom]

14. W is not endorsing Trump

did not go to the RNC, and is very silent on Trump candidacy. Maybe even he has more brains than Trump?

[auntpurl]

15. He has no emotional intelligence whatsoever. nt

[Bill USA]

20. I have to admit he said something that made me laugh: "Who even knows what xenophobia is??"LOL

Last edited Fri Aug 5, 2016, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

49. That's why his sopporters love him. No smarter than them. But, psssst...

in a thread mocking someone's lack of smarts, shouldn't we spell xenophobia correctly?

You're welcome!

[Bill USA]

55. fixed it. thanks. But actually, there is an argument to be made that spelling is pedantic obsession

... in comparison to comprehension of the meaning. I only mention this as the word under consideration is a very infrequently used word. Misspelling sum uv the moor offen yuzed wirds - could be said to be a more valid concern.


Thanks for letting me know though. - I am guilty of being sloppy and somewhat nonchalant when it comes to correct spelling as long as I get the point across.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

56. Correct spelling doesn't generally detract from comprehension, while spelling errors frequently do.

I don't see why it's pedantic in the negative connotations of that word (synonyms of which include positives as well: over-scrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky), to argue for the value of standardized spelling.

Especially now, when most people write while online and only need use a spell checker (built in to DU) or google a difficult word, there's really little reason not to use correct spelling. If meaning is important, why neglect such a simply implemented step ?

Misspellings and grammatical errors distract readers from the meaning of the text. Even now, when many claim not to care, the balance of good seems to rest on the side of following standard spelling and grammar conventions, because those who don't care or don't know the difference wont be distracted by correctly written text, while those who do will at the very least be at least momentarily, have their comprehension interrupted by the error.

And, again, I thought it particularly notable to find a misspelling in a post aimed at pointing out the stupidity of another person. Not that spelling errors do indicate a lack of intelligence, but they are often perceived to do so.

Anyway, I know there are arguments on both sides, but that's the jist of mine.

Also, my work in the fields of (admittedly small time) writing, teaching writing, and editing have tuned my mind to feel a need to act when errors are encountered. If you knew how many times I've interrupted my automatic response of pointing out a spelling error, you might have to give me a little credit for self control!

[Recursion]

21. W was stupid like a fox. Watch his debates with Ann Richards

He was very clear, well-spoken, and even thoughtful. His persona was an act. That or he was back on the sauce and it hit his brain really hard.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

22. I was a member of Mensa

... for one year as a young man. I never renewed my membership (paid annual dues) after that because I didn't care for the personalities of the people that I met at a couple of local meetings.

A high IQ doesn't translate to great wealth. Trust me!

I scored 148 on the California Test of Mental Maturity (top 1%) and 137 on the Cattell B (verbal test - top 7%).

After watching Trump closely for about a year, I suspect that Trump would score around 100 (average) on similar IQ tests. If he ever scored much higher than average, I'd be amazed. Same for Dumbya.

My one "slow" brother, who I think is still brighter than Trump, has done the best financially out of all my siblings. He's also always placed far greater value on money and possessions compared to the rest of us.

[NCTraveler]

25. You have aced the Mensa public image test with this one.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

27. LOL

I hope that I didn't come across as arrogant?

IQ came up, so I figured that I'd share. I didn't care for the arrogance that I saw at some local meetings.

Besides, that was a long time ago. I'm dumber now!

[kestrel91316]

29. You must have gone to some of the same meetings I did down here in Lost Angeles, ROFL

Couldn't stand most of the people at them. Constantly trying to impress people with their intellectual prowess.

Though I also did meet "the one that got away" there.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

33. Nah

The meetings were in the Dayton, OH area.

In hindsight, I should have guessed it would be that way. I somehow thought it would be more "instructional."

The proctor for the tests (at a local library) wore a jumpsuit and recommended the "Nudist SIG" to anyone who qualified and joined. I'm pretty sure he was naked under that jumpsuit.

At the first meeting I attended, the man who answered the door yelled back, "The pizza delivery boy is here!" despite me having no pizzas in hand. Lol. That didn't really bother me because it struck me as funny, although he didn't mean it as a joke.

[kestrel91316]

38. Dayton,eh? BTW I went to Beavercreek HS, class of'74.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

39. Northmont for me.

Graduated in '86.

EDIT: Northmont had a well-deserved reputation for being "stuck up" back then. It was like Centerville-lite.

[kestrel91316]

40. Don't know where that is (only lived there 1972-74).

We were there for the big excitement of the Xenia tornado Apr 3 1974.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

41. It's northwest of Dayton.

I wasn't that close to the tornado!

My father drove us through the devastation later. I'm pretty sure we weren't supposed to be there (since I don't remember other cars), but Dad slowly drove us through Xenia anyway! It was horrible.

My older siblings described the dark swirling clouds that rushed in suddenly that day (it was previously bright and sunny), but I was too young to remember that part.

[kestrel91316]

42. I was working alone, the late afternoon/early evening wrap-up shift

at the local dry cleaner's. I saw the dirty green cottonballs on the underside of the clouds that people said meant tornadoes. And then we got the tornado warning on the radio. I was ready to go hide underneath the pile of clothes in the intake bin. It hit just 3 miles to the west.

The kids from Xenia HS came to Beavercreek to finish out the year - they ran a second shift for them, 3-10PM.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

43. Wow

I know that some of the roads were completely stripped away down to dirt there. Incredible power.

I've had some co-workers from Xenia who described it too. They all felt fortunate to still be alive.

[NCTraveler]

35. Glad you took it as lighthearted. :)

We really do have a lot of highly intelligent people here. That doesn't always mean much(qualifier of a dim bulb) but the ones here also seem possess common sense as well. That combination is a truly beautiful thing.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

50. I too was in MENSA for a year, and, also did not bother to get more involved

due to feeling no kinship with the other members. Honestly, I never even went to a meeting, but somehow got the feeling I didn't fit in. I can't even recall what exactly the problem was, exactly.

Nevertheless, I generally don't object to intelligence! And I strongly believe that someone needs to be a hell of a lot smarter than Trump and GWB in a number of important ways to be a good president.

[NCTraveler]

24. Or he is brilliant at playing to his base. Nt

[Native]

26. And Bush was a lot better at strategery than Trump.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. GWB isn't so much stupid as intellectually lazy.

He seemed as dumb as a sack of hammers but that was probably because of a combination of sloth and alcohol. He probably started out with a normal, lukewarm IQ but never wanted to actually work very hard. Trump is probably similar in some respects - he's not actually stupid, but he has no interest in learning things. The difference is that while Bush never bothered to work very hard because he thought he could skate just like he did in school, Trump doesn't bother to learn things because he thinks he already knows more than anybody else. Trump is far more narcissistic than W. It's his narcissism, not stupidity, that causes him to do and say bizarre and startlingly inappropriate things. He lies and makes stuff up because he really thinks he can get away with it. W was a lazy, rather pathetic schlub who would have been lucky to find a job as the night manager of a 7-11 if he hadn't been born into the Bush family. Trump is more like a cross between Bernie Madoff and General Jack D. Ripper. He's much more dangerous than W ever was.

[uponit7771]

37. +1

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

53. I agree. Bush was cocky and smirky, just like Trump,

but not nearly as intensely narcissistic. I never could understand how people could not find Bush's frequent inappropriate smirk infuriating. However, Trump's smirk is ten times worse and his people love him ten times more than Bush's ever did.

That's the thing that's so depressing. The fact that so many people actually want this ignorant, rude, crude, misogynist pig to lead the nation. I knew there were Americans like that. I just didn't know there were still so many of them!

[Kablooie]

31. The really scary thing is...

if a major US party can run a madman as candidate for president that means it could happen anywhere.

If any nuclear power elects an insane person to lead, the world may get a Hollywood level dystopian future.

It seems increasingly unlikely that Trump will win but just the fact that he is taken seriously by enough people to make a difference is frightening.

I always thought there were enough checks and balances to insure this kind of thing couldn't happen but it's apparent I was wrong.

[rock]

32. Trump could not have won the candidacy without w* paving the way

I.e. w* lowered the bar to what it is currently.

[beachbum bob]

34. It's not an IQ issue....it's mental illness...

[uponit7771]

36. +1, tRump isn't very bright

[relayerbob]

52. It's not low intelligence it's willful ignorance

and that makes it far worse for me